258 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

Sigh. I just don't know. The idea that the dragons are just monsters is rather disappointing to me. And boring.

Mind you, I'm not interested in Puff the Magic Dragon, and doing a song and dance routine w/them.

But the idea that the dragons of DA are just giant XP bags is a bit of a let down to me. I was rather hoping their story would be more interesting than Mook!Dragon #348961.

[Mirrman70]

I like the classical approach to dragons simply being apex predators of the animal world rather than being sapient and goal driven. Before Tolkien virtually all western dragons were just beasts, powerful beasts sure but still not sapient. I think all this "I want talking dragons and/or to ride them" is just overflow from skyrim.

[Champion1]

Mirrman70 wrote...

I like the classical approach to dragons simply being apex predators of the animal world rather than being sapient and goal driven. Before Tolkien virtually all western dragons were just beasts, powerful beasts sure but still not sapient. I think all this "I want talking dragons and/or to ride them" is just overflow from skyrim.

The desire for a personal dragon pal in video games has been around long before Skyrim.  Skyrim is just the latest example/opportunity.

Modifié par Champion1, 08 janvier 2014 - 06:15 .

[rapscallioness]

Well, personally, I'm not so interested in riding a dragon. Or, being "pals". But that's just me.

It's more that I would like to have some mystery about them. Something intriguing and mysterious to their story. If they are indeed just monsters, then that's not a very intriguing mystery. Lol!

[Mirrman70]

I would perhaps support an uncorrupted Old God showing up and talking but if only to affirm that there is a difference between the Old Gods and dragons.

[Vortex13]

I still say that Dragons should be 'allies' in the sense that they can be used to the player's benefit, rather then being a bad guy in need of slaying. Even if Dragons are only marginally smarter then Mabari, I still say that having them as mounts and/or watch dogs should still be possible.

Having a keep built near a dragon's nest, with the citizens feeding it and protecting its young should allow a pragmatic player to have said dragon's help when defending against an invasion of Red Templars, for example.

Even if the dragon is rather vicious and kills its tenders from time to time, it would still be intelligent enough to know that the attacking force would be destroying its free meal ticket, and free nest security.

Even Sharks are capable of making such a call, when they let certain fish swim freely into their mouths to clean them.

[nightcobra]

Mirrman70 wrote...

I like the classical approach to dragons simply being apex predators of the animal world rather than being sapient and goal driven. Before Tolkien virtually all western dragons were just beasts, powerful beasts sure but still not sapient. I think all this "I want talking dragons and/or to ride them" is just overflow from skyrim.

riding a dragon and a dragon being sapient aren't the same thing though. who knows, maybe there's a npc who can tame one, mayhaps the antagonist or even the protagonist. it's all up for speculations for the time being.

[Boycott Bioware]

Dragon Age supposed to be about Dragon Age, but the dragons are not interesting at all other than the Archdemon..even there is an Archdemon that is a dragon, he's just a dragon in the game, yes we have some stories and lore about the Old Gods and such but in the game he's just a dragon

Archdemon have no character at all, not like Alduin, Paarthunax and Odahving....at least Bethesda do a good job there giving those dragons their own character

It comes to the very same question i am asking all the time..what Dragon Age is about?

[Elhanan]

David Gaider wrote...

No talking animals. This is one of the underlying rules for the Dragon Age universe, and it includes dragons. Closest we've come to breaking that rule is the desire demon illusion in the Shale adventure (which was technically a talking cat), but it's never going to be a thing otherwise.

So, yes, all dragons must be monsters.

As the Archdemon was able to speak in a way to the troops, are all Old Gods monstrous? Or are some of these possible allies?

[Boycott Bioware]

MasterScribe wrote...
Thedas and its people.

Wrong answer....the real answer is "Dragon Age is not about dragons at all" (edit : "...and the title is misleading")

Modifié par Qistina, 08 janvier 2014 - 07:33 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Let us compare Alduin and Archdemon

Alduin
- he appear at the time the Dragonborn about to be executed, he destroy the whole village
- there are books about Alduin and there is rumors that Alduin is Akatosh
- he is the big bad boss in the game, his job is destroying the world
- he can talk both in dragon language and human language
- his brother is Paarthunax, who disagree with him, who teach human how to fight dragons. Paarthunax was his side kick
- he despise the Dragonborn and mock the Dragonborn who claim to be the "Dovahkiin" but not knowing dragon language
- there is cut scene about how he got time shifted by the ancient Nords
- he engage in a battle with Paarthunax and Dragonborn
- he resurrect dragons
- he goes into spiritual realm, the realm of the dead, then having the end fight with the Dragonborn and "die" there

Archdemon
- his first appearance is "buaaarghh" cut scene at the Joining
- his second appearance is a "buuuarrgh" cut scene in Orzamar, assumed giving orders to Darkspawn
- his third appearance is again "buuuaaargh" cut scene before the camp got invaded
- his fourth appearance is flying around in Denerim
- his fifth appearance is a cut scene of he destroying a bridge
- his fourth appearance is get pawned by Riordan
- he is the big bad boss in the game, but the whole game is not about him at all...

Between Alduin and Archdemon, Alduin is far more interesting than Archdemon. You see, Archdemon is supposed to be the biggest villain in the game, but he just show up here and there in cut scenes, have no interaction at all with the main character. The whole game also nothing about learning his nature and anything about him.

Modifié par Qistina, 08 janvier 2014 - 07:55 .

[budzai]

why evryone come with skyrim... you all know that wasn't the first time a dragon talked right? -.-

[TK514]

Qistina wrote...

Let us compare Alduin and Archdemon

and while we're at it, we can compare apples, oranges, the moon, and other things that are only superficially alike.

the only thing Alduin and the Archdemon have in common are that they are both an interpretation of the traditional flying, fire breathing lizards we tend to lump together as 'dragons'.

Alduin was a character, and the primary antagonist.
The Archdemon was a plot device, with as much characterization as a volcano or an earthquake.  Loghain was the primary antagonist of DA:O, not the Archdemon.

Modifié par TK514, 08 janvier 2014 - 10:28 .

[ManOfSteel]

Qistina wrote...

Let us compare Alduin and Archdemon

Alduin
- he appear at the time the Dragonborn about to be executed, he destroy the whole village
- there are books about Alduin and there is rumors that Alduin is Akatosh
- he is the big bad boss in the game, his job is destroying the world
- he can talk both in dragon language and human language
- his brother is Paarthunax, who disagree with him, who teach human how to fight dragons. Paarthunax was his side kick
- he despise the Dragonborn and mock the Dragonborn who claim to be the "Dovahkiin" but not knowing dragon language
- there is cut scene about how he got time shifted by the ancient Nords
- he engage in a battle with Paarthunax and Dragonborn
- he resurrect dragons
- he goes into spiritual realm, the realm of the dead, then having the end fight with the Dragonborn and "die" there

Archdemon
- his first appearance is "buaaarghh" cut scene at the Joining
- his second appearance is a "buuuarrgh" cut scene in Orzamar, assumed giving orders to Darkspawn
- his third appearance is again "buuuaaargh" cut scene before the camp got invaded
- his fourth appearance is flying around in Denerim
- his fifth appearance is a cut scene of he destroying a bridge
- his fourth appearance is get pawned by Riordan
- he is the big bad boss in the game, but the whole game is not about him at all...

Between Alduin and Archdemon, Alduin is far more interesting than Archdemon. You see, Archdemon is supposed to be the biggest villain in the game, but he just show up here and there in cut scenes, have no interaction at all with the main character. The whole game also nothing about learning his nature and anything about him.

The Reapers became less threatening when we learned more about them. The Xenomorph was more terrifying when we knew nothing about it. The Predator was a more threatennig villain when we knew nothing about it. 

Explaining the origins and motives of a foe can dampen it's impact. We don't need to know. It can sometimes to great to know more about them, but only when it's done right. Writers easily run the risk of ruining the mystery and threatening nature of a villain by explaining it, so they have to be careful.

Also, Dragon Age. Is. NOT. The Elder Scrolls. Nor should it be. Stop comparing them.

[Deflagratio]

Mirrman70 wrote...

I like the classical approach to dragons simply being apex predators of the animal world rather than being sapient and goal driven. Before Tolkien virtually all western dragons were just beasts, powerful beasts sure but still not sapient. I think all this "I want talking dragons and/or to ride them" is just overflow from skyrim.

I always thought that the classical Western idea of the Dragon stemmed from Norse Mythology, namely the tale of Fafnir. Smaug is undeniably based on that template, and  trickling down to the Gygax D&D Dragons still representing aspects of greed and hubris.

In this regard Bioware's "Beast" dragons are somewhat more original than I think they get credit for. Even from a biological standpoint, a "Dragon"  (Fire breathing not withstanding) isn't an implausible creature, and is very likely to be a monster of base instinct, rather than calculation.

[Boycott Bioware]

Alduin was a character, and the primary antagonist.
The Archdemon was a plot device, with as much characterization as a volcano or an earthquake. Loghain was the primary antagonist of DA:O, not the Archdemon.

Explaining the origins and motives of a foe can dampen it's impact. We don't need to know. It can sometimes to great to know more about them, but only when it's done right. Writers easily run the risk of ruining the mystery and threatening nature of a villain by explaining it, so they have to be careful.

But in DA:O, we are the last Grey Warden, and we supposed to find a way to kill the Archdemon because to end the Blight is killing the Archdemon, that is the supposed to be the story of The Grey Warden in the Dragon Age, Archdemon is a dragon

TES is about The Elder Scrolls, but in the chapter of Skyrim, it is about the Last Dragonborn using The Elder Scrolls to learn the secret shout that can be used to stop the destruction of the world by a dragon named Alduin

Both Archdemon and Alduin is the main villain in both story, but Archdemon is just a monster, have no character at all. Alduin is more interesting main villain compared with Archdemon.

You see
- Dragonborn mission is stop the destruction of the world by the dragon named Alduin. The story involving the Dragonborn using The Elder Scroll to learn the secret dragon shout, the key to stop Alduin who resurrecting dragons and creating dragon army to destroy the world. The Dragonborn learn more about him/herself and his/her enemies
- The Warden mission is to stop the Blight by find a way to kill Archdemon, but the whole story is nothing about find a way to kill Archdemon, not even about finding about who is Archdemon, and not about learning this main enemy in the world where dragons is roaming the land. The Warden know nothing about Grey Warden, Darkspawn and the dragon Archdemon

[Afro_Explosion]

Qistina wrote...


- The Warden mission is to stop the Blight by find a way to kill Archdemon, but the whole story is nothing about find a way to kill Archdemon, not even about finding about who is Archdemon, and not about learning this main enemy in the world where dragons is roaming the land. The Warden know nothing about Grey Warden, Darkspawn and the dragon Archdemon

There is no specific way to kill an archdemon, it doesn't matter as long as it dies . We do find out the name of the archdemon, its told in a codex not explained by a cut scene. What the Warden knows about the Grey Wardens, Darkspawn, and the Archdemon is limited to who you talk to and what codex you read.

[Boycott Bioware]

My point is Dragon Age title is misleading, the premise is misleading. It is not about Dragons in age of Dragons, not about investigating the nature of Archdemon who is a dragon in the age of Dragons, not about investigating why the dragons are returning and one of them bring the Blight, all the dragons in the game are just monsters. In DA2, it is totally not about dragons or the dragon Archdemon. Dragon Age is in fact the age of Dragons, but there is nothing about Dragons at all. The dragons have no character whatsoever to fit the title, poor dragons of Dragon Age...

"So, you use our species as the title of your story, but we are just the support actors?"- The Dragons

Modifié par Qistina, 09 janvier 2014 - 04:11 .

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...

My point is Dragon Age title is misleading, the premise is misleading. It is not about Dragons in age of Dragons, not about investigating the nature of Archdemon who is a dragon in the age of Dragons, not about investigating why the dragons are returning and one of them bring the Blight, all the dragons in the game are just monsters. In DA2, it is totally not about dragons or the dragon Archdemon. Dragon Age is in fact the age of Dragons, but there is nothing about Dragons at all. The dragons have no character whatsoever to fit the title, poor dragons of Dragon Age...

"So, you use our species as the title of your story, but we are just the support actors?"- The Dragons

Dragon's are symbols of violence, power, and upheaval in Thedas.  I'd say Dragons are highly relevant. 

[Rotward]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Qistina wrote...

My point is Dragon Age title is misleading, the premise is misleading. It is not about Dragons in age of Dragons, not about investigating the nature of Archdemon who is a dragon in the age of Dragons, not about investigating why the dragons are returning and one of them bring the Blight, all the dragons in the game are just monsters. In DA2, it is totally not about dragons or the dragon Archdemon. Dragon Age is in fact the age of Dragons, but there is nothing about Dragons at all. The dragons have no character whatsoever to fit the title, poor dragons of Dragon Age...

"So, you use our species as the title of your story, but we are just the support actors?"- The Dragons

Dragon's are symbols of violence, power, and upheaval in Thedas.  I'd say Dragons are highly relevant. 

As Jowan would say: Ambiguous rubbish, it could mean anything. I can do it too: Fifty shades of grey is thus named because it represents the spectrum of sexual preference! 

[Boycott Bioware]

The Elder Scrolls is about that book of prophecy, TES : Skyrim conclude about that. It is about everything that happen in Mundus is written in a scroll that exist in a place of no time and space. TES is about that, other things are just chapters and spices in the TES universe. It is about destiny, the scroll is like The Matrix where every program is written and ever changing. Anyone who study it will become crazy because no one can comprehend it, it is incomprehensible.How long Bethesda want to maintain that we don't know

But Dragon Age is not about dragon, the premise did show it could be about dragons in the first game, but turn out to be not about dragons at all. The dragons are just monsters to be killed. It is like make a movie titled "Robin Hood" but Robin Hood only appear 5 minutes in the movie, the rest is about John Doe going crusade in Muslim land. (Edit : Then the director said "the movie is about John Doe who live at the same period of Robin Hood")

Modifié par Qistina, 09 janvier 2014 - 05:14 .