224 réponses à ce sujet

[Soja57]

Adrenaline Rush never restored ammo, it only automatically reloads the weapon. I removed this feature because it stretches Adrenaline rush too far lore-wise, and also because of my redesigned Soldier's powers.

- - - - - - - - -

Concussive Shot doesn't use up ammo. It deals damage based on how much heat is generated in the weapon. A weapon can fire because it has low heat. But as you start to fire more shots, the clip starts getting hot, and eventually you will have to "reload" the thermal clip in order to dissipate that heat.

Concussive Shot takes advantage of this heat mechanic. When the weapon has generated low heat (aka a fresh clip), there isn't much heat to bolster the effect of Concussive Shot, which is fired from your weapon. However, as you fire more shots in your weapon clip, the weapon generates more heat, which also increases Concussive Shot's damage.

I am including an evolution for Concussive Shot that allows it to dissipate the heat of the weapon (or automatically reloading the weapon). These changes makes Concussive Shot make more sense lore-wise, and also makes CS more of a combat power.

[Abraham_uk]

I will deliver a Soldier and Vanguard redesign. However, I must attend to some editing first.
Here is a list (not an exaustive list) of the changes I intend to make to each class.
These changed haven't been implemented yet...



_________________________________________________________________________

The base rank:

The Adept, Engineer and Sentinel will have a strong base rank, so that players can get to grips with how that power works. From then onwards they will have a much better comprehension of what the following ranks do.


This layout will be removed:

Rank 1a
Rank 1b

Rank 2a
Rank 2b

Rank 3a
Rank 3b

Rank 4a
Rank 4b

It will be replaced with this layout:

Rank 1: Unlock

Rank 2a
Rank 2b

Rank 3a
Rank 3b

Rank 4a
Rank 4b

Rank 5a
Rank 5b


_________________________________________________________________________


Adept:

Despersion Combos: I've decided to remove despersion combos. Whilst the combos are actually interesting, they are basically a restriction on people who love the adept class.

The idea was that pull, throw and singularity will desperse flame, ice and electrical effects across the battlefield. Which means you'll have to have squadmates with the following powers:

Incinerate
Cryo Blast
Overload

Incendiary Ammo
Cryo Ammo
Disruptor Ammo

If you don't like the squadmates with those powers then you'll view this as a reason NOT to play the adept.


Other combos: I have no reason to remove physics combos and biotic explosions. However only the adept will be able to setup and detonate these combos.


Removed Evolutions: With the old layout where you could choose two different varients of the same power at rank 1, certain evolutions made sense. However with the new system, I have to flat out remove certain evolutions.
 
Biotic Trap will be removed and replaced with singularity.  The repulsion field power will now be a bonus power.
Levitation will be replaced with pull. The lift power will now be a bonus power.

Dark Channel and Walking Bomb are too "gimicky" so I'll remove those too. Perhaps they'll make great bonus powers. Who knows?



_________________________________________________________________________


Engineer: 

Ice Combos:

The biggest change to the engineer will be the removal of two combos: Steam combos and tech bursts.

The reasons: 

1) In real life steam (whilst dangerous) is nowhere near as destructive as fire. Also shooting electricity at ice is a lot less effective than shooting electricity at water. No amount of mass effect field pseudo science can make these two evolutions plausible.

2) My version of Cryo Blast is supposed to be a "debuff only" type power. It is not supposed to deal any damage at all. So having a damage combo defeats the purpose of this power.

3) We don't need 3 combos that do the same thing (i.e. dps). One will do nicely.

4) It is a "gimick" that takes up evolutions where more meaningful evolutions could be placed.


 
Fire/Lightning Combo:

Of the three combos the Electric Fire combo is interesting. Since it is a combo that deals uniform damage over time to all targets irrespective of protections. 

The combo will work differently.

What the combo does: For 5 seconds, all foes within a 2 metre radius of the target will be affected by an elecctrical fire that deals 20 points of damage per second irrespective of protections.

Setting Up: To set up an electric fire combo you must first use overload on the target.

Detonation: On the target that is affected by overload (it has to be overload, not disruptor ammo), you must launch incinerate on the target.

If incinerate kills the target on impact then the combo will be successfully performed.
Electrical and incendiary effects will disperse across a 2 metre radius to affect multiple targets.


_________________________________________________________________________


Sentinel: 

I really like what I've done with the Sentinel class.
However it is (as mentioned on this thread) far from perfect.
All powers need some tweaking.


Intended Tech Armour Changes:
Cooldown will be triggered upon activating the tech armour.
The cooldown will be much less, to enable the other powers room to breathe.
Auto Purge will be an optional evolution that can be taken by the sentinel at rank 2. If auto purge is not taken, tech armour will remain as a manual purge power.


Intended Supply Pylon Changes:
The supply pylon will be replaced with a supply drone (that will do the same thing as the pylon).
This drone will follow the sentinel, to deliver ammo, health, shields and grenades.


Energy Blast replaces Shockwave:
Do you know what this sentinel needs? An offensive tech power that isn't tech armour.
A blast of energy from the Sentinel's sends out both electrical and incendiary effects.
Foes within a 10 metre (which can be increased to 15 metre) range will be affected by this power.

Intended Stasis Changes:
Shorter durations.
Shorter cooldowns.

Intended Biotic Sphere Changes:
Shorter durations.
Shorter cooldowns. 


_________________________________________________________________________


Infiltrator:

Could use some tweaking, but based on the comments, I get the feeling that it won't be needing the kind of drastic changes being proposed for the Sentinel, Adept and Engineer.


_________________________________________________________________________

Do you agree with these changes?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 21 février 2014 - 05:47 .

[Soja57]

 @Abraham_uk, those changes look good. The only exception is how you handled the tech combos. Fire and "lightning" is a very abstract combo, meaning that it is somewhat difficult to understand how it works lore-wise. It also somewhat pushes Overload and Incinerate away from their intended roles (Overload vs Shields, Incinerate vs Armor. but Electric Fire is good against everything).

Also, having only a 2 m radius when the combo can only occur on death is somewhat useless. The combo will rarely affect any enemy, since the "primed" enemy is already dead, and 2 m is not significant enough to reach nearby enemies to make the combo useful. Amp the radius up to at least 3 meters, though I would consider 4.5 meters (since that is the radius of Tech Bursts in ME3).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anyway, I've got an idea on how to make Shockwave fill a unique role for my Sentinel, but I feel that the mechanics become very complicated as a result. Some input on this would be appreciated.

Shockwave
Generate a forward-facing biotic barrier (similar to a hex shield) in front of you from your palm, blocking damage from the front for a short duration, until destroyed, or manually deactivated. The player can move while the barrier is active but can't shoot or sprint similar to using the Flamer ability. Once the biotic barrier is deactivated, the biotic barrier is released as a powerful forward shockwave that can damage targets, stagger protected targets, and ragdoll unprotected targets, but undergoing a cooldown.

The shockwave can't go through walls, but can travel an infinite range until it hits a wall or enemy.

Rank 1:
-Shockwave Damage = 120 damage
-Shockwave Force = 600 N
-Shockwave Radius = 2.5 meters
-Barrier Duration = 4 seconds
-Barrier Strength = 1200 points
-Cooldown = 6 seconds


Some good strategies for this kind of Shockwave: You can immediately fire off the shockwave rather than wait for the barrier to go down, allowing for Shockwave to be used for pure offensive purposes. This Shockwave is both an offensive and defensive power, you can move towards enemies nearly unscathed, then unleash the shockwave to stagger and damage them. In a way, this is a unique alternative to the Tech Armor Sentinel.

Modifié par Soja57, 22 février 2014 - 07:12 .

[RedCaesar97]

My sincerest apologies for the delay. I meant to respond to some posts a few days ago, but life got in the way.

First up: some feedback on Abraham_uk's Infiltrator build:

1) Cloak:

a) 10 seconds seems a little long for a cooldown unless it has a minimum cooldown like in ME3, and/or large dynamic cooldown bonuses like in ME3 such as weapon weight.

Rank 3b: So unless you select this, sprinting breaks cloak? Seems an odd choice, especially for shotgun Infiltrators, although this evolution would be specifically for shotgunners I suppose.

c) Rank 5b: so if I am using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon, I can fire, stop firing and maybe move somewhere eles, then fire again before breaking cloak? I would change this evolution to just a timed duration for decloak time instead of having it based on shots fired.

2) Decoy: Seems okay for the most part.

a) How would rank 5a Double Decoy work together with Mobile Decoy? Actually, how would Mobile Decoy work at all if it mimics your movements? It would seem that it would always remain 2m in front of you, and could possibly go through cover depending on how you move.

10 second recharge speed. Again, this cooldown seems excessive unless based on ME3 cooldown formula with +200%/-200% weapon weight bonus.

3) Smoke Screen seems pretty balanced on the whole.

4) Proximity Mine:

a) 10 second recharge speed spiel goes here.

Rank 3a: what do you mean "Knock back"? Is that different from stagger? How far are they knocked back? Do you actually mean "Knocked down"?

c) Rank 5b: What do you mean by "deploy 5 mines in a general area"? Can you define "general area"? Is that like 5 mines in a radius around a point on the map (where you aimed)?

5) Disruptor Ammo seems fine. Maybe rank 5b needs a little more damage; I'm not sure.

6) Stealth Mastery: Looks okay.

[RedCaesar97]

Next up: some response to Soja57's Adrenaline Rush tests.

First, I would like to state up front that Soja is going above and beyond the call of duty (but not Call of Duty because half the gaming internet likes to hate on that franchise) and actually testing designs. 

Now while I do have a PC copy of the game, I use it only for multiplayer with friends and my modding skills are non-existent. So my hat goes off to you.


Anyway, I'll try to break this down by section.

Soja57 wrote...

Adrenaline Rush tests
The purpose of this test was to test the viability of Adrenaline Rush as a pure defensive power (removed weapon damage bonus). 
...

The Soldier lost a lot of DPS when tested against my Engineer with +45% power damage from passives and Rank 4 Overload damage, Incinerate damage, explosive Drone, and Rank 1 Sabotage. Both classes primarily used the Avenger Assault Rifle, and a Katana Shotgun as a backup weapon. The Engineer was able to drop enemies faster when combining the Avenger AR and damage powers.

...

Adrenaline Rush's time dilation affects the perception of weapon DPS. Since time is slowed down, the rate of fire of the Avenger is also slowed down to scale with the time dilation. This makes its DPS output seem lower than without Adrenaline Rush, even though the effective DPS stays the same, which makes A. rush feel as though it is gimping the player's damage output.

Of course, this issue doesn't really apply to sniper rifles and shotguns, as these weapons primarily deliver a powerful single shot, where DPS is less relevant. Also, time dilation is more helpful for these weapons: sniper rifles to line up the headshots, and shotguns to hit dodging enemies at close range. Assault Rifles however have less trouble with these issues due to the fast rate of fire.

How much does "perception" DPS matter when designing classes around single player? Should ease-of-use matter as well? How about familiarity? Soldier is the most shootery class, followed by Infiltrator. These would be the classes chosen by shooter fans as they are easier to learn and pick up and play. And considering 80% of the ME player base plays Soldier, it does not seem like DPS would matter.

Now, that being said, as someone explained it to me, Soldier should be about sustained damage, and Infiltrator about spike damage. So maybe I am wrong and Adrenaline Rush needs some weapon damage. 

Personally, I do not mind losing DPS when popping Adrenaline Rush since that is what I would expect from slowing down time including my fire rate. But that is me personally and I am more than willing to admit that I am wrong.

I felt that using the Soldier's Carnage was very beneficial due to dealing a moderate amount of damage and staggering enemies to line up those headshots for sniper rifles, shotguns, and assault rifles. Adrenaline Rush felt too situational, I primarily only used it against Cerberus Turrets since they can't be staggered and to reduce damage from turret fire. Because Carnage was able to stagger targets, it also effectively reduced incoming enemy fire.

I would prefer in a redesign such as yours with more powers than just ammo powers, that using all powers together (and not just Adrenaline Rush) would be a good thing. But I guess what you are saying is that it improved the other powers -- or gimped A-Rush -- to the point that A-Rush seemed second-rate?

Adrenaline Rush as a defensive power may benefit assault rifles in allowing the player to pull off more shots without having to retreat to cover. However, the same could be said for certain shotguns and sniper rifles as well. Overall, Adrenaline Rush without weapon damage felt like it was biased towards shotguns and sniper rifles, when the Soldier class should be good with all 3 primary weapons.

...

Simply put, I would prefer Adrenaline Rush to have some weapon damage output rather than rolling in more weapon damage in passives in order to keep the Soldier's DPS comparable to caster classes. It also keeps the balance between the Soldier's powers. Though how much damage Adrenaline Rush gives is questionable. I personally found that 30% at base, with 50% with Heightened was a good balance for me. This is because my redesigned Soldier now has better power synergy than in ME2 and 3.

I agree that the Adrenaline Rush should benefit all weapons and not just shotguns and sniper rifles. And putting it that way does seem to show that it does favor shotguns and sniper rifles more. But isn't that where things like ammo powers or your Frag Grenades pick up the slack? 

I don't know, maybe you are right. 

[Abraham_uk]

Sorry about the delay.
I've been a bit busy.

Thanks for the feedback Red Ceasar 97, Soja 57 and Capn 233.
Looking forward to Soja 57's Soldier. From what's he's told me, I have a feeling it's going to be epic.

I was going to do a build and review of Red Ceasar 97's Adept. Trouble is the format of the adept's evolutions is completely different to the format of his engineer's evolutions.

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...

-Ammo Pack - Utilize a specialized ammo pack to partially restore spare ammo in weapons and refresh the current clip. Also grants a temporary weapon damage and magazine boost. After the duration ends, weapon magazine size returns to normal, returning extra ammo, if applicable, to the spare ammo pool. Uses a limited consumable supply. Works very similarly to ME3's MP Thermal Clip Packs.

- - - - - - - - - - -

How does Ammo Pack sound? If need be, I can post the base stats of the power. But just judging from the description, is there any balance issues that specifically stand out?

Is it fighting for consumables if you take Frag Grenade as well?

Ammo Pack seems like it can do some serious damage to boss-type characters with the Claymore especially if you keep weapon damage in Adrenaline Rush. Although I am sure the Widow/Javelin could deal some serious damage as well. but that is if you are using it as a pure damage spike power, which is limited since it is a consumable.

But it seems pretty balanced on the whole since it is a consumable and should be used sparingly.

How plentiful fo you envision consumables (grenades) lying around for pickup on missions? If plentiful, then this could mainly be used for damage spikes and not as a way to restore ammo if needed. Using both an SMG and large-clip assault rifle would probably not see this power used much, which is fine in your current idea of more power point limitation.

But I can still see it being used on assault rifles and SMGs. It depends on how much you take cover. If you take cover a lot, then it may not see much use as sustained damage since it could be much easier or convenient to shoot > cover > shoot > cover...

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...
I was going to do a build and review of Red Ceasar 97's Adept. Trouble is the format of the adept's evolutions is completely different to the format of his engineer's evolutions.

Yeah, I started out with an expanded ME2-style system for the Adept before switching to Soja's simplified ME3 style-system for the Engineer.

I should probably edit both at some point, although I feel I should steal borrow steal Soja57's Adept then tweak it.

[RedCaesar97]

Soja57 wrote...

I've got an idea on how to make Shockwave fill a unique role for my Sentinel, but I feel that the mechanics become very complicated as a result. Some input on this would be appreciated.

Shockwave
Generate a forward-facing biotic barrier (similar to a hex shield) in front of you from your palm, blocking damage from the front for a short duration, until destroyed, or manually deactivated. The player can move while the barrier is active but can't shoot or sprint similar to using the Flamer ability. Once the biotic barrier is deactivated, the biotic barrier is released as a powerful forward shockwave that can damage targets, stagger protected targets, and ragdoll unprotected targets, but undergoing a cooldown.

The shockwave can't go through walls, but can travel an infinite range until it hits a wall or enemy.

Rank 1:
-Shockwave Damage = 120 damage
-Shockwave Force = 600 N
-Shockwave Radius = 2.5 meters
-Barrier Duration = 4 seconds
-Barrier Strength = 1200 points
-Cooldown = 6 seconds


Some good strategies for this kind of Shockwave: You can immediately fire off the shockwave rather than wait for the barrier to go down, allowing for Shockwave to be used for pure offensive purposes. This Shockwave is both an offensive and defensive power, you can move towards enemies nearly unscathed, then unleash the shockwave to stagger and damage them. In a way, this is a unique alternative to the Tech Armor Sentinel.

Some questions:
1) "The shockwave can't go through walls, but can travel an infinite range until it hits a wall or enemy." 
ME2 and ME3 shockwave can go through walls and cover, and can hit multiple enemies. this implies that it will stop if it hits a wall -- including low cover? -- and can only hit one enemy.

2) The duration is 4 seconds. I assume that this can be increased through duration bonuses? Conceivably, you can move until your shields are gone, then deploy the barrier and keep moving until you find cover or your barrier replenishes. Would that conceivably be too powerful as you are potentially indestructible if abused? "Only" 1200 barrier strength though which I recall is a decent but not too strong amount of barrier in your tests.

Now it has the potential for two evolutions for a more offensive Shockwave, and two other evolutions for a more defensive Shockwave. 


I actually had a similar idea as a variation of Nyreen's (Omega DLC) biotic bubble power, where you could choose a "Shockwave" evolution. But your idea sounds better.

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...
<snip>

Do you agree with these changes?

The changes look good.

I will echo Soja57's comments and say that radius evolutions for combos need to be at least 3m. I would say 5m at most. 2m is probably too small, especially if you happen to have radius evolutions in powers that exceed that 2m, which makes them better than combos.

For powers, ME2 used 3m as the max radius for most powes (such as Incinerate, Overload, Cryo Blast, Pull, Throw, Singularity). Powers with a default radius typically had a 1.5m radius and it rarely hit anyone other than the initial target. I would say 3m is the sweet spot, maybe 2.5 if you do not want the radius too powerful. If you do go the Tech combo route, then having a larger radius than the power is strongly recommended, about 1.5 - 2x as large as the power radius. 

[RedCaesar97]

Originally with my ideas, I was going to share powers amongst classes (I have no problem with that as long as classes are still relatively balanced) but I am thinking of conceding that you guys have the right idea and should have 6 distinct classes.

I should probably fix my Adept and Engineer concepts first based on your feedback, then design the other classes, although I feel I would be stealing some ideas from Abraham_uk and Soja57 at this point, even if I had similar ideas in my head already. Oh well.

[Soja57]

@RedCaesar97

Soldier is perhaps the most accessible class to most players because it is a straightforward class. For example. the Soldier has the least amount of active powers, and revolves more around weapon use (which as you said, is familiar with shooter fans) than the other classes.

I don't understand your comparison of 80% of the player fanbase using Soldier and DPS not mattering. Soldier is perhaps the most heavily dependent on DPS than any other class. Infiltrators deal spike damage with Cloak and sniper rifles or shotguns, Vanguards with Charge + Nova/Shotgun, and caster classes with powers, which are all based more on instant damage.

I do believe that the Soldier should be based heavily around sustained damage, making Assault Rifles the best choice for the Soldier class. Basically, I sort of want each combat class to be the best with a specific weapon class, but overall decent with most weapons.

Carnage was beneficial because it staggered enemies while providing a consistent means of damage output. The stagger helps lining up shots while somewhat reducing incoming fire from the staggered enemies.

Adrenaline Rush did similar things to Carnage (help line up shots, and reduce incoming fire with time dilation and damage reduction), but with a longer cooldown and also without any damage output.

- - - - - - - - -

Ammo Pack shares the same "pool" as Frag Grenades. I hated how ME2 and ME3 gave too much ammo, I would always mod so that enemies didn't drop ammo, therefore ammo would only be obtained from weapon lockers or ammo boxes. Ammo should be limited to encourage players to carry more weapons and to also use weapons more strategically (combining weapons and powers, and obtaining headshots).

I think Assault Rifles and SMGs can benefit from this power, when considering the magazine boost (which wouldn't affect single shot weapons), and incorporates Marksman's rate of fire and accuracy traits in evolutions as well.

- - - - - - - - -

Regarding my Shockwave...Perhaps I overlooked how useless radius would be if it couldn't go through enemies. Perhaps I will put a range cap but allow it to "wall hack". Maybe 4 seconds may be too long. 3 seconds is a good balance, and it can be affected by duration bonuses.

But do take note that it has a 6 second cooldown, so it isn't easily spammable.

Modifié par Soja57, 23 février 2014 - 09:30 .

[capn233]

It depends on what Soldier you are talking about. The ME1 Soldier was more of a tank and played second fiddle to the Infiltrator weapon DPS wise. In ME2 it was a bit more complicated, but he still had good killing efficiency even if tanking took a step back. For ME3, you don't have any semblance of tanking in the base class, the 25% DR in Hardened AR is laughable, and the "Shield Boost" evolution which gives 50% of base shields is near useless given how the gates work, and given the evo to which it sits opposed.

Basically what I am getting at is that you don't have to make the Soldier about pure weapon DPS, since he really wasn't that way before. In ME2 he had the best weapon damage bonus (base ARush 100%...), but that was to balance the time dilation so that real time metrics were the same. You could argue there is precedent no matter what you choose, so as long as you have a coherent system it should be fine.

If you want Soldier to be the best with automatics, there are several things you need to do. For one thing, you can leave a damage bonus in Adrenaline Rush and ensure that the duration of the bonus is significantly longer than that of Cloak or any Weapon Synergy in Charge. Essentially Cloak and Charge bonuses should be extremely short and essentially last one shot. Next is you can give soldier bonuses to stability and possibly accuracy, which will be needed for automatics (just make sure that your accuracy system does not apply these bonuses to shotguns). That's really about it unless you want to give explicit bonuses to one weapon class, as they do with Vanguard and Infiltrator in ME3.

[Soja57]

@capn233

I don't really like giving explicit weapon bonuses (i.e. Shotgun Damage +25%), as it somewhat discourages varied weapon loadouts. But I agree that stability bonuses would be highly beneficial for the Soldier and Assault Rifle combo.

I don't know about accuracy; it would really help, but I feel that bonuses should apply to all weapons, not just assault rifles. I think we all know what happens when shotguns get to much accuracy bonuses, therefore I think I will just leave accuracy bonuses to weapon mods.

I kind of want the Soldier to have three distinguishable builds, the "Glass Cannon" build, the "Tank Soldier" build, and the Soldier in between. These three builds fit the three weapon classes, sniper rifle, shotgun, and assault rifles. Also, I plan on incorporating a unique "caster" build for the Soldier for those who like using Concussive Shot and Frag Grenades.

- - - - - - - - - -

The issue is that coming up with specializations for the Soldier is difficult. Though I have an idea...ME1 had specializations that had evolutions directly affect certain powers, such as Immunity Specialization in the Shock Trooper tree. I'm thinking of granting some unique bonuses to certain powers in specializations.

For example, Adrenaline Rush by itself has Damage Protection and Shield Boost. In the Shock Trooper tree, Adrenaline Rush may also grant 2x health (50% Damage Protection to health). Or the Commando tree may give Adrenaline Rush weapon stability bonuses, which would benefit assault rifles during A-Rush.

This sort of goes along with my old idea of "7th evolution" that I proposed awhile back for ME3 specialization ideas. Though rather than force the user to spend a bunch of points on an extra evolution, perhaps it is better to just roll the evolution into specializations.

Modifié par Soja57, 24 février 2014 - 04:01 .

[capn233]

If you are redesigning the game, you don't have to allow powers or passives that grant accuracy bonuses to affect shotguns. The easy way to implement this is to give shotgun's their own accuracy variable called "pattern" or even "accuracy2" and then create one shotgun mod that affects this variable. If BW did this in ME3 for the shotguns and also the Talon it would have drastically improved the balance of Hunter Mode, Marksman, the Talon, and a couple other shotguns.

If you do the above, then hypothetically the soldier's accuracy bonuses would apply to SMG's, Pistols, and Sniper Rifles, but the later two classes tend to be accurate anyway so the bonus doesn't help relative to say an infiltrator, and for the SMG I would say that if AR's are differentiated from SMG's correctly (ie, heavier with better all around damage, and better base accuracy), then Soldier would tend towards them anyway.

[Abraham_uk]

Welcome back.

New forum, some amazing new changes (I can finally change my profile picture without either choosing a default picture, a Dragon Age Origins picture or go through that convoluted method).

 

 

 

I will be making some changes to my infiltrator tomorrow.

I look forward to the continuation of this thread.

 

Capn 233, Red Ceasar 97, Soja 57. Thank you all for your creative suggestions, imaginative discussions and detailed constructive feedback.

[Abraham_uk]

Oh dear.

 

Looks like I will have to change all the hyperlinks.

On the first page there are hyperlinks to everyone's concepts.

 

Trouble is that they are now hyperlinks to the old forum.

I will be fixing this when eventually get round to it.

[Soja57]

Sorry that I haven't posted in awhile. Been busy with life.

 

Wow, the new forum looks great. Now I can have a cool looking N7 instead of the default one. Too bad that the links in this thread are now "broken". And my sig is gone now, noooo!

 

Haven't been able to work on my class redesigns lately. Don't know if I'll get to it anytime soon, but I will still check this thread regularly.

[RedCaesar97]

Finally finished my ME1 playthrough.

 

I am going to try to edit my Engineer and Adept this weekend.

 

I may or may not spend some time coming up with an Infiltrator concept. I have some ideas bouncing around in my head. I need some more time tinkering with a Soldier idea as well, since I am no longer plan to have classes with shared powers. So I need some extra time to have inspiration hit me. 

 

Let's face it, Adept and Engineer are probably the easiest to draft ideas for. I think we all agreed that Adept has Singularity, Warp, Pull, and Throw; and Engineer has Overload, Incinerate, Combat Drone, and Cryo Blast. It is just a matter of deciding what the fifth power for each class would be, which is where we have differing ideas.

[Soja57]

I finished my Soldier's powers, but struggling with the passives and specializations, therefore I have omitted these. For now, the purpose is to focus on the Soldier's powers and then perhaps later discuss handling passives and specializations.

 

1. Ammo powers that apply their own effect based on chance (such as stun or panic chance) use a specific formula, and is based primarily on the equipped weapon's rate of fire and the ammo rating.

 

Ammo Proc Chance = Ammo Rating * [1 / (Rate of Fire / 60)]

 

2. Ammo for weapons should be more limited, not for the sake of my powers, but for the sake of gameplay. I have discussed how the player is limited to 3 weapons, with a sidearm as a requirement. Ammo drops less frequently, meaning the only reliable way to restore ammo is through ammo boxes or weapon lockers.

 

3. The limitation on ammo is to reinforce using headshots to takedown enemies, and using weapons strategically with powers. Also, less ammo means players have to find the right combination of weapons and the role of each weapon. For example, the Widow deals massive damage but has low ammo, therefore it is best used on mid-tier enemies instead of potentially overkilling low-tier enemies; a pistol or SMG may be better suited for this. Though perhaps with the right builds and equipment, the Widow can have enough ammo for multiple firefights.

 

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Health

-Capacity = 600 health (3 segments, 200 health per segment)

-Regeneration = 6 seconds (4 second delay, 2 seconds per segment)

 

Shields

-Capacity = 600 shields

-Regeneration = 8 seconds (4 second delay, 25% restored per second)

 

Heavy Melee: Omni-Blade Attack

Flash fabricate an omni-blade from your omni-tool to impale enemies and deal heavy damage.

-Damage = 600 damage

 

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Adrenaline Rush

Temporarily heighten your reflexes, allowing you to line up the perfect shot. Can be deactivated at any time, but cooldown remains constant. Unlike in ME3, does not replenish current thermal clip.

 

Rank 1: Adrenaline Rush

-Time Dilation = 30%

-Duration = 5 seconds

-Weapon Damage Bonus = 30%

-Cooldown = 6 seconds

 

Rank 2: Cooldown

-Cooldown +20%

 

Rank 3: 

-Duration +25%

 

Rank 4: 

 

a. Damage

-Time Dilation +20%

-Weapon Damage Bonus +20%

 

b. Hardening

-Damage Protection +30%

 

Rank 5:

 

a. Focus

-Weapon Stability +30%

-Duration +25%

-Melee Damage +25%

 

b. Shield Boost

-Boosts the strength of total shields by 1.5x

 

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Ammo Pack

Utilize a specialized ammo pack to partially restore spare ammo in weapons and refresh the current clip. Also grants a temporary weapon damage and magazine boost. After the duration ends, weapon magazine size returns to normal, returning extra ammo, if applicable, to the spare ammo pool.

 

Rank 1: Ammo Pack

 

-Spare Ammo Restored = 25% Max Spare Ammo

-Weapon Damage Bonus = +15%

-Magazine Size Bonus = +25%

-Duration = 5 seconds

-Ammo Pack Capacity = 2 Packs

 

Rank 2: Capacity

-Ammo Pack Capacity +1

 

Rank 3: Weapon Bonus

-Weapon Damage & Magazine Bonus +10%

 

Rank 4: 

 

a. Duration

-Duration +50%

 

b. Weapon Marksman

-Weapon Rate of Fire & Accuracy +25%

 

Rank 5:

 

a. Weapon Boost

-Weapon Damage & Magazine Bonus +15%

 

b. Capacity

-Spare Ammo Restored +25%

-Ammo Pack Capacity +1

 

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Concussive Shot

Fire a concentrated blast from your weapon that can stagger affected enemies and deal damage proportional to heat generated in current weapon clip (more shots used of current clip yields a higher damage output). Total damage consists of two damage calls; impact damage which is a constant variable, and heat damage which is dependent on current ammo in clip (but does not use ammo). Heat damage does not apply when a weapon has run out of all "ammo".

 

Rank 1: Concussive Shot

-Impact Damage = 90 damage

-Heat Damage = Maximum +100% of Impact Damage (+100% with a currently empty clip, +0% for full clip)

-Impact Radius = 1 meter

-Cooldown = 4.5 seconds

 

Rank 2: Cooldown

-Cooldown +20%

 

Rank 3: 

-Damage +20%

 

Rank 4: 

 

a. Heavy Concussive Shot

-Damage +30%

-Concussive Shot can knock down unprotected targets

 

b. Concussive Blast

-Impact Radius +2 meters

 

Rank 5:

 

a. Weapon Synergy

-Concussive Shot dissipates the heat within the current weapon clip, automatically "reloading" the weapon, while granting a temporary weapon damage bonus.

-Weapon Damage Bonus +20%

-Weapon Bonus Duration = 3 seconds

 

b. Amplification

-Concussive Shot takes on the properties of the currently equipped ammo power.

 

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Frag Grenade

Throw this grenade that releases shrapnel to deal massive damage and stagger any nearby target. Detonates 1 second after first contact with a surface.

 

Rank 1: Frag Grenade

-Damage = 450 damage

-Radius = 5 meters

-Detonation Timer = 1 second

-Grenade Capacity = 2 Grenades

 

Rank 2: Grenade Capacity

-Grenade Capacity +1

 

Rank 3: 

-Damage +20%

 

Rank 4: 

 

a. Efficient Grenades

-Grenade Capacity +1

-Radius +30%

 

b. Proximity Grenade

-Frag Grenades now stick to any object, including enemies, and grants a damage bonus to enemies that are "stuck" by this grenade. If placed on a surface, the grenade remains "live" and detonates only when an enemy approaches nearby.

-Enemy Stuck Damage Bonus = 1.5x Total Damage

 

Rank 5:

 

a. Amplification

-Frag Grenades takes on the properties of the currently equipped ammo power.

 

b. Multi-Frag

-Split a frag grenade into a cluster of grenades that are fired in a shotgun-like pattern from an omni-gauntlet, allowing the grenades to be launched farther and cover a wide area, but each individual grenade has reduced damage output.

-Grenades Launched = 4

-Grenade Damage = 0.4x

 

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Incendiary Ammo

Empower your weapon to fire shots that combust into flames on impact, dealing bonus instant damage vs synthetics, organics, and armor, and extra damage over time vs armor and organics. Ineffective vs shields and barriers. Has a chance to panic organic targets.

 

Rank 1: Incendiary Ammo

-Instant Damage = +7.5% of Weapon Damage

-Armor/Organic Burn Damage = +7.5% weapon damage per second of duration (22.5% Total)

-Organic Panic Chance Rating = 1.0 (Basis for ammo proc formula)

-Duration = 3 seconds

 

Rank 2: Panic Chance

-Organic Panic Chance +25%

 

Rank 3: Damage

-Instant Damage +3.75%

-Armor/Organic Burn Damage +3.75%

 

Rank 4: 

 

a. Headshot

-Headshots deal increased damage and increases panic chance

-Headshot Damage +25%

-Headshot Panic Chance = 1.5x Panic Chance

 

b. Squad Incendiary Ammo

-Squadmates gain the effects of Incendiary Ammo but at 0.5x effectiveness.

 

Rank 5:

 

a. Enhanced Incendiary Ammo

-Instant Damage = +7.5% of Weapon Damage

-Armor/Organic Burn Damage = +7.5% weapon damage per second of duration

 

b. Explosive Incendiary Ammo

-Incendiary Ammo bursts on impact for every shot, applying its effects to burn nearby enemies and potentially panicking multiple organic enemies. Ineffective vs shields and barriers. Also increases panic chance.

-Organic Panic Chance +25%

-Burst Radius = 3 meters

 

[Abraham_uk]

Epic.

 

I will be giving your soldier the "build and review" that it deserves.

It looks good.

Once I have fixed my 4 classes I shall proceed to the last two (soldier and vanguard).

[RedCaesar97]

@Soja57: 

 

Here are my thoughts on your Soldier build:

 

 

1) Ammo power proc chance:

 

Ideally, I think the proc chance (% chance to apply an effect) should be constant on all weapons, but since you are testing with a modded ME3, you obviously do not have much choice in the matter of the formula used.

 

It just seems dumb to me that high rate-of-fire weapons should have the best chance of applying ammo effects, but instead we get low rate-of-fire weapons that can proc on every single shot. 

 

2) Limited ammo:

Ammo for weapons should be more limited, not for the sake of my powers, but for the sake of gameplay. ... Ammo drops less frequently, meaning the only reliable way to restore ammo is through ammo boxes or weapon lockers.

 

The limitation on ammo is to reinforce using headshots to takedown enemies, and using weapons strategically with powers. Also, less ammo means players have to find the right combination of weapons and the role of each weapon. For example, the Widow deals massive damage but has low ammo, therefore it is best used on mid-tier enemies instead of potentially overkilling low-tier enemies; a pistol or SMG may be better suited for this. Though perhaps with the right builds and equipment, the Widow can have enough ammo for multiple firefights.

 

Not sure how I feel about this. 

 

I think some weapons have too much ammo, SMGs in particular.

On the other hand, I think trying to re-inforce headshots is a bad idea, particularly for inaccurate weapons such as SMGs.

 

Hmmm. I think I need to think about it some more but at the very least, I think it is a very good step in the right direction. 

 

3) Adrenaline Rush:

  a) I would be tempted to drop the base duration down from 5s to 4s.

 

  For rank 5b, what do you mean by "Boosts the strength of total shields by 1.5x"? Does that mean it adds +150% shields or +50% shields? Does that boost off of base shields or current total shields?

 

4) Ammo pack: seems pretty balanced to me. 

 

5) concussive Shot: 

  a) Base damage is 90. I assume 100 damage was too much based on your tests? (90 just seems like an odd number to me. But I assume you have a good reason.)

 

  So Concussive Shot will not knock down an enemy unless you take rank 4a. An interesting design choice, but I assume that has to do with making it an attractive choice versus the radius evolution. (And not an unprecedented choice; ME3 had powers that had "knock down" evolutions.) I think this is a good design choice as it makes this evolution meaningful and prevents C-shot from overlapping with Throw immediately.

 

  c) Rank 5a Weapon Synergy seems interesting. I wonder how you came up with that idea?

 

6) Frag Grenade: 

  a) I am glad there is an actual detonation timer. ME3 was weird where there was a timer unless it hit an enemy, in which clase it blew up immediately.

 

I assume 1 second was the optimum detonation time for your tests? It has been a while since I have played another shooter, so I cannot remember if they have a similar 1s detonation time or not. I was thinking 2s may  be better, but I am likely wrong on this matter.

 

  The rest of the evolutions look fine to me. "Multi-Frag"? Someone has been playing the N7 Destroyer lately... 

 

7) Incendiary Ammo: I would consider moving the Squad evolution to opposite the Explosive evolution. I think Headshot versus Enhanced would make for a better evolution choice at rank 4.

 

 

Anyway, I think it is very well designed. We had already discussed weapon damage in A-Rush previously so I will not get into that.

 

The Soldier passives are certainly tough. I suppose you could still put "Shock Trooper" as a health+shields and melee bonuses like your other class desgins. The other passives are harder. Do you give the Soldier the opportunity for as much possible power damage in passives as the other classes? What about cooldown? What about weapon damage or other possible combat abilities (storm speed, stability, melee, ammo capacity...)? 

 

All very difficult. I am beginning to think that the powers are the easiest to design, but the passives are the hardest since they can really help define the class much more than the power sets.

[Soja57]

@RedCaesar97

 

I am mainly following ME3's formula for ammo proccing, since otherwise we don't know how balanced ammo proc would be with a constant proc chance across all weapons. I would like to discuss ammo proc a little more.

 

If I am using a Viper (60 ROF), than I can proc on every shot. Doesn't that mean I could panic lock an organic enemy with incendiary ammo? Sure, panic only works on health, but if this is the case, than this is too easy to shut down basic and mid tier enemies.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Well, SMGs are meant to be used at closer ranges than Assault Rifles. I think the player is doing something wrong if they can't obtain a single headshot with SMG's (either crappy aiming or using SMG at too far of a distance). Even by spraying and praying, the player can at least earn a few headshots if they use SMG's at their intended range. AR's and SR's should be used at longer ranges, and possibly even pistols.

 

ARush at 5 seconds felt like a good balance for me, and that is how it is in ME2. Also, if the duration is too short, than it starts slipping towards one shot weapons rather than DPS-based weapons when you take time dilation into consideration. Though I don't think 4 seconds is too bad.

 

Shield Boost means it multiplies your total shields by 1.5x. The player has base 600, and let's say that the player has +50% from passives for a total of 900 shields. The 1.5x would give total shields a boost for 1350 shields. I don't like how certain evolutions refer to the base values which may cause confusion. Being a multiplier is more simple and easy to understand. Don't know if this evolution should restore shields or simply make shields tougher.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Concussive Shot: I like giving numbers that are base 3 so that it is more friendly to powers of 3 and 6. For example, base Incinerate deals damage over 3 seconds. However, the damage dealt per second (DPS) may be an unfriendly number, such as 33.33333 (100 total damage). Giving values that are divisible by 3 avoids this issue. I just like simple calculations.

 

I thought CS being able to knock down enemies overlaps too much with Throw and gives too much CC (that is a job for biotics or tech). The stagger is good enough to line up shots without being overpowered in terms of CC, and also makes evolution choices more interesting.

 

Weapon Synergy came about after pondering how to make CS and Carnage fit more as combat powers. Since Carnage is capable of burning enemies, I wondered: "hmm...weapons generate heat, Carnage is shot from the weapon, and Carnage can burn enemies, therefore Carnage uses the weapon's heat to burn enemies." And just twisted that line of thought with ARush's ability to auto-reload. It made no sense how ARush could auto-reload weapons, but I liked the idea of auto-reload as it helped with weapon usage.

 

Human and Turian Soldier exploit this with ARush and Marksman, which is part of what makes these MP classes awesome weapon users.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Frag Grenades: ME3 always had a 1 second timer, unless of course if it hits an enemy directly; I am just showing it so that players can take advantage of the 1 second timer. One second is a good balance; impact (or instant detonate) makes grenades too easy to use, and makes sticky evolution useless.

 

Too long of a duration however allows enemies to potentially walk away (if the AI are smart, though even with dumb AI they could still possibly walk away to reposition rather than hide from grenade). Also, since the grenade doesn't instantly detonate when hitting the enemies, 2 seconds punishes the player too much for impacting the grenade unless proximity has been taken. I play a lot of Halo, and the frag grenades always had 1 second timer which felt like a good balance and also promoted skilled grenade throws.

 

With Proximity evolution, the grenades would take 1 second upon detecting an enemy to explode, allowing it to potentially hit multiple enemies rather than just the detected enemy (the 1 second allows enemies to potentially bunch up during the timer).

 

I like playing the N7 Destroyer, one of most favorite MP kits. Also, multi-frags is a good alternative rather than just a direct "damage and radius evolution". Also, imagine proximity evolution and multi-frag, you could set up a mine field. And imagine sticking an Atlas with proximity and multi-frag, that would deal some insane amount of damage.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Incendiary Ammo: I think it works well both ways. One thing I had in mind was that the opposing evolution to squad for ammo powers would be something that would be difficult to measure for squadmates. I don't know if squadmates consistently headshot enemies.

 

For example, Vanguard's Warp Ammo opposing evo is Power bonus. If this were given to squadmates, it is more difficult for the player to know when the bonus is applied unless they carefully watch squadmates or if the player shoots enemies. Too much micromanaging.

 

Also, I want ammo powers to always support the one shot kill build. If Explosive was in the same rank as Squad, the one shot kill build may have a "blank" rank (meaning a rank that doesn't necessarily support the build). I made this mistake on the Vanguard...but the Infiltrator's Disruptor Ammo arguably makes that class the best one shot rifle class...

 

- - - - - - - -

 

I was thinking of pure health/shields/melee for Shock Trooper, and Weapon Damage for Commando, but then Shock Trooper potentially loses too much weapon DPS, and Commando doesn't have enough health/shields to use DPS-based weapons such as AR's and SMG's effectively. I also want to incorporate some power bonuses (not necessarily power cooldowns), but something that would benefit the caster Soldier (CS and Frags). I know some people would like to play this way, especially with my changes to Frags and CS.

[RedCaesar97]

If I am using a Viper (60 ROF), than I can proc on every shot. Doesn't that mean I could panic lock an organic enemy with incendiary ammo? Sure, panic only works on health, but if this is the case, than this is too easy to shut down basic and mid tier enemies.

And that is my problem. Low rate-of-fire weapons are generally high-damage weapons, so why have both high damage AND proc ammo CC constantly?

The Viper had this "problem" in ME3. Despite being a generally crappy weapon, with Disruptor Ammo it would stun and prime for tech bursts on every single shot, even on shielded enemies. The Saber would do the same thing and it is a good weapon.
 

Shield Boost means it multiplies your total shields by 1.5x. The player has base 600, and let's say that the player has +50% from passives for a total of 900 shields. The 1.5x would give total shields a boost for 1350 shields. I don't like how certain evolutions refer to the base values which may cause confusion. Being a multiplier is more simple and easy to understand. Don't know if this evolution should restore shields or simply make shields tougher.

 

Just multiplying total shields is not good. You actually need to add shields to make the evolution useful.

 

For example:

1) If I have 100 shields and I hit A-Rush, my total available shields may go up, but I still only have 100 shields and no way to get my new max shield number.

 

2) If I have 0 shields and I hit A-Rush, I still have 0 shields even though my total max shields went up.

 

I could go on.
 

Concussive Shot: I like giving numbers that are base 3 so that it is more friendly to powers of 3 and 6. For example, base Incinerate deals damage over 3 seconds. However, the damage dealt per second (DPS) may be an unfriendly number, such as 33.33333 (100 total damage). Giving values that are divisible by 3 avoids this issue. I just like simple calculations.

Oh I see. That makes a lot of sense. Cool.

 

Weapon Synergy came about after pondering how to make CS and Carnage fit more as combat powers. Since Carnage is capable of burning enemies, I wondered: "hmm...weapons generate heat, Carnage is shot from the weapon, and Carnage can burn enemies, therefore Carnage uses the weapon's heat to burn enemies."

I would consider removing Carnage completely and then renaming "Concussive Shot" to "Carnage". They pretty much fill the same role at this point (unless you have a competing idea for Carnage). "Carnage" sounds cooler anyway.
 
 

Frag Grenades: ME3 always had a 1 second timer...
 
I play a lot of Halo, and the frag grenades always had 1 second timer which felt like a good balance and also promoted skilled grenade throws.

 
Yeah, I was trying to remember what Halo did and how Flashbang worked in ME2 but it was late and I could not be bother to look it up. 1 second is fine.

[RedCaesar97]

I was thinking of pure health/shields/melee for Shock Trooper, and Weapon Damage for Commando, but then Shock Trooper potentially loses too much weapon DPS, and Commando doesn't have enough health/shields to use DPS-based weapons such as AR's and SMG's effectively. I also want to incorporate some power bonuses (not necessarily power cooldowns), but something that would benefit the caster Soldier (CS and Frags). I know some people would like to play this way, especially with my changes to Frags and CS.

 

Maybe design Commando to shotguns and sniper rifles: hard, fast strikes. So weapon damage, (ammo) power damage, running speed. Things like that

 

Maybe design Shock Trooper to assault rifles and SMGs: staying out of cover for longer periods to dish out the hurt. So health and shields. stability, Ammo proc chance, ammo capacity.