258 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

nyanyagul wrote...


you forget they can even comunicate to bloodmage and grant magic power like teaching how to use blood magic... that is hardly mabari lvl...

which occasion was this? i don't seem to recall such an event.

if you're talking about Dumat, i firmly believe Old Gods just take on the appearance they desire just like Flemmeth can shapeshift into a high dragon while she herself is not a dragon, much like how morrigan can change into a bear or a spider but is still human.

so if i'm remembering correctly, there's no records of dragons doing such a thing. i might be forgetting something, so i ask for a confirmation.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 03 janvier 2014 - 11:02 .

[nyanyagul]

yeah i was talking about dumat... , and the other old gods... about shapeshifting theory... even flemeth only shift to dragon mode when engaged but these guys seems in dragon mode even when imprisioned...

Modifié par nyanyagul, 03 janvier 2014 - 10:48 .

[nightcobra]

nyanyagul wrote...

yeah i was talking about dumat... , and the other old gods... about shapeshifting theory... even flemeth only shift to dragon mode when engaged but these guys seems in dragon mode even when imprisioned...

old gods can shapeshift as well, as an archdemon can possess a normal darkspawn body and shapeshift it into a dragon body, it happens whenever it's killed by someone who's not a grey warden.
and we only see the dragon form when it's already in "full blight mode", we don't know what form an old god takes when the darkspawn find it.

[nyanyagul]

so in conclusion we dont have evidence that they are trully dragons or something else in dragon form...

[Direwolf0294]

I wouldn't mind encountering a dragon that isn't hostile towards us. Maybe an injured dragon that we have the option of giving aid to.

[Vortex13]

lady_v23 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherDragon2 wrote...
I would like to see some dragons as allies or at least be able to converse with them as part of the storyline.

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

what about mounts?

That or wyverns. They're flightless dragons (technically), and we did see one as a mount in DA 2.

Modifié par Vortex13, 03 janvier 2014 - 11:38 .

[leaguer of one]

simfamSP wrote...

Dragons are animals, just like any other. Perhaps there is some powerful magic connected to them, but IIRC, they're no smarter than Dolphins.

Dolphins are self aware indivisual. They are more then just animals.

[leaguer of one]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherDragon2 wrote...
I would like to see some dragons as allies or at least be able to converse with them as part of the storyline.

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

I guess that means my dreams of seeing talking unicorns written by Patrick Weekes in DAI are dashed.

Also on a more serious note. Considering Yavana's speaking to the dragon in a strange language in The Silent Grove, it appears dragons are capable of being peaceful and communicable. At least to some people.

I think many entertain the idea that dragons are intelligent sapient beings, rather than giant wild beasts. And if Yavana was telling the truth(which you can never tell with her, her mother, and her sister), there's more to them than just animals.

Dude, you and other character can have lengthy conversations with you're dog. A dragon understanding a person is not that far fetched.

[Little Princess Peach]

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherDragon2 wrote...
I would like to see some dragons as allies or at least be able to converse with them as part of the storyline.

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

you make me want to cry deep inside ><

so how did the old gods communicate with the dragon whorshipers? sign?

[nightcobra]

Tharja wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherDragon2 wrote...
I would like to see some dragons as allies or at least be able to converse with them as part of the storyline.

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

you make me want to cry deep inside ><

so how did the old gods communicate with the dragon whorshipers? sign?

simple, old gods are entities that can shapeshift, we seeing them as an archdemon which looks like a dragon doesn't mean is its original form. 

[Dutchess]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

It is said that they're basically at mabari level of intelligence, give or take a few sinapses:P
and a mabari is pretty intelligent for a dog since it can comprehend what someone is talking about, it just isn't capable of verbally communicating with its master, same goes for dragons...intelligent yes but still an animal.

I still fail to see how this means that all dragons must be monsters then? Mabaris are no monsters either.

[nyanyagul]

i still dont understand why you guys wishing the dragons from this setting to be unintelligent? i'm ok with the draogn not being able to speak... but no more then just animal... meeh doesnt sound right specially there are no evidence that they are just animal ...

[Vortex13]

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

[nyanyagul]

they mean monster in a sense that dragons are just flying dinnosaur that breath fire... sry to me thats a wyvern or a drake not a dragon...

[Champion1]

Vortex13 wrote...

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

Well we have seen dragon tamers and breakers even among darkspawn, but those were only up to the level of drakes.  The Architect could control small dragons, but I think that was meant to be blood magic.  I think mature dragons and high dragons are meant to be outside the realm of control or domestication, like trying to keep a tiger cub that grows to the size of an elephant.  They aren't "evil monsters", just really big animals that are always hungry with humans being one of the largest, most abundant foods on the menu.  Dragon cults also only exist alongside smaller dragonkin, staying out the the high dragon's way except for when they rang the dinner bell, left the food, and ran. 

Modifié par Champion1, 03 janvier 2014 - 03:45 .

[Medhia Nox]

So - wait... humans aren't animals in the DA universe? (I can't say anything for elves, dwarves or qunari of course).

[nyanyagul]

Champion1 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

Well we have seen dragon tamers and breakers even among darkspawn, but those were only up to the level of drakes.  The Architect could control small dragons, but I think that was meant to be blood magic.  I think mature dragons and high dragons are meant to be outside the realm of control or domestication, like trying to keep a tiger cub that grows to the size of an elephant.  They aren't "evil monsters", just really big animals that are always hungry with humans being one of the largest, most abundant foods on the menu.  Dragon cults also only exist alongside smaller dragonkin, staying out the the high dragon's way except for when they rang the dinner bell, left the food, and ran. 

thats not true otherwise how could kolgrim be talking with the high dragon?

besides acording to the Codex entry: Archdemon it seems old gods are really high dragon and they are really mythical and intelligent beings ...

Modifié par nyanyagul, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:00 .

[pdusen]

Deleted.

Modifié par pdusen, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:01 .

[Champion1]

nyanyagul wrote...

Champion1 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

Well we have seen dragon tamers and breakers even among darkspawn, but those were only up to the level of drakes.  The Architect could control small dragons, but I think that was meant to be blood magic.  I think mature dragons and high dragons are meant to be outside the realm of control or domestication, like trying to keep a tiger cub that grows to the size of an elephant.  They aren't "evil monsters", just really big animals that are always hungry with humans being one of the largest, most abundant foods on the menu.  Dragon cults also only exist alongside smaller dragonkin, staying out the the high dragon's way except for when they rang the dinner bell, left the food, and ran. 

thats not true otherwise how could korgrim be talking with the high dragon?

besides acording to the Codex entry: Archdemon it seems old gods are really high dragon and they are really mythical and intelligent beings ...

Kolgrim couldn't talk to the high dragon.  The Disciples of Andraste were a religious order, and so wanted to believe the high dragon was Andraste.  It's like the old Vikings believing a lightning storm was a sign/communication from Odin or Thor, they saw what they wanted in acts of nature.  Kolgrim yells something to "Andraste", the high dragon lifts its head because Kolgrim has a loud and annoying voice, Kolgrim convinces everyone he just got the high dragon's approval.  The high dragon lets them feed it because hey, easy food!  If a cultist got eaten, Kolgrim would have just spun it to say that the eaten had done something wrong.

Maybe an Old God is the next evolution of a special kind of high dragon, though the Dragonbone Wastes seem to indicate strongly they have a fixed lifespan.  Maybe the Old Gods really were some form of lesser god and just chose to look like high dragons to get more worshippers, since high dragons are the most powerful beings in Thedas, magical powers and intelligence or no.  Only the Devs know what really happened there, so all we can do is speculate. 

[Vortex13]

Champion1 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

Well we have seen dragon tamers and breakers even among darkspawn, but those were only up to the level of drakes.  The Architect could control small dragons, but I think that was meant to be blood magic.  I think mature dragons and high dragons are meant to be outside the realm of control or domestication, like trying to keep a tiger cub that grows to the size of an elephant.  They aren't "evil monsters", just really big animals that are always hungry with humans being one of the largest, most abundant foods on the menu.  Dragon cults also only exist alongside smaller dragonkin, staying out the the high dragon's way except for when they rang the dinner bell, left the food, and ran. 

Domesitication would be out of the question I agree, I don't think we will ever be able to walk up to a high dragon and tell it to fly off and attack a specific enemy stronghold. But dragons in the setting are very intelligent, wouldn't it be possible for it to associate the Inqusition with "Provider of food" and/or "Protector of Nest" and therefore be more inclined to not attack them?

Symbioctic relationships have had similar parrings in the real world; for example sharks have been know to allow certain types of fish to swim inside their mouths and around their bodies to clean them off. I would imagine that a Dragon is a great deal more intelligent then a shark, and would be more inclined to enter into a symbiotic relationship with creatures that helped it.

[TK514]

Vortex13 wrote...

Champion1 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Are we talking about Dragons being monsters in the sense that they have no means of communication with other races, or being monsters in the sense that Dragons = Bad Guys?

I wonder if the possibility of gaining dragon 'allies' is still on the table after Mr. Gaider's clarification, Mabari aren't at human levels of intelligence, but our dog was quite capable of following commands and helping out the player.

Would we be able to do something similar with a dragon? Obviously, a dragon companion would be too far fetched, but a dragon watch dog? The player being able to get on the beast's 'good side' by protecting its nest, and feeding it the occasional enemy, and the dragon in turn not attacking the Inquisition forces; would something like that be in the realm of possibilities?

Well we have seen dragon tamers and breakers even among darkspawn, but those were only up to the level of drakes.  The Architect could control small dragons, but I think that was meant to be blood magic.  I think mature dragons and high dragons are meant to be outside the realm of control or domestication, like trying to keep a tiger cub that grows to the size of an elephant.  They aren't "evil monsters", just really big animals that are always hungry with humans being one of the largest, most abundant foods on the menu.  Dragon cults also only exist alongside smaller dragonkin, staying out the the high dragon's way except for when they rang the dinner bell, left the food, and ran. 

Domesitication would be out of the question I agree, I don't think we will ever be able to walk up to a high dragon and tell it to fly off and attack a specific enemy stronghold. But dragons in the setting are very intelligent, wouldn't it be possible for it to associate the Inqusition with "Provider of food" and/or "Protector of Nest" and therefore be more inclined to not attack them?

I always assumed this was Kulgrim & Company's relationship with the High Dragon at Haven.  If feral cats and dogs can figure out "don't run from this one, he brings food", then a high dragon would probably be smart enough to do something similar.  As you point out, not domestication, merely intelligent enough to determine "If I don't eat this thing, it will bring me more food".

Though I just had an amusing mental image of the High Dragon version of 'standing in front of the monitor, meowing for dinner'.

[Champion1]

And when the food-bringer is late, misses a day, or doesn't bring enough, the high dragon just might bite more than the hand that feeds it...

Modifié par Champion1, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:40 .

[CannotCompute]

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherDragon2 wrote...
I would like to see some dragons as allies or at least be able to converse with them as part of the storyline.

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

After having seen the 2nd Hobbit movie, I'm actually glad the new Dragon Age game won't include talking animals. I would have liked Smaug better if he/it would've been just a cunning beast. Also, the talking spiders in the first part of the movie looked a bit silly.

Modifié par CannotCompute, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:41 .

[Vortex13]

Champion1 wrote...

And when the food-bringer is late, misses a day, or doesn't bring enough, the high dragon just might bite more than the hand that feeds it...

Acceptable losses, when compared to a beast that would destroy any 'non-friendlies' even approching its nest.

Supposing the Inquisitor had a keep built very close to a dragon nest, that would be a definate deternent to enemies attacking that keep. Sure a few people might be maimed or killed in 'tending' to the dragon,but if the beast is at least as intelligent as a Mabari, it would conclude that kiiling those attacking Red Templars would be in it's best interest as those Red Templars are threatening its free meal ticket.

[nyanyagul]

then what about yavana?