OniTYME wrote...
ME3 renegade is NOT heroic in any way. He's a monster, a bastard who betrays friends and kills without finding better ways.
Riiiiight.
What is it like being a renegade in ME2 and 3
Débuté par
Statichands
, janv. 04 2014 02:34
#26
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 01:02
dreamgazer
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Riiiiight.
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#27
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 01:05
SwobyJ
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Necanor wrote...
Well, I always play a nearly complete Paragon and still do things that many people would find monstrous(like purposely exterminating the Geth and the Rachni). While there are Renegade players that save everyone.
That's the good part about Bioware RPGs. The writers may write 2-3ish main 'character setups', but they also take some effort to allow actions to define us (the players) more than their established scripts.
You can still be a Paragon player and take out the Geth. It just means you're possibly more Paragon about protecting the known galactic society, than robots who aren't part of it. A lot of the morality system even boils down to attitudes rather than specific actions.
#28
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 03:39
cap and gown
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SwobyJ wrote...
A lot of the morality system even boils down to attitudes rather than specific actions.
This is what I find to be a problem with the whole renegade/paragon thing. Half the time being a renegade is just about Shepard coming off as a jerk, and not about any particular action he/she takes. I think instead of a "morality" system, they should just have choices and not try to rate whether they are good or bad. Let the player decide how moral or immoral they are.
#29
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 04:59
SwobyJ
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cap and gown wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
A lot of the morality system even boils down to attitudes rather than specific actions.
This is what I find to be a problem with the whole renegade/paragon thing. Half the time being a renegade is just about Shepard coming off as a jerk, and not about any particular action he/she takes. I think instead of a "morality" system, they should just have choices and not try to rate whether they are good or bad. Let the player decide how moral or immoral they are.
We mostly just have Shepard as a reference though. Maybe for Shepard specifically, Renegade often = jerk. Maybe for Liara, Renegade would = being meany Shadow Broker Benezia-ish.
I have some off-the-wall beliefs about Paragon and Renegade that make me want Bioware to keep them. I get what you're saying, but I just think they have a very interesting role in Mass Effect that Bioware has only just STARTED to get into investigating. (ME1 sets it up, ME2 exaggerates it, ME3 takes them to the disturbing extremes).
#30
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:44
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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One thing I noticed.. and it could just be coincidence, but it often seems like when Renegade and Paragon options (the blue and red colored options specifically) are on the left side of the wheel, it almost always seems like a variation of Lawful/Orderly (in D&D terms). Am I seeing things?
For example, if there's a Renegade option on the left side, it often just seems like Shep is a hardass military type, but still very much a Lawful person. Just that their methods are harsh. Something more along the lines of Miranda's or Javik's attitude. Otherwise, Renegade is a bit more free spirited (I wouldn't say outright chaotic, but probably more compatible with the likes of Grunt and Jack).
In any case, the latter is the kind of Renegade I find funny/fun to play. The Orderly option is extreme stick-up-the-ass Renegade. The kind that would happily pick Renegade Control for an ending or behave like a despot. That's not "Renegade" at all in my eyes (in the Han Solo/Wild West sense). There are more examples of this kind of prickish Renegade in ME3 it seems. Like totally lacking any humor. They forgot to make it as funny as the last game.
I could totally off about the "right" and "left" side thing, but there is a difference in alignment here that isn't quite illustrated well with just saying "Paragon" and "Renegade". I still think after all of these years, D&D's system is superior to most settings for explicit Chaotic/Lawful alignments to go hand in hand with Good/Evil.
For example, if there's a Renegade option on the left side, it often just seems like Shep is a hardass military type, but still very much a Lawful person. Just that their methods are harsh. Something more along the lines of Miranda's or Javik's attitude. Otherwise, Renegade is a bit more free spirited (I wouldn't say outright chaotic, but probably more compatible with the likes of Grunt and Jack).
In any case, the latter is the kind of Renegade I find funny/fun to play. The Orderly option is extreme stick-up-the-ass Renegade. The kind that would happily pick Renegade Control for an ending or behave like a despot. That's not "Renegade" at all in my eyes (in the Han Solo/Wild West sense). There are more examples of this kind of prickish Renegade in ME3 it seems. Like totally lacking any humor. They forgot to make it as funny as the last game.
I could totally off about the "right" and "left" side thing, but there is a difference in alignment here that isn't quite illustrated well with just saying "Paragon" and "Renegade". I still think after all of these years, D&D's system is superior to most settings for explicit Chaotic/Lawful alignments to go hand in hand with Good/Evil.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 janvier 2014 - 09:49 .
#31
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:11
DoomsdayDevice
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You know... one thing I've noticed about the paragon/renegade dynamic is that, as far as dialogue goes, most of the time paragon boils down to trusting and renegade boils down to distrusting. So, basically, my Shepard paragons whom she trusts and renegades whom she distrusts.
#32
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 03:00
SwobyJ
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
You know... one thing I've noticed about the paragon/renegade dynamic is that, as far as dialogue goes, most of the time paragon boils down to trusting and renegade boils down to distrusting. So, basically, my Shepard paragons whom she trusts and renegades whom she distrusts.
"Paragade/Renegon, it's like context matters!"tm
#33
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 10:46
Oni Changas
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Wrex/Mordin/Legion (to a lesser extent)/Ash/Kaidandreamgazer wrote...
OniTYME wrote...
ME3 renegade is NOT heroic in any way. He's a monster, a bastard who betrays friends and kills without finding better ways.
Riiiiight.
*facepalm*
#34
Posté 08 janvier 2014 - 12:48
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One could also say Paragon Shep is an irresponsible fool. A lot of what he does is taking unrealistic chances where the consequences could involve many being killed.
Wrex and Eve are 2 Krogan, and their views are considered radical because many if not most other Krogan favour trampling everybody else to bloody mush. Curing the Genophage is a long-term risk, something Mordin knew but was willing to overlook because he was ridden with guilt. And picking the Geth over the Quarians is no less a betrayal just because the option to do so appears on the top right of the dialogue wheel.
Most Renegade options have a reason behind them, and they amount to more than making Shep feel warm because he did 'the right thing'.
Wrex and Eve are 2 Krogan, and their views are considered radical because many if not most other Krogan favour trampling everybody else to bloody mush. Curing the Genophage is a long-term risk, something Mordin knew but was willing to overlook because he was ridden with guilt. And picking the Geth over the Quarians is no less a betrayal just because the option to do so appears on the top right of the dialogue wheel.
Most Renegade options have a reason behind them, and they amount to more than making Shep feel warm because he did 'the right thing'.
#35
Posté 08 janvier 2014 - 12:50
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Actually, that's oversimplifying. Many Paragon decisions also make sense.
#36
Posté 08 janvier 2014 - 01:44
Yggdrasil
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You should check out some of the videos people post on YouTube. Search "mass effect renegade," and I'm sure you'll get a bunch of returns. I don't really enjoy replaying video games, so I go to YouTube to see the different paths that are available.
#37
Posté 08 janvier 2014 - 07:54
Statichands
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Modifié par Zarble, 08 janvier 2014 - 07:55 .
