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[RedCaesar97]

@Soja57 and Abraham_uk:

Some really nice and interesting ideas. I will need to re-read and digest your concepts over the weekend.

Soja57: I like the mix of old powers (with some changes) and new power ideas. I want to read it again so I can get a good feel for it and provide some feedback.

Abraham_uk: I will need to re-read yours again to see what the changes were.

I must say that I am liking this thread.

[RedCaesar97]

@Soja57: 

I want to address some of your post, as well as provide some opinions/answers to a few of your questions:

Soja57 wrote...
For now, here is the general idea of each class.
...
7. Unsure about power combos, but they should be somewhere between ME2 and ME3 in terms of how easy it is to create combos. Tech combos are very limited, comparable to how the Adept was in ME2.

This is something I have been thinking about the past few days. 

For biotics:
I would like a return to physics-based combos. I hate how everything in ME3 is an explosion. I am sure some players would feel like this is a step backwards, but I think physics-based combos adds flavor. By default, Warp should only detonate enemies lifted by biotics like Pull and Singularity.

I say "by default", because I think you can provide evolutions with some powers to change that. For example, you could add an evolution to Throw that allows you to detonate enemies affected by Warp.

And your system does add new power ideas that modify the combo ideas somewhat.



For tech:
Personally, I would much prefer the ME2-style of tech powers fulfilling niche role, like Incinerate for armor, Overload for shields, Cryo Blast for health, Drones for distracting.

That being said, I think tech combos were interesting, and should make a limited return as evolutions. For example, an idea that has been running in my head is a ME2-style system of choose only 1 evolution, but from a list of 4 (instead of 2) evolutions.

For example:

Possible Overload evolutions:
1) Area Overload: Overload hits enemies in a 3m radius but at -50% damage
2) Double Overload: Overload hits twice
3) Draining Overload: Returns 50% of damage as shields (Energy Drain as an evolution)
4) Explosive Overload: Can detonate other explosive tech powers, and can be detonated by explosive tech powers for a tech burst. Tech burst can stun unprotected enemies and deals extra damage to enemy shields.

Possible Incinerate evolutions:
1) Area Incinerate: Incinerate hits enemies in a 3m radius but at -50% damage
2) Heavy Incinerate: Incinerate deals +100% more damage
3) Explosive Incinerate: Can detonate other explosive tech powers, and can be detonated by explosive tech powers for a fire explosion. Fire explosion can deal damage to health and armor. Organic enemies can panic if set on fire by the fire explosion. Enemies set on fire by the fire explosion cannot be detonated for another fire explosion.
4) ???

Possible Cryo Blast evolutions:
1) Area Cryo Blast: Cryo Blast hits enemies in a 3m radius, but at -50% duration.
2) Explosive Cryo Blast: Cryo blast can be detonated by an explosive tech power or a power with direct force such as Throw. The Cryo explosion can freeze unprotected enemies. Enemies frozen by the explosion cannot be detonated to create another cryo explosion.
3) Deep Cryo Blast: The sheer cold of the power can freeze an enemy protected by shields, armor or barrier, but at -50% duration. A protected enemy that is frozen does not receive the damage bonuses provided by Cryo Blast.
4) ???

For Ammo/weapon/combat powers:
I would like to remove power combos from these types of powers completely. 

Soja57 wrote...

8. Unsure about grenades and ammo powers. I've never truly made up my mind about these two, but I think the best route is to include both of these as powers, otherwise I feel that they would be nerfed too much if everyone could use the same grenades/ammo powers without requiring talent points.

I would also prefer they return as powers. Keeping them as powers prevents homogenizing the classes to a degree, and can help differentiate the classes.

Soja57 wrote...

Questions and Afterthoughts.

1) Judging from the description of the Soldier's Augmentation power, does it seem too complicated or need clarification? I have the same question for the Sentinel's Tech Armor.

2) The only way to detonate biotics is with Impulse unless evolutions have been taken for certain biotic powers. The Vanguard and Sentinel can create biotic detonations with the proper evolutions, but are designed to be limited and weaker than their Adept counterpart. Some may view this change to Warp and biotics in general negatively in comparison to ME2 and ME3.

3) Ammo Powers are more limited in the power arsenal for combat classes, most notably the Soldier only having Incendiary Ammo and Cryo Ammo being removed from the 6 classes.

4) Unsure about keeping grenades and ammo powers, perhaps later I will come up with a variant of combat classes without ammo powers and grenades

Any input would be appreciated.

1) No, I read it and understand it.

2) By detonate do you mean explosions? If so, then I like the change. I think a reduction in explosions is a good thing. 

3) No, not Cryo Ammo! That being said, Cryo Ammo was best used (mostly) as a squad-based power in ME2, and rather lackluster in ME3 thanks to fire explosions and tech bursts with the other ammo powers. Cryo Ammo on an Engineer would have been sweet, but overpowered.

4) Ammo powers make good powers. Essentially, i think of them as class-exclusive weapon mods. Since the Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator are weapons-based classes, i think it makes sense that these classes have powers that emphasize their weapons. Removing ammo mods from ME1 and making them powers in ME2 was a great move in my opinion. 

As for grenades, i think having them as powers is a good thing, but I do have a question: should they be a consumable/limited resource like in ME1/ME3, or as part of the global cooldown like in ME2?

[RedCaesar97]

And yet another thing I have been thinking about. I want to take a quick step back away from the class concept for a moment and instead focus on the powers themselves.

For the most part, I have always thought of powers falling into three categories: Combat, Tech, and Biotic. This was mostly true in ME1, and also in ME2 except Ammo powers were in a different category.

However, I am wondering if we should categorize powers into different categories altogether.

Every now and then someone on the forums suggests that power cooldowns be separated so that tech cooldowns do not share the same cooldown as biotics. Obviously, this only really benefits the Sentinel. I figure we should look at this way (my own interpretation of gameplay+lore):

The soldier's combat hardsuit has a power source that feeds power to most of the suit's systems; this includes the soldier's omni tool and biotic amp. Most biotic abilities and omni tool programs do not require much power to use. However, powerful combat-oriented biotic and omni tool abilities require power from the suit's power source to fuel the ability's power and this power source needs time to cool down so it can fuel the next ability. Some abilities require more power than others. 

So here is how I think powers can be categorized:

Biotic powers:
Biotic powers are generated from the soldier's biotic abilities, amplified through the soldier's biotic amplifier. Biotic powers require a cooldown. From the codex: 

Biotics is the ability of rare individuals to manipulate dark energy and create mass effect fields through the use of electrical impulses from the brain. Intense training and surgically-implanted amplifiers are necessary for a biotic to produce mass effect fields powerful enough for practical use....There are three branches of biotics. TELEKINESIS uses mass-lowering fields to levitate or impel objects. Mass-raising KINETIC FIELDS are used to block or pin objects. DISTORTION uses rapidly shifting mass fields to shred objects.
Biotic abilities can include:

• Singularity
• Warp
• Throw
• Pull/Lift
• Slam/Lift
• Stasis
• Charge
• Nova
• Shockwave

Tech powers:
Tech powers are generated using the soldier's Omni Tool. Tech powers require a cooldown. From the codex:

Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. 
...
The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment.

Tech powers can include:

• Overload
• Cryo Blast
• Incinerate
• Combat Drone
• Senty Turret
• Defense Drone
• Decoy

Armor powers:
This is a proposed new category. Armor powers require a cooldown. These are powers that can provide constant or brief passive bonuses to the soldier. Only one armor power can be active at a time.

Armor powers include:

• Adrenaline Rush
• Tactical Cloak
• Barrier (biotic ability, but it makes more sense as an armor bonus)
• Defense Matrix / Shield Boost
• Fortification
• Tech Armor
• Blade Armor

Weapon powers:
This is a proposed new category. Weapon powers are weapon modifications. They provide constant passive bonuses to the soldier's weapon. Weapon powers do not require a cooldown. 

Weapon powers include:

• Incendiary Ammo
• Disruptor Ammo
• Cryo Ammo
• Warp Ammo
• Shredder Ammo / AP Ammo
• Marksman / Overkill / Assassination or equivalent new power (I have some ideas for a new Overkill that can incorporate Marksman and Assassination)

NOTE: It never made much sense to me that Carnage and Concussive Shot shared a cooldown with most other powers, since they are weapon-based projectiles and should not share the same cooldown as biotics and tech. I have some ideas on how to make Carnage/C-Shot work in this new system but I need to think about it some more.

Gauntlet powers:
This is a proposed new category. Similar to the omni tool, guantlet powers are launched from a device worn on the wearer's wrist, powered by the soldier's hardsuit. Gauntlet powers require a cooldown.

Gauntlet powers include:

• Lash/Smash
• Ballistic Blades/Omni Bow
• Flamer

Grenade powers:
This is a proposed new category. Grenade powers are a consumable resource, limited in number. 

Grenade powers include:

• Grenades
• Proximity Mines
• Trip Mines

NOTE: I am thinking there are two ways to handle grenade powers:
1) Like grenades in ME1 and ME3, you have a finite number of grenades that can only be replenished by finding additional grenades on the battlefield or in crates or boxes. (Or dropped by enemies?)

2) You have only 1 grenade, but after using it, it can replenish itself after a set duration separate from the global cooldown. For example, after throwing the grenade, you can use the grenade again after a 15-second wait. This allows you to create very powerful consumable items that allow you extremely brief moments of damage spikes. You can explain the non-global cooldown by saying they are generated by a small fabricator attached to his hardsuit, like a mini Omni Tool.

Or as a third option:
3) Make grenades part of the global cooldown. Or perhaps have an evolution that allows it to become part of the global cooldown.



Thoughts or suggestions?

[Soja57]

Regarding tech combos, I never thought tech combos were necessary. It seems to be there just for the sake of OMG EXPLOSIONS. I thought the system went way too far in terms of priming and detonating tech combos; it is just way too easy to perform. This is why I proposed my system of a "tech combo" system.

I don't even know if you can call my system a tech combo system. It revolves around priming enemies with the Combat Drone (the only way to prime enemies); any enemy that is within close proximity of the drone or currently attacked by the drone are primed. Primed enemies will have orange sparks flowing around them. Let's call this combo an "Omni combo". Basically, this kind of priming actually takes on the effect of the detonator power, and is compatible with every tech power.

For example, using Incinerate on the Omni combo will result in a significantly more powerful version of Incinerate in damage, duration, and radius, comparable to a Fire Explosion. Likewise, you can use Cryo Blast, Sabotage, Overload, and any other Tech power on the primed enemies for a significant buff to the power. This allows each power to still fill the niche role (Incinerate vs Armor, Overload vs Shields), and Combat Drone to become a "centerpiece" of the Engineer class.

- - - - - - - - - - - - 

Perhaps we can combine both of our systems to create a great tech combo system. For example, as default, only the Combat Drone can set up a combo without evolutions. But certain powers can set up and prime combos with the right evolutions.

So Cryo Blast can prime enemies for a cryo explosion, and can be detonated by another explosive tech power. Incinerate can prime fire explosions, and can detonate other tech explosions. Likewise for Overload. Perhaps Sabotage can be evolved to prime enemies for an omni explosion, bolstering the effect of the detonator tech power.

Though should Tech Chains be allowed? For example, cryo blast to prime, and detonate cryo explosion with incinerate, then Overload to detonate fire explosion, etc.

- - - - - - - - - - - - 

Categorization: I think that is a great way to categorize powers. I can't wait to see what you do with Concussive Shot or Carnage.

For grenades, I think system 1 and 2 should be combined. Grenades are finite, and can be resupplied from ammo boxes and such. However, you can use armor mods or perhaps even passives for certain classes that restores a grenade in every X amount of seconds. Perhaps a squadmate could have that particular passive or evolution.

When I commented on designing squadmates, I was thinking more of the lines of current squadmates. This kind of links to the "If the ME Trilogy was one massive game" thread. In particular, I'm looking at how ME1 would handle with ME3 style gameplay, these classes, and redesigned squadmates.

Modifié par Soja57, 11 janvier 2014 - 08:25 .

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...

Regarding tech combos, I never thought tech combos were necessary. It seems to be there just for the sake of OMG EXPLOSIONS. I thought the system went way too far in terms of priming and detonating tech combos; it is just way too easy to perform.

Totally agree. I think it was done to promote teamwork in the multiplayer. 

Though should Tech Chains be allowed? For example, cryo blast to prime, and detonate cryo explosion with incinerate, then Overload to detonate fire explosion, etc.

I think not. 

I was thinking of only being able to combo on health, although I am open to suggestions. I don't think that you should be able to combo on shields or barriers, but maybe armor? I want protections to mean something again.

Categorization: I think that is a great way to categorize powers. I can't wait to see what you do with Concussive Shot or Carnage.

Personally, I think you can combine Carnage and Concussive Shot into one power and just call it "Carnage". Because "Carnage" sounds cooler and is much easier to say and spell than "Concussive Shot".

The following is a brief synopsis of my thought process. Feel free to add suggestions:
1) When I first started thinking about it, I was thinking something like:

Carnage: Shoots all remaining bullets in the gun's current clip for the sum total damage of the bullets (no protection modifiers)

But this presented a few problems:
 - Theoretically this could mean Carnage is better on some guns than other guns, although with some careful weapon balancing it could make it negligible for most weapons.
 - Single-shot weapons like the Claymore and Mantis have only one shot but a lot of spare ammo, and so you could spam the power 10-20 times until you run out of ammo. Compare this to the Katana which could only use it 3 times.

2) My next idea was a variation on the first:

Carnage: Sacrifices up to 25% of maximum spare ammo for the sum total damage of the ammo.

This fixed the second problem of the first idea, but it still creates the problem where some guns like the Claymore and Mantis will deal more damage with Carnage than with other guns like the Tempest.

3) The current idea i am toying with:

Carnage: Shaves a large portion off the gun's ammo block and fires it as super-heated particles at the enemy. To prevent this power from overheating the weapon's current and spare thermal clips, you cannot fire your weapon for 3 seconds after using Carnage.


Some ideas for evolutions:
 - Amplified Carnage: Amplifies Carnage with the gun's ammo power to increase damage to shields (Disruptor Ammo), barriers and lifted targets (Warp Ammo), armor (Incendiary Ammo / AP Ammo), or health (Shredder / AP Ammo), or to freeze unprotected enemy (Cryo Ammo).
 - Explosive Carnage: Carnage explodes on contact in a 3m radius, but at -50% damage
 - Triple Carnage: The weapon fires three Carnage shots simultaneously in a spread pattern (one straight ahead, and two at 22.5 degress to the left and right), but each shot deals only -50% damage.  This can allow you to hit one enemy for more damage, or multiple enemies for moderate damage.  (NOTE: Could this even work with autotargeting?)

For grenades, I think system 1 and 2 should be combined. Grenades are finite, and can be resupplied from ammo boxes and such. However, you can use armor mods or perhaps even passives for certain classes that restores a grenade in every X amount of seconds. Perhaps a squadmate could have that particular passive or evolution.

That could work.




@Soja57: I promise I will review your suggestions again later today.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 11 janvier 2014 - 03:47 .

[RedCaesar97]

@Soja57: I took a another look at your ideas. Here are my opinions:

1) Engineer: 
You kept the power set largely unchanged as it was pretty well designed to begin with. I like the removal of "tech combos" but unsure if making them a reliance on the drone is a good idea. Although as you pointed out in another post, your idea of "tech combos" is making tech powers more potent and not explosions:

I don't even know if you can call my system a tech combo system. It revolves around priming enemies with the Combat Drone (the only way to prime enemies); any enemy that is within close proximity of the drone or currently attacked by the drone are primed. Primed enemies will have orange sparks flowing around them. Let's call this combo an "Omni combo". Basically, this kind of priming actually takes on the effect of the detonator power, and is compatible with every tech power.

For example, using Incinerate on the Omni combo will result in a significantly more powerful version of Incinerate in damage, duration, and radius, comparable to a Fire Explosion. Likewise, you can use Cryo Blast, Sabotage, Overload, and any other Tech power on the primed enemies for a significant buff to the power. This allows each power to still fill the niche role (Incinerate vs Armor, Overload vs Shields), and Combat Drone to become a "centerpiece" of the Engineer class.

I need to think about that some more. I think it is a really neat concept.  

Sabotage is now a combination of AI Hacking and ME1 Damping. It actually makes more sense that way actually.


2) Adept:
Like the Engineer, the power set remains largely unchanged as it was pretty well designed to begin with. The new Impulse power seems interesting. At first glance it appears similar to Singularity but with some interesting properties or evolution ideas. Just looking at the description though makes it appear to be just a Super Singularity, making Singularity pointless. I think I need some clarification on where Singularity would be a benefit over Impulse.


3) Infiltrator:
A combination of hiding (cloak), scanning (Tac Scan and Recon Mine), and distraction (Decoy). Giving Disruptor Ammo a phasic/shield bypass evolution makes it better for sniper infiltrators. I like the change to Decoy; actually makes Decoy usable.

I know how Recon Mine and Tactical scan work in multiplayer, but I wonder if they are too similar in function for one class. You could probably combine the two of them, but would then need to add another power.


4) Vanguard:
Nice to see you used existing powers and came up with new concepts and ideas to emphasize the close-quarters nature of the class.


5) Sentinel:
The Sentinel is probably the toughest class to design. Still not sure that any of us has gotten it right.
With your proposal, Tech Armor and Shield boost allows the Sentinel to tank; Stasis and Snap Freeze can immobilize enemies. And Shockwave does.... something. Shockwave has always been the ugly stepchild in the biotic power family.

So basically the Sentinel's focus is on damage reduction (and shield restore) and disabling enemies with Stasis and Snap Freeze. Pretty good niche.


6) Soldier:
I have no real strong opinions on your proposal. It is very solid and fits the Soldier quite nicely I think.


All in all, I think there are a lot of great ideas and some very solid and fun class designs. I like it.

[Abraham_uk]

My concept for power evolutions. Well it's not really my concept.
It's the same concept as Mass Effect 3, but with more evolutions.


Rank 1: Cost 1 point.
Rank 2: Cost 2 points.
Rank 3: Cost 3 points.


Rank 4: Cost 4 points.

Evolution A
Evolution B


Rank 5: Cost 5 points

Evolution A
Evolution B


Rank 6: Cost 6 points

Evolution A
Evolution B


Rank 7: Cost 7 points

Evolution A
Evolution B
Evolution C



Final Evolution: Cost 8 points
Evolutions 1-7 offer subtle changes to the power in question.
However the Final Evolution offers some drastic changes (some evolutions even change the mechanics of the power)

Evolution A
Evolution B
Evolution C
Evolution D


Cost to max out a power: 36 points.


So what do you think?

[Abraham_uk]

I'm going into all 6 classes in more detail

Every single evolution of every single power will be covered.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 13 janvier 2014 - 10:58 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

My concept for power evolutions. Well it's not really my concept.
It's the same concept as Mass Effect 3, but with more evolutions.

<snip>

Respectfully, I think that is too many evolutions. I think 4 or 5 ranks is sufficient:

1) 4 ranks. Similar to Mass Effect 2, with a 1-2-3-4 point system, but with rank 4 offering a choice of 4 evolutions.
2) 5 ranks. Similar to Mass Effect 3, with a 1-2-3-4-5 point system, with ranks 4 and 5 offering a choice of 2 evolutions.

Mass Effect 3 had some issues with evolutions, where some evolutions were poorly balanced, or 2-3 evolutions were essentially worthless. Rank 5 of Ammo powers I am looking at you.

I just think 4 evolutions is a good balance of variety, and you do not run the risk of coming up with some stupid or lame evolution choices.

Final Evolution: Cost 8 pointsEvolutions 1-7 offer subtle changes to the power in question.However the Final Evolution offers some drastic changes (some evolutions even change the mechanics of the power)

I do not want to change the very mechanics of a power; For example, I don't want to change Throw into Warp if I already have Warp. 


As a challenge, try to use your proposed 8-rank system (13 evolution) and come up with an evolution tree for Throw.

[Abraham_uk]

RedCaesar97 wrote...


I do not want to change the very mechanics of a power; For example, I don't want to change Throw into Warp if I already have Warp. 


As a challenge, try to use your proposed 8-rank system (13 evolution) and come up with an evolution tree for Throw.

Challenge Accepted:

Okay for starters. There would be no evolving warp into throw.
All of the Rank 8 evolutions are biotic powers that esencially throw enemies away from the caster. They just do so in different ways.

Rank 1: Unlock throw

Rank 2: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 3: Radius increased from 0.5 metres to 0.75 metres

Rank 4a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 4b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 5a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 5b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 6a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 6b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 7a: Kockdown increase by 5% 
Rank 7b: Damage increase by 5%
Rank 7c: Radius increase by 0.25 metres


Advanced Evolutions: (All of these evolutions take ranks 1-7 into account)

Rank 8a: Hard Throw: This evolution of throw enables physics combos with powers such as pull and singularity.
Rank 8b: Dual Throw: This allows you to cast two warp fields at the same time, targeting two separate targets.
Rank 8c: Shockwave: Send out a chain of pulses that throw enemies away and stagger protected foes.
Rank 8d: Nova: A short ranged shockwave that expends barriers for additional damage.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 12 janvier 2014 - 12:05 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...


I do not want to change the very mechanics of a power; For example, I don't want to change Throw into Warp if I already have Warp. 


As a challenge, try to use your proposed 8-rank system (13 evolution) and come up with an evolution tree for Throw.

Challenge Accepted:

Okay for starters. There would be no evolving warp into throw.
All of the Rank 8 evolutions are biotic powers that esencially throw enemies away from the caster. They just do so in different ways.

Rank 1: Unlock throw

Rank 2: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 3: Radius increased from 0.5 metres to 0.75 metres

Rank 4a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 4b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 5a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 5b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 6a: Force and damage + 5%
Rank 6b: Radius increased by 0.25 metres

Rank 7a: Kockdown increase by 5% 
Rank 7b: Damage increase by 5%
Rank 7c: Radius increase by 0.25 metres


Advanced Evolutions: (All of these evolutions take ranks 1-7 into account)

Rank 8a: Hard Throw: This evolution of throw enables physics combos with powers such as pull and singularity.
Rank 8b: Dual Throw: This allows you to cast two warp fields at the same time, targeting two separate targets.
Rank 8c: Shockwave: Send out a chain of pulses that throw enemies away and stagger protected foes.
Rank 8d: Nova: A short ranged shockwave that expends barriers for additional damage.

So with the exception of 7a (which does nothing), between ranks 4 to 7 you are essentially choosing between +20% damage and force, or +1m radius.




Evolutions should be meaningful and give a choice to the player.  Something like this:

Rank 1: Throw. 1000N force.

Rank 2: Recharge Speed. -25% cooldown

Rank 3: Damage. Adds 100 damage on impact.

Rank 4a: Radius. Hits enemies in a 3m radius on impact, -50% Force and damage.
Rank 4b: Extreme Force. +100% Force.

Rank 5a: Vulnerability: After being hit by throw, enemies take +50% more damage from all sources.
Rank 5b: Lasting Damage: After being hit by throw, enemies take 50 damage per second for 10 seconds.


Rank 6a: Ricochet: Throw bounces off the enemy to hit one additional enemy at -50% force and damage.
Rank 6b: Double Throw: Launch two throws at the enemy.

Rank 7a: Protection Piercing. Throw now affects enemies protected by armor, shields, or barriers but at -50% Force and Damage.
Rank 7b: Cover Piercing. Throw can now go through cover to hit enemies.
Rank 7c: Explosive Throw. Throw can now detonate enemies affected by biotics. Explosion deals 500 damage and 500N force in a 3 radius.

Rank 8a: Unstoppable. Throw continues to travel for 30 seconds, hitting anything in its path. It can now bounce off walls.
Rank 8b: Vortex. On contact, Throw creates a minature black hole that sucks in a 15m radius.
Rank 8c: Hand of God. Throw picks up an enemy and throws him into the center of the Earth. 
Rank 8d: Back to the Future. Throw tears a hole in the space-time continuum, summoning a Tyrannosaurus Rex that eats all enemies in a 5m radius.

[Soja57]

 Thanks for the input on my classes. Impulse is not a duration-based power, meaning that it pulls enemies towards the center instantly, pretty much like the opposite of Throw or Flare. This means that it can't prime for biotic combos, but is great for setting up combos. I'm also thinking it will have a 6 second cooldown, compared to Singularity's 4.5 second cooldown in ME2. For example, use Impulse to cluster up enemies, then use Singularity to lift all of the clustered up enemies, priming them for a biotic detonation or force-based powers.

I was kind of thinking the same thing for the Infiltrator and Sentinel. Perhaps I could swap out Shockwave for something, I don't know. For the Infiltrator, I think I could remove the scanning from Recon Mine and include it in an evolution instead. That way, the two powers don't overlap as much.

- - - - - - - - - -

Carnage is in a tough spot. I don't know if making it shave off a % of any form of ammo is good, because it kind of detriments weapon classes. Also, shutting down weapons for 3 seconds causes combat classes to lose a lot of DPS from their weapons. Though making it use a cooldown is somewhat odd, also.

Personally, I would keep it as a cooldown-based power. It is the most simple solution, even though it may not make perfect sense. If you read my version of Concussive Shot, the power has evolved more into a combat power than previous incarnations. This is pretty much my own power with properties similar to Concussive Shot, called Discharge Blast, which I pulled from one of my proposed DLC characters. This is assuming we are using ME3's evolution system.

Fires a concentrated fireball-like blast from your weapon that deals damage proportional to heat generated in current weapon clip (i.e. more shots depleted in current clip yields a higher damage output).

Base Damage = 240
Heat Damage = +100% maximum (or +1% for every percent used of current clip capacity)
Base Cooldown = 10 seconds (3 or 4.5 seconds for ME2-style cooldowns)

Evolutions
2 = Increase recharge speed by 25%
3 = Increase damage by 20%
4a = Damage: Increase damage by 30%
4b = Radius: Deals damage in a 2 meter radius
5a = Amplification: Takes on the properties of the current ammo power.
5b = Weapon Boost: Increase weapon damage by 20% for 5 seconds
6a = Reload: Automatically reloads your weapon (Similar to Adrenaline Rush)
6b = Burn Damage: Deal an additional 100% of total damage (base + heat) as burn damage over 4 seconds

Also, after trying to come up with a better evolution system, I personally think ME3's evolution system has the potential to be a great system. Of course, it didn't live up to its potential in ME3 because many of the evolutions were near-useless. Howevever, that is more of an issue of evolutions than the system itself. The only other alternative that I like is simply removing the 6th evolution.

Also, I love your evolutions for Throw, RedCaesar97.


Some alternative evolution systems that I created but didn't work for me for various reasons:

Rank 1

Rank 2

Rank 3a or 3b

Rank 4a or 4b

Rank 5a, 5b, or 5c

- - - - - - - - - -

Rank 1

Rank 2a or 2b

Rank 3a, 3b, or 3c

Rank 4a, 4b, 4c, or 4d

Modifié par Soja57, 12 janvier 2014 - 11:43 .

[RedCaesar97]

@Soja57: Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, it looks like Carnage/Concussive Shot/"Discharge Blast" would end up being part of the global cooldown, even if it would be odd.

As for Recon Mine/Tactical Scan, removing the scan part of recon mine would remove one of the selling features of Recon Mine (the other feature being able to detonate it for damage). Hmmm... How about a "Remote Mine" power then? Or would that not fit with your Infiltrator scheme? I almost think your Engineer's Sabotage would fit better on the Infiltrator, or maybe I am misreading it.

As for the Sentinel, the theme seems to be damage protection/survival and disable. Maybe Submission Net? At first glance, Stasis and Submission Net fill the same role, but I think with the right evolutions you could really differentiate between the two.


As for evolutions, I think 4 evolutions is the sweet spot. I just do not know whether it should be a ME2-style "choose one from a list" or ME3 style "Choose from 2, choose from 2".

[Soja57]

 I think Remote Mine would be a great alternative. I like the idea of remotely detonating the mine, it sort of gives it that tactical feel that an Infiltrator would have. As long as it has scanning as an evolution, I think it works perfectly.

Yeah, that was the basic premise of the Sentinel class. Although Shockwave doesn't really fit with the damage protection and disable theme of the class, it allows the Sentinel to perform biotic detonations with the right evolutions and is the only power for the Sentinel that can ragdoll targets. Also, I like Shockwave, it is a skillful power to use.


I think the best evolution system is ME3's version (when done properly), but I wouldn't mind if the 6th rank was removed. ME2's 4 ranks offered too little to customize your powers.

Also, I'm about half way done formulating my redesigned squadmates for the trilogy. That's close to 19 squadmates total (DLC characters that remain as crewmates also counted). Probably my toughest challenge yet, as I'm going with ME3's route of handling squadmate powers: 4 powers, 2 of which are character unique and can be unlocked as a bonus power. This allows for over 30 bonus powers to choose from. Too much?

Modifié par Soja57, 12 janvier 2014 - 03:18 .

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...
Also, I'm about half way done formulating my redesigned squadmates for the trilogy. That's close to 19 squadmates total (DLC characters that remain as crewmates also counted). Probably my toughest challenge yet, as I'm going with ME3's route of handling squadmate powers: 4 powers, 2 of which are character unique and can be unlocked as a bonus power. This allows for over 30 bonus powers to choose from.

Too much?

Maybe a little too much. But certainly interesting.

[Soja57]

Before I can continue on redesigning squadmates, what is the preferred system for squadmates?
I am currently following ME3's system:

-2 traditional powers (powers that are shared with at least one of Shepard's classes)
-2 unique powers (powers that can be unlocked as bonus powers for Shepard)
-Character Passive

But I'm thinking that this may be too much powers for the entire squad. For me, there is almost always one power that I don't use for each squadmate in ME3.

I'm starting to lean towards ME2's system, with 2 traditional powers, 1 unique power, and character passive. Not only does it cut the ridiculous amount of bonus powers in half, but it also makes each squadmate power much more meaningful during combat.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Soja57, 13 janvier 2014 - 07:06 .

[Abraham_uk]

Adept:

I've copied and pasted some of the stats and power descriptions from Soja 57.
He has some good ideas and explains things well.
Also I'm trying to keep things balanced.



What I'm willing to change:

I'm willing to change/edit individual evolutions of powers.

Alter the descriptions of powers to make them easier to understand.
Alter some of the stats.


What I'm unwilling to change:


I have a specific idea in mind for the evolutions.

Rank 1a  Rank 1b
Rank 2a  Rank 2b
Rank 3a  Rank 3b
Rank 4a  Rank 4b



Also I'm unwilling to change the central concepts of each powers.
In other words

Biotic Trap will remain a trap focused power that will either pull or throw enemies (depending on rank 1).
Levitation will revolve around lifting/pulling foes.

Throw will throw enemies.
Warp will be the main damage dealing cannon.
Biotic Focus will be a consumable with buffs.
Biotic Mastery will be passive with buffs for the adept.


______________________________________________________________________________

Statistics for the Adept: Copied from Soja 57


Health
-Capacity = 600 health (3 segments, 200 health per segment)
-Regeneration = 6 seconds (4 second delay, 2 seconds per segment)

Barriers
-Capacity = 600 barriers
-Regeneration = 8 seconds (4 second delay, 25% restored per second)

Heavy Melee: Biotic Push
Push unprotected enemies away in a wide radius with massive force while dealing damage. Staggers protected targets.
-Damage = 300 damage
-Force = 900 N (2x vs Lifted Targets)
-Impact Radius = 3 meters


Weapons Training:

The adept can carry 1 weapon (this can be increased to 2)
In addition the heavier the weapon, the more it slows down cooldowns.
This follows weight capacity.

Pistols
SMG's
Shotguns
Assault Rifles
Sniper Rifles 
Heavy Weapons (they use their own separate ammo)


Consumables

The adept has 2 consumables to worry about (aside from weapon ammo)

Medigel

Grenades (all bonuses to weapon damage affect damage output of grenades)
Biotic Focus (these share the same consumable pool as grenades)

______________________________________________________________________________


How this setup works

For player character


Every rank for each power costs 1 point.

Every rank will give you two choices. Option A and Option B
Each power has 4 ranks. 
There are 7 powers in total (including Class Passive and Bonus Power)
When you reach level cap of 20 you will have 20 points to spend.




For squadmates
They will have 4  powers: 2 shared powers, 1 race specific power and 1 unique passive.
Each rank for every power will cost 2 points.

When they reach level cap of 20, they will have 20 points to spend.



Why this system?
I can't stand the spare points of Mass Effect 2 and 3.
I want to be able to come up with any build I want without having to deal with wasted points.



______________________________________________________________________________

Warp:


Rip your enemy apart at the molecular level, dealing massive instant damage. The affected enemy is weaker to successive biotic effects and is dealt continuous warp damage until the duration ends (Can stack with itself). Warped enemies are covered in mini-mass effect fields for a visual effect.



Rank 1a: Unlock  High Impact Warp:
A much more damaging version of warp that only affects 1 target.

Instant Damage = 180 damage (1.5x vs Barriers and Armor)
Damage Per Second = 10 damage (1.5x vs Barriers and Armor)
Duration = 6 seconds
Biotic Damage/Force Bonus = 15%
Cooldown = 6 seconds





Rank 1b: Unlock Wide Area Warp:
A version of warp that can hit multiple targets but at the cost of damage output.

Instant Damage = 90 damage (1.5x vs Barriers and Armor)
Damage Per Second = 5 damage (1.5x vs Barriers and Armor)
Duration = 6 seconds
Biotic Damage/Force Bonus = 15%
Cooldown = 6 seconds

Radius of Effect: 2 metres




Rank 2a: Warp Detonation
When Warp is used on a biotically-primed enemy, Warp destabilizes the current biotic effect for a Warp detonation. Warp detonations amplify Warp's damage and grants a radius and force bonus capable of knocking down unprotected targets, but cancels out its debuff ability.
-Detonation Damage = 1.5x total damage
-Detonation Radius = +3 meters
-Detonation Force = +400 N

Rank 2b: Debuff
Biotic Damage and Force Bonus +10%



Rank 3a: Reave Effect
Gain 20% damage protection when using warp.
Also barriers regenerate 20% faster. 


Rank 3b: Dark Channel
Plague warp affected target with a continuously damaging field that deals 5 points of damage per second.
Effect jumps to a second target, if the original target is killed.

Choosing this evolution increases warp's duration by 50%


Rank 4a: Biotic Primer
Warp can prime enemies for a biotic detonation (unless it was used as a detonator), but can't be detonated by another Warp. Grants its biotic damage and force bonus to the detonation. 50% reduction in effectiveness of biotic detonations vs protections.

Rank 4b: Damage 
Impact damage +35%
Damage over time + 35%


______________________________________________________________________________

Levitation:


Launch enemies into the air with a biotic projectile. When in air they will be vulnerable to attacks.
There are two types of levitation fields:

Lifts that yanks a foe into the air vertically. Lift primes better physics combos.
Pull that yanks foes towards the caster. Pull primes better biotic explosions.



Rank 1a: Unlock Pull
Yank an opponent helplessly off the ground towards the caster while staggering protected targets. Primes ragdolled targets for a biotic detonation or a physics combo.

Biotic explosions deal 50% more damage when primed by pull.


Lift Force = 400 N
Duration = 5 seconds
Cooldown = 3 seconds




Rank 1b: Unlock Lift
Yank an opponent helplessly vertically. Primes ragdolled targets for a biotic detonation or a physics combo.

Throw gains a 2.5 force bonus to physics combos when primed by lift.


Lift Force = 600 N
Duration = 5 seconds
Cooldown = 5 seconds



Rank 2a: Duration
Increase power duration by 20%
Lifted targets take 10% extra damage from all sources.


Rank 2b: Cooldown
Reduce power cooldown by 20%



Rank 3a: Despersion
This evolution enables the despersing of fire, ice and lightning effects.
Any foe affected by despersed effects will recieve 50% of the damage output and stat debuffs of despersed effects.




Rank 3a:  Explosive Levitation
Levitation grants +25% bonus to force and damage of combos and detonations when used as a primer.


Rank 3b: Damaging Levitation
Levitation deals 10 points of damage per second to lifted targets.


Rank 4a: Lash
Can pierce through shields and barriers, but reduces Levitation's duration and lift force by 50%. All combos and detonations can also pierce, but have a global effectiveness reduction as well. Can stack with other biotic powers with piercing evolutions for full force effectiveness.


Rank 4b: Double Levitation
Launch two levitation projectiles to seek 2 targets, increasing cooldown by 30%.

 

______________________________________________________________________________

Throw: 

Toss unprotected enemies through the air with this biotic blast while staggering protected targets. Gains bonus Force against lifted targets, emphasizing force-based combos.


Rank 1a: Unlock Forceful Strike
Force = 600 N (1.5x vs lifted targets and 2.5x versus targets specifically lifted by lift evolution of levitation )
Cooldown = 3 seconds




Rank 1b: Unlock Injuring Strike
A focused version of throw that injures oponents. This will make them limp and suffer 20% penality to their accuracy.

Injuries will also deal 5 points of damage per second.
Injuries are permanent unless healed by a medic. (So it is always a good idea to kill medic class enemies first in order to get the most out of this version of throw).


Force = 300 N (1.5x vs lifted targets and 2.5x versus targets specifically lifted by lift evolution of levitation )
Cooldown = 5 seconds



Rank 2a: Throw Force 
Increases force of throw by 20%

Rank 2b: Force Combos
Increases throw's force by 20% when launched at lifted targets.



Rank 3a: Despersion
This evolution enables the despersing of fire, ice and lightning effects.
Any foe affected by despersed effects will recieve 50% of the damage output and stat debuffs of despersed effects.


Rank 3b: Thrust
Can pierce through shields and barriers, but reduces Throw's force by 50%. Allows Impact Damage to deal full damage vs non-armored targets. Can stack with other biotic powers with piercing evolutions for full force effectiveness.


Rank 4a: Throw Detonation
When Throw is used on a biotically-primed enemy, Throw utilizes the current biotic effect to create an amplified Throw field. Throw detonations apply Throw's effects in a wide radius, throwing multiple enemies in a direction with massive force and dealing damage.
-Detonation Damage = Deals 10% of Total Force as Impact Damage (benefits from both force and damage bonuses). Deals only 50% of its Impact Damage against protected targets.
-Detonation Radius = +2 meters



Rank 4b: Double Throw
Launch two throw projectiles to seek 2 targets, increasing cooldown by 30%.



______________________________________________________________________________

Biotic Trap:




Create a trap on the battle field that will either pull enemies towards it or throw enemies away from it depending on rank 1 evolution.



Rank 1a: Unlock Singularity
Create a sphere of dark energy that damages any enemy caught in the field while lifting and trapping unprotected targets. Protected targets have significantly reduced movement speed while remaining inside the Singularity. Primes ragdolled targets for a biotic detonation.

Lift Force = 400 N
Damage Per Second = 30 damage
Duration = 4 seconds
Radius = 2 meters
Movement Speed Reduction = 40%
Cooldown = 4.5 seconds



Rank 1b: Unlock Repulsion Field
Create a sphere of dark energy that throws any unprotected enemy within the field's radius. Protected targets have significantly reduced movement within the field's radius. This field can detonate physics combos with levitation.

Targets thrown by repulsion field will remain in the air for 3 seconds (vulnerable to force combos).
If a target already biotically primed is thrown by repulsion field (and you picked warp effect evolution [rank 4a]) then the repulsion field can detonate biotic explosions.


Throw Force = 600N 
Duration = 4 seconds
Radius = 2 meters
Movement Speed Reduction = 40%
Cooldown = 4.5 seconds



Rank 2a: Damage and Duration
Damage increased by 30%
Duration increased by 30%


Rank 2b:  Damage and Radius
Radius increased by 30%
Duration increased by 30% 


Rank 3a: Despersion
This evolution enables the despersing of fire, ice and lightning effects.
Any foe affected by despersed effects will recieve 50% of the damage output and stat debuffs of despersed effects.


Rank 3b: Piercing Trap
Biotic Trap generates rapidly-shifting mini-mass effect fields to deal warp damage. Damage +50%, Deals 1.5x damage vs Barriers and Armor


Rank 4a: Implosion
When field expires, it will implode dealing 100 points of damage to all targets within a radius of 3 metres.


Rank 4b: Warp Effect
Singularity will biotically prime any targets within the field.
Repulsion field will detonate biotic explosions. If a biotically primed target is thrown by repulsion field then this will cause a biotic explosion.


______________________________________________________________________________

Biotic Focus: 

Biotic focus is a consumable that can be used once/twice per battle and lasts 20/30 seconds
This field provides the adept with bonuses to their effectiveness in combat.


Rank 1a: Unlock: Power Vulnerability
All enemies affected lifted in the air will take 20% more damage from all powers.


Rank 1b: Unlock:  Quick Casting
Reduces cooldowns by 30%
Projectile speed increased by 30%
Reduces chances of biotic projectiles being dodged.


Rank 2a: Survival Boost
Barriers restored by 50% after combos are performed by adept.
Reduce damage taken by 10%


Rank 2b: Commando Boost
Targets affected by biotics take 20% extra damage from weapons.


Rank 3a: Heightened Focus
Enter a heightend state that increases movement speed by 20%
Reduces damage taken by 20%
Deals 20% extra melee damage to any targets affected by biotic powers.


Rank 3b: Explosive Focus
Increases damage of biotic explosions by 30%
Increases radius of biotic explosions by 30%
Increases force and damage of force combos by 30%.


Rank 4a: Duration
Increases Biotic Focus duration by 10 seconds.


Rank 4b: Biotic Ravager
+1 metre to radius of biotic trap
Cooldown is reset every time a the adept kills a foe with a biotic combo
Powers deal 20% extra damage.

______________________________________________________________________________

Bonus Power:

Select 1 bonus power for the adept.

I will go into detail of all the bonus powers at a later date.

______________________________________________________________________________

Biotic Mastery: 

Passive Power

Rank 1a: Defence
+50% to health
+ 50% to barriers


Rank 1b: Duration Caster
Increases biotic durations by 20%


Rank 2a: Marksman:
Targets affected by warp take 20% more damage from headshots.


Rank 2b: Melee Synergy:
Targets affected by warp take 20% more damage from melee attacks.


Rank 3a: Weapons Training
Reduces the weight of weapons by 30%
Also allows the adept to carry an additional weapon.

Rank 3b: Primer Damage
All duration-based powers deal +50% Damage Per Second (Levitation and Singularity gain 24 Damage per Second and benefits from power damage bonuses)


Rank 4a:Area Caster
+20% to the radius of singularity
+20% to the radius of biotic explosions and physics combos.

Rank 4b: Power Damage
Increases power damage by 20%
Increases combo damage by 20%

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 25 janvier 2014 - 09:56 .

[Abraham_uk]

Soja57 wrote...

Before I can continue on redesigning squadmates, what is the preferred system for squadmates?
I am currently following ME3's system:

-2 traditional powers (powers that are shared with at least one of Shepard's classes)
-2 unique powers (powers that can be unlocked as bonus powers for Shepard)
-Character Passive

But I'm thinking that this may be too much powers for the entire squad. For me, there is almost always one power that I don't use for each squadmate in ME3.

I'm starting to lean towards ME2's system, with 2 traditional powers, 1 unique power, and character passive. Not only does it cut the ridiculous amount of bonus powers in half, but it also makes each squadmate power much more meaningful during combat.

Thoughts?

I see where you're going. The way I see it, Mass Effect 3 had less squadmates than Mass Effect 2, so it made more sence to have 4 powers per squadmate.

However you intend to do 19. So you might find it difficult to come up with 38 new powers.
I say go for 3 if you intend to do all 19.
However if you want to do 1-9 squadmates then consider 4.



So I was wondering what you make of my Adept concept.
I've now elaborated it to include all of the evolutions for the class.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 13 janvier 2014 - 10:48 .

[Soja57]

After skimming your post, there are several major points that I would like to point out:

1. Weapons for caster classes.

Giving the option for caster classes to carry no weapons is a big turnoff for me. The core gameplay of Mass Effect is combining weapons and powers together. Completely take out one or the other, even if it is optional, and you might as well be playing a different game. While it may provide new playstyles by granting unique bonuses, it changes the core gameplay too much.

Also, limiting caster classes to only one weapon (and only to SMGs and Pistols) is way too restricting. It limits the various playstyles that casters can have, especially my favorite Shotgun Engineer, who carries a Shotgun and Heavy Pistol. Even though evolutions are avaliable to slightly remedy this issue, early builds won't be as fun.

Here is an example of my system for class weapons:

-Assume that my system is based off of ME3. Min encumbrance is 0%, so weapon weight can't grant cooldown bonuses (this makes other cooldown bonuses like power evolutions more valuable). However, max encumbrance is 100%, meaning that weapon weight causes penalty to cooldowns, but the max penalty won't be too extreme compared to base ME3. For example 100% for a power with a cooldown of 6 seconds is 12 seconds, which isn't too bad compared to base ME3, which can have up to 30 second cooldowns.

-Total weapon encumbrance can't exceed 100%. Combat classes have a base encumbrance bonus, allowing them to carry more weight than caster classes. So let's say that a Predator pistol weighs 30%, an Avenger assault rifle 50%, and Katana shotgun 50%. That totals up to 130%, so a caster class can't carry all three weapons because it exceed the 100% limit.

-However, combat classes would have an encumbrance bonus of 30%, so they can carry all three weapons at the cost of 100% penalty to cooldowns. Along with the 100% encumbrance limit, all classes can only carry 3 weapons total, and one of the weapons must be at least either an SMG or a Pistol.

-The numbers aren't balanced, but are there simply to demonstrate my idea. With careful balancing, I feel that this system is the best way to handle weapons for each class. It isn't too limiting, and brings in a factor of weapon weight when deciding weapon loadout and power cooldowns, but not to the unbalanced state of ME3's default system. I play with a similar system in ME3 by modding my game files, and it plays pretty well.

- - - - - - - - - -

2. General Power Overview

I would like more details on the base stats for the powers. While it may be difficult, because we aren't particularly familiar with the health values of enemies, nor the force required to push them a certain distance, but some numbers would help compare one power to another power of the Adept. Notable values include Base Cooldown, Force, Damage, Duration, etc. Judging from the power descriptions, some of the base powers are too generic. I prefer powers that work well and are unique even at lower ranks.

I don't like how evolutions 2 and 3 of most powers grant an insignicant bonus. They just seem like obstacles to the evolutions that actually impact the power. A 5% bonus isn't going to be felt during combat, almost negligible. That said, the last evolutions of the power change the behavior of the power. I have mixed opinions about this; while I like the unique combinations that these evolutions could create, it also means that players have to adapt too much for every rank.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Again, this is just a general overview by skimming the main points of the post. I'll try to look in depth at the actual evolutions.

Modifié par Soja57, 14 janvier 2014 - 12:16 .

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...

Before I can continue on redesigning squadmates, what is the preferred system for squadmates?
I am currently following ME3's system:

-2 traditional powers (powers that are shared with at least one of Shepard's classes)
-2 unique powers (powers that can be unlocked as bonus powers for Shepard)
-Character Passive

But I'm thinking that this may be too much powers for the entire squad. For me, there is almost always one power that I don't use for each squadmate in ME3.

I'm starting to lean towards ME2's system, with 2 traditional powers, 1 unique power, and character passive. Not only does it cut the ridiculous amount of bonus powers in half, but it also makes each squadmate power much more meaningful during combat.

Thoughts?

Well since you are following the ME2 system of 5 powers for the player, then following the ME2 system of 3 powers for squadmates is good.

As it stands in both games, I typically only use 1 or 2 powers on a squadmate anyway. ME3 Garrus and Liara are exceptions for me in that I actually use three powers, sometimes 4 in Garrus's case, but that is because ME3 gives you way too many points.

At like you point out, giving squadmates 4 powers in ME3 seemed mostly as a way to hand out bonus powers to Shepard. Most ME3 squadmates seem to have at least 1 useless power, or at least 1 power that no one uses.


The hard part is trying to come up with power sets for squadmates so that each squadmate has a role while not overlapping too much with another squadmate or making another squadmate useless.

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...
...

1. Weapons for caster classes.

Giving the option for caster classes to carry no weapons is a big turnoff for me. The core gameplay of Mass Effect is combining weapons and powers together. Completely take out one or the other, even if it is optional, and you might as well be playing a different game. While it may provide new playstyles by granting unique bonuses, it changes the core gameplay too much.

Also, limiting caster classes to only one weapon (and only to SMGs and Pistols) is way too restricting. It limits the various playstyles that casters can have, especially my favorite Shotgun Engineer, who carries a Shotgun and Heavy Pistol. Even though evolutions are avaliable to slightly remedy this issue, early builds won't be as fun.

Totally agree. Going weaponless seems too much like a Fantasy RPG to me. And I agree that the core of the Mass Effect games is to use both guns and powers together.

I also have shotgun Engineers, Adepts, and Sentinels. Heck, my favorite Engineer uses a sniper rifle.

Here is an example of my system for class weapons:

<snip>

That system seems like it would work pretty well, but I don't like how it is still tied to the class's cooldowns.

Another possibility is an idea by Curunen back in an old ME2 thread (a thread I cannot seem to find at the moment). It is similar to your system except it does not affect cooldowns. Curunen proposed an encumbrance system, where each class has a weapon encumbrance, and each weapon has a different encumbrance value. The Soldiers get the most encumbrance, then Vanguards and Infiltrators, then Adepts + Engineers + Sentinels. So all classes could carry the heaviest weapons, like the Claymore or Widow, but only the weapons classes would be able to carry a second weapon.

...
2. General Power Overview

I would like more details on the base stats for the powers. While it may be difficult, because we aren't particularly familiar with the health values of enemies, nor the force required to push them a certain distance, but some numbers would help compare one power to another power of the Adept. Notable values include Base Cooldown, Force, Damage, Duration, etc. Judging from the power descriptions, some of the base powers are too generic. I prefer powers that work well and are unique even at lower ranks.

I don't like how evolutions 2 and 3 of most powers grant an insignicant bonus. They just seem like obstacles to the evolutions that actually impact the power. A 5% bonus isn't going to be felt during combat, almost negligible. That said, the last evolutions of the power change the behavior of the power. I have mixed opinions about this; while I like the unique combinations that these evolutions could create, it also means that players have to adapt too much for every rank.

Again, pretty much my thoughts. ME1 talent ranks provided such little bonuses that you needed to add 2-3 ranks to really notice the change. I have mentioned this before, but gaining a rank or choosing an evolution needs to be meaningful. 

ME2 did this to a degree, and I thought ME3 did it better even if it still had some flaws.




In my opinion, powers should follow the ME3 structure where:
Rank 1: Unlock power. Power works from the start.
Rank 2: Improve one aspect of a power. In ME3 this was typically recharge speed (cooldown powers), grenade count (grenades), or % chance of status effect (ammo powers).
Rank 3: Improve one aspect of a power, or add a new aspect to the power.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions


Let's take Overload for example.
For this example:

• The game has 3 difficulties: Easy, Normal and Hard.
• On Easy, basic enemies have no protections. On Normal, basic enemies have 300 shields/barriers/armor. On Hard, basic enemies have 600 shields/barriers/armor.
• Overload has a 300% damage bonus to shields, 100% damage to barriers, 0% damage bonus to armor, and 0% damage bonus to health.

Rank 1: Overload; 200 damage, 8 second recharge speed. (Just enough to remove the weakest shields on Hard)
Rank 2: Recharge Speed: -25% recharge speed. (Cooldown now 6 seconds).
Rank 3: Shock: On unprotected enemies, Overload will shock enemies, stunning them for (base) 3 seconds.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions. 
Not sure what the evolutions would be, but I hope you see my point.


Or how about this for Incendiary Ammo:
Rank 1: Armor damage. +50% base weapon damage versus armor and health.
Rank 2: Health Damage. 25% base weapon damage versus health.
Rank 3: Chance to ignite: On health, has a 15% chance to set the enemy on fire; damage is dealt over 3 seconds, panicking organics.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions. 


For class passives, you could do something similar. For the Engineer, Adept, and Sentinel for example:
Rank 1: Recharge Speed. -25% recharge speed for all powers. (combined with rank 2 in powers, this gives you -50% recharge speed).
Rank 2: Duration. +25% duration for all powers.
Rank 3: Weight Capacity. +XX to weight capacity. You can now carry more or heavier weapons. Using Soja57's idea, you could start with 100 weight capacity and add +50 with this rank.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions.

Or perhaps for the Soldier:
Rank 1: Weight Capacity. +XXX to weight capacity.
Rank 2: Ammo capacity. +25% more spare ammo for all weapons.
Rank 3: Storm Speed. +25% running speed.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions

Or perhaps for the Infiltrator:
Rank 1: Sniper Time. +50% time dilation when zooming in with sniper rifles for 3 seconds.
Rank 2: Weight Capacity. +XX more weight capacity.
Rank 3: Ammo capacity. +25% more spare ammo for all weapons.
Rank 4 and up: Evolutions.


I think you get the idea.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 14 janvier 2014 - 02:31 .

[Soja57]

Here is my redesign for squadmates for the entire ME trilogy. This is under the assumption that the whole trilogy is one massive game, and that the whole trilogy uses ME3's gameplay. Also, all squadmates progress through the entire trilogy, meaning that their powers and talent points carry over to each successive game. Wrex and many of the ME2 crew that were unusable in ME3 portion of the original trilogy return as temporary squadmates in ME3(unless they are deceased). Notable DLC squadmates are included in this list. Now, onto the basics of each squadmember's power loadout:

1. All squadmates have 3 powers and their character-exclusive passive, none of the powers are locked (meaning that you can spec into any of the powers at any given time)

2. Two of the powers are shared with at least one of Shepard's classes, and the final power is a unique squadmate power

3. This unique squadmate power can be unlocked as a bonus power for Shepard by gaining the loyalty of the squadmate in certain ways, either by completing certain missions or talking to the squadmate.

4. Weapon combat for squadmates should play a bigger role in combat, should be comparable to squadmate powers. For now, let's assume it works similar to ME3. Maybe I'll touch on this later.

5. Most squadmate passives grant unique bonuses to that particular squadmate. Also, every squadmate grants a unique passive to the squad. I won't go in depth on what each squad passive does, as I am just posting the basic power redesign for squadmates. Hopefully I'll go over the passives later.

_____________________________________________________________________

===============
Race Against Time Arc
===============

Ashley
Disruptor Ammo
Frag Grenades
Marksman (Unique) - Along with granting its traditional weapon bonuses, weapons can suppress enemies by shooting in their general direction. Suppression reduces enemy movement speed and accuracy.
Alliance Soldier (Passive)

Garrus
Tactical Scan
Overload
Armor Piercing Ammo (Unique)
Turian Agent (Passive)

Tali
Combat Drone
Sabotage
Energy Drain (Unique)
Quarian Machinist (Passive)

Kaidan
Cryo Blast
Impulse
Arc Grenades (Unique)
Alliance Sentinel (Passive)

Liara
Singularity
Warp
Biotic Orbs (Unique) - Although I think the orbs floating look kind of silly, I like the idea of the power.
Asari Scientist (Passive)

Wrex
Biotic Charge
Incendiary Ammo
Barrier (Unique) - Grants damage protection but slows down power use. Also grants power damage proportional to barriers remaining; max barriers gives highest bonus, no barriers gives no bonus. Can be purged to lift nearby enemies. Evolutions include lifting protected non-armored enemies.
Krogan Battlemaster (Passive)

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=============
Suicide Mission Arc
=============

Miranda
Warp
Stasis
Cryo Grenade (Unique) - Unleashes a cloud of cryogenic gas that snap freezes and damages enemies within the vicinity while weakening armor. The cryogenic cloud remains in the area for a duration, freezing and weakening the armor of additional enemies that enter the cloud. Damage only applies when the grenade is first detonated.
Cerberus Officer (Passive)

Jacob - Would personally redesign this character to be a Phoenix Operative.
Stimulant Pack
Lasso
Phase Disruptor (Unique)
Cerberus Operative (Passive)

Mordin
Incinerate
Cryo Blast
Neurotoxin (Unique) - Heavily-revised version of Nightshade Blades. Fires a single poison-tipped blade that deals direct damage and poison damage over time. Paralyzes any organic enemy (50% effectiveness against protected targets). Uses a consumable supply. Evolutions include multiple blades, and increasing effectiveness of fire-based powers.
Salarian Scientist (Passive)

Grunt
Concussive Shot
Incendiary Ammo
Fortification (Unique) - Grants the highest damage protection, can be purged to increase melee damage, speed, radius, and force.
Krogan Berserker (Passive)

Jack
Impulse
Shockwave
Lift Grenade (Unique)
Subject Zero (Passive)

Samara/Morinth
Warp
Throw
Biotic Sphere/Dominate (Unique) - Biotic Sphere should have a buffed radius to balance it for the Singleplayer.
Asari Justicar/Ardat-Yakshi (Passive)

Thane
Warp Ammo
Pull
Shadow Strike (Unique) - ME3 version, but uses default heavy melee attack.
Drell Assassin (Passive)

Legion
Disruptor Ammo
Remote Mine
Sentry Turret (Unique) (Combines Sentry Turret and Geth Turret)
Geth Infiltrator (Passive)

Kasumi
Sabotage
Overload
Flashbang Grenades (Unique) - Incapacitates and damages enemies, while increasing damage dealt to affected enemies.
Master Thief (Passive)

Zaeed
Augmentation
Concussive Shot
Inferno Grenades (Unique)
Mercenary Veteran (Passive)

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============
Galaxy At War Arc
============

James
Frag Grenades
Concussive Shot
Cryo Ammo (Unique)
Arms Master (Passive)

EDI
Snap Freeze
Decoy
Scanner Vision (Unique) - Basically Hunter Mode, but reduced HUD overlay, and reduced range
Unshackled AI (Passive)

Javik
Lasso
Warp Ammo
Dark Sphere (Unique) - Deals warp damage to enemies caught in the sphere, weakening them to biotics. Can be detonated for massive damage and force. Casting has a short cooldown, but detonating will activate a longer cooldown proportional to cast cooldown. Evolutions include warp damage priming enemies for a biotic detonation, or dark sphere detonation detonating biotic effects (Unsure whether to allow the power to detonate itself with the right evolutions chosen).
Vengeful Ancient (Passive)

Omega DLC: A missed opportunity. I thought the Omega DLC could have been better, and this is a great discussion thread about granting more choices for the final outcome of the Omega DLC. The thread also discusses the possibility of bringing along one of the temporary squadmates as a permanent squadmate.

Aria
Augmentation
Pull
Flare (Unique) - Evolutions include working through shields and barriers but at reduced effectiveness.
Biotic Boss (Passive)

Nyreen
Incinerate
Throw
Submission Net (Unique) - Wraps an electric net around the target, dealing damage while enemies are trapped. Unprotected enemies are paralyzed, while protected enemies are slowed down. Enemies that approach close to the target are also shocked but at reduced damage.
Turian Huntress (Passive)

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Total Bonus Powers = 22 powers

Marksman (Ashley)
Armor Piercing Ammo (Garrus)
Energy Drain (Tali)
Arc Grenades (Kaidan)
Biotic Orbs (Liara)
Barrier (Wrex)

Cryo Grenade (Miranda)
Phase Disruptor (Jacob)
Neurotoxin (Mordin)
Fortification (Grunt)
Lift Grenade (Jack)

Biotic Sphere/Dominate (Samara/Morinth)
Shadow Strike (Thane)
Sentry Turret (Legion)
Flashbang Grenade (Thane)
Inferno Grenades (Zaeed)

Cryo Ammo (James)
Scanner Vision (EDI)
Dark Sphere (Javik)
Flare (Aria)
Submission Net (Nyreen)

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Other Bonus Powers = 14 powers
These bonus powers were originally on the squadmates to make 4 powers per squadmate before I reverted to ME2's system. Some of the powers (both old and new) felt like filler powers that were redundant, others had great potential and were sadly dropped due to being limited to three powers. Nevertheless, many of these powers have great potential as a bonus power, but aren't currently tied to any squadmates. Perhaps these powers could be unlocked after certain conditions such as completing missions, beating the game, featured as DLC, or completing challenges in the Multiplayer.

Defense Matrix (EDI) - Felt redundant compared to other defensive powers. The only thing going for it is shield restoration upon purge; I feel like it needs something else to differentiate itself from other defensive powers.

Annihilation Field (Jack) - Great power, but doesn't really go well with squadmates.

Lash (Jacob) - Felt redundant with both Lasso and Pull.

Slam (Miranda) - Felt redundant with many biotic powers.

Reave (Kaidan) - Felt redundant with Warp and Dark Sphere.

Hex Shield (Legion) - Great power, but unsure about its full utility on squadmates.

Dark Channel (Javik) - Felt redundant with Warp and Dark Sphere.

Defense Drone (Tali) - Evolutions include restore shields when attacking shield/synthetic enemies, and damage protection. A very great power with my changes, would gladly give Tali her power back

Biotic Focus (Liara) - Consumable that increases power cooldowns, reduces the delay before barriers can regen, and increases barrier regen speed. Yeah, Biotic Focus is nice name, and this power has great potential.

Phase Shift (Thane) - Heavily revamped Poison Strike, without the poison. Teleports a short distance toward a designated direction, damaging any enemies caught within the trail. Works differently between squadmate and Shepard. Squadmate: Teleports away from current location towards the closest enemy target. Shepard: Teleports towards the direction of current movement, like a dodge.

Warp Grenade (Wrex) - Replaces Cluster Grenade. Creates an unstable Warp field that knocks back enemies while dealing warp damage to weaken enemies to other biotic powers. Can evolve into detonating biotic effects. Felt somewhat redundant with certain biotic powers, but has the potential to be a great power.

Rampage (Grunt) - Supercharge your suit with kinetic energy and sprint forward with the force of a charging Krogan for a short duration and using a cooldown. Deals massive damage and force in a wide radius to stagger even the toughest of enemies, knocks any non-armored enemy away. Ends after duration or when hitting a wall or armored target. Although this power may be somewhat redundant with Biotic Charge and Thane's Phase Shift, who doesn't love a raging Krogan? Also, if done properly, this power doesn't have to be a redundant power.

Missile Launcher (James) - Activate once to start locking-on to a target. Once locked-on, activate again to fire a missile that damages and staggers enemies in a wide radius. Unsure whether if this power should use a cooldown, grenade, or passive (limited by having to lock-on to targets, and maybe slows down power use?). Feels like filler power that isn't really needed.

Explosive Ammo (Zaeed) - Rounds release an explosive payload on impact, dealing a percentage of weapon damage on all enemies within a wide radius. Was a filler power at first, but after some more thought, I felt it could compete with other ammo powers pretty well with proper balancing.

Modifié par Soja57, 14 janvier 2014 - 08:56 .

[Abraham_uk]

Wow.
Epic stuff Soja 57.

I love how you made each squadmate unique. No small feat given how many you have.
Each of the bonus powers fit the roles of each squadmate nicely whilst staying true to the original character concepts.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding your adept advice
Soja 57 and Red Ceasar 97 though I haven't decided what to do with ranks 2 and 3, I have removed "Unarmed Caster". I've also changed the weapon restriction rules so that any class can equip any weapon.


I will be including base stats for each of the powers. (Though I will probably be copying Mass Effect 2 & 3 damage output and cooldowns for each power).
I think the diversity of powers evolution is worth sticking to. If anything I think it's exciting when the mechanics of a power changes upon evolution. The main reason for this, is if one particular player only likes one particular class, they might not be too enthused if they have exactly the same powers with only slight variations for subsequent playthroughs.

I won't be including ME 3's weight capacity cooldown system, simply because it will be a little bit complicated for me to do. I have enough variables as it is.


That said I will be making huge changes to ranks 2 and 3 of each power.

Right now the stat boosts are nothing more than place holders. I am not going to cop out by removing them. I will spend the time to make them interesting.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding combos. I want to add more types of combos. Whether it's elemental effects being fanned by biotics, or incorporating elemental effects into biotic trap and smoke screen, I feel that these make combining powers more interesting. So not all combos will be explosions.

However I want the system to be such that the best results come from cross class combos rather than internal class combos (though the latter will still be available). That way you'll be taking into account what squadmates to bring.

__________________________________________________________________________________


Expect a detailed review on every squad mate of Soja 57's squad mate concepts. It looks fantastic!

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:29 .

[Soja57]

My review on your Adept class:

Warp
The evolutions are great. They significantly impact the power without severely altering the power. Can't comment on ranks 2 and 3 if you are going to change it soon. But without the evolutions, all you have is a direct damage power, which adds no flavor to the Adept class.

Lift
Does Lift deal damage? If so, is it instantaneous or is it damage over time during lift duration? Rank 4 is great because it increases biotic combo effectiveness, but unsure about the utility of Pull vs Heavy Lift. I like how you are incorporating cross-class combos, while it doesn't personally feel Mass Effect-y to me, it does make gameplay interesting with squad selection. Though I think "fanning" sounds kind of silly; how about disperse or diffusion? Overall, great evolutions.

Throw
Shockwave evolution changes Throw too much. Throw is a projectile based power that only takes effect when impacting an enemy, whereas Shockwave immediately takes effect immediately in front of the player, limited by range, and is not projectile-based (in the sense of homing capabilities and infinite range). I am unsure on what Gravity Pulse does.

Is Nova limited to an area-of-effect around the player like ME3? Regardless, eating up Barriers on an Adept is the worse thing that can happen, because the Adept is already a squishy class. I don't know if Biotic Focus alone is enough to remedy this issue. Also unsure as to Ripple, is it basically a Radius bonus?

Biotic Trap
At base, the power is simply a direct damage mine that is affected by biotic upgrades. Im not too fond of this, but the evolutions make the power interesting. Rank 4 could literally be split into two powers; this is a big jump from a direct damage power to a powerful crowd control power. Most of the other ranks are great, the only exception is the drastic switch from cooldown to consumable from 6d.

Biotic Focus
The separate cooldown I find is somewhat tricky. Unsure about the usefullnes of 10% cooldowns, but evolutions obviously make it a lot better. 5d - Biotic Deflection Field: We discussed this in earlier posts; I feel that there is a lot too gamble with this evolution. I'm not particularly a fan of luck-based evolutions (especially Biotic Charge/Nova chance evolutions).

Most of the Rank 6 evolutions don't feel worth the 6 points; Half of the evolutions buff melee, but melee is very risky business on higher difficulties. I rarely melee because it is basically a death sentence, and there are almost always better options. I guess that is a flaw with the melee system; when done properly, those evolutions could work. But the domination evolution seems kind of odd. Phasic Casting seems kind of useless, because most powers can already hit enemies by curving.

Biotic Mastery
I'd prefer if Medi-Gel capacity was increased through other means such as armors and such. I'm still unsure about sneaking mechanics. Perhaps elaborate more in a separate post? Also, having rank 5 based entirely on sneaking may turn off many players who prefer guns blazing or power frenzy than stealth takedowns. The other evolutions look great though.

- - - - - - - - - -

Do note that I am reading this with a ME3 bias. I don't necessarily agree with drastic evolution changes. With that said, I'm reviewing the Adept's powers based on power uniqueness, the consistency of the theme of a single power throughout its evolutions, and meaningful evolution choices that support different playstyles.

For example, both Warp and Lift have evolutions that don't morph the power too much, but Biotic Trap and Throw alter the power drastically, which isn't consistent, reducing the feeling of balance among the powers. Some evolutions could use some work in order to make it worth the point investment, and perhaps switch some evolutions around to allow Ranks to support different playstyles (some may view certain Ranks of powers as obstacles to higher ranks). I think one simple solution that could fix a lot of the issues is clarity on the evolutions and powers.

Afterthoughts: Your post does raise several issues with current ME3, such as sneaking and melee mechanics. I think both of these could use dramatic improvement in order to provide a bigger variety of playstyles. Also cross-class combos are interesting.

- - - - - - - - - -

After completing my squadmate redesigns and establishing most of the powers, I think its time to go in depth on everything, which you have already started Abraham_uk. Perhaps it is my turn to post an in-depth look at one of the classes. Which one should I do first?

Modifié par Soja57, 14 janvier 2014 - 10:24 .

[Abraham_uk]

 Ooh this could be fun.
You know what Soja 57.I'd love for you to do the adept first.
You and Red Ceasar 97 seem to think like combat video game designers.Particularly on the comments you make.Lots of elaboration. Lots of explanation. Lots of helpful constructive criticism.
It's hard work for sure, but you two seem to have the right kind of mindset.Ever considered joining a development team?

Anyway. As promised I will give feedback on your squadmates. The least I can do after your in depth look at my adept.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Concept of Sneaking

Not everyone who uses sneak in combat are assassins. The sneak ability is doesn't quite work like in Skyrim for example, where you rely on stupid AI and kill all of the enemies without them being aware of your presence (or them searching for you and then saying "ah, it was probably nothing).

Sneaking is all about the preemptive strike. Nothing more. You see 10 enemies. You kill the first, and then the other 9 will start searching for you. That gives you an opportunity to kill another enemy. So by the time that you've been spotted you've killed 2 enemies and only have 8 foes to fight. If you're a quick marksman, you can take out more than 2 foes before you're spotted.

Not using the sneak mechanic means you have 10 enemies to fight at once.

So sneak doesn't turn you into an assassin. It will just make you a tactical fighter who values preemptive strikes over head on strikes. The sneaky fighter is the fighter who takes on 8 or less foes head on as opposed to 10.

So sneak is supposed to be realistic. Enemies will first be unaware of your presence. Then the moment you do anything, they will start looking for you, then once they've found you, there is no stealthy get away. You've lost your advantage.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding sneaking mechanics: How they work. (This is my concept. ME 3 doesn't have these mechanics).
All 6 classes have a sneak mode. This is the same as in Skyrim or Fallout.
Press the sneak button/key (this would be pressing inwards the right analogue stick for the console versions).
You are now in sneak mode. Your movement speed will be reduced by 50% and you'll be unable to run.

Now your powers and weapons will make less noise since your omni-tool registers that you're sneaking. This will slightly increase cooldowns for powers (since omnitool will need time to muffle the sound and dull the casting animations) and will reduce weapon damage (since when sneaking, your weapons will be modded with surpressors).


Three eyes will appear on the top right of the screen right.
When a fully opened eye appears and is red instead of grey, this means that not only have you been spotted, you are drawing 100% of the enemy attention. This means that your squadmates are invisible.

When a fully opened eye appears you have been spotted.
When a partially opened eye appears next to a squadmate it means that the enemies are aware of the presence of a squadmate but aren't sure where they are.
When the eye icon is closed, this means you are undetected. This is what you need to perform your stealthy movements.

_______________________________________________________________________________


Sneaking Mechanics:

Now you can cast powers, shoot enemies or hit enemies with your melee attacks. The foe not seeing you will be easier to hit and won't be trying to hit you. Once you attack the enemy, they will start to investigate.

Then as foes investigate your eye will start to open. At this point, even though the enemies don't know where you are precisely, they know you're close by. This means that sudden movements or use of attacks will completely ruin your stealth.

Once enemies start investigating, your eye will not be fully closed until all alerted foes are killed.
Stealth is doable but tricky, so make sure when you hit an enemy when sneaking, you outright kill them.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Critical Hits:

All 6 classes have access to one stealth based critical hit. The shadow strike.
This means that if your stealth eye is fully closes (not even partially open) your heavy melee weapon [be it a biotic palm strike for the adept, a biotic punch for the vanguard, an omni-blade for soldier, an incendiary omni-blade for engineer, a cryo omni-blade for the sentinel or a disruptor omni-blade for the infiltrator] will be used to perform a stealthy back attack.


So to perform your shadow strike:
1) Go into sneak mode,
2) Make sure the stealth eye is fully closed
3) Press and hold the melee button,
4) Let go of the melee button

Voila shadow strike performed.


Weapon based stealth bonuses only apply to the infiltrator, since they have a power called "tactical cloak".
Infiltrators don't have a direct damage power other than flash bang. Flash bang will deal some extra damage when in sneak mode but not much.

Grenades count under weapon damage (not power damage) so using a grenade under tactical cloak will provide damage bonuses.

_______________________________________________________________________________

The difference between sneak mode and tactical cloak

Tactical Cloak makes you harder to see but doesn't muffle sound.
You don't have to sneak around whilst using tactical cloak.
You can move naturally and not draw much attention.
Tactical Cloak provides damage bonuses to weapons (including grenades), powers (very small power damage bonuses and not enough to compete with adepts and engineers) and melee.
In addition to weapon damage output, you gain a headshot damage bonus (that only applies for one shot).
Any action (power usage, melee attack or power usage) will break the cloak.


Sneak Mode muffles sound but doesn't make you harder to see.
Sneak Mode muffles the weapons though use of surpressors [reducing damage output]
Sneak Mode muffles powers sound and makes animations less visible [increasing cooldowns by 10%]
Sneak Mode provides all classes with a unique shadow strike.
Sneak Mode reduces movement speed by 50% and removes the ability to sprint.
Sneak Mode can only be disabled through being toggled off (by pressing sneak button/key again).



Sneak Mode + Tactical Cloak

You are harder to see and your sound output is muffled.
You gain the buffs and debuffs of both modes.

This combination makes the infiltrator the ultimate stealth class, but still allows other classes to engage in stealth (even enjoying their own class specific shadow strike).

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 16 janvier 2014 - 12:16 .