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[rasloveszev]

Vilegrim wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...
The papers she wrote make it seemed like she loved it there. 

~ahem~

Dear Hawke,
I hope this letter finds you well. My time in the Circle has been bearable, even after the templars made a point of putting me through the Harrowing as soon as I arrived. They thought I was at risk of possession or running away like Father. Glad it's over with.

I've started mentoring apprentices. I enjoy time with the children, teaching them basic spells. One of them, Ella, has taken a shine to me. Adorable!

Life's not perfect here, mind you. The templars are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views. There's one creep named Ser Alrik who likes harassing mages, but I'll steer clear of him!

I'm doing fine! Please don't worry about me.
With love,

Bethany

What.

also: The Templars would be reading her letters, so we cannot be sure either way.

Then why would they allow her to write about Ser Alrik and how extreme the templars are? Wouldn't they want people to believe Templars are perfect little angels?

Modifié par rasloveszev, 04 janvier 2014 - 09:20 .

[Fredward]

Vilegrim wrote...
also: The Templars would be reading her letters, so we cannot be sure either way.

That's a good point. If the templars read the letters (which they in all likelihood do, especially after Karl) and they only let the ones that through that are as anodyne as this one of course it's gonna sound like everything is peachy/bearable. Plus why is it even necessary for her to write letters? Access must be restricted quite heavily if Hawke can't visit his/her sister who is in the exact same city. Like not even in the Gallows? It's not a situation that gives off copasetic vibes.

rasloveszev wrote...
Then why would they allow her to write
about Ser Alrik and how extreme the templars are? I would think if they
would want people to believe little angels.

Templars who harass mages in Circles would not be news to anyone... anywhere, ever.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 04 janvier 2014 - 09:21 .

[DarthSliver]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Because it would have encouraged some people to side against the templars if Bethany was abused. There's not an actual reason to explain it story-wise; the entire reason Alain sided with Thrask was to topple the oppressive system that was permitting this kind of abuse unchecked, since he was a rape victim.

Well I did side with the Mages after Meredith called for the Rite of Annulment and Bethany was at risk of being killed by the Templars.

I side with the Mages with Bethany being in the Circle and Side with the Templars as a Mage Hawke for the LOLs. Siding with Meredith really brings out the crazy in her. 

[Veruin]

rasloveszev wrote...

Then why would they allow her to write about Ser Alrik and how extreme the templars are? I would think if they would want people to believe little angels.

Then either they don't check the letters or they aren't as corrupt/bad as you think they are.

[In Exile]

hhh89 wrote...
It's heavily implied......where, exactly?

Other than the wishy- the tone of her letter, through the consistency of abuse we see mages subjected to and the very scant commnents you have from Cullen on Bethany. 

[ames4u]

rasloveszev wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

A better question is why are you posting so many speculative threads?

And people don't?

I believe he is referring to the fact that this has been posted in the Inquisition
forum and not DA2. Bethany's incarceration is not relevant to Inquisition but it is
in DA2.

But chances are she censors her letters so as not to get punished by the Templars
monitoring her letters-or the Templars avoid getting particularly abusive of the Champions
sister. Either is likely. Then again she is quiet and well behaved so she probably
doesn't get as much trouble due to this.

Modifié par ames4u, 04 janvier 2014 - 09:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

rasloveszev wrote...

I'm very shocked about how things worked out in Act 2. Bethany seemed to love the Circle!....despite the fact that the Kirkwall Circle is known for their sadistic ruther Templars and a certain one that's raping the mages. How does Bethany seem to avoid all of that going on?

My only guess is that she was guarded by the non-corupted Templars (and Cullen maybe).

The answer is simple - the abuse isn't as spread as many pro-mages want to belive.


To quote Bethany:
"The templars are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views."

[DarthSliver]

Its hard to say if she was or wasnt, but if she was she did a good job hiding the abuse towards her.

[rapscallioness]

I don't think she loves it. She has accepted it, tho. And found sum reason to have joy in working w/the children.

I killed Ser Arlrick, or whatever, pretty damn quickly precisely because of that letter. Anders just confirmed my worst fears abt that guy.

Meredith does try and threaten Hawke w/Bethany. I simply took the aggro voice and let her know those kinda threats were not wise. She backs down real quick, and acts like she wasn't try to say what she was trying to say.

Idk if Bethany was abused during..what was it?..abt 6 years?..in the Circle. Hawke was not Champion yet, but she was of sum import by then. Not just sum commoner at that point. That was the first 3 years. Then Hawke becomes Champion the last three years.

Although, idk how much protection that would have really afforded Bethany. Cuz you know, there's always those that would be like haha, I can't get Hawke, but I can hurt Hawke by getting her defenseless sister.

Lil cowardly shytes.

Bethany is really changed, tho. But she's changed pretty much the same as when she joins the Wardens. I figured the joining and realizing the shorter lifespan and infertility did it.

With the Circle, she is changed, too. I don't think it's ever really implied in game, tho. Not even a line abt, "sometimes one comes to my room...." like w/Alain's dialogue.

[Hellion Rex]

DarthSliver wrote...

Its hard to say if she was or wasnt, but if she was she did a good job hiding the abuse towards her.

And she might very well have been hiding what was being done to her. I would say it was within her character to lie, so that her family wouldn't worry and her brother/sister come a knocking on the Gallows gates to bust her out.

[Lotion Soronarr]

hhh89 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Bethany was lying to Hawke. It's pretty obviously in character for her, to play the martyr so that her family has a home in Kirkwall. She has a lot of self-loathing for what she sees as her family's inability to law down roots because of her being a mage. It's pretty heavily implied she didn't miss out on the abuse, she just sees it at worth it to no longer burden her family. 

It's heavily implied......where, exactly?

Mind you, when In Exile sez "heavily implied" it means "not implied at all, especially not heavily, but it's my personal theory that I must give full validity for"

[The Elder King]

In Exile wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
It's heavily implied......where, exactly?

Other than the wishy- the tone of her letter, through the consistency of abuse we see mages subjected to and the very scant commnents you have from Cullen on Bethany. 

Not every mages was abused in Kirkwall. For Cullen's comments, I have to find them (or you can told me), since I don't recall them. I've made the Circle-Bethany choice only once, since I roleplay my warrior/rogue Hawke in a way that they would never let Bethany remain alone in Kirkwall during Act 1.

[Vandicus]

Because the majority of mages aren't abused. Unless we are to believe that the average Thedosian is significantly more malicious and sociopathic than Earth humans, it comes as no surprise to anyone who doesn't believe that all public school teachers are sexual predators that the mages who experience such unfortunate things are in the minority.

[Fredward]

Vandicus wrote...
Because the majority of mages aren't abused. Unless we are to believe that the average Thedosian is significantly more malicious and sociopathic than Earth humans, it comes as no surprise to anyone who doesn't believe that all public school teachers are sexual predators that the mages who experience such unfortunate things are in the minority.

'Cept unjustified indefinite confinment.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
It's heavily implied......where, exactly?

Other than the wishy- the tone of her letter, through the consistency of abuse we see mages subjected to and the very scant commnents you have from Cullen on Bethany. 

Not every mages was abused in Kirkwall. For Cullen's comments, I have to find them (or you can told me), since I don't recall them. I've made the Circle-Bethany choice only once, since I roleplay my warrior/rogue Hawke in a way that they would never let Bethany remain alone in Kirkwall during Act 1.

Yup. Kirkwall was probably the worst of the Circles, but even then, not all mages were abused within the Gallows walls. And I never let my brother/sister anywhere near the Gallows. Always put them into the Grey Wardens.

[In Exile]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The answer is simple - the abuse isn't as spread as many pro-mages want to belive.

To quote Bethany:
"The templaers are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views."

You mean like how she says Ser Alrik "harrases" mages, instead of saying that he forces Harrowed mages to become Tranquil and then uses them as his sex slaves, including Ella who's mentioned in the letter, who he hunts down and taunts will all the raping he'll done after he wipes away her mind?

Yes, the literal content of that letter is definetly reliable. 

[In Exile]

hhh89 wrote...
Not every mages was abused in Kirkwall.

We have no evidence of that. The only mages who talk to us - like Alain - talk about sexual abuse. We have Harrowed mages being forcibly made tranquil for exchanging so-called dangerous ideas in letters. 

For Cullen's comments, I have to find them (or you can told me), since I don't recall them.  

I'll search for them. All I can recall now is his general attitude - I only recently replayed Act III with a mage Hawke and Cullen talks about how the Chantry has "dominion" over mages by divine right. There are also his comments about the Tranquil solution being a good idea. 

[rasloveszev]

Vandicus wrote...

Because the majority of mages aren't abused. Unless we are to believe that the average Thedosian is significantly more malicious and sociopathic than Earth humans, it comes as no surprise to anyone who doesn't believe that all public school teachers are sexual predators that the mages who experience such unfortunate things are in the minority.

I'm not talking about all the Circles, I'm talking about the Kirkwall Circle and using Anders and Alain's experience of it as evidence. According to them, the Kirkwall Circle is worst than Ferelden's and Starkhaven's. Alain said that the Mages are beaten there and that Ser Karras rapes him and threatens to turn him tranquil if he resists. Anders noticed that more and more mages have been turn tranquil even those who've passed their Harrowing. 

Not every public school is good either. 

[rasloveszev]

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The answer is simple - the abuse isn't as spread as many pro-mages want to belive.

To quote Bethany:
"The templaers are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views."

You mean like how she says Ser Alrik "harrases" mages, instead of saying that he forces Harrowed mages to become Tranquil and then uses them as his sex slaves, including Ella who's mentioned in the letter, who he hunts down and taunts will all the raping he'll done after he wipes away her mind?

Yes, the literal content of that letter is definetly reliable. 

WOAH WOAH WOAH!
I thought Ser Karras was doing all the raping? Ser Alrik was TOO?!

[Hellion Rex]

In Exile wrote...

I'll search for them. All I can recall now is his general attitude - I only recently replayed Act III with a mage Hawke and Cullen talks about how the Chantry has "dominion" over mages by divine right. There are also his comments about the Tranquil solution being a good idea. 

Hang on. Cullen never agreed with Alrik's ideas. Heck, even Meredith said no to the Tranquil solution.

[sandalisthemaker]

She talked about it in her letters. Said Alrik was a creeper and that she would avoid him. Presumably she did.

[Hellion Rex]

rasloveszev wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The answer is simple - the abuse isn't as spread as many pro-mages want to belive.

To quote Bethany:
"The templaers are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views."

You mean like how she says Ser Alrik "harrases" mages, instead of saying that he forces Harrowed mages to become Tranquil and then uses them as his sex slaves, including Ella who's mentioned in the letter, who he hunts down and taunts will all the raping he'll done after he wipes away her mind?

Yes, the literal content of that letter is definetly reliable. 

WOAH WOAH WOAH!
I thought Ser Karras was doing all the raping? Ser Alrik was TOO?!

It was implied through his dialogue towards Ella.

[Lulupab]

In Exile wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Not every mages was abused in Kirkwall.

We have no evidence of that. The only mages who talk to us - like Alain - talk about sexual abuse. We have Harrowed mages being forcibly made tranquil for exchanging so-called dangerous ideas in letters. 

For Cullen's comments, I have to find them (or you can told me), since I don't recall them.  

I'll search for them. All I can recall now is his general attitude - I only recently replayed Act III with a mage Hawke and Cullen talks about how the Chantry has "dominion" over mages by divine right. There are also his comments about the Tranquil solution being a good idea. 

You are right about cullen. Also another matter is most amusing. Three Mages of Starkhaven (Grace and others) were made tranquil chosen randomly. So this means the mastermind behind the escape and wife of a blood mage who becomes possessed later in the game remains unpunished. Also there were no proof of them being blood mage and they passed their harrowing and shouldn't have been made tranquil especially not chosen randomly for it. You can hear these comments when you speak with Alian and Grace after Grace and the others have been caught if you help them escape (in act 2)