136 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Hrungr wrote...
On the surface you might just assume so, but why move to limited health recovery, no regeneration and limited potions only to have unlimited, free healing available through the mage? Unless they change how spell-based healing works, limiting it somehow, It just winds up being health regeneration in the end anyway.

So tell me - will a mage be able to cast if she is worn out, exhausted of her mana?  So where is her "free healing" ability then and there?  If in the heat of the battle, there are no more mana potions or I forgot to plan ahead and carry them with me, what happens then?  Where is this so called unlimited, free healing through the mage?  

Modifié par spirosz, 04 janvier 2014 - 07:59 .

[Hrungr]

spirosz wrote...

Hrungr wrote...
On the surface you might just assume so, but why move to limited health recovery, no regeneration and limited potions only to have unlimited, free healing available through the mage? Unless they change how spell-based healing works, limiting it somehow, It just winds up being health regeneration in the end anyway.

So tell me - will a mage be able to cast if she is worn out, exhausted of her mana?  So where is her "free healing" ability then and there?  If in the heat of the battle, there are no more mana potions or I forgot to plan ahead and carry them with me, what happens then?  Where is this so called unlimited, free healing through the mage? 

Mana regenerates. So win the fight or flee, you can simply spell-heal everyone back up to full health in preperation for the next fight.

[spirosz]

Hrungr wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Hrungr wrote...
On the surface you might just assume so, but why move to limited health recovery, no regeneration and limited potions only to have unlimited, free healing available through the mage? Unless they change how spell-based healing works, limiting it somehow, It just winds up being health regeneration in the end anyway. 

So tell me - will a mage be able to cast if she is worn out, exhausted of her mana?  So where is her "free healing" ability then and there?  If in the heat of the battle, there are no more mana potions or I forgot to plan ahead and carry them with me, what happens then?  Where is this so called unlimited, free healing through the mage? 

Mana regenerates. So win the fight or flee, you can simply spell-heal everyone back up to full health in preperation for the next fight.

...over time yes, but when there is none and you're in a position where you are losing the fight, you'll more than likely get plowed. And full healing everyone after combat or fleeing is a problem because? That is no different than fleeing and spamming potions again.

Modifié par spirosz, 04 janvier 2014 - 08:12 .

[spirosz]

Also, you're acting as if the MP regenerates at a tremendously rapid rate, unless you have the gear to make it so - do you expect a level one mage to be able to regenerate their magic to the extremes where they can spam healing?

[Pasquale1234]

Hrungr wrote...

Mana regenerates. So win the fight or flee, you can simply spell-heal everyone back up to full health in preperation for the next fight.

That'd be a very different mechanic for DA - to be able to flee from battle.

Also, we don't know if we will see full mana regen post-battle, so there may be some cost associated with healing spells.

[spirosz]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

Mana regenerates. So win the fight or flee, you can simply spell-heal everyone back up to full health in preperation for the next fight.

That'd be a very different mechanic for DA - to be able to flee from battle.

Also, we don't know if we will see full mana regen post-battle, so there may be some cost associated with healing spells.

Exactly - 

spirosz wrote...

I would suggest waiting to see actual gameplay (and I mean final build) before expecting too much of a particular element to play a role.

[EmperorSahlertz]

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

[spirosz]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

We don't know, that is the thing.  

That is why I want to see gameplay before any of this is really discussed in detail.  

Modifié par spirosz, 04 janvier 2014 - 08:31 .

[The Baconer]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

I'm guessing that is probably the purpose. IIRC, it's been said that each class has talents that will be important during gameplay, so for better or worse it seems to be encouraging more balanced parties, as opposed to 4 warriors, 3 mages and x, 3 rogues and x etc.

[Hrungr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

Exactly.

[Spectre slayer]

spirosz wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

Mana regenerates. So win the fight or flee, you can simply spell-heal everyone back up to full health in preperation for the next fight.

That'd be a very different mechanic for DA - to be able to flee from battle.

Also, we don't know if we will see full mana regen post-battle, so there may be some cost associated with healing spells.

Exactly - 

spirosz wrote...

I would suggest waiting to see actual gameplay (and I mean final build) before expecting too much of a particular element to play a role.

Pretty much this, all they said was that it will regain and that more details will come at some point which makes me think there's a lot more to it.

Also there is health regain but it's tied to the difficulty you're playing on and I don't think any difficulty has outright full regain though there will be an toggle for that if you want to play like that. 

For example you're playing on normal and your threshold is 25% and you have 30% health than you will not heal any further then that automatically since you're over your threshold, but if you have like 10% health left you will heal back to your threshold of x let' stick with 25% for this example.

Right now they haven't given out the exact thresholds but they did talk about it on Darrah's Twitter.

mobile.twitter.com/BioMarkDarrah/status/374622005552631808

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 04 janvier 2014 - 08:50 .

[spirosz]

Ah see, interesting.

[Fast Jimmy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

Healing could be done by characters others than a Mage. 

A rogue or  could "dress wounds" or perform first aid, or what have you. Bards could sing and Reavers could sacrifice health to transfer it to another member, etc.

It only forces a Mage into every party if they arbitrarily keep Mages as the only healers. 

[Pasquale1234]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

If the supply of mana is also restricted (not completely regenerated post-battle), it introduces more resource management decisions for the player.

Health, stamina, mana - are all resources used in battle, and if they are not always refilled immediately after battle, it can require players to use some very different strategies.  In the existing games, it is easy to spam spells and talents, as there is no need to conserve stamina or mana.  IME, It's been pretty rare that I have ever needed to resort to potions for stamina or mana.

So we would need to be more conservative, or at least more judicious, in our use of spells and talents.

[Hrungr]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

If the supply of mana is also restricted (not completely regenerated post-battle), it introduces more resource management decisions for the player.

In the gameplay video, we do see stamina and mana fully recover (and fairly quickly at that) both in and out of combat. Could this change? Possibly, but right now this is what we're seeing.

[The Baconer]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
A rogue or  could "dress wounds" or perform first aid, or what have you. Bards could sing and Reavers could sacrifice health to transfer it to another member, etc.

It would make sense for any character to be able to pick up wound treatment or first aid as a talent. Bards healing through singing sounds like nonsense. From what we know of reavers they do not seem to possess abilities beyond inflicting pain, suffering, and death in some fashion.

[Pasquale1234]

Hrungr wrote...

In the gameplay video, we do see stamina and mana fully recover (and fairly quickly at that) both in and out of combat. Could this change? Possibly, but right now this is what we're seeing.

It's a pre-alpha build, though - right?

I expect they're still tuning a lot of things.  We don't have much more than conjecture at this point.

[Hellion Rex]

Hrungr wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

If the supply of mana is also restricted (not completely regenerated post-battle), it introduces more resource management decisions for the player.

In the gameplay video, we do see stamina and mana fully recover (and fairly quickly at that) both in and out of combat. Could this change? Possibly, but right now this is what we're seeing.

In the demo, that might have been set up that way to make sure nothing bad happened, and they could keep it moving quickly.

[Medhia Nox]

I think you'll enter "dungeons" - which are a standard Bioware combat obstacle course - and in those, stamina, health and mana will have to be managed. Once... let's say - you save the town or the keep - then you get all of it back in "Explore Mode".

Or, Keeps will be places to regain stamina, health and mana and they want you to occasionally head back and restock (this IS a more old school style of CRPG - and no, I'm not saying it makes it better).

"I" personally like the idea of resource management - as it makes me feel more involved in the story.

No game I have ever played has ever made the resource manage so tough that I couldn't continue or something - so, the game remains assuredly beatable.

I think sometimes that people might be heading toward wanting video stories - not unlike choose your own adventures - that you cannot lose (yes, I know you can lose choose your own adventure books), but still experience a story based on your choices.

That, of course, is not really a "game" as much as it is a storytelling exercise.

I'd definitely play something like that - but, Bioware CRPGs are not that.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 04 janvier 2014 - 09:05 .

[ames4u]

Hrungr wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

ames4u wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

Can anyone point to me where Bioware has mentioned there being healing spells in DAI. I can't think of a time they've actually come out and said this.

In a game with limited threshold regenerating health and limited healing potions, healing spells (especially with regenerating mana, which we know is in the game) feels unbalanced. They would have to limit it in some way or you might as well have regenerating health.

It goes both ways and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to not have healing spells, especially minor ones.

Why would it make sense to have spell-based healing, given how they've restructured healing on the whole?

Since certain mages decide to follow the route of healing-based magic?

We're talking from a gameplay standpoint here.

So are we.

Just because it doesn't sit with you quite right, does not mean the healing specialisation should be arbitrarily removed. If this the direction you are taking, you may as well do away with magic altogether-or better yet, do away with any kind of healing whatsoever. For a gameplay standpoint you understand. It'd be like taking the rogue and removing their ability to pick locks, backstab, etc. Healing magic is one of the perks of being a mage. You can choose to go minor healing so as not to lose the potential to go full on mage rage in the other skills, or go full on White Mage.

I do see where you are coming from-but the players who choose to sink skill points in the healing tree are taking a risk because they wont be able to go for the offensive skills. Everyone has to choose how they spec their mages. It is no different to building up the skills and abilities of the Warrior or Rogue character so I confess complete confusion with the direction you are taking this.

[ames4u]

Hrungr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

Exactly.

I fail to see how someone else plays the game affects you. Not everyone chooses to make a mage
a healing type. If you do then that is a choice you as a player make. It is through no fault of
other players or even Bioware. It's a choice between White Mage, Red Mage, or Black Mage. Who are
you more inclined to have on the team?

Plus, Bioware will most likely restrict certain specialisations due to companion race and background
like they did with DA2. Anders could heal, Merril couldn't. (which didn't make sense seeing as she
was being trained as a Dalish Keeper) so even the argument of "They can make a companion a healer." 
stands up. It is, once again, a choice the player makes. You want it to be difficult? Don't teach any mage
a healing move. Bam. Problem solved.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Baconer wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
A rogue or  could "dress wounds" or perform first aid, or what have you. Bards could sing and Reavers could sacrifice health to transfer it to another member, etc.

It would make sense for any character to be able to pick up wound treatment or first aid as a talent. Bards healing through singing sounds like nonsense. From what we know of reavers they do not seem to possess abilities beyond inflicting pain, suffering, and death in some fashion.

Just like a Champion giving a Shout hurts enemies (physically, HURTS them) just from yelling, or how a Bard can sing and increase the critical hit rate (yes, yes... the thing that I need for surgical precision is someone blasting a song in my ear)?

There are all kinds of skills and abilities that don't make sense at all. Like an archer being able to shoot one arrow into a thousand. And the Reaver example I gave was just that - an example. They can change the classes to do or have anything they want. You could be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage in DA:O, but then this was made exclusive in DA2. It's whatever they make it to be.