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[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vit246 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

Which is rediculous. There is always room for compromise. Though credit where credit is due, the mages do have a stronger position on deciding the terms of said compromise now that they are out of the Chantry's clutches. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

Which is rediculous. There is always room for compromise. Though credit where credit is due, the mages do have a stronger position on deciding the terms of said compromise now that they are out of the Chantry's clutches. 

Yes compriomise lets see fanatical insane woman with army of fanatical knight templars have complete control and organisation that should look over knight templars is so biased that don't care what knight templars do great room for compromise for mages...

To be honest whatever you think that anders action was right or not morally he changed mages situation from hopeless passivity to still bad but better because they have at least some chances hell even divine started notice mages after what happened in kirkwall when earlier she didn't give a crap about mages condition unless they needed hunt them down. 

[HiroVoid]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

Which is rediculous. There is always room for compromise. Though credit where credit is due, the mages do have a stronger position on deciding the terms of said compromise now that they are out of the Chantry's clutches. 

Yes compriomise lets see fanatical insane woman with army of fanatical knight templars have complete control and organisation that should look over knight templars is so biased that don't care what knight templars do great room for compromise for mages...

To be honest whatever you think that anders action was right or not morally he changed mages situation from hopeless passivity to still bad but better because they have at least some chances hell even divine started notice mages after what happened in kirkwall when earlier she didn't give a crap about mages condition unless they needed hunt them down. 

Is it confirmed that this only started after Anders' actions or if she had always had a fairly pro-mage attitude to a point?

[TheKomandorShepard]

HiroVoid wrote...



Is it confirmed that this only started after Anders' actions or if she had always had a fairly pro-mage attitude to a point?

Well is isn't confirmed because world of god don't say nothing about her and well about conflict but pretty much she was intrested more in hunting mages and well leliana clearly presented divine opinion about libertarians and well that she didn't reacted before show pretty much.Simple it is too suspicious that she started notice mages after kirkwall... in my opinion she is playing in something and her shady past don't help.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 02 janvier 2014 - 08:38 .

[HiroVoid]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...



Is it confirmed that this only started after Anders' actions or if she had always had a fairly pro-mage attitude to a point?

Well is isn't confirmed because world of god don't say nothing about her and well about conflict but pretty much she was intrested more in hunting mages and well leliana clearly presented divine opinion about libertarians and well that she didn't reacted before show pretty much.Simple it is too suspicious that she started notice mages after kirkwall...

Fair enough.  We really don't have enough info on her.  Maybe we'll know more after the new novel or Dragon Age: Inquisition releases.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

Which is rediculous. There is always room for compromise. Though credit where credit is due, the mages do have a stronger position on deciding the terms of said compromise now that they are out of the Chantry's clutches. 

Yes compriomise lets see fanatical insane woman with army of fanatical knight templars have complete control and organisation that should look over knight templars is so biased that don't care what knight templars do great room for compromise for mages...

To be honest whatever you think that anders action was right or not morally he changed mages situation from hopeless passivity to still bad but better because they have at least some chances hell even divine started notice mages after what happened in kirkwall when earlier she didn't give a crap about mages condition unless they needed hunt them down. 

I never said compromise with Meredith was possible. I was talking more in Inquisition that the mages have more of a presence than is they were still in the Circles, and thus have more wiggle room for eventual compromise.

[andy6915]

I hope Andraste wasn't as whiny and hypocritical as Anders is.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I never said compromise with Meredith was possible. I was talking more in Inquisition that the mages have more of a presence than is they were still in the Circles, and thus have more wiggle room for eventual compromise.

To be honest compromise don't always mean better or good pretty much mages felt that before in my opinion worst thing they can do is compromise with chantry or templars it simple repeat the mistake of the past and lead to begin where they ended last time.But still in my pt i will chop them because they are obstacle in my plans. 

[HK-90210]

Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Yeah......no......

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 02 janvier 2014 - 08:58 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

CastonFolarus wrote...

Yeah, no.

Caston if you tried put picture [img ] link [/img ]

[Augustei]

KainD wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Since everybody including the mages of the circle view him as nothing more than a psychopath terrorist I doubt that.

Seeing as how many leggit supporters he has on these ver forums, I doubt that. 

Because forums=game right? your logic is beautiful

[Adanu]

Vit246 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

The majority of the public have already been afraid for centuries. Mages are hopelessly demonized and the public is hopelessly indoctrinated by the Chantry. Why bother? 

Besides I think this will hardly change anyone's minds about anything. Mages are already said to spontaneously become abominations, kill people, destroy places, whatever. Whats so special about the incident in Kirkwall?

It was about delivering the message to all the other Circles that the Templars do not care about innocence and guilt and will use any excuse to justify an extermination. Thus the Circles have absolutely nothing to lose by conducting a full-scale rebellion.

This seems inconsistent with what Anders told Orsino.

Orsino: Why? Why would you do such a thing?

Anders: I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise.

Almost forgot about that. I'm still trying to rationalize DA2. The same DA2 that was rushed. 

Sigh. I guess he was trying to destroy the illusion and false hope of compromise and then the rest of everything happens and then the Circles get the message that compromise is hopeless if these are the kind of people they must deal with. Uncompromising. Inflexible. 

Pretty much it exactly. Anders did what he had to do.

[Veruin]

Adanu wrote...
Way to miss the point of what ANders did, but then, you represent the common intellect of forum goers here.

Also, David can call it not-slavery all he likes, he's wrong. The circle is a system of slavery just gilded slavery. Pretty slavery is still slavery, no matter how he tries to spin it.

You represent the common know it all idiot who thinks he's above everyone.

It's not slavery.  They are not forced to do anything other than get an education and serve in the military in times of crisis.  They aren't even forced to prepare their own meal.  But, I wouldn't expect you to notice that.  After all, your higher intellect must see things we cannot. <_<

[Lulupab]

XxDeonxX wrote...

KainD wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Since everybody including the mages of the circle view him as nothing more than a psychopath terrorist I doubt that.

Seeing as how many leggit supporters he has on these ver forums, I doubt that. 

Because forums=game right? your logic is beautiful

Bioware will not abandon a character, they never did it. According to legit stactis 80% of players saved Ashely yet Kaidan is not ignored nonetheless.

I am more than certain Anders will get a big role in Inquisiton in playthroughs where he is alive. There is even a slight chance he mighrt become a companion. I doubt it but nothing is certain yet he could become a replacement character for another character that takes his place if Anders is dead.

[Adanu]

Veruin wrote...

Adanu wrote...
Way to miss the point of what ANders did, but then, you represent the common intellect of forum goers here.

Also, David can call it not-slavery all he likes, he's wrong. The circle is a system of slavery just gilded slavery. Pretty slavery is still slavery, no matter how he tries to spin it.

You represent the common know it all idiot who thinks he's above everyone.

It's not slavery.  They are not forced to do anything other than get an education and serve in the military in times of crisis.  They aren't even forced to prepare their own meal.  But, I wouldn't expect you to notice that.  After all, your higher intellect must see things we cannot. <_<

This is what we call 'gilded'. They are forced to stay in a tower, constantly watched, and cannot leave without permission. If they do, they are hunted with their own blood and killed if they resist. They are forced to participate in blights more or less, and do not have any hope of  open romance. They are forced into the harrowing, and forced to become a tranquil if they refuse, and killed instantly if they fail. No research is being done to improve either of these options, and when someone tries it's considered a mistake by the head Templar, who doesn't want the mages to feel hope.

So, tell me again how this is not gilded slavery?

[rasloveszev]

Rassler wrote...

Lol even the names are similar. Anders did the exact opposite of what Andraste did but in the same way. Opposing forces none seem to think possible to defeat and dying as martyr in the end. Although if he is alive in a playthrough we'll have to see what happens in DA:I but he will most likey die as he is probably the most wanted person for starting the mage rebelion.

As a speculation, If mages win the war they will hail Anders as a hero and ditch Andraste, who needs her when there is Anders and fellow Anderstians. 

I really do hope that happens. XD 

[Lulupab]

rasloveszev wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Lol even the names are similar. Anders did the exact opposite of what Andraste did but in the same way. Opposing forces none seem to think possible to defeat and dying as martyr in the end. Although if he is alive in a playthrough we'll have to see what happens in DA:I but he will most likey die as he is probably the most wanted person for starting the mage rebelion.

As a speculation, If mages win the war they will hail Anders as a hero and ditch Andraste, who needs her when there is Anders and fellow Anderstians. 

I really do hope that happens. XD 

I hope this happens and Anders becomes immortal with help of Justice. A living breathing god! (pun intended)

On a serious note chances of Anders becoming a symbol of defiance against Templars or simply a martyr is quite high.

Modifié par Rassler, 02 janvier 2014 - 04:45 .

[rasloveszev]

Veruin wrote...

Adanu wrote...
Way to miss the point of what ANders did, but then, you represent the common intellect of forum goers here.

Also, David can call it not-slavery all he likes, he's wrong. The circle is a system of slavery just gilded slavery. Pretty slavery is still slavery, no matter how he tries to spin it.

You represent the common know it all idiot who thinks he's above everyone.

It's not slavery.  They are not forced to do anything other than get an education and serve in the military in times of crisis.  They aren't even forced to prepare their own meal.  But, I wouldn't expect you to notice that.  After all, your higher intellect must see things we cannot. <_<

Correct.
They're prisioners. 

[Magdalena11]

Veruin wrote...

Adanu wrote...
Way to miss the point of what ANders did, but then, you represent the common intellect of forum goers here.

Also, David can call it not-slavery all he likes, he's wrong. The circle is a system of slavery just gilded slavery. Pretty slavery is still slavery, no matter how he tries to spin it.

You represent the common know it all idiot who thinks he's above everyone.

It's not slavery.  They are not forced to do anything other than get an education and serve in the military in times of crisis.  They aren't even forced to prepare their own meal.  But, I wouldn't expect you to notice that.  After all, your higher intellect must see things we cannot. <_<

Look in the mirror and say that.  Whether you agree with a point or not, don't dismiss it or the person putting it forward.  I don't agree with a lot of the opinions I see but would not dream of calling someone a know-it-all idiot unless they made the statement you just did.

You are entitled to your opinion even if I don't agree with it.  What you are not entitled to do is say that someone else's opinion isn't valid or that someone is an idiot because they don't see things the same way you do.

[ladyshamen]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that it's not just Anders, it's Justice. Look at the difference between Anders in DA:A and DA2. I'm not sure he was sane by the end of DA2. Just a thought.

[Jaison1986]

ladyshamen wrote...

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that it's not just Anders, it's Justice. Look at the difference between Anders in DA:A and DA2. I'm not sure he was sane by the end of DA2. Just a thought.

Wasn't it a common trope that nobody in Kirkwall was sane anymore?

[Veruin]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Look in the mirror and say that.  Whether you agree with a point or not, don't dismiss it or the person putting it forward.  I don't agree with a lot of the opinions I see but would not dream of calling someone a know-it-all idiot unless they made the statement you just did.

You are entitled to your opinion even if I don't agree with it.  What you are not entitled to do is say that someone else's opinion isn't valid or that someone is an idiot because they don't see things the same way you do.

When said poster says things such as...

Adanu wrote...
I also laugh at people calling ANders a terrorist. It was never about terror for him, so why the hell are you people using that word? Oh wait, because you're a bunch of ignorant fools who use the latest poltical buzzwords as gospel.

Adanu wrote...

Way to miss the point of what ANders did, but then, you represent the common intellect of forum goers here.

Then yes, I will call them on it.  Get off your high horse.

Adanu wrote...
This is what we call 'gilded'. They are forced to stay in a tower, constantly watched, and cannot leave without permission. If they do, they are hunted with their own blood and killed if they resist. 

Forced to stay seperate from the normal people?  You know, the one's who won't turn into a killing machine because they had a bad dream?  Considering Uldred was even able to converse with his fellow mages and get his little revolt off the ground, either the templars don't watch them enough, or they don't watch them as much as you think they do.  They used to be able to leave the tower on exercise missions and to actually get sunlight.  But, Anders ruined that for everyone by jumping in the lake and escaping.

Can't have potential abominations running around, can we?  Unlike what gameplay shows, abominations are supposed to be really powerful and not something a common city guard can handle.

Adanu wrote...

They are forced to participate in blights more or less, 

Guess what?  So are the normal people.  Only the normal people are also subjected to the whims of their lord.

Adanu wrote...

and do not have any hope of  open romance.

While romance isn't a bad thing, it will lead to procreation, then we have population problem.  Those towers don't hold a lot of mages in the first place.

Adanu wrote...

They are forced into the harrowing, and forced to become a tranquil if they refuse, and killed instantly if they fail.

Yes, they are forced into the closest thing they have as assurance that a mage won't fall prey to a demon.  If they fail, then they became possessed.   You want an abomination to run around?  I also wouldn't take mouse's words' of "They kill you if you take too long" considering he turned out to be a pride demon....  It sounds like he wants you to make hasty decisions.

Adanu wrote...
No research is being done to improve either of these options, and when someone tries it's considered a mistakeby the head Templar, who doesn't want the mages to feel hope.

Could it be because there IS no way to improve it?  Tevinter has been reliant on magic for centuries and they still have not found anything against possession.  Please do, provide the source for this.  Even if it's true, it's another double standard as you have no problem labeling all the templars because of one. But, maker forbid we do the same to mages.

Adanu wrote...

So, tell me again how this is not gilded slavery?

Because they aren't forced to do anything that the normal people don't do either.  Both are at the countries beck and call for wars.  At worst, they're prisoners living in a locked hotel room of luxury.

Modifié par Veruin, 02 janvier 2014 - 05:47 .

[rasloveszev]

Jaison1986 wrote...

ladyshamen wrote...

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that it's not just Anders, it's Justice. Look at the difference between Anders in DA:A and DA2. I'm not sure he was sane by the end of DA2. Just a thought.

Wasn't it a common trope that nobody in Kirkwall was sane anymore?

Bethany, Hawke, Sebastian, Isabela, Varric, Aveline, Carver, Grand Cleric, or Merill weren't sane? Alain was sane too.

[AresKeith]

KainD wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Since everybody including the mages of the circle view him as nothing more than a psychopath terrorist I doubt that.

Seeing as how many leggit supporters he has on these ver forums, I doubt that. 

implying people on these forums are in Thedas or mages