101 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Ponendus wrote...
BioWare does party-based, sweeping-story, epic cinematic, romance subplots and deep meaningful lore. All of these features are obviously very popular and I am just surprised there aren't more games like it. Is there any other studio that has tried to emulate the BioWare formula? Have I just missed it?
 

I think other studios don't copy BioWare's formula because most of the components you named are expensive to produce and appeal to a niche market. it's more cost effective just to make more brown shooters.

Modifié par bobobo878, 03 janvier 2014 - 02:02 .

[Fast Jimmy]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

Another thing to realize is about the bioware model is that they have been doing this for quite a while. Which means the model the foundation for the model that they have was already established around BG1/BG2 time. All the subsequent titles they released attempted to build upon this model and it's elements.

Well, I think it also is a case where they constantly are trying to prove they aren't their past.

For instance, KOTOR was trying to prove they aren't just swords and sorcery RPG makers, so they sacrificed some character choice in order to accomodate the Star Wars IP storyline.

NWN was trying to revolutionize the market, by basically being a game that had its biggest draw being the kit to make other games.

Jade Empire was proof that they could make their own IP, so they tried to make it as unlike any other IP out there as they could.

I'm not going to mention Sonic, simply because if that isn't proof of Bioware trying to change just to change, its embodied by that.

DA:O was an attempt to reclaim the glory of BG (and it was successful). ME was an attempt to do space again, but in their own universe.

Then with each sequel, they were trying their hardest to not make a sequel. They wanted to make each game feel like a different game and course-corrected areas they felt there were complaints or defficiencies. It was about this time that many of the old guard of Bioware began leaving, which led to a large group of fresher faces trying to prove they weren't the old Bioware and could make games that were just as good... better in fact!... that had their own stamp on things.

None of these things are, inherently, bad, but they are all examples of changing for the sake of change. And while developers should be encouraged to evolve, it still leads to consumer shock when they expect one thing and get another. Bioware has a history of trying to change everything between one game to the next... so when they made their first sequel game in close to seven years (DA2), they tried to blow the doors off the hinges with how different it could be... and did a lot of the same with ME2 and ME3 (although to a lesser degree). 

So I guess you could say Bioware has a model... but that model is one of "change, change, change" with the exception of (usually) having companions. Which ARE Bioware's trademark now.

[Fast Jimmy]

Ponendus wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So who will make BioWare games when BioWare itself tanks?!?!?!

CDProjekt. 

Assuming the Cyberpunk 2078 IP hits the ground running, they could become a dual-IP RPG developer that would safeguard the future balance of the universe for the years to come.

Until I win the lottery, I guess.

Actually Cyberpunk could be an IP that comes close the 'BioWare formula' from what I have read about it. Only time will tell though. I agree with you that CDProjekt is probably the closest there is though, although I really dislike fixed protagonists that offer no flexibility like with the Witcher (although I understand they had to do that with the Witcher franchise as it is based on established works).

I agree, it is possible. I don't think they plan of having a set protag and, given how most ShadowRun-esque genres work, you usually have a posse to run with, so I'd say its quite possible we'll get companions.

You have to admit - given that the Witcher was originally ran on the NWN kit, they have come a LONG way in a short amount of time. I can see them only continuing to grow into a more season RPG developer.

[slimgrin]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

CDProjekt. 

Assuming the Cyberpunk 2078 IP hits the ground running, they could become a dual-IP RPG developer that would safeguard the future balance of the universe for the years to come.

Until I win the lottery, I guess.

Multi-person parties? Game world strongly grounded in reality (meaning, not having five different type of crazy fantastic monsters just in the sewers)? Protagonist definition?

I enjoy The Witcher, but they're a different beast than Bioware. Though we'll have to see what happens with Cyberpunk--they haven't released any real details about it.

2077 has its roots in an old PnP game with volumes of material. CDPR said they want to stay true to that heritage, which means the game will likely have more in common with a Bioware ( traditional) style RPG than The Witcher does. Multiplayer/co-op elements, extensive character customization, gender selection, etc. No word on companions yet, but it will likely not be a party-based game. The core will be SP with a strong story set in an open world.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 janvier 2014 - 02:22 .

[Fast Jimmy]

slimgrin wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

CDProjekt. 

Assuming the Cyberpunk 2078 IP hits the ground running, they could become a dual-IP RPG developer that would safeguard the future balance of the universe for the years to come.

Until I win the lottery, I guess.

Multi-person parties? Game world strongly grounded in reality (meaning, not having five different type of crazy fantastic monsters just in the sewers)? Protagonist definition?

I enjoy The Witcher, but they're a different beast than Bioware. Though we'll have to see what happens with Cyberpunk--they haven't released any real details about it.

2077 has its roots in an old PnP game with volumes of material. CDPR said they want to stay true to that heritage, which means the game will likely have more in common with a Bioware ( traditional) style RPG than The Witcher does. Multiplayer/co-op elements, extensive character customization, gender selection, etc. No word on companions yet, but it will likely not be a party-based game. The core will be SP with a strong story set in an open world.

They are opting out of having parties for MP?

Ugh. My entire view on the IP just soured SIGNIFICANTLY.

[slimgrin]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

CDProjekt. 

Assuming the Cyberpunk 2078 IP hits the ground running, they could become a dual-IP RPG developer that would safeguard the future balance of the universe for the years to come.

Until I win the lottery, I guess.

Multi-person parties? Game world strongly grounded in reality (meaning, not having five different type of crazy fantastic monsters just in the sewers)? Protagonist definition?

I enjoy The Witcher, but they're a different beast than Bioware. Though we'll have to see what happens with Cyberpunk--they haven't released any real details about it.

2077 has its roots in an old PnP game with volumes of material. CDPR said they want to stay true to that heritage, which means the game will likely have more in common with a Bioware ( traditional) style RPG than The Witcher does. Multiplayer/co-op elements, extensive character customization, gender selection, etc. No word on companions yet, but it will likely not be a party-based game. The core will be SP with a strong story set in an open world.

They are opting out of having parties for MP?

Ugh. My entire view on the IP just soured SIGNIFICANTLY.

There are no specifics yet on what the MP components will be, but knowing CDPR, my guess is some form of co-op in story mode. Just specualtion though. On the forums, some people want companions, others don't. It's kind of a contentious issue. I really doubt it'll be a 'gather your companions' type of game.

[metatheurgist]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
So I guess you could say Bioware has a model... but that model is one of "change, change, change" with the exception of (usually) having companions. Which ARE Bioware's trademark now.

I think you can say that like most companies they change to try to make more money. Simplified gameplay, action mechanics, 3rd/1st person perspectives, their own IP, moving away from turn based is all aimed at hitting a broader market and not sharing profits. Coincidentally it's also moving them away from what they used to be know for -> old school RPGs.

[Fast Jimmy]

slimgrin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

CDProjekt. 

Assuming the Cyberpunk 2078 IP hits the ground running, they could become a dual-IP RPG developer that would safeguard the future balance of the universe for the years to come.

Until I win the lottery, I guess.

Multi-person parties? Game world strongly grounded in reality (meaning, not having five different type of crazy fantastic monsters just in the sewers)? Protagonist definition?

I enjoy The Witcher, but they're a different beast than Bioware. Though we'll have to see what happens with Cyberpunk--they haven't released any real details about it.

2077 has its roots in an old PnP game with volumes of material. CDPR said they want to stay true to that heritage, which means the game will likely have more in common with a Bioware ( traditional) style RPG than The Witcher does. Multiplayer/co-op elements, extensive character customization, gender selection, etc. No word on companions yet, but it will likely not be a party-based game. The core will be SP with a strong story set in an open world.

They are opting out of having parties for MP?

Ugh. My entire view on the IP just soured SIGNIFICANTLY.

There are no specifics yet on what the MP components will be, but knowing CDPR, my guess is some form of co-op in story mode. Just specualtion though. On the forums, some people want companions, others don't. It's kind of a contentious issue. I really doubt it'll be a 'gather your companions' type of game.

I don't mind a game not having companions. I just really dislike the idea of co-op as a driving factor in order to best take down enemy groups.

I spend too much of my day trying to herd cats and get people to do what they need to do to make my attempts in life successful. Doing something similar for a video game drives me crazy.

[In Exile]

Well, arguably that's exactly what Obsidian is doing with PE... just with an earlier Bioware game. And also arguably what Obsidian did with KoTOR 2 and NWN 2.

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

DA:O was an attempt to reclaim the glory of BG (and it was successful). ME was an attempt to do space again, but in their own universe.

Generally I agree, but one nitpick: 

ME was an attempt to do their own space IP based on KoTOR, like DA:O was an attempt to do a fantasy IP based on BG. Fans have a kind of unholy worship for BG2 that Bioware really doesn't seem to share. And if we actually compare DA:O to BG2 or KoTOR, it's way more like KoTOR and really unlike BG2.

Modifié par In Exile, 03 janvier 2014 - 03:32 .

[Ponendus]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You have to admit - given that the Witcher was originally ran on the NWN kit, they have come a LONG way in a short amount of time. I can see them only continuing to grow into a more season RPG developer.

Absolutely. I have very high hopes for them.

[mybudgee]

Because they heard about Dragon Age II

[Rusty Sandusky]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

i actually like Hot Pursuit.

It's a remake. Now, admittedly, it's a decent game in it's own right, but Criterion started off their career with two remakes. That's insipid.

Not to mention that the remakes are inferior to their original games (NFS III is my favourite Need for Speed) and I think the new Most Wanted sucks.

[Endurium]

When Bioware started out they used the relatively stable D&D franchise to make games, so they could focus on their campaign and characters and not worry so much about rules and lore.

Whey they did ME they used what had already been done in Starflight, moved it to 3D and incorporated their own story and characters. Again didn't have to worry about the gameplay formula too much.

I enjoy Bioware's games, for the most part, especially since I have their earlier works to play and am not stuck solely with DA2 and ME3. The EE versions of BG1 and BG2 will go a ways toward keeping those original Bioware games alive in peoples' minds.

Thankfully many developers prefer to do their own thing, and it gives us variety. We have Bioware, we have Bethesda, we have CDPR, we have Obsidian, etc.

[Arcian]

Ponendus wrote...

So something came up while I was chatting to some friends...
Why aren't there games out there that at least remotely look like the 'BioWare formula'?

When you think about it, there a dozen 'WoW-clones', heaps of 'Open-world sandbox' style RPG's, a billion shooters etc.

BioWare does party-based, sweeping-story, epic cinematic, romance subplots and deep meaningful lore. All of these features are obviously very popular and I am just surprised there aren't more games like it. Is there any other studio that has tried to emulate the BioWare formula? Have I just missed it?

It came up because I was snooping around for something to play and I can't find anything remotely like what BioWare does. There is always something big missing like Skyrim not having a party and companions, or The Witcher having a fixed character (who I just don't like playing for some reason).

Is it too expensive to create or something? I dunno.
 

It's not lucrative enough.

[naughty99]

Ponendus wrote...

So something came up while I was chatting to some friends...
Why aren't there games out there that at least remotely look like the 'BioWare formula'?

 

It's expensive to record a lot of alternate dialogue tracks for various characters and challenging to pull off good writing for a compelling narrative.

Modifié par naughty99, 03 janvier 2014 - 06:16 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

In Silver Age of Bioware, Obsidian used it. In Rusty Iron Age of Bioware (DA2 - ME3) no one dares to use Bioware's formula.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

ME was an attempt to do their own space IP based on KoTOR, like DA:O was an attempt to do a fantasy IP based on BG. Fans have a kind of unholy worship for BG2 that Bioware really doesn't seem to share. And if we actually compare DA:O to BG2 or KoTOR, it's way more like KoTOR and really unlike BG2.

I think the italed is more of a general phenomenon, though BG2 is the most acute case.

[RedArmyShogun]

Because they don't want the Call of Duty player base?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

'Hot Pursuit' was literally NFS 6. NFS 5 was 'Porsche'. I started with NFS 4 and it was much better than NFS 3 that my cousin had.