98 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

Are we talking cameos, returning NPCs or returning characters? To me, all 3 of these are different categories.

Cameos are basically one scene/quest and they don't appear again in the game. This would be things like the various DA:O party companions, Delilah Howe etc. I actually think these are the ones that tend to make a world feel smaller since you just HAPPEN to run into the same character.that appeared in one quest/scene across the games.

Returning NPCs I think are slightly different. These would be Merill, Cullen and isabela. All 3 in the previous game have about a couple minutes of dialogue. Merril and Isabela of course got upgraded to full party companions I actually don't have a problem with this as Bioware tries harder to integrate them with the new storyline.

Returning companions would be Anders and now Varric. Characters who were actual
party members

Cassandra I think falls more into the 2nd one since really even though the narrative of DA2 is framed to her, the total amount of interaction you have with Cassandra is even less than say you have with Isabela in DA:O.

[The Elder King]

I prefer to have a party composed of new characters, or at least not former companions. Though it seems that there'll be a large number of new companions, so I could live with Varric (which I liked a lot in DA2) returning, assuming he's not written as badly (in my opinion) as Oghren in DAA. Cassandra is relatively new as a character.
As for the characters outside of the party, I don't have problems with characters with a fairly large role returning (like Cullen in DA2 and Wrex in ME2). My problem is with pointless cameo that reduces character to a little part of their personality ('swooping is bad'). I know that such cameos would probably happen, but so far the characters rumoured to return could have a fairly large role.
Though I don't remember any rumours about Sten and Shale returning. Unless appearing in the comics and books count as a rumour. And for Sten, I highly doubt he'll appear in DAI, unless Bioware wants to add a qunari invasion to the plot.
I and other people stated that they want the qunari to appear invading Thedas at the end of the game with Sten/Arishok as the lead, but that's not a rumour. It's a wishful thinking.

[KC_Prototype]

DA2 had two/three barley, familiar faces. Isabella, who we met once in a **** house. Anders who we met in a Awakening and he became a new character in DA2. Merrill is only familiar if you played a Dalish warrior/rogue. Other than that, fresh new characters and I hope DA:I follows that formula and it looks like it is. So far, we have Varric and Cassandra and maybe Cullen. I'm guessing the last 6 or 7 will be brand new characters.

[Cigne]

Bleachrude wrote...

Are we talking cameos, returning NPCs or returning characters? To me, all 3 of these are different categories.

<snip>

I agree, but some do not see any difference.

Having Merril become a party member meant having NPC's from the Dalish camp return (or explain why they were gone). Removing Pol and the rest of the returning Dalish would shrink the list considerably.

Reading the reasons given (behavior changing, becoming one joke caricatures, etc), the complaints appear to be more about how Bioware handles/executes returning characters. As in Ohgren's friendship having to be earned all over again, for example, or drunk Alistair coming across as simple comedy relief.

I personally like having some characters return; they add continuity to the world, not just a bridge between games.

[rasloveszev]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Recylced characters from the previous games. DA2's squad was essentially the best of the obscure DAO characters. I don't really want to see that. If the writers bring in new characters, then they have a clean slate to work with and a bunch of possibilities at their disposal. 

Aveline, Fenris, Anders, Isabela, Merill, Varric, Bethany/Carver, Sebestian
Out of these companions three of them were in DAO (two of them cameos and one of only availible in Awakening) meaing most of them ARE new characters. So.....what are you complaining about? 

[daveliam]

I tend to agree with the argument that there are different types of returning characters. I like the categories listed above. For me, it breaks down like this:

Cameos - these could be okay but I'd like them to have a real meaning instead of just "Wow, there's a character that I (the player, but not the character) used to know." Those are meaningless to me and actually work to weaken the story in my opinion. If they had a purpose, fine, then I'm all for it. Alistair in DA 2 is a good example of the difference. If he's King, then it's not terribly out of the realm of possibility that he would be visiting Kirkwall and meet with the Champion of Kirkwall. That's fine. However, if he's a drunk recluse, then he HAPPENS to be drunk and in the same bar, in a different country, as the PC (and Isabela, who he met in Denerim). Seems too much of stretch to be credible. When a bunch of the latter happen, then it seems more like the purpose is just to recycle characters. I'd rather not see a character than see them just for a 30 second tangential cameo.

Returning NPCs - Again, to me it depends on how they are done. A character like Marethari is fine with me because it makes sense for the story. She was the Keeper of a clan of Dalish near Flemeth's home, so it's not unrealistic to think that Flemeth would send the Hawkes to see find her with the amulet. Cullen is a bit sketchier. Do they ever explain WHY he was in Kirkwall? Or is it just "I've been reassigned...."? If there's a good reason, then I'm cool with it. If not, then it seems like the cameo thing. I'll have to hold off with Morrigan and Leliana in DA: I to see if it makes sense to me that they are involved in a major political matter in Orlais. I suspect it will, so I'll be cool with it.

Returning companions: I strongly dislike returning companions if they were in a prior game. I just find it too coincidental to think that they are in another country helping another hero. Oghen in DA: A just seemed a bit lazy to me. His role could easily have been played by a new character, so I'm not sure why they decided to recycle him. Although, this could have been explained by having Oghren WITH the Warden Commander in the beginning of the game. If the Warden Commander was an imported character, then it makes sense that Oghren just stayed on with his friend after the Blight. If the WC wasn't an import, then it becomes sketchy again. Anders in DA 2 was a bit harder to explain, but not out of the realm of possibility, given the Ferelden refugees in Kirkwall. But his character was so different, that it would have been better to have it be a different character, in my opinion. Funny though, that I actually like having NPCs from prior games becoming companions later. Isabela didn't bother me at all and Cullen, if he's a companion and it's explained well, wouldn't either.

Modifié par daveliam, 02 janvier 2014 - 07:29 .

[Thibax]

Cassandra and Varric are companions.

Morrigan is npc.

Maybe the Warden and Hawke will be cited.

And probably Alistair, Leliana, Isabela, Anders and Flemeth will appear too.

[Bleachrude]

Delilah Howe I think is perhaps the best example of a "did Bioware really need to use her" cameo. I know Bioware puts these touches in so that it gives a sense of continuation of the world but at the same time, I think it shrinks the world.

Whereas Cullen seems more integrated into the story and isn't just a "hey look, I was in the last game too" shout out that Delilah Howe and what I considered Zevran to be...

Leliana's cameo worked given the storyline (her becoming the left hand of the Divine makes sense if she is alive since at that point in time, she would be one of the most famous highly religious character in the world... Moreso if the ashes were revealed to exist and be intact).

[PsychoBlonde]

Nefla wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Nefla wrote...

I'm right there with you but it already seems like it's heading towards a cameo filled cheese-fest. Varric, Cassandra, Vivienne are all pre existing characters who are party members

 Vivienne isn't pre-existing.

Someone told me she was from the books/comics but I don't read them so I'll defer to you on that.

Her POSITION was mentioned like, ONCE.  Not her name or any details about her.  Claiming she's a recurring character would be like complaining that the "Paragon who invented double-smelting process" was a recurring character because the EXISTENCE of this person was mentioned in a previous game.  

[PsychoBlonde]

Bleachrude wrote...

Delilah Howe I think is perhaps the best example of a "did Bioware really need to use her" cameo. I know Bioware puts these touches in so that it gives a sense of continuation of the world but at the same time, I think it shrinks the world.

Whereas Cullen seems more integrated into the story and isn't just a "hey look, I was in the last game too" shout out that Delilah Howe and what I considered Zevran to be...

Leliana's cameo worked given the storyline (her becoming the left hand of the Divine makes sense if she is alive since at that point in time, she would be one of the most famous highly religious character in the world... Moreso if the ashes were revealed to exist and be intact).

Yeah, some stuff makes sense, some doesn't.  I could have done without a lot of the cameos and pointless mentions of stuff that didn't matter.  "Oh, here's a random encounter mentioning werewolves that has absolutely nothing to do with this game."  "Oh, here's another random quest I get to hunt down a few bit-part adversaries from the previous game that has nothing to do with anything else that's going on."  WHYYYYY.

Of course, part of the reason I abandoned Mass Effect after the first game was that I found it egregious to keep Shepard as the protagonist like he/she was the ONLY IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY.  Basically, Space Jesus.  Or, from my perspective, Boresville.  I wasn't even interested in Shepard when the first game came out--I almost DIDN'T PLAY IT AT ALL for that very reason.

There's tying the world together and then there's acting like the entire world contains, maybe fifty people.

They could even do a funny scene where you have some situation where you might expect a cameo and the Inquisitor could say something like "ooh, will I get to meet *famous person*?"  Then the NPC can give you a disgusted look and say something along the lines of "this organization consists of more than one person!  *Famous Person* really has a very minor role!"

That'd be HILARIOUS.

[Nefla]

As other people have mentioned, aside from being pointless and cheesy the excessive cameos make the world feel tiny. That was already a problem in DA2 and all the cameos made it worse. When I travel to a different state, guess how many existing acquaintances I see? None. Yet I live in a world where there is super fast travel such as cars, airplanes,etc...the people if thedas haven't even been shown using horses or carriages. Why and how would they become so well traveled?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

 WAIT WHAT? *GASP*
Bioware is using important lore characters in their fantasy universe as cameos and primary characters  to further the story arcs? Instead of incerting random NPC 38533? Madness....

[AresKeith]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

 WAIT WHAT? *GASP*
Bioware is using important lore characters in their fantasy universe as cameos and primary characters  to further the story arcs? Instead of incerting random NPC 38533? Madness....

The problem is that it makes their universe small

Now I don't mind cameos (if it makes sense), but they shouldn't always be primary characters 

[Nefla]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

 WAIT WHAT? *GASP*
Bioware is using important lore characters in their fantasy universe as cameos and primary characters  to further the story arcs? Instead of incerting random NPC 38533? Madness....

Except out of all the characters mentioned, only Morrigan and Alistair(if he's king) were actually important. Most of the cameos were cheesy, pointless, added NOTHING to the story and made no sense. They were there for cheap 'fanservice' and brought the quality of the story down. Also no one is saying "make generic one dimensional NPCs instead!" We're saying make new interesting awesome characters and leave the old ones as they were instead of making them shells of their former selves...but you would know that if you'd read any of the replies to this thread.

[Adela]

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

[Ianamus]

I'd prefer it if the rest of the cast are new characters but I don't have an issue with Cassandra returning, because we never actually met her as Hawke. She was just a framing character who was heavily hinted at being being a future companion. Having somebody around who knows about all the main events you went through in the previous game is also pretty cool from a meta perspective. Plus Cassandra is awesome.

I'm not sure about Varric though. I liked him, but I'm not sure about having him as a party member again under a new protagonist. I do like the idea of Cassandra and Varric becoming friends after the events of Dragon Age 2, but I think he belongs with Hawke, not the Inquisitor.

Modifié par EJ107, 03 janvier 2014 - 12:11 .

[AresKeith]

EJ107 wrote...

I'm not sure about Varric though. I liked him, but I'm not sure about having him as a party member again under a new protagonist. I do like the idea of Cassandra and Varric becoming friends after the events of Dragon Age 2, but I think he belongs with Hawke, not the Inquisitor.

Then again Varric has a network of information that can be very useful to the Inquisitor

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

ag99 wrote...

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

Do you bump into your friends from Romania, Germany, US and the UK every time you step out your door though?

[Adela]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

ag99 wrote...

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

Do you bump into your friends from Romania, Germany, US and the UK every time you step out your door though?

No, but if i ever want to go to those places again im gonna call 'em up and hang out, also it has been mentioned that we will be revisiting some places like Fereldan and such so yea I think it makes sense that we would see some familiar faces,  and some of the returning cast does make sense in one way or another weather ppl like it or not like Cassandra with the seekers, Varric  with his carta connections, and maybe Cullen being a templar/ red templar (altho I doubt he will be a companion  I think he will be an Npc again), Leliana being the right or left hand of the Divine and Morrigan.. maybe with the mirror or ties to Flemeth again. Also there is not THAT may that are returning most of our party is gonna be new characters so I dont understand what the fuss is about we will have the beardy GW, Sera, Elf mage dude, Viv, Trident guy and maybe Cole

Modifié par ag99, 03 janvier 2014 - 12:32 .

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

The Inquisitor is a new character. He/she has no connections with any of these people.

I doubt the Inquisitor is calling them to hang out. Alistair, Zevran, Leliana and Nathaniel all going to Kirkwall at the same time wasn't because Hawke called them up on the metagameline.

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 03 janvier 2014 - 12:37 .

[Adela]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

The Inquisitor is a new character. He/she has no connections with any of these people.

I doubt the Inquisitor is calling them to hang out. Alistair, Zevran, Leliana and Nathaniel all going to Kirkwall at the same time wasn't because Hawke called them up on the metagameline.

You kind of missed my point but whatever.
Anyway some characters have made a name for themselfs through out the games  some of them have become important ppl and there are connections between them with the warden and Hawke  witch have both "mysteriously vanished" and I assume that we will have to find them eventually, witch may lead us to some of the characters that we have seen before

[In Exile]

ag99 wrote...

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

It's a small world if you run into all of them in a week's span one time in Paris. 

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

ag99 wrote...

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

It's a small world if you run into all of them in a week's span one time in Paris. 

And they all just happen to be your friends who are also in the special forces and can help you kill monstrous amounts of people without taking some much as a scratch.

That's kind of stretching the imagination of how many people you meet who are willing to follow you through the ends of the earth.

[Ianamus]

In Exile wrote...

ag99 wrote...

I personally don't get why ppl keep saying that "it makes the world feel small" heck in rl i know ppl from Romania, Germany, US, and UK does that mean its a small world just because i know ppl no it does not it just give it a sense of familiarity and there is nothing wrong with that

It's a small world if you run into all of them in a week's span one time in Paris. 

This won't be much of an issue in Inquisition, since you'll be travelling to many different locations. Plus, while Hawke was just a commoner and then the hero of a single city, the Inquisitor will be forming an incredibly powerful multi-national military organisation. It would make a lot more sense for the Inquisitor to meet with important charcters like Alistair (if he's king) or the right/left hand of the divine than for Hawke. It also makes more sense for enthusiastic/talented individuals from previous games like Dagna to join your organisation. 

That said, I'd rather they made the majority of companions and important NPC's new charcters. 

Modifié par EJ107, 03 janvier 2014 - 01:32 .

[In Exile]

EJ107 wrote...
 It would make a lot more sense for the Inquisitor to meet with important charcters like Alistair (if he's king) or the right/left hand of the divine than for Hawke. It also makes more sense for enthusiastic/talented individuals from previous games like Dagna to join your organisation. 

I think Dagna is a real stretch. Alistair, if he's king or a GW, sure. It makes sense on those fronts. But Nathaniel's sister?