288 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

No I am not, Verium. I didn't say a word about the substance of the law, I said I wasn't arguing him. My point was exactly what I already clearly said, that you can't say something is wrong BECAUSE it's illegal. He made it clear that he thinks that law is final and end of discussion, that if it's illegal then it is wrong by default and if it's legal then it's right by default. I'm saying that's horse crap.

[MisterJB]

andy69156915 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You don't know me very well, do you?

Because who actually pays attention should know very well I'm not anti-mage, even tough I frequently butt heads with some more vocal pro-mages.

Reeeaaallly?

From what I've seen, you're as bad or worse than Mister JB is.

Considering MisterJB is not anti-mage, Lotion mustn't be as well.

[Veruin]

MisterJB wrote...

Considering MisterJB is not anti-mage, Lotion mustn't be as well.

But....but...you don't agree with mage freedom.  So you MUST be anti mage!

@ Andy.  Just checking.

[TheKomandorShepard]

andy69156915 wrote...

No I am not, Verium. I didn't say a word about the substance of the law, I said I wasn't arguing him. My point was exactly what I already clearly said, that you can't say something is wrong BECAUSE it's illegal. He made it clear that he thinks that law is final and end of discussion, that if it's illegal then it is wrong by default and if it's legal then it's right by default. I'm saying that's horse crap.

Well you can say that something is right or wrong because it is law because what is right or wrong is a matter of morality.however it would be stupid for mages follow law peoples who abuse them and lock them for own convenience so calling how dear mage broke that law is just stupid as well like how to defend tevinter and condemn andraste because she broke tevinter law...

 

[andy6915]

MisterJB wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You don't know me very well, do you?

Because who actually pays attention should know very well I'm not anti-mage, even tough I frequently butt heads with some more vocal pro-mages.

Reeeaaallly?

From what I've seen, you're as bad or worse than Mister JB is.

Considering MisterJB is not anti-mage, Lotion mustn't be as well.

You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

[MisterJB]

andy69156915 wrote...
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

I did not say I was pro-mage, I said I was not anti-mage.
Are you suggesting that one must be one or the other? Either you're with us or you're against us?

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 janvier 2014 - 03:53 .

[Veruin]

andy69156915 wrote..
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that

When did saying "I'm not anti mage" mean "I'm pro mage"? 

Komondor is anti mage.  (He's anti everything really)

Mister JB is not.

Modifié par Veruin, 05 janvier 2014 - 03:53 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote..
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that

When did saying "I'm not anti mage" mean "I'm pro mage"? 

Komondor is anti mage.  (He's anti everything really)

Mister JB is not.

Well true but not anti everything ,well im at least in that conflict simple because entire trio chantry , templars and mages weaken and are destructive for thedas.So im on my own side and everything that is danger for it will burn...

[Hellion Rex]

andy69156915 wrote...
I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

Well, my Hawke turned Fenris pro-mage so...

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

Well, my Hawke turned Fenris pro-mage so...

Thats very easy when you are a mage Hawke. Fenris gains rivalry when Mage Hawke coughs! You can start by +30 rivalry after exiting Danerius mansion. Rival Fenris realizes he is a hypocrite and he actually would rather be a mage.

[Lotion Soronarr]

andy69156915 wrote...

No I am not, Verium. I didn't say a word about the substance of the law, I said I wasn't arguing him. My point was exactly what I already clearly said, that you can't say something is wrong BECAUSE it's illegal. He made it clear that he thinks that law is final and end of discussion, that if it's illegal then it is wrong by default and if it's legal then it's right by default. I'm saying that's horse crap.

I said that everyone knows dabbling with blood magic is agaisnt the law (for good reasons), so when a mage dabbles in blood magic, he should very well know what's coming next (execution).
Wether you agree with the law or not, you know it's there, you know it's the law of the land and you know the police will frak you up if you break it.

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

Well, my Hawke turned Fenris pro-mage so...

Thats very easy when you are a mage Hawke. Fenris gains rivalry when Mage Hawke coughs! You can start by +30 rivalry after exiting Danerius mansion. Rival Fenris realizes he is a hypocrite and he actually would rather be a mage.

Haha, I friended him all the way to max Friendship. Or maybe that's just because my male Hawke and he were in a relationship...

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

I did not say I was pro-mage, I said I was not anti-mage.
Are you suggesting that one must be one or the other? Either you're with us or you're against us?

andy probably believes that being pro-templar makes someone automatically anti-mage.

[Auintus]

Saying pro-mage and anti-mage really oversimplifies the issue. I'm anti-Alrik and pro-Cullen. You really can't lump mages or templars into groups and assume they are all the same.
As I understand it, pro-mage is really more like pro-mage freedom, while anti-mage is more pro-Circle containment system. And even that is an oversimplification.

[Magdalena11]

This is a thread about Bethany. Bringing the tired old mage templar debate is not going to do any good at all. Every single returning player already has an individual opinion about mages and templars that can be deduced from reading what they've written.

If you want to say that Bethany escaped being abused because templars are benevolent caretakers whose sole concern is to prevent mages from their own destruction and that of all Thedas, that's up to you and at least refers to the OP.

If you want to say that Bethany was brainwashed by the chantry and not a threat to the evil templars who would otherwise lock her up, steal her virtue and tie her to the nearest train track that's up to you too.

What I'm getting tired of seeing is a wall of posts that doesn't mention the name Bethany once.

Edit:  Can we play nice and stop throwing the terms pro-mage and pro-templar around like they're insults?

Modifié par Magdalena11, 05 janvier 2014 - 04:33 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well if so then i will say that bethany had plot armor like merril who would be end abomnation very quickly. 

[Auintus]

@Magdalena11
That's how conversations work. New topics come up and things keep running. If someone had to start a new thread every time a different topic came up, it'd just waste a lot of time and space. If you have new thoughts regarding the Bethany issue, by all means, share. But don't condemn the current topic, if the tone is still reasonably civil.

[daveliam]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote..
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that

When did saying "I'm not anti mage" mean "I'm pro mage"? 

Komondor is anti mage.  (He's anti everything really)

Mister JB is not.

Things are always black and white with Andy.  It's not worth getting into it with him because not only will he continue to paint everything in absolutes, he also get's very touchy in his posts when you push him on the matter. 

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Yet Merrill also remains one of the mages who doesn't get possessed, had contingency plans, and seems to know more about how to defend oneself from demons than any Andrastian mage, and even her own Keeper.

Merrill: All spirits are dangerous. I'm sorry you didn't know this.

Merrill: A Sloth Demon, quick, think active thoughts like running, jumping!

And let's not forget the difference between Anders and Merrill figuring out if Kerren is possessed or not. Anders blasts him with magic and says 'if he was possessed, simply attacking him would draw the demon out,' when I'm sure that a smart Desire or Pride demon wouldn't get drawn out like that, compared to Merrill who examines his blood and knows almost immediately he's not possessed.

And when it comes down to it, Merrill never actually made any deals with any demons. She learned blood magic from a demon sundered from the Fade and trapped inside a statue, and then removed her proximity to said demon so he couldn't influence her. Audacity completely lacks capacity to visit her in dreams, approach her in the Fade or so on, because he isn't there. He can only affect people who are physically nearby.

In the end though, it was Merethari who got possessed, and not Merrill. The so-called expert among the Dalish, also the one who refused to do any research a all, is also the one who knew (short-story) that proximity to Audacity was dangerous and chose to remain on Sundermount anyway. 

And one last thing: The mirror did not kill anyone in the Dalish origin. It was the Darkspawn taint and corruption. The fact that she successfully cleansed of the taint removed the original danger. 

To be honest only reasons why merril wasn't possessed are that pride demon didn't want her only keeper and her plot armor because she couldn't stand two seconds when demon started tempt her in fade sp defend herself my a**it is pure plot armor.

No uldred who was pride demon and connor who was desire demon they were very aggressive and unstable ignoring that they were ax-crazy like pretty much every other abomnation we saw so i can see anders method working. 

And yet demon screwd her and manipulate to get keeper so demon taught her not for free and she wanted do it again and keeper had to pay for that.As i said dumb peoples like merril shouldn't deal with demons because even for very intelligent mage that would be problem especially that demons can read you like book and always have hidden and harming goal. Of course keeper got idiot ball as well but everyone warned merril and i can bet if keeper wouldn't do that merril would end possesed so she saved her life pretty much anders and fenris tell her that with brutal honesty. 

She was fool and paid in the end she was architect of her own fate but she was too dumb to create something good.   

So ultimately marethari sacrifice , plot armor and hawke (in fade) saved her from being abomnation. 

And i want add to that even morrigan who was ruthless bi*** and blood mage was smart to not deal with demon...  

First, there's no evidence that Morrigan was a blood mage. We never see her using blood magic in battle.

Second, no one saved Merrill from being an abomination. Even Marethari never claims that Merrill would release Audacity from the totem; the Keeper thought that Audacity would escape from a restored Eluvian, even though there's no evidence to support this, and it's not even the reason she initially opposed Merrill's efforts in Act I or II. Marethari was likely manipulated by Audacity.

Third, are you seriously denigrating Merrill because she - and every other companion (except Anders) - betray Hawke in "Night Terrors"? An absurd plot that has virtually everyone try to murder Hawke seconds after a demon offers them something in return...?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:13 .

[Jaison1986]

Magdalena11 wrote...

This is a thread about Bethany. Bringing the tired old mage templar debate is not going to do any good at all. Every single returning player already has an individual opinion about mages and templars that can be deduced from reading what they've written.

If you want to say that Bethany escaped being abused because templars are benevolent caretakers whose sole concern is to prevent mages from their own destruction and that of all Thedas, that's up to you and at least refers to the OP.

If you want to say that Bethany was brainwashed by the chantry and not a threat to the evil templars who would otherwise lock her up, steal her virtue and tie her to the nearest train track that's up to you too.

What I'm getting tired of seeing is a wall of posts that doesn't mention the name Bethany once.

Edit:  Can we play nice and stop throwing the terms pro-mage and pro-templar around like they're insults?

*Sarcastic tone* Mage this, templar that, is there anywere at BSN people won't talk about this?

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
You, pro mage? Hahahaha!... No.

I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that. 

I did not say I was pro-mage, I said I was not anti-mage.
Are you suggesting that one must be one or the other? Either you're with us or you're against us?

andy probably believes that being pro-templar makes someone automatically anti-mage. 

I think Andy might be addressing whether one agrees or disagrees with the templars governing mages and the Chantry controlled Circles when he's addressing the mage issue.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...


First, there's no evidence that Morrigan was a blood mage. We never see her using blood magic in battle.

Second, no one saved Merrill from being an abomination. Even Marethari never claims that Merrill would release Audacity from the totem; the Keeper thought that Audacity would escape from a restored Eluvian, even though there's no evidence to support this, and it's not even the reason she initially opposed Merrill's efforts in Act I or II. Marethari was likely manipulated by Audacity.

Third, are you seriously denigrating Merrill because she - and every other companion (except Anders) - betray Hawke in "Night Terrors"? An absurd plot that has virtually everyone try to murder Hawke seconds after a demon offers them something in return...?

Alistair refers to her as blood mage and she is using blood magic (ritual and yes she tells you that) besides i don't see that she would have any moral qualms and she wants power and blood magic can give it her.

Demon always is fishing for mage so she would end possessed anyway and well she takes hawke for a reason to kill her... She is stupid and in end was entire time manipulated by demon if demon would control her simple he would made her to go and be possessed immediately... And yes plot armor , her mentor and hawke saved this dumb brick from being abomnation... 

So what she was only mage that fell to that for others such experience is unique when for mage it is every day of their life they can be possessed at every moment do you want me belive that person who was easy victim for pride demon not once but two times can resist every day of her life when most mages are toys for demons?   

And here we can see her ultimate stupidity when she can't trick even dumb guard she can even see trick such dumb brick should be possessed as first.

 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:36 .

[rasloveszev]

eluvianix wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

Well, my Hawke turned Fenris pro-mage so...

Ha! Fenris is too ignorant to be pro-mage. It takes takes him seven years to figure out he's a total hypocrite and that only IF Hawke points it  out.

[Hellion Rex]

rasloveszev wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
I would sooner believe Fenris saying he was pro mage before I believe you saying that.

Well, my Hawke turned Fenris pro-mage so...

Ha! Fenris is too ignorant to be pro-mage. It takes takes him seven years to figure out he's a total hypocrite and that only IF Hawke points it  out.

Nah. Having a mage as a lover, had certain.... "benefits".

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Alistair refers to her as blood mage and she is using blood magic (ritual and yes she tells you that) besides i don't see that she would have any moral qualms and she wants power and blood magic can give it her.

Alistair calls her a maleficar; her non-Circle sanctioned shapeshifting abilities address why she's considered one by Alistair and Wynne. As for the dark ritual, I don't see how that makes her a blood mage in the same sense as Jowan or Merrill, who use blood magic in various ways. I mean, if the dark ritual alone is sufficient enough for you, do you also consider Finn a blood mage as well for using a method that (like the dark ritual) can be viewed as blood magic?

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Demon always is fishing for mage so she would end possessed anyway and well she takes hawke for a reason to kill her... She is stupid and in end was entire time manipulated by demon if demon would control her simple he would made her to go and be possessed immediately... And yes plot armor , her mentor and hawke saved this dumb brick from being abomnation...

Audacity was trapped for centuries inside a totem, and wasn't in a position to possess anyone until Marethari intentionally released it.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

So what she was only mage that fell to that for others such experience is unique when for mage it is every day of their life they can be possessed at every moment do you want me belive that person who was easy victim for pride demon not once but two times can resist every day of her life when most mages are toys for demons?

She's the only non-possessed mage who can go with your Hawke. Plot railroading every companion (but Anders) into betrayal in a matter of seconds doesn't really help your case.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And here we can see her ultimate stupidity when she can't trick even dumb guard she can even see trick such dumb brick should be possessed as first.

While we see Merrill's intellect demonstrated time and time again, from discerning whether Kerran was possessed by a demon to identifying the type of creature the Profane Abomination was.