224 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

I'm looking for your personal take on each of the 6 combat classes.

You can come up with as many resdesign concepts as you like.
You can cover single player, or multiplayer or both.
Feel free to comment on other people's ideas.

Also if you have new concepts for future squadmates, post them on this thread.

________________________________________________________________________________

Class Name:

Active Powers: (you can have as many active powers as you like, as long as each class has the same number of active powers)

Passive Powers: (you can have as many active powers as you like, as long as each class has the same number of passive powers)

Weapon Proficiencies: Optional.

Unique Melee Attacks: Optional

_________________________________________________________________________________

BSN's Redesign Concepts

My Concept 1
My Concept 2
My Multiplayer Concept

My Detailed Soldier
My Detailed Sentinel
My Detailed Engineer
My Detailed Infiltrator
My Detailed Adept
My Detailed Vanguard

Red Ceasar 97 Concept 1
Red Ceasar 97 Concept 2


Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Soldier
Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Sentinel
Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Engineer
Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Infiltrator
Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Adept
Red Ceasar 97's Detailed Vanguard


Soja 57 Concept
Soja 57 explores squadmates

Soja 57's Detailed Soldier
Soja 57's Detailed Sentinel
Soja 57's Detailed Engineer
Soja 57's Detailed Infiltrator
Soja 57's Detailed Adept
Soja 57's Detailed Vanguard

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 20 février 2014 - 01:04 .

[Abraham_uk]

Please keep descriptions of active and passive powers brief.

[RedCaesar97]

Fine. I have a little time.

This is something I have been thinking about lately, although it also requires a redesign of some powers and evolutions, something I will not get into here. That is a whole other post.

Here is how I worked it:
1. I use Mass Effect 2 as a base (1 unique class power + 4 other powers to be shared with other classes + passive "power" + 1 bonus power)

2. Substitute one power with a second unique power

3. Add two new unique passive talents per class. The idea is that both are locked, with only one (player's choice) becoming unlocked as part of an evolution of the first passive talent.


I think the hybrid classes need some work, possibly a redesign. I re-jigged some of the powers distributed to the hybrids but I am not sure the result is any better.


Class Name: Soldier
Active Powers: 

• Adrenaline Rush (Unique)
• Overkill (Unique). Improves weapon proficiency (such as weapon damage, stability, accuracy), but at the cost of spare thermal clips/spare ammo
• Incendiary Ammo
• Disruptor Ammo
• Cryo Ammo
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Combat Mastery (Base). Provides basic combat bonuses such as weight capacity, storm speed, weapon stability
• Commando (Choice 1). Improves weapon and combat proficiency, such as storm speed, weapon damage, ammo power damage and ammo effect duration
• Shock Trooper (Choice 2). Improves survivability through bonuses to health and shields

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Omni Blade stab (Heavy melee)
• Running Omni Blade stab (Running melee)

- - - 

Class Name: Adept
Active Powers: 

• Singularity (Unique)
• Stasis (Unique)
• Warp
• Throw
• Pull
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Biotic Mastery (Base). Improves basic power bonuses such as cooldown and duration, and weight capacity
• Nemesis (Choice 1). Further improves bonuses to powers, such as duration and damage
• Bastion (Choice 2). Improves survivability with bonuses to health and shields

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Biotic push (Heavy melee)
• Running biotic push (Running melee)

- - - 

Class Name: Engineer
Active Powers: 

• Combat Drone (Unique)
• Sentry Turret (Unique)
• Overload
• Incinerate
• Cryo Blast
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Tech Mastery (Base). Improves basic power bonuses such as cooldown and duration, and weight capacity
• Demolisher (Choice 1). Further improves bonuses to powers, such as duration and damage
• Mechanic (Choice 2). Improves survivability with bonuses to health and shields

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Flaming Omni Tool (Heavy melee)
• Explosive Omni Tool (Running melee)

- - -

Class Name: Infiltrator
Active Powers: 

• Tactical Cloak (Unique)
• Tactical Scan (Unique). Can provide a small damage bonus (or enemy debuff) to weapons and/or powers, and highlight enemies
• Disruptor Ammo
• Cryo Ammo
• Incinerate
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Operational Mastery (Base). Provides sniper time bonuses, spare thermal clips, weight capacity
• Assassin (Choice 1). Provides bonuses to ammo power damage, weapon damage
• Agent (Choice 2). Provides bonuses to power damage, power duration, power cooldown

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Electrical Omni Tool (Heavy melee)
• Running Electrical Omni Tool (Running melee)

- - -

Class Name: Vanguard
Active Powers: 

• Charge (Unique)
• Nova (Unique)
• Incendiary Ammo
• Disruptor Ammo
• Throw
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Assault Mastery (Base). Improves melee damage,  weight capacity, and
• Demolisher (Choice 1). Improves ammo power damage, weapon damage, extra power and force damage
• Champion (Choice 2). Improves survivability with bonuses to health and shields

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Biotic punch (Heavy melee)
• Ground pound (Running melee)

- - -

Class Name: Sentinel
Active Powers: 

• Tech Armor (Unique)
• Submission Net (Unique)
• Overload
• Pull
• Warp
• Bonus power

Passive Powers:

• Defender (Base). Improves basic power bonuses such as cooldown and duration, and weight capacity
• Raider (Choice 1). Further improves bonuses to powers, such as duration and damage
• Guardian (Choice 2). Improves survivability with bonuses to health and shields

Melee Attacks: 

• Elbow (light standing melee)
• Cryo Omni Tool (Heavy melee)
• Running Biotic Punch (Running melee)

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 04 janvier 2014 - 02:59 .

[Abraham_uk]

I love the ideas.

I'm also loving the fact that Vanguards are no longer the only class with running melee attacks.
The powers look great too.I'm also glad you're bringing back specialisations.

Just a few questions.

Question 1:

Regarding the unique powers.
Do you pick one or the other?
For example as an adept you either take singularity or stasis?
_____________________________________________________________________

Question 2:

Are powers such as:

Sabotage,
AI Hacking
Dampening
Neural Shock
Reave
Flare
Lash
Energy Drain

all bonus powers?

Or is the bonus power the choice between Unique Power 1 versus Unique Power 2 (Singularity or Stasis for the Adept)?

_____________________________________________________________________

Question 3:
Grenades:

Are grenades available?


_____________________________________________________________________

I have a few ideas of my own, though having seen yours, I doubt they match in quality.
You've really put a lot of thought into this.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 07 janvier 2014 - 12:52 .

[Abraham_uk]

My concept is a little different.

Though I have borrowed quite a lot from the post above.
I've tried to make hybrids more unique by removing shared powers altogether.


As for guns, I'll go for Mass Effect 3's weight capacity.
However.

Soldier gets much higher damage output with all guns (except shotguns and sniper rifles).
Infiltrators are the best when it comes to sniper rifles.
Vanguards are the best when it comes to shotguns.

Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels deal much less damage with any gun.

_______________________________________________________________________________


Character Card:
Every time your character levels up, they will gain 1 Class Point and 1 Additional Skills Point to spend.


Class Skills


Class Power 1
Class Power 2
Class Power 3
Class Power 4
Class Power 5
Racial Power (This is a unique active power that only your face can use)
Class Passive: Governs all of your class skills aswell as health, shields and melee attacks [pick 1 of 5]


_____________________________________________________________________________________

Soldier:

[/b]Active Powers: 



Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Adrenaline Rush: Slow down time for greater movement speed and rate of fire. [This power is named Devastator Mode if you choose a geth character]

Sprint Mode: Your running speed greatly increases. When running, enemies are more likely to miss when targeting you. In addition, all projectile based powers are guaranteed to miss.

Immunity: Increase your defence against all attacks. Briefly become immune to both melee attacks and all power based attacks. Also if enemies are using ammo mods, their guns will only deal base damage (ignoring the ammo mods).

Hunter Mode: This mode can be toggled on and off without incuring cooldowns. You will take more damage from all sources. However in return your weapons will deal more damage.


Incendiary Ammo
Cryo Ammo
Disruptor Ammo
Concussive Shot


Gas Grenade: Cover an area of the battlefield in gas blinding all foes within. Shooting at the gas or using an offensive power will set it alight. The flames will last for a period of time.
Concussive Grenade: A grenade that sends foes flying

Tactical Defence: The entire squad gains some damage resistance along with faster shield/barrier regeneration. This is a consumable that lasts 30 seconds.

Tactical Offence: The entire squad gains some damage bonus to all of their attacks. This is a consumable that lasts 30 seconds.

Stim Packs: Grants the soldier buffs to all of their attacks and their damage resistance against all attacks. This is a consumable that lasts 30 seconds.

Hex Shield: Allows the soldier to errect a hexagonal piece of cover. Unlike environmental cover, the hex shield cannot be destroyed. However it has a limited duration and long cooldown.

Fortification: This is a sustained ability. Increases the damage output of all melee attacks along with small buffs to damage resistance.



Passive Powers: (Pick 1 of 5)

Commando: This is a soldier that gains damage bonuses towards assault rifles and has greater grenade capacity.

Shocktrooper: This is a soldier that gains damage bonuses towards shotguns and melee attacks. Also has greater hitpoints.

Marksman: This is a soldier that gains damage bonuses towards sniper rifles and side arms. Marksman specialisation allows the soldier to make less noise when moving.

Heavy: This is a soldier that gains damage bonuses towards heavy weapons and more ammo for heavy weapons.

Medic: Every class has a medic option. The soldier gains additional medigel and can restore more health with their medigel. Also all buffing abilities provide their buffs to entire squad. Tactical Offence and Tactical Defence has increased buffs to the squad too.



Melee Attacks: 

Punch (light standing melee)
Omni Blade stab (Heavy melee)
Running Omni Blade stab (Running melee)
Backstab with Omni Blade (Stealth Melee)
Cover Grab with Omni Blade (Cover Grab)

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Adept:

Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Stasis: A field that holds enemies in place.

Singularity: A blue hole that drags enemies towards it.

Flare: A powerful warp projectile that deals lots of damage

Repulsion Field: This field is the opposite of singularity. Foes who are nearby will be thrown away. This field deals a lot of damage to foes who are close to it, and has the advantage of being invisible.

Pull
Lift
Throw
Warp: Pull, stasis, singularity and warp ammo can setup biotic combos. Warp is the only power that can detonate biotic combos. Warp can only detonate biotic combos. Warp also deals some damage.

Biotic Focus: Biotic projectiles have the issue of enemies dodging them. Biotic Focus slows down your cooldowns but guarantees that biotic projectiles will hit the intended targets. Also increases damage output. Like grenades however, biotic focus is a consumable.

Dominate: (same as in Mass Effect 3)
Cluster Grenade:

Biotic Mine: Biotic mines work differently to proximity mines. When enemies walk on the biotic mine, they will be covered in a blue hue. They will slow down and be more vulnerable to biotics.

Cascade: Cascade sends out a jet of biotic fog at enemies (similiar to flamer in Mass Effect 3). This deals heavy damage to foes. However this ability has its own ammo.

Reverb: Project a series of ripples. These ripples will make loud noises that will make enemies lose their concentration, lowering enemy accuracy. The ripples interferes with synthetic systems.

Annihilation Field: You are surrounded by a damaging biotic field. When enemies close in on you, they will take damage.




Passive Powers: (Pick 1 of 5)

Bastion: Biotic powers last longer. In addition, biotics will be more effective against foes with protections. Foes with shields can be lifted into the air. Bastions however cannot deal much damage.

Nemesis:  All biotic attacks deal more damage, but are only effective at close range. Nemesis' are glass canons.

Defender: The tanky adept. Longer cooldowns in exchange for more barriers and faster barrier regeneration. 

Deflector: Enemy casters loathe absorbers. Every power that is casted upon the adept has a 1/5 chance of being deflected back at the enemy caster. Deflectors have faster cooldowns in exchange for less damage output.

Medic: All classes have a medic specialisation option. Like all medic specialsations, the adept has greater medigel effectiveness and capacity. In addition, every time the adept pulls of a biotic explosion, the entire party recieves a small portion of their shields/barriers back.


Melee Attacks: 

Punch (light standing melee)
Biotic Palm Strike (Heavy melee)
Running Biotic Palm Strike (Running melee)
Biotic Strike ot the back (Stealth Melee)
Biotic Cover Grab (Cover Grab)


_______________________________________________________________________________________

Engineer:


Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Combat Drone: Same as Mass Effect 3 but deals more damage.

Sentry Turret: Same as Mass Effect 3 but deals more damage.

Flamer: A jet of flames scorches enemies infront of the caster.

Snap Freeze: A blast of rapidly freezing particles deals heavy damage and stops nearby enemies.

Arc Lightning: A jet of electricity that deals damages to enemies in front of the caster.


Overload: Zap enemy shields and stun organic foes.

Incinerate: Same as Mass Effect 3
Cryo Blast: Same as Mass Effect 3

Sabotage: Disable the use of guns for a short time. Sabotage is used to detonate tech combos. If foe is on fire, sabotage will detonate a fire explosion. If foe is affected by ice, then sabotage will detonate a cryo explosion and if foe is affected by electricity then sabotage will detonate a tech burst. If foe has more then 30% health then there is no grarantee that combo will be successful.

Dampening: Disable the use of powers and make foe more vulnerable to taking damage.

AI Hacking: Turn synthetic foes into tempoary allies. On organics, this interferes with their omnitools reducing accuracy and damage output.

Arc Grenade: (same as Mass Effect 3)
Cryo Grenade: A grenade that freezes multiple targets

Neural Shock: When an organic has no protections, they will be paralyzed and take heavy damage.

Shield Boost: Restore shields to the caster, and restore some shields to nearby allies. This has a longer cooldown than most tech abilities.



Passive Powers: (Pick 1 of 5)

Demolisher: Engineer's powers will be more effective at dealing damage.

Sprinter: Faster movement speed and faster cooldowns at the cost of power damage.

Mechanic: Mechanics have more health and shields. Shield regeneration is a lot faster. However this is at the cost of slower power cooldowns.

Saboteur: Engineer's powers will be more effective at weakening enemies.

Medic: All classes have a medic specialisation. Like all medic specialisations, the engineer version has more effective medigel and greater medigel capacity.  Unlike the other medic specialisations, if the engineer's performs a fire explosion, cryo explosion or tech burst, then they will have some of their shields restored and some of the allies shields will be restored too. 



Melee Attacks: 

Punch (light standing melee)
Incendiary Omni Blade (Heavy melee)
Explosive Omni Blade (Running melee)
Incendiary Back Stab (Stealth Melee)
Incendiary Omni Blade Cover Grab (Cover Grab)

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Infiltrator:

Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Tactical Cloak: Turn psuedo invisible and move around without drawing aggro. Small damage bonuses too. Tactical Cloak doesn't provide any damage bonuses to powers, but it does muffle the sound of powers.

Tactical Scan: Makes foes slightly more vulnerable to hits.  Tactical scan will also make allies focus all their attention on the scanned foe and are guaranteed not to miss when foe has been scanned.


Assassinate: This ability adds a laser to sniper rifles. The infiltrator's sniper rifle will not fire until a marked enemy is targeted. This means that when assassinate is active, the next shot fired is guaranteed to hit. If that hit is a headshot, then the shot will gain a massive damage bonus.

Marksman: Reduces recoil and noise output of weapons. Also provides small buffs to rate of fire.

Shield Bypass Ammo: Your weapons ignore shield gate, as well as providing head shot bonuses.

Armour Piercing Ammo: Capable of piercing amour and light cover. They can also weaken defences of foe.

Shredder Ammo: This ammo type deals heavy damage against health.


Flash Bang: Stun your foes, temporarily make them unable to use their guns.

Proximity Mine: Deal damage to foes within radius of explosion making them temporarily unable to use their powers.

Recon Mine: Works similiar to Recon Mine in Mass Effect 3, but uses consumables.

Sticky Grenade: A grenade that takes into account active ammo power, sticks onto a surface and deals heavy damage to single target.


Smoke Screen: Blanket a large area of the battlefield in smoke. This will cause some foes to suffocate and die. Foes who are synthetic or are organics who happen to be wearing a helmet, will merely be unable to see.

Decoy: Send out a projection of yourself to distract foes.

Phasic Jump: Whilst technically a biotic power, some infiltrators use this ability to phase through a wall to perform a sneak attack.

Electric Slash: Choosing this power will give the infiltrator a sword. This slash will deal heavy damage to a target in melee range, and also has a 1/4 chance of restoring the infiltrator's shields.





Passive Powers (Pick 1 of 5):

Assassin: Better headshot damage.
Shadow: Shadows can deal a lot more melee damage as long as they haven't been spotted by enemies.
Operative: Increases health and shields for Infiltrator
Agent: Increase the effectiveness of explosives.
Medic: Boost to the effectiveness of medigel and greater medigel capacity. The infiltrator also grants themselves and the squad a small portion of their shields back whenever the infiltrator kills an enemy in one hit.


Melee:

Punch (light standing melee)
Disruptor Omni Blade (Heavy melee)
Disruptor Omni Blade running strike (Running melee)
Disruptor Omni Blade Shadow Strike (Stealth Melee)
Disruptor Omni Blade Cover Grab (Cover Grab)

_______________________________________________________________________________________ 

Vanguard:


Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Biotic Charge: Biotically Charge towards an enemy dealing heavy damage and restoring some of your barriers.

Nova: Deplete your barrier, dealing heavy damage to nearby foes.

Nightshade Blades: Corrosive blades that deal heavy damage to targets. This is a consumable.

Berserker Rage: For a brief time the vanguard will be able to deal heavy damage with melee attacks.


Warp Ammo: Any foe that is affected by biotics will take more damage from warp ammo. This ammo will stagger foes. If you have an adept ally and they happen to cast warp on a foe affected by warp ammo, there will be a biotic explosion.

Sledgehammer Ammo: Uses biotics to send enemies flying whenever you shot an enemy. Foes with protection will stagger. Sledgehammer Ammo has very little damage bonus, and will slightly slow down rate of fire.

Polonium Ammo: This ammo type not only poisons organic targets (dealing damage over time) it makes any affected target more vulnerable against all attacks. In addition polonium rounds can cause unprotected organic targets to faint.

Shockwave: Same as Mass Effect 3

Carnage: From weapon, fire an incendiary projectile that will deliver heavy damage to foes.

Inferno Grenade: A grenade that deals heavy fire damage to targets.

Stasis Grenade: A grenade that can hold enemies in a biotic stasis field. The enemies in this field cannot take any damage whilst in stasis, but once they are out of stasis, they will take heavy damage from all sources. Foes who cannot be held in the stasis field will simply take some damage from the grenade's detonation.

Poison Strike: Alternative to biotic charge. This power doesn't require the caster to target an enemy. They will simply launch themslves 15 metres forward and deal damage to any foe they hit (if they hit anyone).

Biotic Spray: Spray a fluid on the ground. This fluid will start glowing blue and then explode. Timing is everything with this power.

Phase Disruptor: Expend your barrier to deal damage to foes. You fire a projectile at your enemies. This deals heavy damage.

Biotic Slash: Choosing this power grants the vanguard the ability to use a sword. This ability will deal heavy biotic damage to targets. This slash is the only ability other than warp that can detonate biotic explosions.




Passive Powers: (Pick 1 of 5)

Devastator: Increases the damage of offensive powers
Champion: Increases the damage of shotguns and melee attacks
Havok: Increases the rag doll effectiveness of all powers including ammo powers.
Athlete: Increases running speed of Vanguard.
Medic: Boost to the effectiveness of medigel and greater medigel capacity. Also, when the vanguard kills a foe with a melee attack, the vanguard and rest of squad have a 1/4 chance of having part of their shields/barriers restored.


Melee:

Elbow smash (light standing melee)
Biotic punch (Heavy melee)
Running biotic punch (Running melee)
Shadow biotic punch (Stealth Melee)
Biotic cover grab (Cover Grab)



_______________________________________________________________________________________ 

Sentinel:

[b]Pick 5 power of the following powers.

Tech Armour: This works like tech Armour in Mass Effect 3 though there is an evolution to make the tech armour work like in Mass Effect 2 (with it automatically detonating upon depletion of shields instead of manually doing so upon player command)

Biotic Sphere: Cast a sphere that will reduce damage taken for any allies within and increase damage taken for any foes within. Also the sphere will automatically detonate dealing heavy damage to foes within.

Supply Pylon: Provide ammo for allies and restore shields to allies.

Ballistic Blades: Fire a blade projectile at foe. This will deal some damage over time and have chance to explode.
Submission Net: Fire an electrified net that will trap foes without protections and deal damage to shields.

Armour Piercing Arrows: Picking this power equips the sentinel with an omni-bow. Armour Piercing Arrows use actual ammunition. They deal heavy damage to armour.

Shield Piercing Arrows: Picking this power equips the sentinel with an omni-bow. Shield Piercing Arrows deal heavy damage to shields and barriers.

Shredder Arrows: Picking this power equips the sentinel with an omni-bow. Shredder Arrows deal heavy damage to health.


Biotic Smash: Two biotic whips will deal heavy damage to enemies.
Lasso: A short ranged biotic pull that deals hefty damage to shields.

Biotic Orbs: Same as volus ability in Mass Effect 3.

Lift Grenade: A grenade that can lift foes into the air.

Draw Attention: This ability allows the sentinel to draw aggro, taking the heat off squisher squad mates. 

Ensnare: Ensnare reduces enemy accuracy, causes foes to panic increasing the odds of friendly fire and with some enemy types cause them to hallucinate (seeing enemies shooting at thin air is possible though unlikely). 

Disperse: This power will send out sounds to enemy omnitools that will trick enemies into thinking there is a sniper. Foes will investigate the area, looking for vantage points. This can work for sneak attacks, though not all enemies fall for this trick. Disperse has a secondary effect that can slow down enemy power cooldowns and weapon rate of fire.




[b]Passive Powers: (Pick 1 of 5)

Guardian: Increases the amount of shields that the Sentinel has.
Paladin: Increases the effectiveness of melee and guns at close range.
Raider: Increases the damage output of tech powers.
Lasher: Increases the damage output of biotic powers.
Medic: Boost to the effectiveness of medigel and greater medigel capacity. Also tech armour will be applied to entire squad. If it is detonated every squadmate will be detonating their tech armour simultaneously. Biotic sphere will provide greater buffs to squad and greater debuffs to enemies. In addition powers such as disperse, ensnare and draw attention will be more effective in combat.



[b]Melee:

Elbow smash (light standing melee)
Cryo omni blade (Heavy melee)
Cryo omni blade running strike (Running melee)
Cryo omni blade shadow strike (Stealth Melee)
Cryo Omni blade cover grab (Cover Grab)

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 07 janvier 2014 - 01:05 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Question 1:

Regarding the unique powers.
Do you pick one or the other?
For example as an adept you either take singularity or stasis?

Answer 1:
You can pick both. It would be like ME3 where each class had two unique powers (except Soldier which had three), and you could put points into both.

Note that my proposed system is still not as well thought-out as I want it to be. Cryo Blast for example should be a shared power but only the Engineer has it at the moment. So the system still needs work. Like I said in my original post, the hybrids still need work.

Having another shared combat, biotic, and tech power would probably make it work since each class would then get another power. My proposed Sentinel is still too Tech-heavy at the moment and the Infiltrator is too weapons-focused at the moment. 

- - -

Question 2:
Are powers such as:

Sabotage,
AI Hacking
Dampening
Neural Shock
Reave
Flare
Lash
Energy Drain

all bonus powers?

Or is the bonus power the choice between Unique Power 1 versus Unique Power 2 (Singularity or Stasis for the Adept)?

Answer 2:
Some would be bonus powers, some would become evolutions of existing powers, and others would be cut outright.

As for the specific powers you listed:

• Lash would be a good bonus power, although I would not classify it as biotic
• Damping only worked in ME1 mechanics. It would not return
• I have philisophical issues with Sabotage and AI Hacking, so I would cut them out
• Neural Shock should return as a bonus power
• I have philisophical issues with Reave and would cut it out. I think some aspects of it could be integrated into Warp.
• Flare could return as bonus power, or it could be rolled into a Warp evolution
• Energy Drain should be an evolution of Overload

- - - 

Question 3:
Grenades:

Are grenades available?

Answer 3:
I would make Grenade (or multiple types of grenades) available as a bonus power. 

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks Red Ceasar.
You have awesome ideas.

Anyway, what did you think of my class suggestions?
I wanted to outright remove overlapping powers, so that each class would be separate and distinct.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 04 janvier 2014 - 07:12 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...
Anyway, what did you think of my class suggestions?
I wanted to outright remove overlapping powers, so that each class would be separate and distinct.

I have read or skimmed through your post a few times. These are my impressions. Please keep in mind these are my impressions and opinions. There are things I like and things I do not like. I will try my best to explain my opinions the best I can. 

(1) You seem to have an eye towards multiplayer or at least multiple playable races with powers/passives as "Racial power" and "Racial passive". Interesting, however...

"Racial bonuses',in games, to my knowledge, is common in Fantasy RPGs. Mass Effect is not really different in that regard: Salarians/Quarians = tech, Asari = biotics, Krogan = violent thugs, Volus = money-grubbing merchants, Humans=awesome, Batarians=scum of the galaxy, and so on.


I have never really liked the concept of racial bonuses in games for various reasons, but ultimately I hate the concept racial bonuses tend to force you to play as one class or play a class a specific way, instead of having you play the class based on the abilities and/or restrictions of the class itself.


(2) Medical training, Electronics, Speech, Smithing

You seem to be trying to bring back some Mass Effect 1 elements. Elements I think that should be left behind.

Medical training: A neat concept, one that I am not totally against depending on how you want it implemented.

Electronics: I think this is a small expansion on ME1 where instead of certain classes+squadmates having unlocking skills, you have it so all classes have unlocking skills but you can upgrade them to hack better. Interesting concept but ultimately I think it is better if we leave this out. I do not mind hacking minigames, but making their difficulty based on a (optional) power/passive seems like a terrible idea to me.

Speech: I dislike having speech skills in games that I have put points into. Essentially I am playing some type of fighter whether it be a warrior/soldier, mage, or whatever in games. I should be putting my points into combat skills, not conversation skills. Unless I am a diplomat, speech does not help me much, particularly if I am going to be fighting for 50% of the game. Unless I can talk my way out of 100% of the fights including the final boss, speech skills are a waste of my time.

Smithing: Please no. Again, this seems like a fantasy RPG thing to me instead of a Sci-Fi marines in space RPG thing to me. 


Overall, this just seems like too many passive talents that are taking away from my combat talents, which is the true separation of the classes.


(3) I like that you are trying to make each class unique and distinct. The concept of having a choice of unique powers, regular powers, and passives is intriguing as it could lead to very different and interesting builds within each class.

In some respects, this seems like something a lot of fantasy RPGs do. Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. Having some very different-playing classes is always welcome, and the ability to have varying builds within the classes themeselves is also very interesting.

You also seem to have put a lot of thought into it, and tried to keep the classes as focused as possible, something the Mass Effect series and even my own ideas have lacked.

At the same time, since all class powers are unique, forcing the player to make a choice of "unique" powers seems superfluous. Especially since you may rather have two or more of those unique powers instead of your regular powers.



Anyway, those are my initial thoughts and impressions. I may need to read it again a few more times to wrap my head around it some more.

[Abraham_uk]

 Hmm. You got me thinking

1) Your concerns regarding the additional skills.


Okay. I've removed them.
____________________________________________________________________________


2) Pick 5 of 15 powers:

You're right it does seem a bit pointless to pick 1 of 4 unique powers and then have 4 other powers that are exclusive to said class.

I've changed the system so that the player picks 5 of 15 powers that are only available to said class.
Though some of the powers are a bit similiar, the 6 classes are completly different and have their own identity.

The idea is so that if someone only wants to play their favorite class (and doesn't care for the other 5 classes) then they can have multiple unique playthroughs in terms of combat.

____________________________________________________________________________

3) Medicine:

Each class has 5 specialisations to choose from.
Every class has the option of becoming a medic.
____________________________________________________________________________

4) Racial Active Power:

You were right about passive buffs lumping characters into certain roles, so I decided to remove the racial passives.

However I've decided to keep the racial active power.
This would hopefully give the player at least a combat consideration when choosing their race.

All 12 races have access to all 6 classes.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 07 janvier 2014 - 12:49 .

[Abraham_uk]

I've made some changes so check the earlier post.
I hope you enjoy Red Ceasar.
Thanks for the feedback.

[Abraham_uk]

Anyway, I've posted my redesign of the 6 classes.
Red Ceasar has posted an amazing redesign as well.

I want to see what BSN's ideas for redesigns are!

[RedCaesar97]

As another option, if you want to keep the 6-class structure and current power set, you could design it like this:

Step 1: Pick class (Soldier, Adept, Engineer, Vanguard, Infiltrator, or Sentinel).
Each class has 1 class-exclusive power: 

• Adrenaline Rush (Soldier)
• Singularity (Adept)
• Combat Drone (Engineer)
• Charge (Vanguard)
• Cloak (Infiltrator)
• Tech Armor (Sentinel)

Each class also has their own class-exclusive passive:

• Combat Mastery (Soldier)
• Biotic Mastery (Adept)
• Tech Mastery (Engineer)
• Assault Mastery (Vanguard)
• Operational Mastery (Infiltrator)
• Offensive Mastery (Sentinel)

Step 2: Pick from a list of all available powers:

• Soldier can pick any 4 combat powers (ammo/weapon powers, grenade powers, Fortification)
• Adept can pick 4 biotic powers
• Engineer can pick any 4 tech powers
• Vanguard can pick any 2 combat powers and any 2 biotic powers
• Infiltrator can pick any 2 combat powers and any 2 tech powers
• Sentinel can pick any 2 biotic powers and any 2 tech powers

Step 3: If any powers have been unlocked for use as bonus powers, select a bonus power. All unlocked powers can be selected.

Similar to ME1, you can unlock powers to be used as bonus powers if you use them enough times. This applies to all non-exclusive powers. For example, Throw is available to Adepts, Vanguards, and Sentinels in step 2, but is not available as a bonus power to any class until you use it enough times as an Adept, Vanguard, or Sentinel.


Expanded ideas:
1) As a variation on step 2, only choose 2 powers instead of 4. 
2) Restrict all classes to only 2 weapons maximum (minimum 1 weapon must be carried).

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 07 janvier 2014 - 02:06 .

[Abraham_uk]

I love this idea. Keep up the good work.

Very versatile classes.
Lots of possibilities regarding builds.


You can have 2 unique powers for your class.
Pick 4 regular powers (which can differ depending on your class)
In addition obtain a bonus power.


This is very well thought out and leads to a lot of versatility whilst still keeping each of the classes identities.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:31 .

[Abraham_uk]

 Following Red Caesar 97's idea, I've devised a concept for multiplayer classes.
Character Card:

Unique Class Power
Regular Power 1
Regular Power 2

Fitness: Governs how much hitpoints you have and your melee damage output.
(Each race has their own unique melee attack)

Stealth: Governs how effective you are at sneaking and the odds of performing a successful shadow strike
(Each race has their own unique shadow strike attack)

Class Passive: Governs your weapon and power effectiveness.


Please note that not all races, unique class powers and regular powers will be available to begin with. You will have to unlock these through the random pack generators.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Step 1: Pick Race

Regarding choice of races: 


Races that have more hitpoints will have a lower damage output 
Tanky races include:

Krogans (they do have powerful melee attacks but otherwise low damage output)
Baterians (they do have powerful melee attacks but otherwise low damage output)


Races that have a higher damage output with weapons and powers will have less hit points
DPS races include:

Asari
Salarians
Turians
Humans: [Available at start]
Geth
Quarians

Races that are very fast will only have a high damage output when undetected. They will have less hitpints.
Speedy Races include:

Vorcha (they do have health regeneration, but not much in the way of hitpoints)
Drell
Raloi


Utility Race:

Volus - Volus have low dps, low speed, and low hitpoints. However they have a unique ability.

When medigel is used by the volus, all fallen squadmates are revived.
When survival ops are used by the volus, the squad's entire health and shields/barriers are restored.
When ammo packs are used by the volus, the squad's ammo reserves are completly replenished.
When missiles are used by the volus, the squad gains a 20% bonus to damage output for 20 seconds.


_______________________________________________________________________________

Step 2: Pick One Unique Power for your chosen class.


Soldier:

Marksman [Available at start]
Fortification
Geth Hunter Mode
Stim Packs
Havoc Strike
Adrenaline Rush 



Sentinel:

Squad Offensive Boost:  Improves squads damage output. Only one squad boost power can be active at any given time. If a squadmate has a squad boost power applied to the squad, other squadmates will have to wait for that power's duration to end.

Squad Defensive Boost: Improves squad's defences against all attacks.

Squad Speed Boost: Improves squad's movement speed.

Hex Shield [Available at start]
Shield Boost

Tech Armour: Depending on spec can be a ME 2 style tech armour or a ME 3 style tech armour



Engineer:

Combat Drone [Available at start]
Geth Turret
Supply Pylon
Flamer
Snap Freeze

Arc Lightning: (same as flamer but with lightning) 



Infiltrator:

Tactical Cloak (same as in Mass Effect 3, but the damage buffs are not quite as great)
[Available at start]


Tactical Scan

Assassinate (only works with weapons that are not fully automatic). The next shot will have a huge damage bonus on the condition that it is a headshot. 

Omni-bow - Fire a powerful bolt dealing heavy damage providing it is a headshot.

Recon Mine - Same as ME 3, debuffs are not quite as big.

Smoke Screen - Cover an area of the battlefield in smoke. This smoke can be set alight dealing massive damage.



Adept

Barrier
Biotic Sphere
Stasis

Repulsion Field - the opposite of singularity. Any foe who walks towards the field is flung away from it.

Singularity [Available at start]
Dominate



Vanguard 

Sprint Mode: For a short while, the vanguard's running speed is greatly increased.
[Available at start]

Berserker Mode: For a short while the vanguard's melee damage is greatly increased.

Phase Disruptor
Nova
Poison Strike
Biotic Charge

_______________________________________________________________________________


Step 3: Pick 2 regular powers for your chosen class


Soldier: Pick 2 combat powers
Sentinel: Pick 1 biotic power and 1 tech power
Engineer: Pick 2 tech powers
Infiltrator: Pick 1 combat power and 1 tech power
Adept: Pick 2 biotic powers
Vanguard: Pick 1 combat power and 1 biotic power




Regular Combat Powers:

Concussive Shot [Available at start]
Carnage
Proximity Mine [Available at start]
Submission Net
Ballistic Blades
Nightshade Blades

Shield Piercing Blades  -(similiar to ballistic blades but deals heavy damage to shields)
Armour Piercing Blades - (similiar to ballistic blades but deals heavy damage to armour)

Cain Trip Mine
Sticky Grenades
Frag Grenades [Available at start]
Multi-Frag Grenades 

Concussive Grenades - Grenades that send foes flying

Flash Bang Grenades - Same as Kasumi's power in Mass Effect 2

Shield Spray - Weapon fire uses up barrier instead of ammo. This deals extra damage. Can be toggled on or off.



Regular Tech Powers:

Overload
Incinerate
Cryo Blast
Energy Drain

Sabotage - Same as in Mass Effect 3 but without the AI Hacking effects

AI Hacking - Same as in Mass Effect 2

Dampening - Makes a target unable to cast their powers. Also weakens target's damage output.

Neural Shock - Puts a target through intense pain. Now effective on synthetics too.

Electric Slash

Wrist Rockets - Guided rockets that deal massive damage to single target. Uses up consumables

Inferno Grenades
Cryo Grenades - Ice themed grenades
Arc Grenades

Ensnare - Messes around with enemy omnitools. This reduces enemy accuracy, increases recoil and can even make power based attacks miss. Ensnare also draws enemy attention towards the caster, taking the heat of other squadmates. 

Deflector Field - Cast a field that will deflect enemy powers right back at the enemy.



Regular Biotic Powers

Warp
Reave
Biotic Orbs
Pull
Throw
Shockwave
Lash
Smash
Biotic Slash
Biotic Focus
Cluster Grenades
Lift Grenades
Annilhalation Field


Warp Grenades - Same as Flare in Mass Effect 3, but uses up grenades.

Dispel - When an enemy has an enhancement power active, dispel removes that power. If dispel is aimed at an ally however, it will remove a negative effect from the ally instead.

[Soja57]

I've read both of your ideas, and they are awesome. Personally, I would make classes have powers unique to their class, so there isn't a class that shares powers with another. It would allow each class to be more defined in there own way.

I don't really like the idea of picking from a pool of powers for an entire class, as it easily leads to min/maxing builds. I would probably leave it to bonus powers only. Maybe later I'll post my own ideas.

Nevertheless, I praise both of you for the awesome posts and discussion. I haven't read these kinds of "fan creations" in a long time, and it brings back memories of when I first came up with my Multiplayer DLC packs.

[Abraham_uk]

Soja57 wrote...

I've read both of your ideas, and they are awesome. Personally, I would make classes have powers unique to their class, so there isn't a class that shares powers with another. It would allow each class to be more defined in there own way.

I don't really like the idea of picking from a pool of powers for an entire class, as it easily leads to min/maxing builds. I would probably leave it to bonus powers only. Maybe later I'll post my own ideas.

Nevertheless, I praise both of you for the awesome posts and discussion. I haven't read these kinds of "fan creations" in a long time, and it brings back memories of when I first came up with my Multiplayer DLC packs.

Please do post your own ideas.
You want classes with their own unique powers?

I have something in mind.


___________________________________________________________________________________

Mods, medigel and equipment

Ammo mods and grenades will return as equipment (like in Mass Effect 1)
Improvements to medigel effectiveness and capacity can be purchassed

___________________________________________________________________________________

Any class can equip any weapon.

Soldiers have the highest weapon damage in every category, except shotguns (where they're equal to vanguards) and sniper rifles (where they're equal to infiltrators).

Vanguards have the best melee damage. Are also very good with shotguns.
Infiltrators have the best sniper rifle damage. Are also very good with shotguns.

Adepts have the best biotic damage. Weak weapon damage
Engineers have the best tech damage. Weak weapon damage.

Sentinels don't deal much damage as they are a defensive class.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Melee:

All six classes have varients of the 5 situational melee attacks.

Regular Punch
Unique Thrust
Unique Running Melee
Unique Cover Grab
Unique Stealth Melee

Soldier: Omniblade
Sentinel: Cryo Omniblade
Engineer: Incendiary Omniblade
Infiltrator: Disruptor Omniblade 
Adept: Biotic Palm Strike
Vanguard: Biotic Punch

___________________________________________________________________________________

Character Card:

Class Power 1
Class Power 2
Class Power 3
Class Power 4
Class Power 5
Class Power 6

Bonus Power

Class Passive

___________________________________________________________________________________

Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush - Slow down time and increase personal weapon damage output. Includes some buffs to damage resistance and melee damage.

Concussive Shot - A powerful projectile that sends unprotected enemies flying and staggers protected foes. In addition concussive shot deals some moderate damage.

Stim Pack -  Restores health and shields to the soldier and provide a 30 second speed boost and melee damage boost. This power has its own separate cooldown.

Tactical Boost -  Boosts the damage bonus of entire squad. Also boosts the defence against all attacks.

Sound Assault: Weapons make a lot more noise. This can cause foes to panic, reducing the quality of enemy AI. Enemies will have increased odds of missing their targets and may even shoot each other. This ability has a short duration.

Shield Burner - This is a sustained ability that can be toggled on or off without cooldowns. Your omnitool expends some of its shields to deal extra weapon damage. Weapon ammo is still consumed.

Shield burner cannot be active whilst adrenaline rush is active.


Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.


Combat Mastery - [Passive] Affects weapon damage and all exclusive soldier powers. Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee.

___________________________________________________________________________________


Sentinel: Please note that although damage resistance powers can be stacked, the maximum damage resistance bonus is 60%.


Tech Armour - Can have an automatic detonation (like in Mass Effect 2) or a manual detonation (like in Mass Effect 3) depending on spec.

Hex Shield - Errect a piece of cover that is indestructible and lasts 30 seconds. Due to Frostbite 3 engine all other cover is destructible.
 
Shield Boost - Restore your shields and those of nearby allies.

Biotic Sphere - Foes within the sphere take more damage from all sources. If they are hit with warp, then there will be a biotic explosion. Allies gain damage protection.

Ensnare: Draw 100% of the aggro, making allies effectively invisible. This power also reduces enemy accuracy and damage output. 

Stasis - Hold an enemy in a stasis field. This can be a Mass Effect 2 style stasis field or a Mass Effect 3 style stasis field depending on spec.

Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.



Defensive Mastery: [Passive] Improve the duration of your powers, shorten cooldowns (sentinel has the longest cooldowns) and improves weapon damage. 

Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee. [Please note that the sneak ability is impossible when Ensnare is active].

___________________________________________________________________________________

Engineer:

Tactical Module - At rank 1 this power sends out a small stationary orb that distracts foes and deals damage. This can be evolved into a sentry turret, a combat drone, a defence drone or a medical turret that heals allies periodically by shooting at them.

Overload: Zapps shields and barriers away, Can be evolved into Energy Drain, Chain Overload, a jet version of overload (similiar to flamer) and a proximity trap version.

Incinerate: Sets foes on fire. Can be evolved into, an instant cast version, a flame missile, a jet version (flamer), or a proximity trap version.

Cryo Blast: Freeze foes with a freezing projectile. Can be evolved into an instant cast version, a cryo missile, a short ranged blast (snap freeze) or a proximity trap version.

Sabotage: Sabotages enemy weapons causing them to backfire and hacks synthetic foes turning them into tempoary allies.

Dampening: Disables a foes ability to cast powers, dispels any buffing powers a foe might have active. If casted on an ally it will remove negative effects.

Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.


Tech Mastery - [Passive] Improves the power damage output greatly. Has some buffs to weapon damage too. 
Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee.


___________________________________________________________________________________

Infiltrator:

Tactical Cloak: Turns the infiltrator pseudo invisible. Makes sneak attacks easier. Whilst tactical cloak is active, enemies will be drawn towards a decoy of yourself. Also provides a laser point to weapons, making the next shot deal extra damage as long as it is a headshot.

Smoke Screen: Can blind enemies within a cloud of smoke. If incinerate or warp is casted upon the cloud then there will be a massive explosion.

Tactical Scan: Enemies affected by tactical scan will take more damage from all sources. Tactical scan can also setup tech bursts which can be exploited by the engineer.


Flash Bang: Can make foes blind, make weapons backfire and has a neural shock effect that can cause paralyze organic foes.

Proximity Mine: When a foe is close to the mine, it will explode. This can be evolved into cain trip mine, cluster mines, silent mine and a neural shock mine.

Phasic Mode: The Infiltrator's powers and weapon fire can literally phase through light cover. In addition the infiltrator can ignore cover. This also increases damage output of the infiltrator. This ability can be toggled on or off. However, when active the infiltrator will take more damage from all sources.

Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.


Operative Mastery [Passive] - Improves the effectiveness of powers and weapons. Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee.


___________________________________________________________________________________

Adept:

Biotic Trap: When foes close in on the trap they take damage. This can be evolved into singularity that draws enemies towards it, a repulsion field that repels foes who are too close, an explosive mine or a field that slows down foes within.

Warp: A projectile that detonates biotic explosions when it comes into contact with a foe affected by biotics. It can be evolved into Reave, Flare, Biotic Orbs and Dark Channel.

Lift: Lifts enemies into the air. Can be evolved into: pull, lash, slam and levitation field.

Throw: Throws enemies away from the caster. Can be evolved into: heavy throw, dual throw shockwave and nova.

Deflection Shield:  A shield that has a % chance deflect enemy powers back to the enemy caster. Also provides the adept with some damage protection.

Biotic Focus: An ability that reduces biotic cooldowns. Adepts tend to have long cooldowns so the biotic focus is very useful. The biotic focus has its own separate cooldown.

Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.

Biotic Mastery - [Passive] Improves the effectiveness of biotic powers. Also has some buffs to weapon damage.
Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Vanguard:

Biotic Charge: Charge towards an enemy dealing heavy damage. This ability can restore barriers to the vanguard and provide a tempoary damage bonus to powers, weapons and melee attacks.

Annihilation Field: A fiery biotic field that deals damage to enemies close by. This field can be detonated to deal a close 

Whiplash: A biotic whip that deals plenty of damage to targets within close range.  This can be evolved into a dual whip smashes a targets, or two whips that attacks separate enemies or dual lasso that yanks foes towards the vanguard, two whips that yank two separate enemies.

Carnage: Fires a short ranged fiery projectile from weapon. This doesn't eat up cooldowns. Instead it eats up the ammo within the weapon itself expending the entirety of the clip. It is most effective with shotguns.

Phase Disruptor: Expend your barrier to deal long ranged damage with projectiles.

Berserker Rage:  Increase the movement speed of the vanguard. Also increase the damage output of melee attacks and make the vanguard resistant against melee attacks.

In addition Berserker Rage provides negative effects to melee attacks. These can slow down affected enemies, poison enemies (dealing damage over time), sabotage enemy weapons, disable power usage etc. The negative effects that Weave melee attacks dish out are completely random, however there is a 100% chance of at least one negative effect being dished out with every attack.

Bonus Power - Can pick one power from a pool of bonus powers.

 
Offensive Mastery - Increases the damage output of weapons and powers. Also affects sneaking ability, health, shields and melee.

Sneak improves the use of Weave and Warpath abilities. However when Berserker Rage is activated, stealth will be ineffective.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 10 janvier 2014 - 10:24 .

[Soja57]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Soja57 wrote...

Maybe later I'll post my own ideas.

Please do post your own ideas.
You want classes with their own unique powers?

I have something in mind.

I like the basic premise of your idea, though I think 3 passives is too much. Also, many of the powers feel way to situational or limited.

Soldier
Tactical Defense and Offense could literally be merged into one power. Having two pure-squad-buff powers feels like too much squad management. Also, assuming that consumables share one pool like grenades, having 3 powers use consumables limits the Soldier; running out of consumables makes half of the Soldier's powers unusable.

Shield Burner removes a defining aspect of weapons: limited spare ammo. Limited spare ammo is a big reason for carrying more than one weapon, which also factors in how a player builds their character. Also, it doesn't seem worth the effort to sacrifice your shields just for some more ammo.

I would personally change it so that Shield Burner grants a damage boost to weapons, but each bullet uses ammo and a percent of your shields. The percentage used per bullet is based on the weapon's magazine size, but a full magazine would use up a total of 50% of your shields. So one Widow shot would use 50% of your shields, while an Avenger bullet would use 1.666% of your shields. This goes along the same idea of Hunter Mode, sacrificing shields for damage output. And make it compatible with Adrenaline Rush, which would allow for more interesting builds and less complex and unneeded mechanics.

Sentinel
I'd say that the Sentinel is great the way it is. Ensnare seems like a great support/squad power, though it also seems almost like a death sentence for the player. It all really depends on how helpful the squad can be in order to use Ensnare to its full potential.

Engineer
Tactical Module seems pretty cool in that it essentially has 5 forms based on evolutions. Though each form should drastically differ from one another. Dampening seems like a pretty decent power, but casting on an ally may feel uncomfortable for a few players. Nevertheless, a great class.

Infiltrator
Regarding Tactical Cloak, does it create a decoy, according to your description? Assassinate seems like a very limited power, and somewhat redundant with Tac Cloak. Cloak already grants a temporary damage buff. Assassinate is too limited because it is restricted to certain weapons and headshots only.

Smoke Screen could be an interesting power, though it also detriments the player due to reducing the player's vision through the smoke. Don't know if Phase Disruptor fits an Infiltrator.

Adept
Biotic Trap seems like a very limited power at Rank 1, but its evolutions/forms are interesting. Warp and Lift forms are also pretty cool. The only issue I have with Throw is having a Nova and double Throw evolution. Biotic Focus goes along with the Adept's power arsenal pretty well.

Deflection Shield seems to be very limited due to using a consumable, and enemies barely use powers. Perhaps if enemies went to their ME1 counterparts where they power-spammed, it would be better. But then it would make enemy powers way to trivial. Enemy powers should be as much a threat as enemy weapons.

Vanguard
I don't know if Annihilation Field should go on a Vanguard. Whiplash sounds like a great power, and I love its evolutions. Warpath changes the behavior of weapons way too much, and breaks the weapon classes. Shotguns are meant for close range, while sniper rifles for long range.

I feel like Berserker Rage and Weave can be merged into one power, as they both affect melee attacks. I don't really like the ability to completely shut off sync-kills for only one class, even though I do hate them (just remove sync-kills outright).


- - - - - - - - - -

I like how you took ME3 powers and combined them into one power in the form of evolutions. I also like how each class has all unique powers, but it seems that as a result, some of the powers become too situational or limited in use. Just my opinions.

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the feedback Soja 57.

I'll have a think about how to improve these classes.
Coming up with 6 powers for 6 classes means coming up with 36 powers in total.All 36 powers have to be unique.

With the soldier, yeah I'd say it's the weakest. I don't blame the developers for adding ammo powers and grenade powers, because once you remove those powers you're left with Adrenaline rush and concussive shot.

This is why I can't wait to see what you do. If you're going down the exciting route of ditching ammo powers and grenade powers, perhaps you have something interesting in mind.

Infiltrators were made a bit challenging by me. How does one make a unique infiltrator when all classes have a sneak ability? Either I ditch the sneaking passive or I make some alterations to the infiltrator. Not sure what to do.


Vanguards Annilhalation field not vanguard like? Umm. I've always thought of the vanguard as a close quarters specialist.  However that warpath concept is just plain silly. It's the kind of idea one comes up with when they're running out of ideas. When I came up with warpath, I was really struggling to come up with something interesting.

Adepts, Engineer and Sentinels: They are the easiest classes to come up with powers for. There is a whole ocean of creativity one can draw from.


So about the combat classes? Many of your suggestions are about merging powers or ditching them. Merging Tactical Offense Boost and Tactical Defence Boost. Merging Tactical Cloak with Assassinate (forgive me if I'm making a strawman out of you, but I think that was where you were heading). Ditching Warpath is a given. That was a silly power.


Easy Changes based on your changes:  Shield Burner easy.
That is a very easy alteration to make. No merging and deleting powers. Anyway, I will delete and merge powers.

About stealth passive and fitness passive. Those can be merged into the class passives. So there is just one passive power for each class. Soja 57, you're a bit like Red Ceasar 97. You don't like those pesky passives. I can see where you're coming from.

They persuade players to spend points away from the active powers. In the end you have players maxing out stealth, fitness and class mastery and then only have enough points to max out one power. The result is a single power spamming character (pretty boring) unless there is an over abundance of skill points to spend.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Now It's Your Turn

However the kind of feedback you've given, makes me excited.I'm excited to see what you come up with.You do have a knack for coming up with class concepts. Epic class concepts!

Though given that you're designing 36 unique powers across 6 unique classes, this will be your toughest challenge. A challenge you will rise up to and excel no doubt.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:58 .

[Soja57]

Well, not all of the powers are entirely new. And I personally prefer ME2's style of 5 powers, for example:

Soldier: 1 signature power + 4 combat powers
Infiltrator: 1 signature power + 2 combat powers + 2 tech powers

Too much powers means some powers will be overused, and other powers underused, and ultimately means too much management between squad powers and player powers. I'm also pulling powers from my DLC packs, so I'm literally not creating any new content.

The challenge is knowing how to create a class that will use all of the powers effectively and with synergy, while allowing the class to be different from other classes. I redesigned many powers so that nearly every power is not redundant with each other; this is because I'm also going with ME1's style of bonus powers.

I'm almost done, just fixing up a few things.

Modifié par Soja57, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:57 .

[Soja57]

While reading the posts in this discussion, I came up with my own ideas for classes. I really like RedCaeser97's ideas for the passives and specializations, therefore I am not including passives and specializations in my post (it would literally just be a repeat of what RedCaesar97 posted). After all of the classes, I pose some questions that I would like answered about my classes. For now, here is the general idea of each class.

1. None of the classes share any powers; all of the powers of a class are unique to that class.

2. Powers without descriptions remain largely the same, barring some evolution changes (perhaps discussed at a later point, unsure)

3. Follows ME2 format, i.e. Soldier has 1 signature power + 4 combat powers, Infiltrator has 1 signature power + 2 combat powers + 2 tech powers; etc.

4. Most powers can be unlocked as bonus powers via completing challenges, with the exception of the class signature power.

5. Classes are limited to a maximum of 3 weapons, and all classes must carry a sidearm (an SMG or a Pistol)

6. Classes are restricted by a maximum weapon weight capacity, combat classes have a higher maximum weight capacity

7. Unsure about power combos, but they should be somewhere between ME2 and ME3 in terms of how easy it is to create combos. Tech combos are very limited, comparable to how the Adept was in ME2.

8. Unsure about grenades and ammo powers. I've never truly made up my mind about these two, but I think the best route is to include both of these as powers, otherwise I feel that they would be nerfed too much if everyone could use the same grenades/ammo powers without requiring talent points.


- - - - - - - - - -


Soldier

Adrenaline Rush

Concussive Shot - Fires a concentrated fireball-like blast from your weapon that deals damage proportional to heat generated in current weapon clip (i.e. more shots depleted in current clip yields a higher damage output)

Augmentation - Use a consumable charge that grants damage protection and weapon bonuses until purged. Purging grants a power damage and radius boost for the next offensive power used. Cooldown occurs upon activation and after purging. Slows down power use.

Incendiary Ammo - Has reduced instant hit damage, but increased burn damage makes up for the damage loss. This is to emphasize Incendiary as the damage-over-time ammo power and differentiate it even more from Armor-Piercing rounds.

Frag Grenades - Evolutions include sticky grenade and ammo amplification.


- - - - - - - - - -


Infiltrator

Tactical Cloak - Powers can still be used during cloak, but the overall cooldown of cloak will combine both power cooldowns.

Decoy - Spawns a hologram of yourself in front of you that walks forward in a straight direction for a duration. Detonates to damage enemies when the hologram's duration ends or is within close proximity of an enemy. Enemies are only fooled if the player is not seen while casting this power.

Tactical Scan

Disruptor Ammo - Evolutions include Phasic Ammo that partially pierces shields.

Remote Mine - Basically Recon Mine, but uses grenades, and the scanning has been moved to an evolution. (Was previously just Recon Mine)


- - - - - - - - - -


Engineer

Combat Drone - The only way to set up "tech combos", any tech power used on enemies attacked by the drone or within close proxmity of the drone will be granted a massive bonus to damage, radius, and duration.

Sabotage - Instead of backfire damage, Sabotage temporarily shuts down the weapons and powers of organics. Retains its ability to hack synthetics to fight for your side.

Incinerate

Overload

Cryo Blast


- - - - - - - - - -


Sentinel

Tech Armor - Activate to grant a layer of shielding that auto-detonates when shields are depleted. This extra shielding only returns when shields are fully restored. Can be manually detonated for a more powerful detonation, but undergoing a cooldown and deactivating Tech Armor. Slows down power use.

Shield Boost - Restores a portion of your shields and nearby allies.

Snap Freeze

Shockwave - Has an evolution that enables a biotic detonation with an emphasis on throwing enemies in one direction with strong force within a wide radius.

Stasis - Has an evolution that enables it to prime enemies for a biotic detonation.


- - - - - - - - - -


Adept

Pull

Warp - Makes enemies weaker to successive biotic powers by granting bonus biotic damage and force to the target enemy. Biotic detonation has been moved to an evolution, and the detonation has an emphasis on biotic damage rather than crowd control.

Throw - Has an evolution that enables a biotic detonation with an emphasis on throwing enemies in one direction with strong force within a wide radius.

Singularity - Uses ME3 MP version except it doesn't prime shielded or armored targets.

Impulse - Generate a powerful blast at the target location that damages and instantly pulls health enemies towards the center of the blast. Has a wider radius than Singularity, and has a unique biotic detonation that pulls in enemies with greater force, radius, and damage.


- - - - - - - - - -


Vanguard

Biotic Charge - Evolutions include time dilation evolution, and enabling a biotic detonation.

Nova - Evolutions include enabling a biotic detonation.

Lasso - Pulls an enemy so that they are within melee range in a ragdolled state. Deals damage upon pull and can pierce through shields and barriers at 50% effectiveness, but limited by range. Evolutions include increased range, weapon and melee damage bonus.

Stimulant Pack

Warp Ammo - Weakens enemies to biotic powers, increasing biotic power damage and force. Evolutions include hammerhead rounds.


- - - - - - - - - -


Questions and Afterthoughts.

-Judging from the description of the Soldier's Augmentation power, does it seem too complicated or need clarification? I have the same question for the Sentinel's Tech Armor.

-The only way to detonate biotics is with Impulse unless evolutions have been taken for certain biotic powers. The Vanguard and Sentinel can create biotic detonations with the proper evolutions, but are designed to be limited and weaker than their Adept counterpart. Some may view this change to Warp and biotics in general negatively in comparison to ME2 and ME3.

-Ammo Powers are more limited in the power arsenal for combat classes, most notably the Soldier only having Incendiary Ammo and Cryo Ammo being removed from the 6 classes.

-Unsure about keeping grenades and ammo powers, perhaps later I will come up with a variant of combat classes without ammo powers and grenades

Any input would be appreciated.

Modifié par Soja57, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:42 .

[Abraham_uk]

Nice work Soja 57.


A nice combination with familiar ideas and distinctive ideas. Each class has a clear role in mind without too much deviation from previous games. Which is nice since if you deviate too much then you have alienated gamers. So good considerations made there.

Okay. I'll take a look at each of your six classes and give you my thoughts.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Soldier:

Same role as in previous games.

Adrenaline Rush, Concussive Shot, Incendiary Ammo and Frag Grenades make a return here. There are some subtle differences, such as how sticky grenades are an evolution of frag grenades and how incendiary ammo has less instant damage but greater damage over time.

New to the mix are augmentation which reminds me of fortification power in Mass Effect 3. In improves your damage output and a good incentive to purge the power. Usually with protection powers I keep the power active at all times. 

This is the same as previous soldiers but with the addition of a new power and some tweaks to familiar powers. Some players may mourn the loss of cryo ammo and disruptor ammo, but for me I was never much of a fan of the ammo powers. They add some flavour to shooting (then again I'm more of a caster than a shooter kind of person).

______________________________________________________________________________________

Sentinel: 

Keeping in line with the samiliar but different idea, comes the sentinel.

This is a nice mixture of close ranged powers along with defence.

When you want to deal heavy damage you have your snap freeze, shockwaves and tech armour that can be detonated.

When you want defence you can slap on tech armour and use your shield boost power to keep yourself and alives alive.

When you want to grind enemies to a halt you have stasis.


The end result is a very versatile class with a lot of different tools to play with.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Engineer:

Of all the 6 classes the Engineer is the class that has changed the least from Mass Effect 3 to Soja's concept. However that is by no means a bad thing. The Elementalist concept that made it's debut in Mass Effect 2, completly changed the Engineer from a debuffing specialist to a damage dealing specialist with a pet drone.

Despite some changes Soja has actually stayed true to the Elementalist Engineer.

What I like is the way that tech combos work. You now NEED the combat drone to perform combos.
Anyone who played the Engineer class will know that combos are a very usefull way of dishing out damage.

So once the targets are primed via combat drone, you can detonate combos with overload, incinerate and cryo blast.

Sabotage provides some debuffing to enemies by shuting down their weapons and powers. So imagine Mass Effect 1's Dampening and Sabotage combined into one power.

There is more. The AI Hacking ability that was added to Sabotage in Mass Effect 3 is still part of sabotage.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Infiltrator:

It would seem that I wasn't the only person who thought incinerate didn't fit the infiltrator.

This new take on the infiltrator is a lot closer to what I had in mind for the class. A stealthy assassin with powers that fit a subtefuge playstyle.

Tactical Cloak and Disruptor Ammo make a return.
The disruptor ammo power now merges phasic ammo.
The cloak has kept it's powers during cloak feature but now takes into account the cooldown of the powers whilst the cloak was active.

Decoy provides a nice distraction (as long as enemies don't see you cast it). It has a nice detonation feature. When I think of subtefuge I think of traps and the decoy is now a walking trap as opposed to a stationary one.

Tactical Scan is a nice debuff that makes enemies targeted easier to kill for the entire party.

Recon Mine has a tactical scan feature in Mass Effect 3. Maybe this can be a remote mine instead with a large area. This might work better a consumable or a power with it's own separate cooldown.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Adept:

Another amazing class. Like the engineer this class is similar to its ME 2 and 3 counterparts. In fact the adept has been the class that has changed the least in the series.

Personally aside from tweaking from one title to the next, I see no reason why the adept needs to change drastically.


Soja's adept thankfully remains true to the series. The ragdolling specialist has the usual powers Pull, Throw, Warp and Singularity. They function in a similiar way to Mass Effect 3, even taking into account the biotic explosion mechanics of Mass Effect 3.

This new power however grabs my attention. Impulse. What a great name for a power.
It has the words "use me now" written all over it.

Impulse has a brand new type of biotic explosion (or biotic implosion based on the description) that sucks enemies towards it's centre. Exciting new detonation idea. Michael Bay would be proud!

The Adept is the same great class it always was. If anything, the introduction of the power Impulse makes me gravitate towards the class even more (pun intended).

______________________________________________________________________________________

Vanguard:

Of the redesigns the Vanguard is my favorite. Another amazing class.

 
The Biotic Charge is similiar to Mass Effect 2 and 3. (If it ain't broke don't fix it) being the logic here.
Nova is a nice power. Like Mass Effect 3 can detonate biotic explosions (but this time only if you picked the detonation evolution).


Now for the new powers.

Stimulant Pack is a nice way of restoring your barriers and health. You know what would make this power even more useful to the vanguard? If the Biotic Charge didn't restore barriers and you needed the stim pack to fill that role.

Lasso is a very powerful short ranged pull, which makes sense because of the vanguard's close quarters nature.

Warp Ammo is more powerful version of warp ammo from Mass Effect 2 & 3 and also has a hammer head rounds evolution giving the ammo type a much needed kick.


Sorry bad joke.


Good work Soja 57!

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 10 janvier 2014 - 07:59 .

[Soja57]

Thanks. It was fun but challenging putting together the classes.

And, just for a clarification...

Sabotage still hacks synthetics; but the backfire has been changed to enable more crowd control against organic enemies. Perhaps I should go back and clarify. I hope that will cheer up your thoughts on the Engineer.

Also, loving the puns.

[Abraham_uk]

Hey Soja.

I've taken your comments into consideration.
My earlier post (my second redesign) has had some alterations.


Powers such as weave and berserker rage have been merged.
The soldier and infiltrators have had some changes too.

Also there are no more consumables. Powers that would be consumables have their own separate cooldowns instead.

[Soja57]

 I'm not against consumables. In fact, consumables are a great alternative to cooldowns for powers. The only issue is having too much consumables on one class.
Unless the class has a passive that restores grenades like the Talon Mercenary in the MP, or a Supply Pylon that restores grenades like the N7 Demolisher, having too much consumables on a single class is bad. One or two is okay for a class; three is too much unless the player decides to choose a consumable as a bonus power.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I feel that I am being overly critical, but nevertheless here are my thoughts on your changes.

The classes are shaping up a lot better, though there are a few things to point out. Coming up with powers for combat classes is difficult in the absence of consumables/grenades and ammo powers, and is somewhat evident in your redesign of the classes. The combat classes still need to have a more defined focus, as some of their powers cause the classes to stray a bit far from traditional Mass Effect classes.

I'll admit that I am somewhat biased towards keeping consumables and ammo powers. I also see that you are trying to incorporate cross-class combos, where one class can set up a combo for another type of class to detonate. This encourages the player to take a squad with a variety of combat, tech, biotic skills. Seems like a good idea if done correctly (particularly the Infiltrator's Smoke Screen power).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Soldier: Sound Assault reminds me of the suppression system in the Battlefield games, which is a game mechanic that I enjoy. Basically, someone shooting in your general direction suppresses you, which causes blurry vision and lower accuracy. The overall premise of the power is great, granting an indirect form of crowd control for the Soldier class. Perhaps with a few minor tweaks, it could be a great power for the Soldier.

Infiltrator: Marksman is more similar to its ME3 counterpart. I don't have an issue with this, but I feel that it fits more as a bonus power more, particularly because of its cooldown confliction with Tactical Cloak. Rate of Fire bonuses doesn't really feel stealthy to me, as an Infiltrator would probably want to kill enemies with as few shots as possible. It also emphasizes using SMGs and Assault Rifles over Sniper Rifles, as the former two weapons benefit greatly from Rate of Fire bonuses.

Here's one thing perhaps to consider: Ammo Powers are passive powers that boost the damage output of weapons without interfering with cooldowns, and works regardless of the current power used. When creating a replacement power, consider creating a passive power that complements the class's other powers or primary weapon. For example, the Geth Infiltrator's Hunter Mode allows the Geth to see through walls, allowing it to snipe through walls with ease with armor-piercing weapons such as the Widow or Geth Javelin Sniper Rifle.

Vanguard: Now that I think about, perhaps reverting to Annihilation Field would be better. I personally think Annihilation Field fits better as a bonus power, but with the absence of ammo powers and consumables, AF might fit in. Hunter Mode heavily conflicts with Biotic Charge.

If one specs into Charge, Hunter Mode will see limited use, as they will most likely always have barriers up by Charging. If one specs into Hunter Mode, players will disregard Biotic Charge in order to obtain the damage buff. This breaks synergy within a class, thus leading to players commonly min/maxing builds by ignoring certain powers.

I was never a big fan of Carnage. I feel like it really doesn't fit in any category in terms of class, because it deals raw damage as a combat power, but it is also a good tech detonator. I would personally replace it with Phase Disruptor, as it does not interfere with cooldowns, and encourages the player to use the Vanguard's signature Biotic Charge, along with detonating tech combos.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Again, these are just my opinions. Everyone has there own playstyle and preferences. Nevertheless, if you need help with coming up with powers, perhaps I can assist.

While this kind of pushes the discussion thread a bit far, I think it would be interesting to discuss redesigning squadmate powers. Squadmate powers also leads to the discussion of bonus powers, which plays a pivotal role in how one builds their class.

Modifié par Soja57, 10 janvier 2014 - 09:59 .

[Abraham_uk]

1) My concept:

I have made alterations. Thanks for the feedback.
I think I'm going to stick with my final draft for the sake of this thread now.

________________________________________________________________________________
2) Squadmate designs:

Squadmate powers is a good way in which this conversation can go.

I don't think we'd be "redesigning" squadmates. We're talking about Mass Effect 4. As of now, there are no squadmates. There hasn't even been an initial design.
 
However I am happy for squadmates to be designed from scratch on this thread.
Go for it!

________________________________________________________________________________
3) An old Soja 57 concept:


Not thread relevant but might interest you, I've reviewed one of your old kits.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 10 janvier 2014 - 10:32 .