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[Grieving Natashina]

Oh, I'll recruit them. I just refuse to get involved in their petty fight. It has been said that the Inquisitor doesn't have to choose sides in the Templar-Mage crap. That's the route I'll take.

I don't care if Mage Bob that I recruited hates Templar Ted. I refuse to take sides as the Inquisitor. I have one job and one job only: Uniting armies under my banner to save Thedas. Everything else seems kinda silly and rather small by comparison. By the way, by the end of DA2, I thought everyone was nuts. To quote Varric:

I'm just about sick of mages and templars.

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Fair enough. I will concede to you on the humorous rogues. Isabela, I feel, is the trump card for you rogues. She certainly made me laugh.
However, how in the world do you plan on closing the Veil without the help of either magic or Templars?

Lots of alcohol, backstabs, and Varric.

Dat chest hair.

I said it before, i will say it again.

If he whines at my inquistor over his actions in DAI i will shave it off with a rusty butter knife.

Modifié par Master Warder Z , 06 janvier 2014 - 12:39 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

But they DIDN'T make any demands. They didn't make any requests. Whatever they had was GIVEN to them, and they accepted. A parasite would imply that they TAKE, which we know tehy didn't so again your comparison is inaccurate or downright dishonest.The Qunari PROBABLY lived off of whatever few supplies they could salvage from the shipwreck, and through the donations of sympathizers. And given that probably neither of these wereplenty, the Qunari are lucky that tehy can live for over 30 days without food or water.

I am still not buying that it is possible to plonk a large, unprovisioned military force on someone's doorstep and not have it be a threat. It's in the nature of large, unprovisioned military forces to become unruly in these circumstances. Given they are unlikely to kill their officers, desert en masse and mingle with the locals, that leaves the more unpleasant version of unruly.

So the way I see it they don't need to make demands. They just need to sit around looking armed, dangerous, homeless and hungry.

[Master Warder Z_]

Starsyn wrote...

Oh, I'll recruit them. I just refuse to get involved in their petty fight. It has been said that the Inquisitor doesn't have to choose sides in the Templar-Mage crap. That's the route I'll take.

I don't care if Mage Bob that I recruited hates Templar Ted. I refuse to take sides as the Inquisitor. I have one job and one job only: Uniting armies under my banner to save Thedas. Everything else seems kinda silly and rather small by comparison. By the way, by the end of DA2, I thought everyone was nuts. To quote Varric:

I'm just about sick of mages and templars.

I am on the opposite spectrum personally i adore this plot device.

It finally allows me to do what i have been dying to do since DAO and that is completely neutralize the threat of Mages within White Thedas. Or at the very least remove as much of their cancer as i can from it.

But that said i do agree that the threat of the world ending does put a damper upon the mage's little rebellion but that doesn't mean i won't fight it until its on its last legs and then kick it into oblivion.

[The Elder King]

@Master Warder Z: we don't know in what ways we can influence the mage-templar war in DAI. I'd assume the least to not be disappointed.

[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

@Master Warder Z: we don't know in what ways we can influence the mage-templar war in DAI. I'd assume the least to not be disappointed.

True enough i suppose; That said i cannot help but being excited all the same for the next installment in DA.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Narrow Margin wrote...
I am still not buying that it is possible to plonk a large, unprovisioned military force on someone's doorstep and not have it be a threat. It's in the nature of large, unprovisioned military forces to become unruly in these circumstances. Given they are unlikely to kill their officers, desert en masse and mingle with the locals, that leaves the more unpleasant version of unruly.

So the way I see it they don't need to make demands. They just need to sit around looking armed, dangerous, homeless and hungry.

Actually a large part of the Qunari contingent DID desert. However the Qunari are generally extremely disciplined, and their warriors probably even more so, so the chances of the chain of command ever fully dissolving is low, and if the Arishok says do NOT loot the city, they wont.

People WERE intimidated by their presence, of that there is no doubt. The Qunari MIGHT (PURE specualtion) even have played up to that. But everything we have, makes it eprfectly clear that the Qunari did note ver, not even once, make a demand to Kirkwall to supply for them.

[Grieving Natashina]

@ Z

From a story perspective, the Templar-Mage war is neat, and it expands on why those tensions exist. I just hate what it's done to the playbase. Hopefully, with this catastrophic event looming, even the players can put those prejudices aside.

I feel the Templars have a cancer that needs to be routed out and I think that comes from within the Chantry. Mages will continue to be treated poorly unless something is done. Both sides had me irked by the ending of DA2, just the mages seemed slightly better than their Templar counterparts.

However, nothing will change unless the PC can get both sides to shut up long enough to save the world. I'm looking forward to what comes. It's gonna be a long wait, that's for sure.

Modifié par Starsyn, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:45 .

[The Elder King]

Master Warder Z wrote...

True enough i suppose; That said i cannot help but being excited all the same for the next installment in DA.

Agreed. So far I really liked what it was shown and stated. 

[Magdalena11]

hhh89 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

True enough i suppose; That said i cannot help but being excited all the same for the next installment in DA.

Agreed. So far I really liked what it was shown and stated. 

Hey, I think here's something we can agree about!  I know I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Starsyn wrote...

@ Z

From a story perspective, the Templar-Mage war is neat, and it expands on why those tensions exist. I just hate what it's done to the playbase. Hopefully, with this catastrophic event looming, even the players can put those prejudices aside.

I feel the Templars have a cancer that needs to be routed out and I think that comes from within the Chantry. Mages will continue to be treated poorly unless something is done. Both sides had me irked by the ending of DA2, just the mages seemed slightly better than their Templar counterparts.

However, nothing will change unless the PC can get both sides to shut up long enough to save the world. I'm looking forward to what comes. It's gonna be a long wait, that's for sure.

I am suspecting a moment such as the quest "Season Unending" in TES 5 Skyrim where the Dragon Born convinces both factions to work together against the world ending threat of the return of the dragons.

That said that quest also can never occur if the Dragon Born steps outside of impartiality and embraces a faction and leads them to victory, i am suspecting a similar play style for DAI but that is just base assumption at the moment, However when they spoke of DAI two years ago and spoke of taking certain things from hot games at the time including skyrim i couldn't help but wonder if that little device wouldn't apply to the plot.

Perhaps if the Inquistor doesn't throw behind one of the two banners, they will have to force the two to work together but if they did throw behind one of the banners, then by that point the conflict could possibly be over and they could work undivided regardless.

Eitherway i have high expectations for this plot lines conclusion.

[Grieving Natashina]

Never played Skyrim, so I'll have to trust you on that one.

I also have hopes that this petty Mage-Templar war is resolved by the end of DA:I. If anyone can get both sides to shut up for five minutes, it would be the Inquisitor.

[The Elder King]

Starsyn wrote...

Never played Skyrim, so I'll have to trust you on that one.

I also have hopes that this petty Mage-Templar war is resolved by the end of DA:I. If anyone can get both sides to shut up for five minutes, it would be the Inquisitor.

While I hope that the game will allow people to choose the path they want if we can side with them (mage path, templar path or compromise path) I don't think the war will end in Inquisition. 

[Neon Rising Winter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually a large part of the Qunari contingent DID desert. However the Qunari are generally extremely disciplined, and their warriors probably even more so, so the chances of the chain of command ever fully dissolving is low, and if the Arishok says do NOT loot the city, they wont.

People WERE intimidated by their presence, of that there is no doubt. The Qunari MIGHT (PURE specualtion) even have played up to that. But everything we have, makes it eprfectly clear that the Qunari did note ver, not even once, make a demand to Kirkwall to supply for them.

Exactly what I said. They didn't need to make demands, they had the implicit threat. Unless we're to believe the Arishok is so inexperienced and so incompetent then he is unaware of the threat their presence presents and thinks all this largesse is just him receiving his due.

And of course there's nothing to stop him finding a diplomatic channel and sending a quick letter home saying 'Minor hitch, stuck in Kirkwall, send expenses', but come on, do you believe that? Me, I reckon it was more a case of 'Well they won't complain if they know what's good for them, now that looks like a nice courtyard with a view, I wonder what the local restaurants are like?'

[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Never played Skyrim, so I'll have to trust you on that one.

I also have hopes that this petty Mage-Templar war is resolved by the end of DA:I. If anyone can get both sides to shut up for five minutes, it would be the Inquisitor.

While I hope that the game will allow people to choose the path they want if we can side with them (mage path, templar path or compromise path) I don't think the war will end in Inquisition. 

Well considering both sides have fairly present people within their ranks that shall we say were...enhumed.

The War would likely end mostly because that faction couldn't funcution anymore as an effective military, Namely for the defected circle mages their Grand Enchanter, Senior and First Enchanters their leader caste that are both the most powerful and most likely to present an effective threat.

With out their leadership i have a feeling most mages would abandon their conflict to avoid ending up with their heads on pikes, you would have those that resisted of course but those wouldn't be the majority in my eye.

And on the other side of the Coin, The Seekers and Templars.

The 13 Knight Commanders, Their Knight Captains and the Seeker Order would have to be dismantled for the Templars to be incapable of waging their war against the Mages.

So there are people on both sides that if removed they would be incapable of making war effectively.

That could be a path to peace one could agrue.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Narrow Margin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually a large part of the Qunari contingent DID desert. However the Qunari are generally extremely disciplined, and their warriors probably even more so, so the chances of the chain of command ever fully dissolving is low, and if the Arishok says do NOT loot the city, they wont.

People WERE intimidated by their presence, of that there is no doubt. The Qunari MIGHT (PURE specualtion) even have played up to that. But everything we have, makes it eprfectly clear that the Qunari did note ver, not even once, make a demand to Kirkwall to supply for them.

Exactly what I said. They didn't need to make demands, they had the implicit threat. Unless we're to believe the Arishok is so inexperienced and so incompetent then he is unaware of the threat their presence presents and thinks all this largesse is just him receiving his due.

And of course there's nothing to stop him finding a diplomatic channel and sending a quick letter home saying 'Minor hitch, stuck in Kirkwall, send expenses', but come on, do you believe that? Me, I reckon it was more a case of 'Well they won't complain if they know what's good for them, now that looks like a nice courtyard with a view, I wonder what the local restaurants are like?'

Do you not understand the difference between a percived threat and a recieved threat? The ACTUAL question you should ask yourself, is wether or not the Qunari were EVER going to act upon it. So far, given their absolute apathy towards the whole ordeal, there are much more evidence towards the Qunari never wanting to act upon it, than they actually would have. Dumar says that he gave them the compound to contain the Qunari and appease them, but that the QUnari never made any demands or request, and that they have actually been completely civil during any parley between the two factions.

And do you even realize just how far away Kirkwall is from Par Vollen? And HOW would that Qunari travel? By land? They don't have any boats anymore, so it must be by land. How would he reach Par Vollen? Maybe he even DID send out such a messenger. Maybe the messenger got intercepted. Maybe the homeland didn't feel it necessary to supply additional funds. There are a whole truckload of unknowns that you simply presume plays out in favor YOUR idea.

[The Elder King]

@Master Warder Z: well, killing the leaders of the two factions might lead to peace, though I don't think it's sure. And it's not that easy to kill all the leaders in one spot.
Though my reason to believe that Bioware will not end the war is based on the fact that this was will need to have a single outcome, since they're sticking with the save imports. They might not be ready to finish it (considering the obvious backlash of a part of their fanbase) or maybe they don't know yet how they want to finish it. They might want to continue on this path, when mages and templars are at war.
It's not like they don't have plots that would work well with the war ongoing. A qunari invasion plot would work quite nicely.

[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

@Master Warder Z: well, killing the leaders of the two factions might lead to peace, though I don't think it's sure. And it's not that easy to kill all the leaders in one spot.
Though my reason to believe that Bioware will not end the war is based on the fact that this was will need to have a single outcome, since they're sticking with the save imports. They might not be ready to finish it (considering the obvious backlash of a part of their fanbase) or maybe they don't know yet how they want to finish it. They might want to continue on this path, when mages and templars are at war.
It's not like they don't have plots that would work well with the war ongoing. A qunari invasion plot would work quite nicely.

I suppose that is true but my main point of thinking is; If you remove the leadership from an Army it disolves in on it self. That has happened through out history, you have a discipled military force that once cut off from command, basically turns into local Maruaders and not a threat of national stability, But that said i have a feeling that the war will reach it's conclusion in DAI that's just my feelings on it though.

You might have it limping into the next installment but i have a feeling that whatever faction that was aided by the Inquistor would be winning it by this point.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Z

Um, depends upon the Army. Many armies have chains of command in order to prevent dissolution, including in the US. I don't think killing the leaders of each faction is going to do a damned bit of good. It'll just create a power vacuum, one that would be quickly filled by the next in command.

There was one army in recent history that was dumb enough not to do that and it did fall apart. However, the majority of the armies in our world have chains of command. I don't see why that would be different in Thedas, especially since we've seen some of the chain of command at work (the Divine, Grand Cleric, Knight-Lieutenant, Knight-Commander, ect ect.)

Modifié par Starsyn, 06 janvier 2014 - 01:38 .

[The Elder King]

@Master Warder Z: but the Inquisition can't probably spare soldiers to help one side wins over the other (and consider that mages and templars aren't likely the only faction present in DAI). Unless the plot revolves around killing the mage of templars leaders for gainging the alliance (which I doubt) an alliance wouldn't mean a secure victory.
But mine is just a feeling as well. We don't known practically nothing about the plots of the game. We'll have to wait and see.

[Hellion Rex]

Starsyn wrote...

@Z

Um, depends upon the Army. Many armies have chains of command in order to prevent dissolution, including in the US. I don't think killing the leaders of each faction is going to do a damned bit of good. It'll just create a power vacuum, one that would be quickly filled by the next in command.

There was one army in recent history that was dumb enough not to do that and it did fall apart. However, the majority of the armies in our world have chains of command. I don't see why that would be different in Thedas, especially since we've seen some of the chain of command at work (the Divine, Grand Cleric, Knight-Lieutenant, Knight-Commander, ect ect.)

Indeed, although I wonder where the Knight-Divine and Knight Vigilant fit in. I have heard both titles describe the top tier of the Templar Order, although we have not actually encountered either.

As for the mages, I guarantee that if Fiona somehow goes down, Adrian will step up to take her place.

[Neon Rising Winter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Do you not understand the difference between a percived threat and a recieved threat? The ACTUAL question you should ask yourself, is wether or not the Qunari were EVER going to act upon it. So far, given their absolute apathy towards the whole ordeal, there are much more evidence towards the Qunari never wanting to act upon it, than they actually would have. Dumar says that he gave them the compound to contain the Qunari and appease them, but that the QUnari never made any demands or request, and that they have actually been completely civil during any parley between the two factions.

And do you even realize just how far away Kirkwall is from Par Vollen? And HOW would that Qunari travel? By land? They don't have any boats anymore, so it must be by land. How would he reach Par Vollen? Maybe he even DID send out such a messenger. Maybe the messenger got intercepted. Maybe the homeland didn't feel it necessary to supply additional funds. There are a whole truckload of unknowns that you simply presume plays out in favor YOUR idea.

I disagree the question is whether the qunari would act on a threat. Wholly irrelevant I'd say. The question is whether they conducted their transactions with the knowledge that a threat was perceived and using the perception of that threat to their advantage. If someone with a history of stabbing people starts waving a knife it doesn't matter if this particular time they don't plan to harm a hair on anyone's head, any interactions from that point on occur in the context of their previous behaviour. They don't get to blink their sad puppy dog eyes and claim they didn't make any threats this time, and how could anyone possibly impune their character by suggesting it.

The second part I agree is more whimsical and not terribly important. Although I now have a vague curiosity as to whether there are diplomatic channels available. I imagine you're right that if there were he wouldn't have been receiving expenses, probably more a few colourfully worded messages from his line manager.

[The Elder King]

@eluvianix: I think Rhys would've have something to object.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: I think Rhys would've have something to object.

In a duel, I'd put my money on him.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: I think Rhys would've have something to object.

In a duel, I'd put my money on him.

Agreed.