192 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

OP, did you ever settle on an ending?

[OdanUrr]

spirosz wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Writer intent in a work is mostly irrelevant

That is just stupid. 

I can't tell if you're serious.

Don't be so riddikulus.

Fixed.

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

Darks1d3 wrote...

True, it's their story to tell. That doesn't mean it wasn't foolish. If they wanted me to sympathize with the geth, they shouldn't have had painted the geth as souless machines in ME1, or isolationists who didn't even attempt to stop the heretics from helping the reapers start their harvest in ME2.

That is just ridiculous.

The entire point is to establish something to the player and then reveal it as false. Is something like betrayal 'foolish' because they narrative established a character as good beforehand? No. That's just silly.

So... now they didn't spend three hundred years shooting down anyone who entered their space, or two years ignoring the Heretics after they ripped the Council a new one?

These things didn't go away. The writers simply did their best not to address them in the final installment; to remove it from the player's perspective without directly contradicting it.

For example, the description of Haestrom in ME3 still says no organic craft short of top-of-the-line military stealth drones has made it back intact from Geth space, but the player can never challenge the Geth representative in ME3 on the grounds that they may have had allies short of the Reapers to call on had they not shunned all attempts at communication.

[Darks1d3]

spirosz wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Writer intent in a work is mostly irrelevant

That is just stupid. 

I can't tell if you're serious.

Don't be so ridicilious.

You're just being silly

[ruggly]

The line makes sense at the time. Further along, not so much.

[dreamgazer]

(reads thread)

What in the sarcastaball is going on here?

Modifié par dreamgazer, 06 janvier 2014 - 03:52 .

[ruggly]

dreamgazer wrote...

(reads thread)

What in the sarcastiball is going on here?

Things and stuff.

[David7204]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

So... now they didn't spend three hundred years shooting down anyone who entered their space, or two years ignoring the Heretics after they ripped the Council a new one?

These things didn't go away. The writers simply did their best not to address them in the final installment; to remove it from the player's perspective without directly contradicting it.

For example, the description of Haestrom in ME3 still says no organic craft short of top-of-the-line military stealth drones has made it back intact from Geth space, but the player can never challenge the Geth representative in ME3 on the grounds that they may have had allies short of the Reapers to call on had they not shunned all attempts at communication.

First of all, your 'facts' are shoddy at best. Ashley says outright on Eden Prime the geth haven't been seen in 300 years. The codex says the Veil is unknown, and nobody has any idea whether the geth are a threat or building a massive fleet. That certainly doesn't point to the geth killing everyone who enters their space in 300 years.

On top of that, Legion explicitly says in ME 2 the heretics are not 'wrong,' and that their actions are 'true' for them. So taking action against them wouldn't make much sense. They only go to Heretic Station to stop the virus being made against the true geth.

Perhaps the writers considering these 'points' obvious.  

[Steelcan]

One of the books, the first one I believe, mentions the geth propensity for shooting envoys.

And its a math error,I don't care what Legion says, math error.

[spirosz]

I wish a lot of themes were given a more straight path along the trilogy, instead of giving little bits here and there and expecting it all to fall together in the last fifteen minutes of gameplay and then asking us - so how do you feel about these themes? Imagine if you were able to craft the story in a way that made it so anti-Synthetic so when the Destroy option eventually comes, it was a natural fit or if you were able to craft a Shepard who was fighting for a future similar to the one Saren wanted, but wouldn't necessarily take those extremes unless it was the only option and depending on the execution of course, since I personally still don't like the way Synthesis ending was handled, though I do love those type of scenarios with the whole merging of two beings in a sense, anyway - the series could of done a lot of interesting aspects, but it would probably still be in development to this day and I don't know if the developers would of enjoyed it, nor EA - lol.

[wolfhowwl]

Rather than focusing on the minutia of how the Quarians and Geth were presented, I was more concerned that the whole chapter felt rather...contrived.

The game didn't convince me that the Quarians were attacking for a reason other than to create drama and tie up some loose ends in the setting. 

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:01 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

Just hit the space bar once Shepard starts to speak - (s)he'll only get out "You're not--" and then Sovereign appears to interrupt.

While ME1 does give less "time on stage" for viewpoints favorable to synthetics, I find it difficult to believe that people wouldn't still have contemplated the notion of whether AIs should have rights or be considered alive in the context presented. Shepard can try to negotiate with the AI on the Citadel that's (IIRC) stealing gambling money or something, and there are options in conversations with Tali that express skepticism of her POV regarding the geth. So the "machines can be broken" line still shouldn't be there as autodialogue, IMO. I'm not really sure why the writers did that - clearly they had put some thought into these issues even if they didn't yet know the directions that ME2/3 would take with EDI, the geth, and the Reapers' backstory.

[DeinonSlayer]

@David7204
I again direct your attention to the planet description for Haestrom, ME2 codex entry on Geth culture, ME1 dialogue with Tali, and Mass Effect: Revelation, all stating that the Geth kill any organic that enters their space on sight. It's true nobody knew if they were going to wage war on the wider galaxy - Revelation and ME1 corroborate this. It's also true that they are violent isolationists who have shunned all attempts made to communicate with them and killed every emissary who tried to open diplomatic relations.

The fact also remains that the entire galaxy has no reason to view the Heretics as an entity seperate from the Geth because the Geth never denounced them or took any kind of action against them until they, themselves, were threatened. The Alliance denounced Cerberus as terrorists and actively tried to shut them down. Even the Batarian Hegemony had the sense to deny responsibility for terrorist activities carried out by batarians.

I know we're not supposed to view them the same as organics (at least until they try to become organics in ME3 *gag*), but I'd think culpability for one's own actions is something that transcends species.

[CosmicGnosis]

Steelcan wrote...

OP, did you ever settle on an ending?

No. Synthesis has my preferred outcome, but I hate the magic and the forced transformation. I'm currently playing through the trilogy again, and I haven't decided which ending I'll choose.

[dreamgazer]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Just hit the space bar once Shepard starts to speak - (s)he'll only get out "You're not--" and then Sovereign appears to interrupt.

Turning Sovereign into Kanye West. I like it.

[ruggly]

dreamgazer wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Just hit the space bar once Shepard starts to speak - (s)he'll only get out "You're not--" and then Sovereign appears to interrupt.

Turning Sovereign into Kanye West. I like it.

Imma let you finish, but Reapers are the best machines of all time.

[Darks1d3]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@David7204
I again direct your attention to the planet description for Haestrom, ME2 codex entry on Geth culture, ME1 dialogue with Tali, and Mass Effect: Revelation, all stating that the Geth kill any organic that enters their space on sight. It's true nobody knew if they were going to wage war on the wider galaxy - Revelation and ME1 corroborate this. It's also true that they are violent isolationists who have shunned all attempts made to communicate with them and killed every emissary who tried to open diplomatic relations.

The fact also remains that the entire galaxy has no reason to view the Heretics as an entity seperate from the Geth because the Geth never denounced them or took any kind of action against them until they, themselves, were threatened. The Alliance denounced Cerberus as terrorists and actively tried to shut them down. Even the Batarian Hegemony had the sense to deny responsibility for terrorist activities carried out by batarians.

I know we're not supposed to view them the same as organics (at least until they try to become organics in ME3 *gag*), but I'd think culpability for one's own actions is something that transcends species.

I also believe the quest "UNC: Derelict Freighter" in ME1 also proves his first point David if you're looking for proof in game.

[David7204]

Hardly. By ME 1 the heretics are in full existence and force. Derelict freighter only shows a freighter was attacked by heretics.

[dreamgazer]

ruggly wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Just hit the space bar once Shepard starts to speak - (s)he'll only get out "You're not--" and then Sovereign appears to interrupt.

Turning Sovereign into Kanye West. I like it.

Imma let you finish, but Reapers are the best machines of all time.

Plays really well into the whole Kanye West Sovereign is totally arrogant thing.

[AresKeith]

ruggly wrote...

The line makes sense at the time. Further along, not so much.

[Darks1d3]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. By ME 1 the heretics are in
full existence and force. Derelict freighter only shows a freighter was
attacked by heretics.

*sigh*

www.youtube.com/watch

Skip ahead to about the 3 minute mark.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:15 .

[Seboist]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. By ME 1 the heretics are in full existence and force. Derelict freighter only shows a freighter was attacked by heretics.

Heretics weren't retconned into the story then.

[David7204]

I watched it. So how exactly does this refute that the freighter was captured by heretics?

[Axdinosaurx]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. By ME 1 the heretics are in full existence and force. Derelict freighter only shows a freighter was attacked by heretics.

The heretic subplot isn't introduced until you activate Legion in ME2.