288 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

andy probably believes that being pro-templar makes someone automatically anti-mage. 

I think Andy might be addressing whether one agrees or disagrees with the templars governing mages and the Chantry controlled Circles when he's addressing the mage issue.

I know. But I don't believe that if someone supports the templars or the Chantry-Circle system  it means that he's automatically anti-mage. The same goes for the opposite. If someone is pro-mage, it doesn't mean he's anti-templar or anti-Chantry. It could be, but it's not necessary. 

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think Andy might be addressing whether one agrees or disagrees with the templars governing mages and the Chantry controlled Circles when he's addressing the mage issue. 

I know. But I don't believe that if someone supports the templars or the Chantry-Circle system  it means that he's automatically anti-mage. The same goes for the opposite. If someone is pro-mage, it doesn't mean he's anti-templar or anti-Chantry. It could be, but it's not necessary. 

I agree with you. I wonder if Inquisition is going to explore these issues. We seem to have a pro-Circle companion so far, and we might encounter Cullen as a possible companion, if the survey is any indication.

[The Elder King]

@LobselVith8: I hope so. The fact that we have one companion that is both pro-mage and pro-Circle is a good sign. I want to see companions with different stances even if they support the same side.

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

@LobselVith8: I hope so. The fact that we have one companion that is both pro-mage and pro-Circle is a good sign. I want to see companions with different stances even if they support the same side.

That would be interesting, since the veil tears threaten everyone. I am curious to see how Cullen (if he's a companion) reacts to a possible mage protagonist being free of the Circle and leading an organization, and whether he's part of Lambert's faction or Justina's sect.

Part of the reason why I like the idea of a Dalish Inquisitor is being outside the spectrum of the Mage-Templar War; the People have reason to distrust both factions, given their history, so there's no default faction to side with.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Alistair refers to her as blood mage and she is using blood magic (ritual and yes she tells you that) besides i don't see that she would have any moral qualms and she wants power and blood magic can give it her.

Alistair calls her a maleficar; her non-Circle sanctioned shapeshifting abilities address why she's considered one by Alistair and Wynne. As for the dark ritual, I don't see how that makes her a blood mage in the same sense as Jowan or Merrill, who use blood magic in various ways. I mean, if the dark ritual alone is sufficient enough for you, do you also consider Finn a blood mage as well for using a method that (like the dark ritual) can be viewed as blood magic?

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Demon always is fishing for mage so she would end possessed anyway and well she takes hawke for a reason to kill her... She is stupid and in end was entire time manipulated by demon if demon would control her simple he would made her to go and be possessed immediately... And yes plot armor , her mentor and hawke saved this dumb brick from being abomnation...

Audacity was trapped for centuries inside a totem, and wasn't in a position to possess anyone until Marethari intentionally released it.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

So what she was only mage that fell to that for others such experience is unique when for mage it is every day of their life they can be possessed at every moment do you want me belive that person who was easy victim for pride demon not once but two times can resist every day of her life when most mages are toys for demons?

She's the only non-possessed mage who can go with your Hawke. Plot railroading every companion (but Anders) into betrayal in a matter of seconds doesn't really help your case.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And here we can see her ultimate stupidity when she can't trick even dumb guard she can even see trick such dumb brick should be possessed as first.

While we see Merrill's intellect demonstrated time and time again, from discerning whether Kerran was possessed by a demon to identifying the type of creature the Profane Abomination was.

1.Ritual is blood magic and she says so however she didn't care about chantry restrictions as far renember finn used blood not blood magic... and jowan uses blood magic only twice well even once and it is enough to everyone label him as blood mage as i said morrigan is power hungry and have no moral qualms and blood magic is power. 

2.It seems change would quickly change with merril she was his puppet and fooled by him (well she is so stupid that i doubt that was hard)

3.Anders was possessed because plot required this and merril wasn't possessed for that same reason she is so stupid that couldn't even trick dumb mercenary hell she even burnt hawke when he was doing that.Pretty much every companion was rather weak mentally and didn't even experience with demons and any traning so this that can be not big deal for merril that should be every day... So as i said if mage fails twice to resist demon it is
hopeless case when normal person shouldn't care...

4.Hahaha yes because demon taught her blood magic (that same who screwd her) that shows how she is clever yeah jowan know blood magic as well she is fool and fell to demon twice , lost in kirkwall more than once , proved this in movie that i linked and many conversations between her and companions...   

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 05 janvier 2014 - 06:16 .

[rasloveszev]

Rassler wrote...

Guys please, you either skip conversations or don't pay attention. Every mage that Hawke can click on and start a conversation with talks about the abuses. I started a new game and just went through this. Anders quoting Karl's letter which was the main cause Anders went to Kirkwall to save him









This was the diplomatic response to all this:

THIS!

[andy6915]

Well where DO I stand on this? I am anti-Templar, yet I know there needs to be some way for mages to train their powers because a single untrained young mage can create an Apocalypse (Connor). I also know we need to make sure that things don't become another Tevinter, but I also know oppression and the Circles isn't the way to do it. But at the same time, how much do mages need watched? They weren't watched with ancient elves or in Dalish clans or in Rivain, and those societies aren't become filled with power hungry Magister-like mages... And notice those are all things that the Chant of Light hasn't really gotten involved into? The classic line about "magic is to serve man" is the very line Tevinter uses as their excuse to let mages rule. Truly, I don't think Tevinter would be a Magister hell hole if the Chantry didn't exist. So I think both sides need controlled and both sides have extremes that need dealt with.

If given the option, I will turn my Inquisition organization into the new Templar organization. And I will make laws that enforce checks and balances that will make damn sure that neither side gets too powerful, they need to stay even or we get another mage Templar war again someday. And this doesn't mean Circles, my new Templars won't be locking mages in a Tower or in Gallows. There will be mage villages where orphan mages or those abandoned by their parents and those still in training can stay, and mages who have parents will be allowed to stay with their parents for a couple months a year as a sort of summer vacation. Mages who have graduated can then leave the village to live with their parents or pursue careers or continue to live in the village and mentor other mages or whatever they want. Templars will be more like a controlled police force rather than an army. Fanatics will actually be disqualified from being Templars, and the more secular a Templar is the more likely they are to be considered for enlistment. There will also be a force of mage-Templars, mages who join the Templar organization to support the Templars. Mages are better at handling other mages than Templars are, mages who wish to help will be most welcome editions. Each village will have a small group of authorized blood mages to help combat other blood mages, and because blood mages can detect demons inside other mages, and because known blood mages will be an asset as they will know the signs of other blood mages and will be far better at picking up the subtle signs than the Templars could ever be. These blood mages will go through rigorous testing and checks to make sure they are of strong moral fiber and ethics who won't abuse their power, and they will be the only ones allowed to be blood mages. Fact is blood magic is going to happen in Circles/my villages, so it's best to make it legal but very limited and restricted and regulated, and these blood mages will help to make sure no unauthorized ones are in the village.

So where do I fall? Too anti Templar and too pro mage?

Modifié par andy69156915, 05 janvier 2014 - 06:24 .

[rasloveszev]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seeing as some Templars rape and molest mages... I wonder how many of those raped mages are children? I mean one who is already willing to use someone else's body for their own pleasure is just a tiny single extra step from deciding they want to go go for someone a bit younger than usual.

Just a food for thought.

Even evil has its standards. 

[The Elder King]

@Lobsel: About Cullen, if he's a companion or a possible ally I think he'd accept (maybe reluctantly) the fact that the inquisiton is lead by a mage.
About the dalish, I agree, though dwarves and Tal-Vashots would probably be in the same position.

[andy6915]

Reading my post again, I now realize a good way to describe what I think is the best way to handle things. It's like the Ferelden mage collective combined with the Templar organization, mixed with much more freedom and actual living than the current system.

[TheKomandorShepard]

andy69156915 wrote...

Reading my post again, I now realize a good way to describe what I think is the best way to handle things. It's like the Ferelden mage collective combined with the Templar organization, mixed with much more freedom and actual living than the current system.

Yes because making more lax system if much more restrictive system didn't worked providing safety is very good idea...

[lady_v23]

rasloveszev wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seeing as some Templars rape and molest mages... I wonder how many of those raped mages are children? I mean one who is already willing to use someone else's body for their own pleasure is just a tiny single extra step from deciding they want to go go for someone a bit younger than usual.

Just a food for thought.

Even evil has its standards. 

lol that's a negative.

[andy6915]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Reading my post again, I now realize a good way to describe what I think is the best way to handle things. It's like the Ferelden mage collective combined with the Templar organization, mixed with much more freedom and actual living than the current system.

Yes because making more lax system if much more restrictive system didn't worked providing safety is very good idea...

That's the point, it being too restrictive is what got us into this mess in the first place. Tightening restrictions to keep mages controlled is like pouring kerosine onto a fire to put it out.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
1.Ritual is blood magic and she says so however she didn't care about chantry restrictions as far renember finn used blood not blood magic... and jowan uses blood magic only twice well even once and it is enough to everyone label him as blood mage as i said morrigan is power hungry and have no moral qualms and blood magic is power.

Don't forget that tevinter slaver.
She's all "kill all thoise elven slaves in a blood magic ritual for power? Yes, let's do it!"
That is why I don't trust Morrigan at all.
Zero moral fiber.

[rasloveszev]

lady_v23 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seeing as some Templars rape and molest mages... I wonder how many of those raped mages are children? I mean one who is already willing to use someone else's body for their own pleasure is just a tiny single extra step from deciding they want to go go for someone a bit younger than usual.

Just a food for thought.

Even evil has its standards. 

lol that's a negative.

What you don't believe me? Well, in (American) prisons, pedophiles are given their own special cells. Why? Because the other prisoners would try to murder him/her (usually him). They have little tolerance for hurting children.

Modifié par rasloveszev, 05 janvier 2014 - 06:45 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

andy69156915 wrote...
So where do I fall? Too anti Templar and too pro mage?

I would say "too impractical".

I just don't see your plan working.
It's easy to say "X will go trough a rigorous test for strong moral fiber and character"... but can you tell me what that test will be?
And how will people react to your rejection of religious poeple (almsot all of them) from the "new templar" force?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 05 janvier 2014 - 06:47 .

[andy6915]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
So where do I fall? Too anti Templar and too pro mage?

I would say "too impractical".

I just don't see your plan working.

Well the first paragraph was larely where I stand on the actual war, the second paragraph is just how I think it should be fixed. The first paragraph is what you should judge my preferences on, the second is just kinda there to be my rambling opinion.

[Veruin]

andy69156915 wrote...

That's the point, it being too restrictive is what got us into this mess in the first place. Tightening restrictions to keep mages controlled is like pouring kerosine onto a fire to put it out.

If the restrictions were tighter, you would've slapped the idiot for bringing kerosene and would know what was inside the container.  If it wasn't restrictive, how did the kerosene get through?  Obviously some idiot let it slide through.

[Invisible Man]

a few pages back someone said something about audacity still being trapped in the totem when merrill was still fixing the big mirror (act II-ish). I think the keeper already released it at that point. at the end of the sundermount trail (also act II), the one that leads to the demons prison, there is a cart blocking the entrance, however there is no bluish light which you'd still should to see some extent. there are also 2 arcane horrors, & a reverent leading up to the cave. + dragonlings and a mature dragon, though I'm not going to say the dragons came cause the keeper was stupid enough to let audacity out. at the same time the varterral went nuts, as did a few of the dalish elves in regards to Merrill (namely pal).

Modifié par Invisible Man, 05 janvier 2014 - 06:50 .

[BlueMagitek]

andy69156915 wrote...

That's the point, it being too restrictive is what got us into this mess in the first place. Tightening restrictions to keep mages controlled is like pouring kerosine onto a fire to put it out.

That's not quite correct; the issue was that they weren't restrictive enough in the right ways.  Look at the freedoms afforded to mages by the Templars vs. by the Qunari.  The Qunari don't have these problems.

Of course, the issue with going more restrictive is that the Templar still hold mages as people (see: Gregoir, Bryant), so the Qunari solution is not as easy to implement.

[lady_v23]

rasloveszev wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seeing as some Templars rape and molest mages... I wonder how many of those raped mages are children? I mean one who is already willing to use someone else's body for their own pleasure is just a tiny single extra step from deciding they want to go go for someone a bit younger than usual.

Just a food for thought.

Even evil has its standards. 

lol that's a negative.

What you don't believe me? Well, in (American) prisons, pedophiles are given their own special cells. Why? Because the other prisoners would try to murder him/her (usually him). They have little tolerance for hurting children.

wel, yea. but this is thedas.  We're talking about people that hunt, imprison, murder, torture, and rape people just because they are what they are.  Sounds familiar?  So hurting children really is that far fetched?

[andy6915]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
So where do I fall? Too anti Templar and too pro mage?

I would say "too impractical".

I just don't see your plan working.
It's easy to say "X will go trough a rigorous test for strong moral fiber and character"... but can you tell me what that test will be?
And how will people react to your rejection of religious poeple (almsot all of them) from the "new templar" force

I don't care how they react. They want to eject my new Templars, then they will just have to realize that if a mage-caused disaster happens, we will have to take a while to handle it thanks to them not letting us near enough to be fast responders. First time that happens, I think people will adjust and just accept how we do things from then on. Religious fervor is partly why Templars are so corrupt, they feel they're God's little soldiers and they everything they do is by divine right. I don't need a bunch of highly religious people that feel they are owed power because they're on the Maker's side. Besides, the public won't know what our system is, normal people won't even realize we reject people for those reasons.

The test will be complicated, and will take weeks of verification. Let's just say it will be the only time my Templars take things kinda back to the Circle ways. They will be isolated and cut off for weeks during the evaluations, watched very strictly and closely. They will be given constant tests of character and will, and half the time they won't even realize it's part of the test. Send in undercover mages and ask them to teach them blood magic under the table. have mages and Templars request the testee to help them in selfless ways that the testee will have no expected reward but merely helps to be helpful and because it's the right thing to do. Very long and detailed interviews with someone good at recognizing lies. the final test will be making Templars do a fake scenario where they accuse the testee of doing blood magic during the test and attempt to (outwardly) execute the mage and see if they use blood magic as a last ditch effort to save themselves and if they don't then they pass, kinda like a "hold a man over a volcano and then you will truly learn what kind of person they are" thing. If being falsely accussed and about to be killed doesn't push them into using it for survival, they are likely not to ever abuse it.

I'm sure I could think of more for the test. Bottom line, it won't be easy to fake your way through. The final test is just about 100% sure to weed out the ones not qualified.

Modifié par andy69156915, 05 janvier 2014 - 07:04 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

andy69156915 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Reading my post again, I now realize a good way to describe what I think is the best way to handle things. It's like the Ferelden mage collective combined with the Templar organization, mixed with much more freedom and actual living than the current system.

Yes because making more lax system if much more restrictive system didn't worked providing safety is very good idea...

That's the point, it being too restrictive is what got us into this mess in the first place. Tightening restrictions to keep mages controlled is like pouring kerosine onto a fire to put it out.

Not rly circles were restrictive but still mages started rampage despite that , it is not true that qunari don't have incidents with mages as redemption shows one of them evolved into attitude "then let me be evil" but simple answer mages can't be controled and it is proven more than many times.Well if they can't be controled i don't see reason why even try just opening door for abuse simple best solution that solve that problem (and only one that can solve that problem) is kill mages... 

So societes and world will be safe and mages won't suffer overthrow chantry and we can start research how destroy mages forever and improve technology.   

[duckley]

hhh89 wrote...

@Lobsel: About Cullen, if he's a companion or a possible ally I think he'd accept (maybe reluctantly) the fact that the inquisiton is lead by a mage.
About the dalish, I agree, though dwarves and Tal-Vashots would probably be in the same position.

If Hawke was a mage - clearly Cullen respected Hawke so it is not an issue in my opinion

[rasloveszev]

lady_v23 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seeing as some Templars rape and molest mages... I wonder how many of those raped mages are children? I mean one who is already willing to use someone else's body for their own pleasure is just a tiny single extra step from deciding they want to go go for someone a bit younger than usual.

Just a food for thought.

Even evil has its standards. 

lol that's a negative.

What you don't believe me? Well, in (American) prisons, pedophiles are given their own special cells. Why? Because the other prisoners would try to murder him/her (usually him). They have little tolerance for hurting children.

wel, yea. but this is thedas.  We're talking about people that hunt, imprison, murder, torture, and rape people just because they are what they are. 

People hunt, imprison, murder, torture, and rape on Earth to. I really don't see your point. In fact Dragon Age is heavily based off of relatity. Like I said, I  really don't see the point your trying to make. The psychology doesn't seem different. People are still appalled when you hurt children and innocent people.