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So healing is supposed to be much harder in DA:I This means my mage will go full blood mage


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#101
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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Just like a Champion giving a Shout hurts enemies (physically, HURTS them) just from yelling, or how a Bard can sing and increase the critical hit rate (yes, yes... the thing that I need for surgical precision is someone blasting a song in my ear)?

There are all kinds of skills and abilities that don't make sense at all. Like an archer being able to shoot one arrow into a thousand. And the Reaver example I gave was just that - an example. They can change the classes to do or have anything they want. You could be a Spirit Healer and Blood Mage in DA:O, but then this was made exclusive in DA2. It's whatever they make it to be.

Don't you bemoan all those things? Like the inquisitor using Stone Edge when he slams the ground?

I don't think it would be entirely arbitrary to limit instant in-combat healing to the purview of mages, really. Unless we're talking about something esle.

#102
DarthLaxian

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Fetunche wrote...

Mana does regenerate and there are heal spells. Health does regen but not fully the amount depends on the difficulty setting, resources will be limited so you won't be able to spam potions .


I can understand where you are coming from OP, i myself hate this mechanic, because it is - IMHO (at least in most games that had something like this) - mostly used to drag out the game and slow the player down, it has no real use and it's not fun in any way, shape or form (!)

If I really need to, I will use cheats in this game (normally I only cheat things like MONEY - because I hate being told that I am this super-powerfull character and then, when I look into my purse, I would probably not be able to afford the next meal (!)) if there are any (now you see how much I hate this mechanic - hell, I was crying tears of happiness, when they phased the old mechanic, with static healt (without any - or very very very slow - regeneration) out

It is IMHO a thing of the past, it's antiquated and very dated and should have not been brought up again...it will only make those people happy that always tell you how good it was in the old days (note: these people should IMHO toss out their state of the art computers, buy a computer from say 1998 and then buy the appropriate games (!) and stop pestering people that are not stuck in the past, which IMHO was not all that great => Graphics sucked, sound was not great either mostly...sometimes (but only sometimes) the stories were better and more detailed, but that was it!)

greetings LAX

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 04 janvier 2014 - 10:15 .


#103
Hrungr

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ames4u wrote...

Hrungr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?

Exactly.



I fail to see how someone else plays the game affects you.

You're missing the larger point. We're now goint to have significant limitations on health recovery, but *if* you allow one class to be able to provide full healing after every fight - it becomes an extremely valuable ability. Far, far more so than in previous games which had full auto-recovery after every fight.

Now instead of a game of attrition, with each fight wearing you down until you have to retreat to get more resources, you can fully recover after every fight, for free - but *only* if you have said class with said ability in party. It effectively becomes a false choice. 

But that's only if you don't place some restrictions on spell-healing.

Modifié par Hrungr, 04 janvier 2014 - 10:20 .


#104
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Hrungr wrote...

But that's only if you don't place some restrictions on spell-healing.


I suspect most of us are in agreement that there will be some kind of restriction. But a restriction is not the same thing as completely removed.

#105
FGT3000

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someone made soud so so easy to spam hell spells in combat or to exit from ingace combat rmbr overwhelmd and that you dont regen mp that fast in combat and heal spell cooldown.you may want to do battle tatics yus like they the 30 min vid showd

Modifié par FGT3000, 05 janvier 2014 - 01:17 .


#106
FGT3000

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oh and sorry about the bad spelling. Touch phone

#107
Deflagratio

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In Exile wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Definitely a refreshing change in my opinion. I'm assuming Health automatically regenerates to thresholds like in Mass Effect, with the lowest difficulty probably allowing 100%-75% Regeneration, and Nightmare disabling it outright.


Nightmare will most certainly not disable it (since that will create, at minimum, rendering problems with HP 0 companions). It's more likely an extreme version of the way the injury cap worked in DA2, where you lost 20% of your HP each time you were knocked out, to a max of 80% (on nightmare), which each difficultly scaling at 20% less. 

So probably nightmare only regenerates up to 20% of your HP or something similar. 



You're going to have to elaborate further on "Rendering Problems", because frankly I wasn't even talking about HP0 Status. Just passive regeneration from injuries that don't result in KO. I'm assuming maybe you meant or thought I was implying Companions at 0HP wouldn't "Auto-Revive" after a battle, which wasn't my implication at all.

#108
In Exile

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Deflagratio wrote...
You're going to have to elaborate further on "Rendering Problems", because frankly I wasn't even talking about HP0 Status. Just passive regeneration from injuries that don't result in KO. I'm assuming maybe you meant or thought I was implying Companions at 0HP wouldn't "Auto-Revive" after a battle, which wasn't my implication at all.


Apparently Frostbite 3 doesn't render the entire game world. So if the HP 0 companions lie somewhere, the game has to remember that they're there. That means that it has to keep that part of the world rendered as existing even if you walk far away from it, which the software can't do. 

I get what you mean now. 

#109
Deflagratio

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I don't think Frostbite is rendering entire worlds anyway right? Dragon Age: Inquisition isn't true "Open World" in the sense of say, GTA or Skyrim. They're large, partitioned "Zones" connected through loading screens. Probably more akin to linking Battlefield 4 size(Probably larger) Maps together with transitional areas at the borders, and giving them a greater sense of Continuity.

#110
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Deflagratio wrote...

I don't think Frostbite is rendering entire worlds anyway right? Dragon Age: Inquisition isn't true "Open World" in the sense of say, GTA or Skyrim. They're large, partitioned "Zones" connected through loading screens. Probably more akin to linking Battlefield 4 size(Probably larger) Maps together with transitional areas at the borders, and giving them a greater sense of Continuity.


Don't the ES games use a severely reduced render for areas outside of the immediate zone, anyway? That's the way most games seem to do it--load up the block around you and throw out what you've been through.

#111
Deflagratio

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EntropicAngel wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

I don't think Frostbite is rendering entire worlds anyway right? Dragon Age: Inquisition isn't true "Open World" in the sense of say, GTA or Skyrim. They're large, partitioned "Zones" connected through loading screens. Probably more akin to linking Battlefield 4 size(Probably larger) Maps together with transitional areas at the borders, and giving them a greater sense of Continuity.


Don't the ES games use a severely reduced render for areas outside of the immediate zone, anyway? That's the way most games seem to do it--load up the block around you and throw out what you've been through.


"Render" is kind of the wrong word, because the game (Your hardware) Is only ever rendering what's "On Screen" at that time. Even stuff immediately behind isn't "rendered".


The Elder Scrolls games probably don't do much different than common games with Level of Detail (LoD) streaming, but where ES is different is that have much more mesh work that can be loaded. Aside from the borders around the game, there's no space the player cannot occupy and so needs a mesh that serves as the physical "form" of the model.

What Elder Scrolls games that is radically different is keep much more detail loaded into memory. It's something that I think is unique to their NetImmerse strain of engines (NetImmerse with Redguard and Morrowind, Gambryo with Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV and Creation Engine with Skyrim). The ability to remember the (Nearly) Precise location of dynamic objects, such as player dropped items, no matter how far away the player is. Creation pays a heavy price for this unique ability though... As most people know, performance and graphics (Particularly animation) suffer because of the memory draw, to say nothing of potentially lengthy load times.

If I remember correctly, these netimmerse engines are also used in the Civilization games... At the very least Gamebryo was.

#112
Fetunche

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For some bizarre reason the devs have decided to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly **** about the good old days.

#113
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Fetunche wrote...

For some bizarre reason the devs have decided to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly **** about the good old days.


Do you not see the irony in your post? You're complaining because something isn't the way it used to be.

;)

Modifié par MasterScribe, 05 janvier 2014 - 10:30 .


#114
philippe willaume

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

One could argue though, that if they DO allow for mages to fully heal companions when out of combat, then why not cut out the middle man and just allow for full regeneration out of combat? What purpsoe, other than to force a mage into the party, would the removal of health regeneration otherwise serve?


Healing could be done by characters others than a Mage. 

A rogue or  could "dress wounds" or perform first aid, or what have you. Bards could sing and Reavers could sacrifice health to transfer it to another member, etc.

It only forces a Mage into every party if they arbitrarily keep Mages as the only healers. 


hello 
I think his rational still stands though
What the point of limiting out of combat regen if it can be trumped by skills/spells or going to camp somewhere?

as a side note, i think i remenber that demo mentioned special place to camp/rest?

Philippe

#115
MartinJHolm

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TipsLeFedora wrote...

MartinJHolm wrote...
In real RPG's  you really don't have healers or tanks, and the notion of threath as found in MMO's is an abomination.


Hey buddy, I just bought COD, but I decided to say **** it and shoot people IRL. I'm I a real rpg?

What does that have to do with anything, are you so dense that you thought I meant "in real life RPG".

#116
Kikidori

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(Just trying to figure out different possibilites with no mana regen here) 

 I think that mana should be a completely limited resource, potions and maybe a hub within certain castles and dungeons, like a rip in the veil allows you to pull out lyrium from the fade, like those lyrium stones in the deep roads and the fade from DAO. (Kind of like dungeons works in the Dungeons&Dragons MMO, where you have a place where you can stay and rest... ONCE per place per dungeon) 
This would mean, you cannot just mindlessly use the biggest, strongest, most expensive spell to kill all the lowlevel foes at the enterance, as this would severely limited your mage until the later stages of the raid of the keep. But have the mage's auto attack do about as much damage as the archer. That would mean, that a mage doesn't become a burden if it is out of mana as it can still dish out a lot of damage. In DAO, I could do this, just cast firestorm then /dance until all is dead, and if something comes close, use Mind Break and walk around and use Cone of Cold then /dance again. 
Another would be that spells are cheaper than previous games and with high enough willpower, you won't even lose 1/3 of your mana per encounter, but it would limit your damage output, but not the potetional. Since Quality = Quanity, (1*10 = 2*5), that would mean having a substainced damage potentional, rather than a highburst one. But in the end, you've done the same amount of damage

Also with limited Mana, we could remove cooldowns on most spells(Or have a gobal cooldown on all spells with like 1-2 seconds) , you could cast 10 crushing prison on all the enemies but then be out of mana and have to auto attack. Or you can cast 1 crushing prison, then maybe a fireball and Winter Grasp + Arcane Bolt, and then be forced to auto attack anyways. This would also, stated as above, make Willpower focused builds more useful, as you can have the same amount of damage per second as a magic build, but it would also have about the same %-cost in terms of mana. (One has 100 mana and cast a spell for 10 mana, the other has 500 mana can cast it 5 times, but each one also does about 1/5th of the one with 100 mana) This would open up a more creative play style with Willpower. Auto-attacks would still do more damage with magic builds compared to Willpower builds

While I'm not a game desginer on professional terms by anymeans. And I already know it is too late to change the mages balance by now. So my opinion is sort of irrelevant to the question at hand. But some of you were talking about it would make mages useless, so I wanted to post this just explain a way to get around it. 

If anyone has any opinions or confusions about what I posted, I'll try to explain in better, as I'm not a native english speaker, so I probably burned the eyes out of the English-speaking folks here with my awful, awful awful grammar. 

TLDR:
1: I want no mana regan except places of power where you can restore your mana once per dungeon/keep and mana potions.
2: I want willpower to be an alternative to magic in terms of dealing damage and versitily builds, while magic builds should focus on pure damage and destrustion but can't do it very often
3: I don't want cooldowns on my spells or abilites as I find it a very arbitrary form of limitation on games, rather a gobal cooldown. Like if I take a huge leap, it will take me a short second to do anything else. Chain-skills could be possible, like "Spell X won't have GC when spell Y is used" Example "Fire Weapons + Arcane Bolt, allows you to use Fireball directly after" or "Shield bash -> Overpowered "

I think that's it. If you find me an idiot and had several flaws in my ideas, please tell me, you can't solve a problem by yourself, you need feedback. 

Again, I'm not a gamedesigner at professional terms so I might have missed something critical, please point out that then. :)

#117
FGT3000

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there need to be cooldown on how fast you can spam a heal or any spell other wise the came may not present a good challence think of playing lol if taric cud stun till no mana adc would be in trouble.the purpes of the full healt (mana) regen after every battle is to make the game more tactikel in incouter like do i want to figth the dragon rht after a dungeon dive wht no heal resourses and a blood mage or sud i stock up and cet a healer mage.choices choices or if first you dnt suceed relaod save and try try agian.

#118
FGT3000

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there need to be
cooldown on how fast
you can spam a heal or
any spell other wise the
came may not present
a good challence think
of playing lol if taric cud
stun till no mana adc
would be in trouble.the
purpes of the full healt
(mana) regen after
every battle restriction is to make
the game more tactikel
in incouter like do i want
to figth the dragon rht
after a dungeon dive
wht no heal resourses
and a blood mage or sud
i stock up and cet a
healer mage.choices
choices or if first you
dnt suceed relaod save
and try try agian.

#119
Deflagratio

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Fetunche wrote...

For some bizarre reason the devs have decided to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly **** about the good old days.


Your concern is valid, it's something I mentioned previously in the idea of having Non-regenerating health but regenerating mana in conjunction with healing spells. It's essentially adding another "Step" to healing fully, one that, at best, uses a time penalty to coerce players to engage more intelligently, and at worst, is just mind numbing repetition. See Oblivion's healing model, where every player had regenerating magicka and a starting healing spell. Outside of RP or self imposed restrictions, nobody would ever [b]not[b] spam the healing spell after a battle.


Bioware has only ever elaborated on the design intent with their health system though, not the specifics, which probably won't be finalized until very late in development as it's tied to balance. As I understand it, the intent with their health system is not unlike that of Dark Souls, where you have to consider what you're objective is with each "expedition" so to speak, as each tiny mistake will add up eventually to a saturation of danger the player might not be comfortable with. The phrase "Pick your fights" comes to mind, as if your objective in game is to kill an extremely powerful boss (Say a Dragon) you might consider the dozen or so minor engagements along the way not worth the resource risk. Of course, if you have confidence in your tactics and ability, you very well could indeed carve a bloody swath to your objective.

#120
Mecha Elf

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Does mana regin? 

Modifié par Mecha Elf, 06 janvier 2014 - 02:47 .


#121
Hellion Rex

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Mecha Elf wrote...

Does mana regin?

Yes.

#122
Fast Jimmy

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eluvianix wrote...

Mecha Elf wrote...

Does mana regin?

Yes.


Do you have a quote? Last I had heard, they had not confirmed this. 

#123
Angrywolves

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If the OP wants to be a blood mage, then he can.
However the developers have said there will be some adverse things about blood magic/blood mages.So good luck OP.

Fetunche wrote...

For some bizarre reason the devs have decided
to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the
DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly ****
about the good old days.

Doubt us old school rpg types had anything to do with it.
We old schoolers can back Eternity, so we're not forcing anything on Bioware.My guess is it's part of them making it an open world experience,.:innocent:

Modifié par Angrywolves, 06 janvier 2014 - 02:22 .


#124
Deflagratio

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Mecha Elf wrote...

Does mana regin?

Yes.


Do you have a quote? Last I had heard, they had not confirmed this. 


Regardless of what the answer is at this point, it's subject to change. It does regen in the PAX demo, but these could just be developer settings for demo purposes.

#125
Siegdrifa

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I hope that harder won't mean more boring (lacking Healing designe mechanic).
DA2 was bad in that regarde... and i'm not a fan of "oh, but you have an alternative,... Healing POTIONS !".

I always found games that make us consume Healing potions more than drunkards emptyng beers on a friday night, a totaly retarded concept...

Just my opinion.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:05 .