155 réponses à ce sujet

[Zkyire]

eluvianix wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

As David Gaider said in another thread about this:

"Let us all hang our heads in melancholic comisseration for those who must endure the presence of insufficiently feminine women. They are the unsung heroes among us."

Bioware were the ones who made Cassandra pretty to begin with.

They don't get to turn around and then complain when some fans want her to retain that appearance.

Yeah, they can. It's their character to begin with. They can do whatever they want with her,  fan desires be damned. 

I did not say Bioware have no right to change their character.

I said they have no right to create a pretty character and then complain that their fans are so stuck on pretty appearances. That is an absolute dick move to make on their part.

[Silfren]

Zkyire wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

As David Gaider said in another thread about this:

"Let us all hang our heads in melancholic comisseration for those who must endure the presence of insufficiently feminine women. They are the unsung heroes among us."

Bioware were the ones who made Cassandra pretty to begin with.

They don't get to turn around and then complain when some fans want her to retain that appearance.

Yeah, they can. It's their character to begin with. They can do whatever they want with her,  fan desires be damned. 

I did not say Bioware have no right to change their character.

I said they have no right to create a pretty character and then complain that their fans are so stuck on pretty appearances. That is an absolute dick move to make on their part.

Creating a character that some people consider pretty, and changing her in a way such that those same people no longer consider her pretty is a dick move on Bioware's part?

How on earth is that a dick move?  None of us fans are OWED anything, and you're forgetting that what is or isn't attractive is entirely subjective.  Plenty of people think that Cassandra is still quite attractive, as much now as she was before, or never thought she was pretty at all.  Same with Morrigan, Isabela, and Aveline: Morrigan and Isabela were designed to be conventionally attractive, but from day one there have been people who thought both were ugly as sin.  Likewise, even though Aveline was (supposedly, anyway) deliberately drawn not to be attractive, quite a lot of people have found her attractive regardless.

I ask again...what in the world did Bioware do that was a dick move?

Modifié par Silfren, 03 janvier 2014 - 03:26 .

[Aesir26]

It's not like they can just import the models and even if they did try to make the characters exactly the same, they would still look quite different because of the new engine.

Also, we have to keep in mind that in the case of Morrigan quite a number of years have passed since we last saw her so she's not going to look exactly like she did in DAO anyway. In the case of Cassandra and if it's true that the war has been going on for a few years before DAI begins, then that can change a person's look as well. There's a photoset out there that shows veterans from before, during and after their tours that illustrates how much a person's appearance can change under those conditions.

I'm not saying that bone structure is subject to change because of time, stress, etc. Just that there are things that might cause appearance to change. In this case, I'm more positive that it's primarily due to the new engine.

Obviously this is just subjective, but I see no problem with Cassandra and Morrigan. I could understand the complaints if Morrigan was suddenly Qunari or if she was suddenly blonde with impossibly wide shoulders. However, slight changes to the facial structure and a change of hairstyle doesn't really seem like anything to get up in arms about.

Modifié par Aesir26, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:39 .

[Zkyire]

Silfren wrote...

Creating a character that some people consider pretty, and changing her in a way such that those same people no longer consider her pretty is a dick move on Bioware's part?

How on earth is that a dick move?  None of us fans are OWED anything, and you're forgetting that what is or isn't attractive is entirely subjective.  Plenty of people think that Cassandra is still quite attractive, as much now as she was before, or never thought she was pretty at all.  Same with Morrigan, Isabela, and Aveline: Morrigan and Isabela were designed to be conventionally attractive, but from day one there have been people who thought both were ugly as sin.  Likewise, even though Aveline was (supposedly, anyway) deliberately drawn not to be attractive, quite a lot of people have found her attractive regardless.

I ask again...what in the world did Bioware do that was a dick move?

Both of you have misinterpreted what I said now.

Bioware creates X character.

X character has a certain appearance that is generally liked.

Bioware changes X character's appearance.

More people now do not like X character's appearance.

Bioware employee complains about fan reaction saying it's solely about femininity.

Does Cassandra look less feminine than she did in Dragon Age 2? Yes.

Does Cassandra look less feminine than she did in Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker? Yes.

Does Cassandra look more masculine than she did in both DA:2 and DotS? Yes.

So it's not that any random female character doesn't look feminine. It's that a character who was designed with a pretty feminine appearance, has suddenly changed, not just in terms of age, but in terms of her entire facial structure. She does not look like the same person but a couple of years older. She looks like a completely different person.

People complain, suddenly blanket statement about fans not liking non feminine women is made by a Bioware employee when it isn't about non feminine characters in general, it's about this one character.

If you create a well-liked character and then keep redesigning said character with each installment, don't try to turn it against the fans for not liking this redesign.

Modifié par Zkyire, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:27 .

[stormhit]

You didn't answer their question, you ranted on with inane nonsense.

[Zkyire]

stormhit13 wrote...

You didn't answer their question, you ranted on with inane nonsense.

Why would I?

I'm talking(read - complaining) about Bioware's reaction to the change, not the change itself. I don't give a damn about any changes they make. Their games, whatever, redesign away.

Modifié par Zkyire, 03 janvier 2014 - 04:31 .

[duckley]

Oh yes, this discussion again! I don't care if they look better or worse. What I care about is people assuming it is age. It is the new engine or new artists - not age.

Please be advised that age does not change things like the shape of your chin, eyes, nose etc. Plastic surgury can - but not age.


Trust me - I speak from personal experience...the age part - not the plastic surgury  part (I wish)!

[Heimdall]

Zkyire wrote...

I did not say Bioware have no right to change their character.

I said they have no right to create a pretty character and then complain that their fans are so stuck on pretty appearances. That is an absolute dick move to make on their part.

Your whole point rests in the notion that Cassandra has somehow been rendered not-pretty...  I just don't see it.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 03 janvier 2014 - 05:57 .

[Kalas Magnus]

ruggly wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I think they look fine.

[Mr Cloud]

And here I thought DA:O Morrigan looked even nastier :<

Kalas Magnus wrote...

ruggly wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I think they look fine.

Also this.

[slimgrin]

It's the art design, has nothing to do with the engine. The ladies do have pretty big jaws but I suspect all that is subject to change.

[werewoof]

they snatched the beloved fantasy fodder right from the fanboys' grasp, when will it end

honestly they don't look that different to me. bioware changed engines, we saw like five seconds of cass at a weird angle, and i'm really sorry to break it to yall, but there's a slight chance morrigan might have aged since the events of origins. difficult to handle, i know. 

as far as some other changes, like everyones pointed out, they changed engines and art design.

we've also only seen a few seconds and a couple screencaps of them from earlier in the project, who knows, maybe they changed their faces again so the fanboys don't cry too much.

Modifié par tiktac, 03 janvier 2014 - 07:14 .

[Walrider]

ruggly wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I think they look fine.

[werewoof]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I hardly think pointing out that characters look different is crying. It doesn't bother me that Morrigan and Cassandra look different, but they do look different.

well if you think they look different but it doesn't bother you then it wasn't really directed at you. moreso at the folks who are genuinely distressed by the change. considering the thread title is "New old face...eeew"

[Deflagratio]

I doubt this is so much a result of "Ugly characters" as it is limitations in lighting and projecting a 3d Image from a 2d plane.

Also, consider that Inquisition takes place some years down the line from DA2 right? People age you know. Flaws become more pronounced with the imperfect and degrading process of cell replication.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 03 janvier 2014 - 08:14 .

[werewoof]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

tiktac wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I hardly think pointing out that characters look different is crying. It doesn't bother me that Morrigan and Cassandra look different, but they do look different.

well if you think they look different but it doesn't bother you then it wasn't really directed at you. moreso at the folks who are genuinely distressed by the change. considering the thread title is "New old face...eeew"

Is it necessairly a bad thing if a person cares about a character's look? A good portion of a character goes into design. I don't see how being disappointed about that is any different than being disappointed about a change in a character within the writing. People get used to a certain version of a character. If that's changed, then you should expect that they'd be disappointed.

there's disappointed and then there's having a hissy fit because the girls aren't all feminine and perfect enough. if someones like "i liked ___ old design better" then sure, but when it's all "she's not hot anymore!!!! she looks like a man!!!! ewwww!!! make her perfect and pretty again just for me!!!!" i think that's a little different than just being disappointed in a design change. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I couldn't get decent cheekbones on a female character in DA2 - DAI looks much better in this regard.

[Will-o'-wisp]

I think everyone looks great in the new engine so far! The only minor disappointment for me was that Varric's hair Color seems to have changed from blonde into Brown, but aside from that everyone looks amazing - I especially like Vivienne's and Cassandra's looks so far. ^^

[Aolbain]

superdeathdealer14 wrote...

Gaider can get you in trouble because of that? ohhhh sh***********

No, you can't. But Angrywolves has a gigantic presecution complex.

[Eternal Phoenix]

andar91 wrote...

I think they look fine.

This. I think they look better too. They look slightly like their original versions but more improved if you ask me. They are some character revamps that I approve of.