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[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, based on the early elven successes and the duration of the conflict, the impression I was left with was that the armies of the elves were formidable and motivated but much fewer in number than the Orlesians. That and I suspect that made one or more strategic blunders.

[The Hierophant]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

World of Thedas says that only Orlesian troops took part in the Exalted March of the Dales.

Thanks for the heads up. (lol @ Dalish)

Also, without the Chantry do you think it's possible for Orlesian city states to develop into an empire by the time the 2nd Blight roles around?

[MisterJB]

There wasn't even a Ferelden before the Exalted Age which was the fifth age while the March on the Dales ocurred on the Glory Age, three hundred centuries before Calenhad was even born.
Of course, that doesn't necessarely mean there couldn't have been unionist teyrns before the kingdom was founded. I vaguely remembre the Cousland already owning titles of nobilty before Calenhad.


Regardless, World of Thedas states no other nation sent soldiers to the Exalted March on the Dales and given the fact it was written very recently in order to expose as much of the lore as possible, I'd say it takes precedence.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The dales deserved it anyway, who stays neutral during a blight & just watches as nearby cities get destroyed by darkspawn

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Hierophant wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

World of Thedas says that only Orlesian troops took part in the Exalted March of the Dales.

Thanks for the heads up. (lol @ Dalish)

Also, without the Chantry do you think it's possible for Orlesian city states to develop into an empire by the time the 2nd Blight roles around?

Well it was the Orlesian city states unifying to form the Orlesian Empire that allowed the modern Chantry to be created in the first place.

[The Hierophant]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

World of Thedas says that only Orlesian troops took part in the Exalted March of the Dales.

Thanks for the heads up. (lol @ Dalish)

Also, without the Chantry do you think it's possible for Orlesian city states to develop into an empire by the time the 2nd Blight roles around?

Well it was the Orlesian city states unifying to form the Orlesian Empire that allowed the modern Chantry to be created in the first place.

Damnit, my fault for the senior moment. Smh it's in dragonflight288's post too.

http://dragonage.wik..._of_the_Chantry

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rotward wrote...
The chantry is a problem because it fails to differentiate between a society of mages that believes it should rule all none-mages, and a kid halfway around the world who happens to share one trait: magic. 

Note that both the qun and the chantry are religions. They create a culture of fear and hate toward mages. Without them there would still be distrust, and perhaps fear, but at least the educated would differentiate between a wynne and a tevinter slaver.

They already do diferentiate.
But the fact remains that both Wynne and a tevinter magister and Connor are all still walking bombs that may or may not go off.

The most effective way to defeat the imperium would have been replacing it. Create a government that treats mages as people. Punish crimes, otherwise leave them be, give them no special treatment. Whether you treat someone better or worse than those around them, you're giving them special treatment, and that fosters a sense of entitlement in some.

It won't work, because mages are fundamentally different. One-size-fits-all won't work.

[Vandicus]

The Inquisition was the way mages were dealt with before the Chantry. So presumably them.

[LobselVith8]

Threat300 wrote...

The dales deserved it anyway, who stays neutral during a blight & just watches as nearby cities get destroyed by darkspawn

Considering the Dalish claim they were invaded because they wouldn't convert to the religion of the Chantry, I wouldn't say they deserved it.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

The dales deserved it anyway, who stays neutral during a blight & just watches as nearby cities get destroyed by darkspawn

Considering the Dalish claim they were invaded because they wouldn't convert to the religion of the Chantry, I wouldn't say they deserved it.

I thought it was because they angered Orlais by watching cities get destroyed by darkspawn & doing nothing to help then attacking Red Crossing as a response to chantry missionaries visiting the Dales

[LobselVith8]

Threat300 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering the Dalish claim they were invaded because they wouldn't convert to the religion of the Chantry, I wouldn't say they deserved it.

I thought it was because they angered Orlais by watching cities get destroyed by darkspawn & doing nothing to help then attacking Red Crossing as a response to chantry missionaries visiting the Dales

Considering that the Dales had issues with Orlais prior to the Second Blight, to the point where Drakon's ambition to invade and conquer the Free Marches was halted due to their troubles with the Dales, their issues existed prior to the Dales not helping their nemesis during the Blight.

Also, templars are referenced (by the Dalish) as being sent after the elves kicked out the missionaries of their sovereign territory. You know, the military arm of the Chantry.

There's more than one side to the story.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 06 janvier 2014 - 02:37 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The elves of the dales were ungrateful imo, they got released from slavery & given land by humans but then got hostile if humanity dared approach the territory that was gifted to them.

[LobselVith8]

Threat300 wrote...

The elves of the dales were ungrateful imo, they got released from slavery & given land by humans but then got hostile if humanity dared approach the territory that was gifted to them.

Shartan and his people fought alongside Andraste and her followers; they earned their own homeland. And I wouldn't want a neighbor that was conquering and converting people (which is how Drakon established the Orlesian Empire, via a series of Exalted Marches) to trespass on my sovereign territory, either.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

The elves of the dales were ungrateful imo, they got released from slavery & given land by humans but then got hostile if humanity dared approach the territory that was gifted to them.

Shartan and his people fought alongside Andraste and her followers; they earned their own homeland. And I wouldn't want a neighbor that was conquering and converting people (which is how Drakon established the Orlesian Empire, via a series of Exalted Marches) to trespass on my sovereign territory, either.

They wanted to be isolated for the sole reason that they saw humans as a plague that had took their immortality away, the dales were likely hostile to any non elf that came near it's borders.

[LobselVith8]

Threat300 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Shartan and his people fought alongside Andraste and her followers; they earned their own homeland. And I wouldn't want a neighbor that was conquering and converting people (which is how Drakon established the Orlesian Empire, via a series of Exalted Marches) to trespass on my sovereign territory, either. 

They wanted to be isolated for the sole reason that they saw humans as a plague that had took their immortality away, the dales were likely hostile to any non elf that came near it's borders.

We don't know whether or not elven lore about their immortality is accurate. The Emerald Knights guarded the border of the Dales and kept people out. I'm not seeing the point in vilifying them for refusing to abandon their culture or their religion.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I just see dalish elves as being extremely arrogant & racist, murdering humans that accidentally bump into them or go near their camps & insulting city elves for living with humans, & it's all mostly because they believe they were a superior immortal race once.

Modifié par Threat300, 06 janvier 2014 - 03:22 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Shartan and his people fought alongside Andraste and her followers; they earned their own homeland. And I wouldn't want a neighbor that was conquering and converting people (which is how Drakon established the Orlesian Empire, via a series of Exalted Marches) to trespass on my sovereign territory, either. 

They wanted to be isolated for the sole reason that they saw humans as a plague that had took their immortality away, the dales were likely hostile to any non elf that came near it's borders.

We don't know whether or not elven lore about their immortality is accurate. The Emerald Knights guarded the border of the Dales and kept people out. I'm not seeing the point in vilifying them for refusing to abandon their culture or their religion.

The point is to villify them because they would rather see the world wither and die, than "lower" themselves to help out the humans with "their" Blight.

[LobselVith8]

Threat300 wrote...

I just see dalish elves as being extremely arrogant & racist, murdering humans that accidentally bump into them or go near their camps & insulting city elves for living with humans, & it's all mostly because they believe they were a superior immortal race once.

Duncan notes how many humans see elves as less than people. I'm not certain why you think all Dalish murder humans, either; the Sabrae clan welcomed Duncan, and they later warned away the templars who tortured one of their child hunters instead of immediately attacking them. As for the city elves, they have insulting views on the Dalish, too; that's made clear in the City Elf Origin.

As for the last part, we don't know whether or not the Arlathan elves were immortal or not. The Dalish believe it to be true; I don't see the point in condemning them for it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

I just see dalish elves as being extremely arrogant & racist, murdering humans that accidentally bump into them or go near their camps & insulting city elves for living with humans, & it's all mostly because they believe they were a superior immortal race once.

Duncan notes how many humans see elves as less than people. I'm not certain why you think all Dalish murder humans, either; the Sabrae clan welcomed Duncan, and they later warned away the templars who tortured one of their child hunters instead of immediately attacking them. As for the city elves, they have insulting views on the Dalish, too; that's made clear in the City Elf Origin.

As for the last part, we don't know whether or not the Arlathan elves were immortal or not. The Dalish believe it to be true; I don't see the point in condemning them for it.

Duncan is not the emperor of Humans, and was probably embelishing. And could the assumption that Dalish Clans kills humans who wander too close, be because that IT IS IN THE LORE? I think that is why.

Oh, and if you are a hunter of the Dalish, then you are NOT a child in the eyes of the Dalish anymore.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know whether or not elven lore about their immortality is accurate. The Emerald Knights guarded the border of the Dales and kept people out. I'm not seeing the point in vilifying them for refusing to abandon their culture or their religion.

The point is to villify them because they would rather see the world wither and die, than "lower" themselves to help out the humans with "their" Blight. 

I didn't realize Orlais - the empire that was forcibly converting and conquering it's neighbors to create a society under the worship of the Maker, and an empire that was prevented from invading the Free Marches due to Drakon's problems with the Dales - counted as "the world".

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The dalish origin can show 3 humans getting murdered for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, they see city elves as inferior going so far as saying only dalish are true elves & see themselves as superior beings that were robbed of their immortality by vermin "shems"

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know whether or not elven lore about their immortality is accurate. The Emerald Knights guarded the border of the Dales and kept people out. I'm not seeing the point in vilifying them for refusing to abandon their culture or their religion.

The point is to villify them because they would rather see the world wither and die, than "lower" themselves to help out the humans with "their" Blight. 

I didn't realize Orlais - the empire that was forcibly converting and conquering it's neighbors to create a society under the worship of the Maker, and an empire that was prevented from invading the Free Marches due to Drakon's problems with the Dales - counted as "the world".

They did not help ANY nation during the Blight. THAT count as the world.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Duncan notes how many humans see elves as less than people. I'm not certain why you think all Dalish murder humans, either; the Sabrae clan welcomed Duncan, and they later warned away the templars who tortured one of their child hunters instead of immediately attacking them. As for the city elves, they have insulting views on the Dalish, too; that's made clear in the City Elf Origin.

As for the last part, we don't know whether or not the Arlathan elves were immortal or not. The Dalish believe it to be true; I don't see the point in condemning them for it. 

Duncan is not the emperor of Humans, and was probably embelishing.

I don't see why you think he's embellishing when he's speaking to an elven protagonist who has faced human racism.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And could the assumption that Dalish Clans kills humans who wander too close, be because that IT IS IN THE LORE? I think that is why.

It's not in the lore that all the Dalish clans kill humans who get to close, or even that most do. It's addressed they usually avoid human settlements.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh, and if you are a hunter of the Dalish, then you are NOT a child in the eyes of the Dalish anymore. 

I'll defer to the actual dialogue that was spoken, if you don't mind.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know whether or not elven lore about their immortality is accurate. The Emerald Knights guarded the border of the Dales and kept people out. I'm not seeing the point in vilifying them for refusing to abandon their culture or their religion.

The point is to villify them because they would rather see the world wither and die, than "lower" themselves to help out the humans with "their" Blight. 

I didn't realize Orlais - the empire that was forcibly converting and conquering it's neighbors to create a society under the worship of the Maker, and an empire that was prevented from invading the Free Marches due to Drakon's problems with the Dales - counted as "the world".

It could have been Ferelden or Rivain getting attacked by darkspawn & the dales wouldn't have helped simply because they were humans.