288 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

The irony is that without blood magic, the wardens would never be able to create their joining ritual, they would never be able to slay the archdemon and the Chantry and their templars would never exist in the first place. The irony is that while many claim that blood magic created the darkspawn, it was blood magic too that saved the world from them. 

So just to blow your mind buddy, blood magic pretty much is what saved the world long time ago.

So, that's what?  Good application of blood magic 4, evil applications 30?

It means that it's biased to vilify it when it can be used for good things when handled by the right people.

That's the fun part though. Deciding who are the "right people".

[Veruin]

Jaison1986 wrote...

It means that it's biased to vilify it when it can be used for good things when handled by the right people.

I'm willing to bet those "right people" are rarer than the birth rate of mages.

[Hellion Rex]

Master Warder Z wrote...


So is Blood Magic truely required or is it do merely to replace a Mortar being used in its place? It seems any half talented Alchemist could mix the concotion together.

And i really doubt it involves blood magic considering that in the case of DAO you had the circle mages preparing the brew after the components were gathered by the Wardens, I STRONGLY doubt that they would practice blood magic right in front of the templars even at the warden's request.

Furthermore Blood Magic doesn't enter into the forumala until you run into Avernus which his speculation was the cause of its usage upon Wardens and his modified "Joining" Ritual. 

So while there has been at least one notable exception, in my eye? You don't need Blood Magic to produce Wardens, at least until more light is shed upon the subject and more of the process of its brew is revealed.

So did my lore blow your mind buddy? 

No, based on what I have gathered, the magic used in the Joining is what binds the ingredients together into something that will (A) not kill you, and ( allow you to fight darkspawn and become Grey Warden, etc. It is a type of magic involving blood, both darkspawn and Archdemon, but it isn't clear if it is indeed vanilla blood magic.

[BouncyFrag]

Those hands

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

It means that it's biased to vilify it when it can be used for good things when handled by the right people.

I'm willing to bet those "right people" are rarer than the birth rate of mages.

Ah, but that doesn't mean that they aren't out there though.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Ah, but that doesn't mean that they aren't out there though.

Not at all.  But, like you said.  Have fun sifting through everyone.

[LobselVith8]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Gray Wardens have been a subject of concern obviously within the chantry and templars considering that apparently at least a few Apostates including Blood Mages warrented enough talent to actually join and thus be shielded from Justice in the name of combating the blight.

But individually? Yes i do, Blood Magic shouldn't be allowed, it shouldn't be condoned and it shouldn't be painted as something other then what it is.

It's a school of magic - that's precisely what it is.

Master Warder Z wrote...

And Merrill wasn't corrupted? Seeking out console with Demons, Ignoring the perril of the path, Falling pray to Demonic suggestion all point out otherwise. I mean i would prefer to see that being demonic corruption to her just being that stupid but perhaps its a mixture of childish and willful ignorance, stupidity and corruption.

Merrill pursued her own goal of reconstructing the Eluvian after extrapolating information from the shard and studying the lore. She spoke to a trapped and impotent demon who was sundered from the Fade, she doesn't fall prey to Audacity, and she isn't stupid simply for having a differing view than you.

Master Warder Z wrote...

And the Warden was a PC so unless if you want to roleplay the corruption into it, it wouldn't become a subject of concern within DAO because it wasn't a feature implemented. 

The Warden being a blood mage is basically no different than the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic; it's even explicitly mentioned as not being prohibited by the Wardens.

[Jaison1986]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...


So is Blood Magic truely required or is it do merely to replace a Mortar being used in its place? It seems any half talented Alchemist could mix the concotion together.

And i really doubt it involves blood magic considering that in the case of DAO you had the circle mages preparing the brew after the components were gathered by the Wardens, I STRONGLY doubt that they would practice blood magic right in front of the templars even at the warden's request.

Furthermore Blood Magic doesn't enter into the forumala until you run into Avernus which his speculation was the cause of its usage upon Wardens and his modified "Joining" Ritual. 

So while there has been at least one notable exception, in my eye? You don't need Blood Magic to produce Wardens, at least until more light is shed upon the subject and more of the process of its brew is revealed.

So did my lore blow your mind buddy? 

No, based on what I have gathered, the magic used in the Joining is what binds the ingredients together into something that will (A) not kill you, and ( allow you to fight darkspawn and become Grey Warden, etc. It is a type of magic involving blood, both darkspawn and Archdemon, but it isn't clear if it is indeed vanilla blood magic.

Besides, it's not like the ancient Grey wardens suddenly came together and said: "Look guys! I just conveniently found out that by mixing lyrium, darkspawn blood, and archdemon blood we can create this semi fatal poison that will make us immune to the taint and allow us to slay the Archdemon for good!" They obviously had experiment dozens of times and went through trial and error to get the final result, meaning they tried everything to get it right. And adding that some of the first wardens were mages from the imperium, you can guess what kind of magic they used to figure it out how to create the joining.

[LobselVith8]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Truely? Considering that me just skimming through both the DA wiki and World of Thedas guide to DA stated little about the Warden's Joining other then the known Ingreidents and how fatal it is.

So is Blood Magic truely required or is it do merely to replace a Mortar being used in its place? It seems any half talented Alchemist could mix the concotion together. 

The Joining itself is basically blood magic. WoT reads that the Joining "requires darkspawn blood". It's stated that magic is used to make it "at least remotely possible to consume" (page 151).

[Master Warder Z_]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Truely? Considering that me just skimming through both the DA wiki and World of Thedas guide to DA stated little about the Warden's Joining other then the known Ingreidents and how fatal it is.

So is Blood Magic truely required or is it do merely to replace a Mortar being used in its place? It seems any half talented Alchemist could mix the concotion together. 

The Joining itself is basically blood magic. WoT reads that the Joining "requires darkspawn blood". It's stated that magic is used to make it "at least remotely possible to consume" (page 151).

Indeed but considering the components aren't exactly mentioned in the manner which they defuse the toxicity that statement by it self doesn't imply blood magic anymore then it implies creation magic.

[Master Warder Z_]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Gray Wardens have been a subject of concern obviously within the chantry and templars considering that apparently at least a few Apostates including Blood Mages warrented enough talent to actually join and thus be shielded from Justice in the name of combating the blight.

But individually? Yes i do, Blood Magic shouldn't be allowed, it shouldn't be condoned and it shouldn't be painted as something other then what it is.

It's a school of magic - that's precisely what it is.

Master Warder Z wrote...

And Merrill wasn't corrupted? Seeking out console with Demons, Ignoring the perril of the path, Falling pray to Demonic suggestion all point out otherwise. I mean i would prefer to see that being demonic corruption to her just being that stupid but perhaps its a mixture of childish and willful ignorance, stupidity and corruption.

Merrill pursued her own goal of reconstructing the Eluvian after extrapolating information from the shard and studying the lore. She spoke to a trapped and impotent demon who was sundered from the Fade, she doesn't fall prey to Audacity, and she isn't stupid simply for having a differing view than you.

Master Warder Z wrote...

And the Warden was a PC so unless if you want to roleplay the corruption into it, it wouldn't become a subject of concern within DAO because it wasn't a feature implemented. 

The Warden being a blood mage is basically no different than the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic; it's even explicitly mentioned as not being prohibited by the Wardens.

1.It's the usage of blood implacement of Mana, that by it self? I have no issue with its the method of its aquirement, its source so to speak. Its pure idiocy to let Power gleaned and formed by demons to be used by those they wish to possess above all others.

So its a threat first and foremost, not a school of magery.

2.  After learning of the mirror from a source that would be biased at best, She does fail to realize the demon was merely using her and her desires against her, she let demonic influence cloud her common sense, when in truth all it was doing is corrupting her. My Final point is, its either pure idiocy or demonic corruption.

I mean the Dalish obviously know the risks of consorting with Demons yet Merril was willing to overlook them all for at the word of a demon, if that isn't corruption i don't know what is.

3.That doesn't mean it doesn't affect them, Its just another feature that wasn't implemented.

[TK514]

Using Magic ON blood is not Blood Magic, any more than using Magic on candles is Candle Magic.

Using Magic powered by pain and suffering rather than lyrium, most commonly but not exclusively demonstrated by overtly spilling blood, is Blood Magic.

[Veruin]

TK514 wrote...

Using Magic ON blood is not Blood Magic, any more than using Magic on candles is Candle Magic.

Using Magic powered by pain and suffering rather than lyrium, most commonly but not exclusively demonstrated by overtly spilling blood, is Blood Magic.

Yea, doesn't Finn say that if a spell isn't fueled by blood, then it isn't blood magic?  That it's just a grey area?

[Master Warder Z_]

Veruin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Using Magic ON blood is not Blood Magic, any more than using Magic on candles is Candle Magic.

Using Magic powered by pain and suffering rather than lyrium, most commonly but not exclusively demonstrated by overtly spilling blood, is Blood Magic.

Yea, doesn't Finn say that if a spell isn't fueled by blood, then it isn't blood magic?  That it's just a grey area?

Hence why i have no issue with Scying or the usage of blood containers.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

How did she avoid it..

It is obvious isn't it ?

Bethany does have very interesting and distracting...assets....

[Skorm777]

Veruin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Using Magic ON blood is not Blood Magic, any more than using Magic on candles is Candle Magic.

Using Magic powered by pain and suffering rather than lyrium, most commonly but not exclusively demonstrated by overtly spilling blood, is Blood Magic.

Yea, doesn't Finn say that if a spell isn't fueled by blood, then it isn't blood magic?  That it's just a grey area?

Blood magic isn't fueled by blood in the first place. The power comes from the pain and sufferering inflicted by the wound. 

[Rotward]

Plot shield. If she were abused, it would be too easy to side with the mages, bioware likes choices to be 'difficult.' Same deal with (mass effect 3 spoilers) the destroy ending in ME3. It kills the geth. Why? No reason, they just needed to make destroy a more difficult choice for the player.

[Secretlyapotato]

Because most templars are nice and don't usually rape mages?

[Master Warder Z_]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Because most templars are nice and don't usually rape mages?

There you go 

[Invisible Man]

a few things to post here.
first, wardens are basically the spectres of the da universe (I'm simplifying that, they aren't as protected as spectres, I know). so they can get away with things most others wouldn't. like getting mages to use blood magic for the joining before the battle for ostigar (or however it's spelled)

second, blood magic isn't a corrupting force on the mage using it, it simply makes demonic possession easier on the demon, so it's mostly stupid or crazy mages who use it. that's from the codex. (I paraphrased it)

third, if I were a templar I wouldn't want to get on hawks bad side, even in act 2. and bethany has protection from within the circle, templar order, and kirkwall government (namely the people hawk knows).

finally, I hope. in da:o it's stated in the codex that templars have the divine right to do as they will with mages in their charge. and some would say mages not in their charge too (though that part isn't in the codex).

Modifié par Invisible Man, 05 janvier 2014 - 02:00 .

[Veruin]

Invisible Man wrote...
second, blood magic isn't a corrupting force on the mage using it, it simply makes demonic possession easier on the demon, so it's mostly stupid or crazy mages who use it. that's from the codex. (I paraphrased it)

I wouldn't say it's blood magic itself that corrupts mages, but more so the power it grants.  Almost like the "I'm a god" attitude doctors seem to get.  Unless I just happen to know some terrible doctors?

[Invisible Man]

Veruin wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...
second, blood magic isn't a corrupting force on the mage using it, it simply makes demonic possession easier on the demon, so it's mostly stupid or crazy mages who use it. that's from the codex. (I paraphrased it)

I wouldn't say it's blood magic itself that corrupts mages, but more so the power it grants.  Almost like the "I'm a god" attitude doctors seem to get.  Unless I just happen to know some terrible doctors?

I wouldn't rule out the statement about the doctors you know, about them being terrible. you might want to switch your gp. (I'm not british, I just watch too much bbc)

[LobselVith8]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Joining itself is basically blood magic. WoT reads that the Joining "requires darkspawn blood". It's stated that magic is used to make it "at least remotely possible to consume" (page 151). 

Indeed but considering the components aren't exactly mentioned in the manner which they defuse the toxicity that statement by it self doesn't imply blood magic anymore then it implies creation magic. 

I'm not certain where you're getting your notion about blood magic from. The developers stated that even the phylacteries are a form of blood magic.

[Lulupab]

Guys please, you either skip conversations or don't pay attention. Every mage that Hawke can click on and start a conversation with talks about the abuses. I started a new game and just went through this. Anders quoting Karl's letter which was the main cause Anders went to Kirkwall to save him









This was the diplomatic response to all this:

Modifié par Rassler, 05 janvier 2014 - 02:46 .

[LobselVith8]

Master Warder Z wrote...

1.It's the usage of blood implacement of Mana, that by it self? I have no issue with its the method of its aquirement, its source so to speak. Its pure idiocy to let Power gleaned and formed by demons to be used by those they wish to possess above all others.

So its a threat first and foremost, not a school of magery.

There's no evidence blood magic originated from demons. It's inception is a matter of dispute. And we've met mages who use blood magic and aren't inherently evil; even Duncan notes some Grey Warden mages use blood magic to give them an edge against the darkspawn.

Master Warder Z wrote...

2.  After learning of the mirror from a source that would be biased at best, She does fail to realize the demon was merely using her and her desires against her, she let demonic influence cloud her common sense, when in truth all it was doing is corrupting her. My Final point is, its either pure idiocy or demonic corruption.

After blatantly ignoring the fact that Merrill got her information about the Eluvians from the shard and the lore she gathered, you decided to say her efforts to stop the plight of the People were idiotic or corrupt because she didn't share your pro-templar point of view. She learned blood magic from a trapped demon that was powerless to harm her because it was trapped inside a totem by ancient elven magic since the war between the Arlathan elves and the Tevinter Magisters, but you're not addressing that because...?

Master Warder Z wrote...

I mean the Dalish obviously know the risks of consorting with Demons yet Merril was willing to overlook them all for at the word of a demon, if that isn't corruption i don't know what is.

The Dalish don't even have the same religious views as Andrastians to see Spirits and Demons; they see all denizens of the Beyond as spirits, and view them all as dangerous. And I'm not certain why you keep ignoring the fact that Audacity was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; all it could do was talk and show images, nothing more.

Master Warder Z wrote...

3.That doesn't mean it doesn't affect them, Its just another feature that wasn't implemented. 

There is no evidence anywhere that states that blood magic automatically corrupts the user, and we've met blood mages who aren't evil or inherently corrupted.