403 réponses à ce sujet

[Karach_Blade]

Now all we need are volunteers to become Ash Wraiths - ah, I mean....the Ascended Faith Militant

[Adanu]

DPSSOC wrote...

Adanu wrote...
Anders did what was necessary, nothing more, nothing less.

No he didn't.  Violence is never necessary, it may be expedient, but not necessary.

Violence is necessary for self defense, no matter what 'Gandhi' might have said.

Adanu wrote...
The Chantry is an accomplice to mage slavery in the form of the circle, and deserves to be removed from Thedas. I'm amazed someone else didn't do it sooner.

You've just declared every government that practices institutionalized incarceration of other people as accomplices to slavery, for the record that's most of them.

I did at that.

Adanu wrote...
I also laugh at people calling ANders a terrorist. It was never about terror for him, so why the hell are you people using that word? Oh wait, because you're a bunch of ignorant fools who use the latest poltical buzzwords as gospel.

It was entirely about the terror for Anders.  The bomb was intended to set of Meredith so she'd lash out at the Mages.  This would then put mages in fear (or terror) for their lives, and they lash back.  This spreads out as violence does with the other Circles cracking down harder on mages out of fear.  Mages respond.

Anders goal was always fear, the propagation of fear and violence until war was the only option, and again he had no intention of sticking around for it.

It was about retribution and pushing the Templars to show their true colors. Terror was not a factor.

[PorcelynDoll]

My favourite part is when he blows up the chantry. I cheered and giggled the first time I saw it. He will always be my hero!

[KainD]

PorcelynDoll wrote...

My favourite part is when he blows up the chantry. I cheered and giggled the first time I saw it. He will always be my hero!

It's a shame player never gets a choice to actually say something like: ''Anders! Nice! Good job!''

[duckley]

Oh great... a whiney moody God....

[HiroVoid]

Karach_Blade wrote...

Now all we need are volunteers to become Ash Wraiths - ah, I mean....the Ascended Faith Militant

Don't you mean volunteers to become harvesters?

[Vit246]

Delete.

Modifié par Vit246, 02 janvier 2014 - 06:42 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Adanu wrote...
It was about retribution and pushing the Templars to show their true colors. Terror was not a factor.

So he used it to show that Templars are not to be trusted by the general populace by painting them as the mass murderers of a Circle? Sounds like he was trying to scare the populace from supporting them to me. In which case, yes terror was a factor.

He was also showing through an act of force that the mages he claims to be representing will no longer tolerate the injustice thrown upon them. As in, he was scaring the Templars by showing the mages have had enough and will fight back. Again, he scared and thus used terror as a factor in his attack.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 02 janvier 2014 - 06:49 .

[Nefla]

What Anders showed wasn't "Templars show their true colors" to the general populace it was "mages showed their true colors, they are a danger to us all and should be wiped out."

[HiroVoid]

Also, I would doubt that most people would care about the templars annulling the Kirkwall circle especially if it had a reputation for blood mages and apostates. The general populace would be more concerned about a mage bombing their general center of religion/belief building which is a building they might go to every other week near their own village. If people already have a bad or negative view of mages because of the chantry or otherwise, the news of one just being able to blow up a building possibly full of people doesn't help the mages' image.

[Vit246]

I would say it was more about showing how the Templars ignore the immediate guilty party in front of them and instead attack the faction that had nothing to do with an apostate outsider.

And I would remind you that the Kirkwall Chantry was destroyed at nighttime, the time when the Kirkwall Chantry was closed to the general populace.

And forgive for saying so, but I just have the feeling that the only people who died inside were the ones we saw: Elthina and some Templars.

Modifié par Vit246, 02 janvier 2014 - 06:57 .

[HiroVoid]

Vit246 wrote...

I would say it was more about showing how the Templars ignore the immediate guilty party in front of them and instead attack the faction that had nothing to do with an apostate outsider.

True, but that's not how the general population would generally percieve an event unless the news was spread by a pro-mage source which is unlikely.  If that was the plan, it was an awful one.

[KainD]

HiroVoid wrote...
True, but that's not how the general population would generally percieve an event unless the news was spread by a pro-mage source which is unlikely.  If that was the plan, it was an awful one.

How does general population matter? Who cares what they think? 
Anders wanted one thing, for circles to exist no more, regardless of the consequences - mission accomplished. 

[HiroVoid]

KainD wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
True, but that's not how the general population would generally percieve an event unless the news was spread by a pro-mage source which is unlikely.  If that was the plan, it was an awful one.

How does general population matter? Who cares what they think? 
Anders wanted one thing, for circles to exist no more, regardless of the consequences - mission accomplished. 

And after?  Mages get wiped out because nobody wants to support them (It's obviously not going to happen though for gameplay and narrative reasons)?  Mages have no sympathers or people to fight for them because people are afraid of them more than ever?  Anders didn't think any of that through.  That's why I mention that even if the mage/templar war needed to happen, Anders started it in the dumbest way possible.

[Vit246]

delete.

Modifié par Vit246, 02 janvier 2014 - 07:01 .

[KainD]

HiroVoid wrote...
And after?  Mages get wiped out because nobody wants to support them (It's obviously not going to happen though for gameplay and narrative reasons)?  Mages have no sympathers or people to fight for them because people are afraid of them more than ever?  Anders didn't think any of that through.  That's why I mention that even if the mage/templar war needed to happen, Anders started it in the dumbest way possible.

After, the mages that are strong, smart , willing to fight, and willing to put the common morals aside, will survive.
And the weak ones and the ones that don't want to fight will die. 
Anders removed the chance of compromise and now the ones that weren't sure whether to fight or not will have to make a choice - fight or die. 

[Vit246]

HiroVoid wrote...

KainD wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
True, but that's not how the general population would generally percieve an event unless the news was spread by a pro-mage source which is unlikely.  If that was the plan, it was an awful one.

How does general population matter? Who cares what they think? 
Anders wanted one thing, for circles to exist no more, regardless of the consequences - mission accomplished. 

And after?  Mages get wiped out because nobody wants to support them (It's obviously not going to happen though for gameplay and narrative reasons)?  Mages have no sympathers or people to fight for them because people are afraid of them more than ever?  Anders didn't think any of that through.  That's why I mention that even if the mage/templar war needed to happen, Anders started it in the dumbest way possible.

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? Sure it would be great to have, but you still have to compete againstthe propaganda and religious dogma and then that one bad apple from the tree which people will claim the whole the tree is corrupted.

Besides I think Kirkwall will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, summon demons, whatever. For centuries. And then there are some who realize not all mages are the same. And Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

And it was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

Modifié par Vit246, 02 janvier 2014 - 07:36 .

[The Hierophant]

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

[KainD]

The Hierophant wrote...
Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Harvester Orsino: Bleaargh!

Modifié par KainD, 02 janvier 2014 - 07:44 .

[Augustei]

Since everybody including the mages of the circle view him as nothing more than a psychopath terrorist I doubt that.

[HiroVoid]

Adanu wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

KainD wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
True, but that's not how the general population would generally percieve an event unless the news was spread by a pro-mage source which is unlikely.  If that was the plan, it was an awful one.

How does general population matter? Who cares what they think? 
Anders wanted one thing, for circles to exist no more, regardless of the consequences - mission accomplished. 

And after?  Mages get wiped out because nobody wants to support them (It's obviously not going to happen though for gameplay and narrative reasons)?  Mages have no sympathers or people to fight for them because people are afraid of them more than ever?  Anders didn't think any of that through.  That's why I mention that even if the mage/templar war needed to happen, Anders started it in the dumbest way possible.

Nobody? Tell that to Alistair and the people in the mage resistance.

Your bias does not blanket all of thedas, just like my inclination towards mages doesn't. People like you are the problem with decent intellectual debates.

Oh.  Mages have plenty of options.  Nobles and nations that might want to have mage power at their command.  The mage resistance in Kirkwall though seems like its more a side-effect of the templars there specifically which was stated to be an extreme state of the templars.  Again, we can discuss this all we want as far as logistics and others go, but it doesn't change that the narrative demands that the conflict be to a point that the mages and templars neither have a huge advantage.  Its also the same thing that states that the mages can't return to a way that makes it so a mage traveling around isn't unusual.

[KainD]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Since everybody including the mages of the circle view him as nothing more than a psychopath terrorist I doubt that.

Seeing as how many leggit supporters he has on these ver forums, I doubt that. 

[Vit246]

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

[The Hierophant]

KainD wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Harvester Orsino: Bleaargh!

Sten:No.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well pretty much if mages will win anders will be hero with excuse "necessary evil" or "i did what i had to" if not he will be villain who dear attack other heroes pretty much in that same way templars are heroes with that same
excuse.