136 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

Siegdrifa wrote...

I hope that harder won't mean more boring (lacking Healing designe mechanic).
DA2 was bad in that regarde... and i'm not a fan of "oh, but you have an alternative,... Healing POTIONS !".

I always found games that make us consume Healing potions more than drunkards emptyng beers on a friday night, a totaly retarded concept...

Just my opinion.

I think very specifically they wanted to avoid "Potion Spamming"... at least on the higher difficulties.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:39 .

[HurricaneGinger]

You're going full Blood Mage because healing will be harder?

And being a Blood Mage means using YOUR blood as well as others to power your spells.

Not sure I understand the logic.

[Siegdrifa]

Deflagratio wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

I hope that harder won't mean more boring (lacking Healing designe mechanic).
DA2 was bad in that regarde... and i'm not a fan of "oh, but you have an alternative,... Healing POTIONS !".

I always found games that make us consume Healing potions more than drunkards emptyng beers on a friday night, a totaly retarded concept...

Just my opinion.

I think very specifically they wanted to avoid "Potion Spamming"... at least on the higher difficulties.

I hope so, but there is a difference between "management" and "lacking".

I won't argue if this is the case in DAI (because i don't know about it), but i hope they fixed the problem of DA2.
In DA2 there was no potion spaming or heal spaming either... it was just plain lacking of healing mechanics.

IMO, health management shouldn't be "let if fall and do not give a damn because you are dealing damage" then "once it reach a low level, just replenish like a racing car stopping at the pit".

Managing health shoud be intresting and gratifyng. Analysing incoming damage, to choose wich "healing tool" is the most fited fot this case (light heal ? heavy heal ? HOT ? shield ward ? area heal ?).
In DA2, because of the long cd for each, i ended using what i had left to survive, there was no real choice in the end.
The only skill involved was to get a good rotation with each to mitigate the incoming damage regulary. But being called "potion" or "healing spell" or "magic ward" ...it made no difference in the end to me, they could have called them "tool 1" "tool 2" "tool 3" and "tool4" for that matter.

I did my first DA2 playthrough in hard (i mean, the hardest difficulty before nightmare), and i died only 7 times. I wanted challenge for my first experience (normal difficulty was total joke, so i changed it 30minutes after i started), but i could tell that the healing mechanic was a real pain because very lacking and plain, while damage dealing was a lot more manageable.

[Realmzmaster]

I do not know what is a "real" crpg versus a "not real" crpg.

I do know the characteristics of many past crpgs. Those games had non-regenerating health and mana, limited healing spells and limited amount of potions (both healing and mana). Some of the games used rest and first aid mechanics, but the party could not rest just anywhere. Rest in the wrong place the party would be attacked. First aid during combat was used to stabilize the injured member to prevent death especially if the cleric ran out of healing spells or mana..
Death in those games was permanent (unless the party had a large amount of money to pay for resurrection or a high level party member (cleric type)) who could perform the ritual. If a party member was knocked unconscious and received no first aid or healing spell that party member was dead. Some of the early crpgs did not allow for resurrection.

Wizards and sorcerers did not have healing magic only cleric type. Healing magic was the providence of the gods, therefore one had to be of a religious class to obtain healing magic.

Resource management played a part in the successful execution of the game. These mechanics basically changed with MMOs like EverQuest and WOW.

If one started his/her rpg experience with one of the MMOs then the above mechanics may seem like tedium. If you are like me who cut his eye teeth on P n P games like D & D, RuneQuest etc and early crpgs (pre-EverQuest and WOW) and some after like (Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance:Myth Drannor) then the mechanics are very familiar and welcomed.

Dragon Age: Origins adopted some of the trappings of MMOs in terms of regenerating health and mana. Dragon Age II took it further with all health and mana regenerating after combat unless the character was injured. I prefer more realism in my fantasy games, but YMMV.

[philippe willaume]

Deflagratio wrote...

Fetunche wrote...

For some bizarre reason the devs have decided to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly **** about the good old days.

Your concern is valid, it's something I mentioned previously in the idea of having Non-regenerating health but regenerating mana in conjunction with healing spells. It's essentially adding another "Step" to healing fully, one that, at best, uses a time penalty to coerce players to engage more intelligently, and at worst, is just mind numbing repetition. See Oblivion's healing model, where every player had regenerating magicka and a starting healing spell. Outside of RP or self imposed restrictions, nobody would ever [b]not[b] spam the healing spell after a battle.


Bioware has only ever elaborated on the design intent with their health system though, not the specifics, which probably won't be finalized until very late in development as it's tied to balance. As I understand it, the intent with their health system is not unlike that of Dark Souls, where you have to consider what you're objective is with each "expedition" so to speak, as each tiny mistake will add up eventually to a saturation of danger the player might not be comfortable with. The phrase "Pick your fights" comes to mind, as if your objective in game is to kill an extremely powerful boss (Say a Dragon) you might consider the dozen or so minor engagements along the way not worth the resource risk. Of course, if you have confidence in your tactics and ability, you very well could indeed carve a bloody swath to your objective.

hello 
but it's not really different is it.
Basically we replace going to camp to heal/spam healing spells/skills by navigating the map to avoid fight and going to camp to heal.
IE it is auto regen in more tedious.
phil

[Fast Jimmy]

philippe willaume wrote...

hello 
but it's not really different is it.
Basically we replace going to camp to heal/spam healing spells/skills by navigating the map to avoid fight and going to camp to heal.
IE it is auto regen in more tedious.
phil

One could argue that going back to camp/town IS tedious by design. And possibly even dangerous, if enemy groups actually move around and don't just leave a totally clear path for the hero to escape. So that the player can dread it and, instead, work to make sure they are as prepared as possible before going out.

Having NPC's warn the player, and explain some basic concepts of what could be needed to survive without these unexpected returns to civilization, would go a long way in avoiding the player moving forward without at least being told what they should be doing and thinking about. But I've always said that one of Bioware's failings is explaining their game mechanics in game without some form of interactive tutorial or interface.

[philippe willaume]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

philippe willaume wrote...

hello 
but it's not really different is it.
Basically we replace going to camp to heal/spam healing spells/skills by navigating the map to avoid fight and going to camp to heal.
IE it is auto regen in more tedious.
phil

One could argue that going back to camp/town IS tedious by design. And possibly even dangerous, if enemy groups actually move around and don't just leave a totally clear path for the hero to escape. So that the player can dread it and, instead, work to make sure they are as prepared as possible before going out.

Having NPC's warn the player, and explain some basic concepts of what could be needed to survive without these unexpected returns to civilization, would go a long way in avoiding the player moving forward without at least being told what they should be doing and thinking about. But I've always said that one of Bioware's failings is explaining their game mechanics in game without some form of interactive tutorial or interface.

I think the mechanic in itself is fine.  
I don't really like full regen after each fight that much either, but i am not in favour of replacing it by something more tedious and that has the same effect.

I think that having camp/town is a very good idea, if you can used it to plan gather information or as you said having NPC mentioning camp points so that you can plan and gear up for the expedition.
So like  in BG you could preapare the spells and the gear&potion-up for the very map/encounter your are going to explore.
With a little effort and immagination that can translate fine in  DA:I.  ie craft the specific item/rune/spell/talent combo that makes the fight in this enviroment  much easier than it would normaly be and/or  if the builds are versatile enough, may be specific gear favoring a given tactics (ie set of talents/cooldowns/perks that is being boosted)

But unless there are other factor that hit point number, from a health perspective as such it really does not add anything over auto-regen after each fight.

phil

[FGT3000]

i think there is a still a good chance that some enemy ncp will drop potions after a figth so you dont have to go to base so offten the potoin drop may not be every time but that cud be your small life line of getting back some potions.

[Deflagratio]

After watching the fairly recent Digiexpo (Largely the same as PAX) leak, I am starting to wonder if there is healing magic at all.

As a challenge enthusiast, I personally welcome this, but I know, and sympathize with the reservations that I'm sure exist among the majority. I think in this scenario the "Spirit Healer" would be more about removing negative ailments, and providing preventative measures, instead of directly healing wounds.

[Ianamus]

Surely if mana regenerates and health does not then a specialization that focuses on casting from hit points and draining the health of your companions would be much weaker and less viable than it was before, not stronger.

Modifié par EJ107, 07 janvier 2014 - 02:10 .

[AresKeith]

Fetunche wrote...

For some bizarre reason the devs have decided to add busywork and tedious game mechanics that were never a part of the DA experience to appease old school rpg elitists who constantly **** about the good old days.

How dare they make you do a bit more work 

And lol @ old school rpg elitists