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Sheps Last Moments: Life Flashing Before His/Her Eyes...


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#1
Reigned

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I'm a firm believer of leaning towards the Indoctrination Theory, but thinking about it the other day after completing the trilogy for the second time, I got to thinking. I don't know if this has been brought up before, or if there are others out there who agree, but just something to consider, and i'll try to be concise:

After Shepard get's hammered by Harbinger's 'Red Beam of Death', I'd like to think that since we don't fully see the beam strike our character, that in this moment Shepard has a 'Life Review'/Near Death Experience (For info on details:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_review). A full spectrum moment of going over things in which brought him/her to that moment and visioning things in which she/he feels comfortable to have taken place. Now of course, people will then rebuttal, "What about everything that happens with the Crucible and the decision making process? It didn't take place for it to be a part of her 'life review', so how do you explain that?" However, it surely is a part of it.

When the Crucible plans are first discovered, no one has any damn idea of what the thing is supposed to do. As time goes on, it begins to be suggested to Shepard that it's a weapon to destory the reapers. Later, The Illusive Man, begins to suggest in the story the possiblity of controlling them. Lastly, the Prothean VI at TIM's base, explains the true nature of what the Catalyst is supposed to do, of how it's energy is synched with the relays, and expended throughout the galaxy. With this amount of suggestion pre Harbinger blast, is it possible, the last few moments you play through are a manisfestation of her conscience before dying?

It is common before dying, people think of their good past and even sometimes maintain positive thoughts. As explained in the Life Review article, these moments don't last long for the doer as it happens instantaneous, however, the experience can last as long as a minute or more. Consider that Shepard's positive thoughts are just the completing her/his mission, making it to the Crucible. If so, than of course during this experience Shepard will experience just that. Now, going back to the suggestions in which have been put to Shepard throughout the game as to what the Crucible  can possibly do, when she makes it to the Crucible she will have those choices indeed. "Holo-Child" (yuck), being an earlier more comfortable manisfestation that has lasted throughout the entire playing experience, is there this time to comfort her in the decision making process. Now of course destroy and control would obviously be part of the decision making process as it was outlined through the ME3 story, but  if we're considering  Shepard is dying and trying to confort her mind with details he/she already knows, how do we get Synthesis if it was never mentioned earlier?

I paid particularly too much attention to the syntax of the conversation with the stupid holo-kid. He first mentions the destroy option, informing you all synthetic life  will perish. If you're a, EDI, Legion and Geth sympathiser, and also a Reaper hater, this is definitely a problem. Right after it mentions the control option, but if you're that Reaper hater and stuck with the true mission ever since ME1, you know the mission was always destroy the Reapers. Why is this particular syntax relevant? This would be how the third choice is then created in Shepards mind/dream/near death experience. Synthesis, or as I like to call it, " the ultimate technilogical truce", because the Reapers wont destroy what is also a part of them. This would in fact give comfort to Shepard knowing his friends, both organic and synthetic will be okay.

Now, this begs the question, if this is nothing more than a sequence in Shepards mind, to comfort himself/herself through death, then WTH is actually happening in reality?

Well after Bioware talking loads about ME4, a successor, having nothing to do with Shepard, how could they pull it off if Shepards decision is one that decides the total fate of the galaxy? Well, my best guess is this. If it is in fact a dream and if Major Coats is right and no one made it to this 'beam', then the Crucible never is activated, ever. So now, you'd probably ask, well how does the universe continue if the Crucible doesn't activate at all to do anything to the Reapers? This is where the Galaxy at War and Effective Military Strength REALLY comes into play. Knowing how Bioware loves to take variables to decide the next games events, this is my theory, ME4's intro is going to be one of two things:

1. IF your EMS is high or maxed out and your Galatic Readiness is positive, it will show the Crucible not do not a darn thing. Instead, the union of your maxed our military will decimate the Reapers, it wont be pretty, it wont be happy go lucky, but the galaxy will win. This makes sense, because why would the efforts of whatever you did throughout the game matter? To set the primise for the next game. The fate of the Galaxy isn't Red,Blue or Green, you are creating it through whatever actions you perform. Whether you save the Krogan or ****** of the Salarians, save the Geth or letting the Quarians die, etc. whatever you decide is the variable the next game will utilize.

2. IF your EMS is low and your Galatic Readiness is crap, again the Cruicible will be as worthless as ****** on a fish, but this time the Reapers will get the best of the Galatic Alliance and whatever Alliance that was the lowest in you EMS will be completely decimated in the next game (So if you help the Krogans and ditch the Salarians, whoever choses not to ally or already dead, will be eradicated)

To me, this didn't sound too crappy if it became the case, in my honest opinion it would only make sense. Again, not too sure if anyone ever's thought of this before, but after my second playthrough of the entire series, it begins to make me think a little like this. Sorry I wasn't too concise. Feel free to add or correct. :)

#2
Michotic

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EC kind of makes this a bit more difficult for me to swallow. While it might be interesting, I don't think it's such a good idea that no matter what, you lose. It makes the trilogy pointless, other than determine what kind of starting position the new protagonist is in. That would make me upset.

#3
rapscallioness

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Tbh, my first original ending pt--non IT or BSN influenced--I really thought Shep was indeed having a near death experience. I really did.

And it was confusing w/Coats saying no one made it, but there was Shep and Anderson apparently.

I...I..don't know, Man. I just don't know. I don't know wtf happened.

#4
Reigned

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Well you don't lose, as I stated, regardless of the EMS and GR, your union will beat the reapers. The height of the EMS and GR just determines which races in the union are present in the ME4 universe.

#5
His Name was HYR!!

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Reigned wrote...

I'm a firm believer of leaning towards the Indoctrination Theory,



Is it that, or do you lean towards firmly supporting it??

#6
Michotic

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The game continues, but Shepard loses, and that's the part I take issue with. The player spends a trilogy developing the character to watch him/her die right at the end, then we get thrown into the role of a brand new protagonist? I don't really care for that.

#7
Reigned

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Not enough clarity with that statement. Should have consulted Bioware before submitting that part. After reviewing a lot of the fanbases thoughts and videos, I know there's a heap of speculation to be had for it to be true. It's just a lot better than what we have to go on, makes me feel more comfortable.

#8
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Michotic wrote...

The player spends a trilogy developing the character to watch him/her die right at the end, then we get thrown into the role of a brand new protagonist? I don't really care for that.


Yeah I see what you mean and it does suck, but knowing the sacrifice in which Shepard unites the entire galaxy to defeat the greatest threat known to man, I am okay with that. Just like I had to be okay with Spike Spiegel sacrificing his life in Cowboy Bebop, to know he lived a full one.

#9
Michotic

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If it were a suitably epic death, maybe. Getting lasered just doesn't seem to cut it. Either way, I'd still want that to be the end of the story. I don't want to have to acclimate to a brand new character right at the end.

#10
Invisible Man

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it's a decent idea. not sure if I'd care for that as an ending though, personally. also I don't think the ending we actually see would really support it.

#11
Reigned

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Michotic wrote...

If it were a suitably epic death, maybe. Getting lasered just doesn't seem to cut it. Either way, I'd still want that to be the end of the story. I don't want to have to acclimate to a brand new character right at the end.


I'd guess Bioware would assume whatever cinematics they create of the united Galaxy whooping the Reapers quad would be epic enough. All the while the lasered dying Shepard seeing Harbinger finall being taken down. :\\

#12
SwobyJ

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IMO you are partially correct but partially incorrect, OP.

But you do have some of the right idea.

I think the final choice actually does a hell of a lot, even if we're only shown half of what really happened. And yes, I think part of it really happened.

#13
Reigned

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SwobyJ wrote...
And yes, I think part of it really happened.


Which parts to be more precise?

#14
SwobyJ

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Reigned wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...
And yes, I think part of it really happened.


Which parts to be more precise?


A layer of everything we saw. Yes, everything (including EC). Keyword is 'layer' though. The later the events 'happen', the more unreal they are and the more symbolic they ought to be viewed as. Or rather, virtual.

Earth.
Purgatory.
Afterlife.
Eternity.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 02 janvier 2014 - 02:45 .


#15
AlanC9

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Reigned wrote..
2. IF your EMS is low and your Galatic Readiness is crap, 


So if you don't play MP, you lose? Really?

#16
AlanC9

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Reigned wrote...

Michotic wrote...

The player spends a trilogy developing the character to watch him/her die right at the end, then we get thrown into the role of a brand new protagonist? I don't really care for that.


Yeah I see what you mean and it does suck, but knowing the sacrifice in which Shepard unites the entire galaxy to defeat the greatest threat known to man, I am okay with that. Just like I had to be okay with Spike Spiegel sacrificing his life in Cowboy Bebop, to know he lived a full one.


But Shepard isn't sacrificing his life to unite the galaxy. He's already done that. Shep's sacrificing his life in a failed attempt to activate the Crucible. A failed and foolish attempt, because it turns out the Power of Friendship was enough to win the war anyway,  and the whole fight on Earth was a bloody and worthless sideshow.

Edit: not saying that's necessarily a problem. I'm OK with the hero dying a worthless death. Are you?

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 janvier 2014 - 04:27 .


#17
AlexMBrennan

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It didn't take place for it to be a part of her 'life review', so how do you explain that?

Because your "life review" is a stupid idea? Obviously people will report NDE similar to the ones they've read about much like people used to think that alien anal probing was due to spirits sitting on people's chests. There is no logical inconsistency with a dying brain creating hallucinations of such a conversation or choice

because the Reapers wont destroy what is also a part of them

That's rather missing the point of synthesis; the Reapers reap because they think that it is the only way of preventing the destruction of all life in the galaxy via organics making synthetics.

Now, this begs the question, if this is nothing more than a sequence in Shepards mind, to comfort himself/herself through death, then WTH is actually happening in reality?

No it doesn't.

Well after Bioware talking loads about ME4, a successor, having nothing to do with Shepard, how could they pull it off if Shepards decision is one that decides the total fate of the galaxy?

By having a new character?

. So now, you'd probably ask, well how does the universe continue if the Crucible doesn't activate at all to do anything to the Reapers?

The Reapers haven't destroyed the universe before, so what makes you think they'll destroy the universe this time? The expected outcome of the Crucible failing is simply a Reaper victory, followed by more cycles and maybe another uprising a few thousand cycles down the line when all lucky stars align (protheans sabotaged the keepers and managed to build a relay, krogan stalled Sovereign's rachni plans, etc)

1. IF your EMS is high or maxed out and your Galatic Readiness is positive, it will show the Crucible not do not a darn thing. Instead, the union of your maxed our military will decimate the Reapers, it wont be pretty, it wont be happy go lucky, but the galaxy will win. This makes sense

For two and a half games we have consistently been shown that it takes more than an entire fleet to take out a single enemy ship (e.g. the Rannoch reaper is able to shrug off concentrated fire from the entire quarian fleet until they got lucky and hit a tiny comic book weak spot), so how exactly does it make sense to magically reverse everything in the final battle? Do you want marines in space suits hover 10ft from every Reaper capital ship to paint its weak spot?

Furthermore, this just underlines that Shepard wasn't a hero but an inept commander; on his orders everyone went chasing a ultimately pointless device when they could have ended the war much earlier and saved billions of lives. Shepard would go down in history as the next General Custer.

To me, this didn't sound too crappy if it became the case, in my honest opinion it would only make sense. Again, not too sure if anyone ever's thought of this before

Loads of people have - it's called denial. You don't want Shepard's story to be over, or you wanted a different ending to the series, or whatever but that didn't pan out... so now you desperately cling to hope that Bioware will pull a "It was all just a dream" retcon to allow you to try again: If all we've seen is Shepard's dying vision (in that case, how did the narrator learn about Shepard's dying vision) then there's yet hope for a worthy end to the series.

#18
SwobyJ

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AlanC9 wrote...

Reigned wrote..
2. IF your EMS is low and your Galatic Readiness is crap, 


So if you don't play MP, you lose? Really?


Haha... yeah.. it's stuff like that I can't roll with.


And let me be clear: A "'Lost' ending" would be absolute.... you know what... for this series.

IMO there are some aspects of it happening that are not yet explained in the overt narrative of the series, but I completely believe Shepard when they say Shepard's STORY is over. Like they often do, I think they're playing with Semantics (big S in this case, heh), but I also don't think that OP has the whole story here.

And hey, I wanted Shepard to get outta the indoc rubble as much as many. However, after Citadel DLC, I just think Bioware's going a different-but-similarish-enough route that won't be as clear-cut as ..well... most video gamers seem to want, including often myself.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 02 janvier 2014 - 04:48 .


#19
SwobyJ

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Did Bioware actually say 'ME4' will have NOTHING to do with Shepard?

Maybe they did, but I'm just wondering here.

AFAIK, they only really said:
1)It (as in its story) will not relate (key word there) to Shepard
2)Shepard's story is over
3)We will not be playing Shepard

That kinda stuff. All of which I'm honestly totally cool with, at least in itself.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 02 janvier 2014 - 04:51 .


#20
Reigned

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AlanC9 wrote...

Reigned wrote..
2. IF your EMS is low and your Galatic Readiness is crap, 


So if you don't play MP, you lose? Really?


Not entirely just MP, the most important part just being the EMS being significant you know and the GR playing a very small portion.

#21
Reigned

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SwobyJ wrote...

Did Bioware actually say 'ME4' will have NOTHING to do with Shepard?

Maybe they did, but I'm just wondering here.

AFAIK, they only really said:
1)It (as in its story) will not relate (key word there) to Shepard
2)Shepard's story is over
3)We will not be playing Shepard

That kinda stuff. All of which I'm honestly totally cool with, at least in itself.


So am I, I just thought it was a cool theory of most of the plot holes at the end. I knew Shepard wasn't going to last through the series finale. I just think that would be a cool way to sum up everything at the end IMO.

#22
Reigned

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

It didn't take place for it to be a part of her 'life review', so how do you explain that?

Because your "life review" is a stupid idea? Obviously people will report NDE similar to the ones they've read about much like people used to think that alien anal probing was due to spirits sitting on people's chests. There is no logical inconsistency with a dying brain creating hallucinations of such a conversation or choice

because the Reapers wont destroy what is also a part of them

That's rather missing the point of synthesis; the Reapers reap because they think that it is the only way of preventing the destruction of all life in the galaxy via organics making synthetics.

Now, this begs the question, if this is nothing more than a sequence in Shepards mind, to comfort himself/herself through death, then WTH is actually happening in reality?

No it doesn't.

Well after Bioware talking loads about ME4, a successor, having nothing to do with Shepard, how could they pull it off if Shepards decision is one that decides the total fate of the galaxy?

By having a new character?

. So now, you'd probably ask, well how does the universe continue if the Crucible doesn't activate at all to do anything to the Reapers?

The Reapers haven't destroyed the universe before, so what makes you think they'll destroy the universe this time? The expected outcome of the Crucible failing is simply a Reaper victory, followed by more cycles and maybe another uprising a few thousand cycles down the line when all lucky stars align (protheans sabotaged the keepers and managed to build a relay, krogan stalled Sovereign's rachni plans, etc)

1. IF your EMS is high or maxed out and your Galatic Readiness is positive, it will show the Crucible not do not a darn thing. Instead, the union of your maxed our military will decimate the Reapers, it wont be pretty, it wont be happy go lucky, but the galaxy will win. This makes sense

For two and a half games we have consistently been shown that it takes more than an entire fleet to take out a single enemy ship (e.g. the Rannoch reaper is able to shrug off concentrated fire from the entire quarian fleet until they got lucky and hit a tiny comic book weak spot), so how exactly does it make sense to magically reverse everything in the final battle? Do you want marines in space suits hover 10ft from every Reaper capital ship to paint its weak spot?

Furthermore, this just underlines that Shepard wasn't a hero but an inept commander; on his orders everyone went chasing a ultimately pointless device when they could have ended the war much earlier and saved billions of lives. Shepard would go down in history as the next General Custer.

To me, this didn't sound too crappy if it became the case, in my honest opinion it would only make sense. Again, not too sure if anyone ever's thought of this before

Loads of people have - it's called denial. You don't want Shepard's story to be over, or you wanted a different ending to the series, or whatever but that didn't pan out... so now you desperately cling to hope that Bioware will pull a "It was all just a dream" retcon to allow you to try again: If all we've seen is Shepard's dying vision (in that case, how did the narrator learn about Shepard's dying vision) then there's yet hope for a worthy end to the series.




Whoa whoa, calm down killer. Just an idea I had, being a fan and all I appreciate destroying the Reapers period, as that was the oint the entire series. Just interesting to see the fanbases come up with new theories every now and again and this was one I felt would be pretty interesting.

#23
SwobyJ

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Reigned wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Did Bioware actually say 'ME4' will have NOTHING to do with Shepard?

Maybe they did, but I'm just wondering here.

AFAIK, they only really said:
1)It (as in its story) will not relate (key word there) to Shepard
2)Shepard's story is over
3)We will not be playing Shepard

That kinda stuff. All of which I'm honestly totally cool with, at least in itself.


So am I, I just thought it was a cool theory of most of the plot holes at the end. I knew Shepard wasn't going to last through the series finale. I just think that would be a cool way to sum up everything at the end IMO.


Unless we do Breath Theory (or whatever it was of people actually thinking Breath Destroy ending's scene was of Shepard DYING), Shepard actually can last through the series finale.

However, it doesn't mean he'll keep being ShepardAsWeKnowHim. He depended on those implants to live, didn't he?


~~~

I guess you're thinking about him rising from the rubble and kicking ass?

Hey, that can still happen.

But I guess it's not what ME3 itself is about.

Again, layers.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 02 janvier 2014 - 06:00 .


#24
Reigned

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SwobyJ wrote...

Reigned wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Did Bioware actually say 'ME4' will have NOTHING to do with Shepard?

Maybe they did, but I'm just wondering here.

AFAIK, they only really said:
1)It (as in its story) will not relate (key word there) to Shepard
2)Shepard's story is over
3)We will not be playing Shepard

That kinda stuff. All of which I'm honestly totally cool with, at least in itself.


So am I, I just thought it was a cool theory of most of the plot holes at the end. I knew Shepard wasn't going to last through the series finale. I just think that would be a cool way to sum up everything at the end IMO.


Unless we do Breath Theory (or whatever it was of people actually thinking Breath Destroy ending's scene was of Shepard DYING), Shepard actually can last through the series finale.

However, it doesn't mean he'll keep being ShepardAsWeKnowHim. He depended on those implants to live, didn't he?


Many people looked at that 'Breath' as he still being alive, I more or less, seen it as his last personally. I couldn't imagine them somehow keeping Shepard alive or bringing him back from death again.

#25
AlanC9

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Reigned wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Reigned wrote..
2. IF your EMS is low and your Galatic Readiness is crap, 

So if you don't play MP, you lose? Really?

Not entirely just MP, the most important part just being the EMS being significant you know and the GR playing a very small portion.


You do know that EMS already is changed by readiness, right? Why not just say you lose  if your EMS is below, say, 3100, or whatever you're shooting for?

And why'd you figure Bio would kill Shepard? If the next game isn't about him it doesn't matter if he's dead or not, does it?

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 janvier 2014 - 06:07 .