303 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

Hahaue wrote...

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

I've seen people refuse to play as FemShep.

I have a friend who won't play FemShep cause he thinks she sounds "too much like a ******." I was really unimpressed with him.

I assume by "really unimpressed with him" you mean you "performed a vasectomy on him with my boot." That's the only way I won't be really unimpressed with you.

As to the question: I'd say yes. Personally, strong women scare me a bit. Take Bayonetta, for instance. Being a mere mortal, myself, I can only imagine that thrusting into pure, unadulterated awesome would hurt my penis something awful. Phallic damage is, in fact, intimidating.

[Remmak]

I don't like Subject Zero because I find her the exact opposite of strong. Frankly, she's pathetic. There's a big difference between a victim and survivor, and Miss Potty Mouth is still in pity-me mode. Ever heard "the abused become the abusers"? It's because some victims feel like they can violate other people's rights because theirs have been violated. They feel like it's their "right" and that the people they pick on should stand up for themselves because nobody stood up for them when they were being hurt - even if the person they are picking is weaker than them. In this way they become what they hate.



All the tattoos and acting out are attempts at attention seeking, getting some kind of validation. If you're treated like you're nothing for long enough you start to believe it, and you lack a solid identity. So you start grasping symbols. Your hairstyle, your choice in clothing, your countless tattoos. These help you remember who you are. They are the coat of arms you present the hostile world. They are your white flag SOS. They are what ultimately keep you weak, because the only person these things have meaning to is yourself. You're trying to make people see "you" but that's not you.



Yeah. I've been there and done that. Sorry if I got too deep for anyone.

[lokiarchetype]

Remmak wrote...

I don't like Subject Zero because I find her the exact opposite of strong. Frankly, she's pathetic. There's a big difference between a victim and survivor, and Miss Potty Mouth is still in pity-me mode. Ever heard "the abused become the abusers"? It's because some victims feel like they can violate other people's rights because theirs have been violated. They feel like it's their "right" and that the people they pick on should stand up for themselves because nobody stood up for them when they were being hurt - even if the person they are picking is weaker than them. In this way they become what they hate.

All the tattoos and acting out are attempts at attention seeking, getting some kind of validation. If you're treated like you're nothing for long enough you start to believe it, and you lack a solid identity. So you start grasping symbols. Your hairstyle, your choice in clothing, your countless tattoos. These help you remember who you are. They are the coat of arms you present the hostile world. They are your white flag SOS. They are what ultimately keep you weak, because the only person these things have meaning to is yourself. You're trying to make people see "you" but that's not you.

Yeah. I've been there and done that. Sorry if I got too deep for anyone.

I wouldn't rule out the numerous tattoos as a method to obscure the medical tattoos in order to help cover that memory up, essentially an attempt to "write-over" what you can't erase.

[Nimander]

I don't like SuZe so far because she seems to be a 90s Anti-Hero cliche.



I figure I'll like her in the game as I trust Bioware to /not/ do something as trite as a 90s Anti-Hero cliche.



I think asking if gamers are scared and that's why is begging the question and not the best way to ask the question.

[Firndeloth]

For anyone who says "you wouldn't complain if Subect Zero was a man" ... I am one gamer who finds the "I'm a psychopath hear me roar" character type obnoxious in all genders. I really don't have a problem with her "strong" aspects. I have a problem with how little clothing she wears, how many tatoos she wears, and a whole bunch of other things. Some of these are problems I have with character design, others are not complaints with the design but rather just matters of taste (the tatoo thing, for example, is not a complaint against Bioware, just something I don't care for personally).



The sorts of things that we characterize as strong in a woman frighten me every bit as much as how frequently we as a society decide that women are not strong. We find emotional depth to be weak. We associate controlling unwarranted aggression with weakness. The trouble isn't that we are afraid of strong women as a society, but that our versions of strong women tend to be as warped as our conceptions of strong men. Arguing that my disliking purportedly strong female characters are sexist in nature is just a way of sidestepping the inherent sexism in the original consideration of strength and how a woman needs to behave to posses it. The answer is far too often "more like the stereotypical strong male, but sexier." American culture doesn't understand strength. It understands crassness and brutality. Many American individuals are capable of understanding strength, however. It is when we apply our collective bias to our media that that bias emerges in its most offensive glory. Hiding behind accusations of sexism doesn't change the core issue at hand, and does nothing to address the concerns I have with so-called strong women in our media.



Not being familiar with the character Subject Zero (this will be remedied sometime after the 26th), I don't know if I find her characterization to be of the sexist sort or if she's merely a psychopathic, aggressive woman who likes to take what she wants. The other key bit of understanding here is that Subject Zero isn't a "strong woman." From what Bioware has said about her up to now, it doesn't seem as though she is a "strong" person at all. She is hiding behind animal fury and arrogant devil-may-care posturing because she doesn't know how else to behave ... and the reason she doesn't know how else to behave is apparently forthcoming. Psychologically, that makes her almost childish in some ways, reverting and lashing out to escape from something. Or maybe she just likes being wild. I don't know. I'm just speculating at this point, and I won't bother defending these speculations if you attack them, because I haven't played the game yet. The point is that Subject Zero doesn't even fit what I consider to be strong in a person. And, while I'm at it, neither does Hollywood's heavy-handed stereotype of a "strong woman."

[Remmak]

lokiarchetype wrote...

I wouldn't rule out the numerous tattoos as a method to obscure the medical tattoos in order to help cover that memory up, essentially an attempt to "write-over" what you can't erase.

I'm not ruling anything out. In fact, what you say may be very plausible. I'm just noting how troubled people try to outwardly manifest what doesn't exist inside. Same thing with people who try to 'change' themselves but don't realize that has to start from the inside out. It's not like changing your make up.

[Firndeloth]

Nimander wrote...

I don't like SuZe so far because she seems to be a 90s Anti-Hero cliche.

That is a substantially more succinct than my answer. I'd agree.

[Firndeloth]

Remmak wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

I wouldn't rule out the numerous tattoos as a method to obscure the medical tattoos in order to help cover that memory up, essentially an attempt to "write-over" what you can't erase.

I'm not ruling anything out. In fact, what you say may be very plausible. I'm just noting how troubled people try to outwardly manifest what doesn't exist inside. Same thing with people who try to 'change' themselves but don't realize that has to start from the inside out. It's not like changing your make up.

Just like people with plastic surgery obsessions and addictions. Their problems are usually rooted in insecurity that they don't know how to handle from within, so they try fixing the shell.

Modifié par Firndeloth, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:11 .

[lokiarchetype]

Remmak wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

I wouldn't rule out the numerous tattoos as a method to obscure the medical tattoos in order to help cover that memory up, essentially an attempt to "write-over" what you can't erase.

I'm not ruling anything out. In fact, what you say may be very plausible. I'm just noting how troubled people try to outwardly manifest what doesn't exist inside. Same thing with people who try to 'change' themselves but don't realize that has to start from the inside out. It's not like changing your make up.

Just suggesting you could go even deeper than just 'attention seeking behaviors'.  Her overt sexuality could also be seen as attention seeking...
...or that her view of human relationships and interactions is impaired and she views sex as the only way to get affection from another
...or that after having it taken from her for so long, she views it as empowering to use it to try to control and manipulate others, to use it for her own pleasure.

[TuringPoint]

I don't mind a good beating once in a while.

[Schneidend]

Alocormin wrote...

I don't mind a good beating once in a while.

ROFL

Awesome.

[Hahaue]

lokiarchetype wrote...
And likewise there are female gamers who don't play MaleShep cause they think he sounds "too much like a douche"

It goes both ways.

I don't think he sounds like a douche, I just think Mark Meer did a very poor job in ME1. He seems to have improved in ME2, though. He sounded like he was reading his lines rather than speaking them, there's a distinct difference.

[TuringPoint]

His acting tended to be bland in ME1, and I suspect it's because he was doing a high volume of lines, which he wasn't used to. There were some decent lines, but there were some lines that totally destroyed the mood.

He's played the game now, also - and that might have taught him a few things Listening to yourself helps a lot.

*scratches head blankly*  What thread were we in?  Oh.

SuZe put me off at first, not because she's strong but because the shallow side of her personality is all I could see.  I hadn't made a decision that I wouldn't like her, though.

I love strong female characters.  They are really awesome.  That said, I don't find the weirdly sexless, overly violent, not really attractive, stereotypical lesbian character interesting.  More like Ripley strong.

FemShep is a pretty good balance.

Modifié par Alocormin, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:27 .

[Remmak]

lokiarchetype wrote...

Just suggesting you could go even deeper than just 'attention seeking behaviors'.  Her overt sexuality could also be seen as attention seeking...
...or that her view of human relationships and interactions is impaired and she views sex as the only way to get affection from another
...or that after having it taken from her for so long, she views it as empowering to use it to try to control and manipulate others, to use it for her own pleasure.

Quite possibly, maybe, and not likely. Last one doesn't really fit the psychology in my opinion. And when I say 'attention seeking' I don't necessarily mean approval. I mean any reaction at all.

[Burningwolf]

SuZe doesn't come off as strong to me.Disturbed?yes.Shattered?yes.Unstable?Yes

Appealing? No.Body art is a negative point in my book.especially if its flaunted or highly visable.



Is there an option just to leave her in her happy little cell? or shoot her like the rabid dog she comes off as so far?

[Arrtis]

Subject zero is a very lame character.Thats my opinion.SHe was hurt she built up a ton of emotional walls and so on...then you will see her vulnerable during her personal quest...I do not see this as very appealing in any way....

[Schneidend]

Arrtis wrote...

Subject zero is a very lame character.Thats my opinion.SHe was hurt she built up a ton of emotional walls and so on...then you will see her vulnerable during her personal quest...I do not see this as very appealing in any way....

Well build up some emotional walls of your own for this bombshell, there, sunshine:

Nobody cares what you think. Nobody has ever cared what you think, and nobody ever will care what you think. So, why don't you take your prejudice and your inane, uninformed little comments, click your little rhinestone-encrusted red heels together, and teleport on home so you can tell all your uncles and your aunt about the crazy dream world you visited, Dorothy. M'kay?

/channelingdoctorcox

[Inferno Sock]

Anyone who dresses like SuZe, boy or girl would scare me

[Arrtis]

Schneidend wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Subject zero is a very lame character.Thats my opinion.SHe was hurt she built up a ton of emotional walls and so on...then you will see her vulnerable during her personal quest...I do not see this as very appealing in any way....

Well build up some emotional walls of your own for this bombshell, there, sunshine:

Nobody cares what you think. Nobody has ever cared what you think, and nobody ever will care what you think. So, why don't you take your prejudice and your inane, uninformed little comments, click your little rhinestone-encrusted red heels together, and teleport on home so you can tell all your uncles and your aunt about the crazy dream world you visited, Dorothy. M'kay?

/channelingdoctorcox

hmm il think about it;)

[Firndeloth]

Schneidend wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Subject zero is a very lame character.Thats my opinion.SHe was hurt she built up a ton of emotional walls and so on...then you will see her vulnerable during her personal quest...I do not see this as very appealing in any way....

Well build up some emotional walls of your own for this bombshell, there, sunshine:

Nobody cares what you think. Nobody has ever cared what you think, and nobody ever will care what you think. So, why don't you take your prejudice and your inane, uninformed little comments, click your little rhinestone-encrusted red heels together, and teleport on home so you can tell all your uncles and your aunt about the crazy dream world you visited, Dorothy. M'kay?

/channelingdoctorcox

Er ... inane comments and prejudice. I hope you see the irony dripping off of your post. The reason Dr. Cox is funny is because he handles the presentation well. His words aren't the funny part. Which leaves you sounding rather jaded.

[Schneidend]

Firndeloth wrote...

Er ... inane comments and prejudice. I hope you see the irony dripping off of your post. The reason Dr. Cox is funny is because he handles the presentation well. His words aren't the funny part. Which leaves you sounding rather jaded.

If it helps my credibility I was rotating my neck, pecking the air with my chin, and occassionally elongating and whistling words as I typed them. I also then drunk myself into a stupor and had angry sex with a woman I kinda-sorta hate but also kinda-sorta love.

I'm not entirely unconvinced I wasn't actually possessed. ...Cassandra.

[Jax Montag]

Jumping in a little late but I find SuZe intriguing sorta hot you know minus the part where she might snap and kill me... And the tatoos may be a bit much but hey they all got a purpose and from the sounds of it many of them weren't her choice...

[AngryFrozenWater]

Well.. Strong or not, let's just say she isn't my type. I don't like the way she looks and the way she acts. Of course I will try all characters in the game, but I think I'll pass her in my first playthrough.

[Arrtis]

Suze is on the bottom of the list.

First playthrough im gonna try someone else shes too obvious.

[Shady314]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!



Oh sorry about that. I thought for a moment that I saw a strong woman but it turned out to just be SuZe.