1537 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: And what isn't a cage?

How is any ruling body over a populace NOT a cage?

You aren't free from the governance of a power over you - nobody is.

The question is, was the governing body over the mages, unconscionable. The answer would be yes.

But "freedom" cannot ever be a reason goal.

And why can it not?

[Medhia Nox]

@Lord Raijin: Well, given that the average Thedosian might not even have working toilets... the mages are still better off.

And... they essentially don't.

You've had the opportunity to play a Circle mage - you would be a liar to say that it is the equivalent of living "in their own toilet".

[Pasquale1234]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

They could if they wanted to be effective because as far they screwd so many times...

"but they cannot stop people from being born with magic."
But they can kill them and when they are dead there is no rebelion...
Even with very weak system most mages is captured add to this intimidation and reward most will sell mages whether out of fear or just for making their life better... oh and instead watching mages they could in 100 % focus on hunting them... 

defeating mages is possible with suitable system against mages.

And i want to tell that templars can crush mages easily as they did many times 9/10 cases templar kicks ass of mages...

There are some huge reasons why your incessant call to murder all mages would never work:

1) The Chantry would never stand for it.
2) Existing Templar organizations would never stand for it.  Even Meredith rejected the "Tranquil Solution".
3) Good luck recruiting soldiers to go around slaughtering children.
4) Good luck securing funding to support such a terrorist organization.

The only way to work your "solution" would be to form some little band of sociopaths to roam the countryside hunting mages.  You'd likely get zero support or assistance from the population, and as soon as you threatened / tortured enough of them for information they likely wouldn't have, you'd have some Arl's army on your tail.

[Veruin]

Lord Raijin wrote...

They essentinally do.

Any unbiased posters care to weigh in?  Any people that are neutral?

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

A gilded cage is still a cage.

While true, I'm getting sick of people painting the circle as if mages have to walk and sleep in their own toilet.

They essentinally do.

Not really...

The Circle was one giant size toilet so yeah it was

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

They essentinally do.

Any unbiased posters care to weigh in?  Any people that are neutral?

Ahem. He's wrong.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Because you can never be free from a body of governance... ever.

Not since the dawn of mankind - has there ever been a man who has lived a safe and happy life free from the governance of other men. Even Pharoahs and Kings, for all their power, live by rules created for them.

The goal - is to achieve an acceptable state of governance that benefits all.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

A gilded cage is still a cage.

While true, I'm getting sick of people painting the circle as if mages have to walk and sleep in their own toilet.

They essentinally do.

Not really...

The Circle was one giant size toilet so yeah it was

Not quite an applicable metaphor.

[The Elder King]

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

They essentinally do.

Any unbiased posters care to weigh in?  Any people that are neutral?

I an neutral, and I disagree with Lord Raijin's opinion.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Because you can never be free from a body of governance... ever.

Not since the dawn of mankind - has there ever been a man who has lived a safe and happy life free from the governance of other men. Even Pharoahs and Kings, for all their power, live by rules created for them.

The goal - is to achieve an acceptable state of governance that benefits all.

Perhaps freedom is the wrong word then to use, because I can't really think of a better one. Is there are word that encompasses the bolded?

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Well - "utopia" - but that is painfully naive.

But yes, that is the "goal" to strive for while remaining aware that it is likely unachievable.

Also - ammendment:  "benefits all" really should be "benefits the largest margin of law abiding citizens".

The perfect state cannot cater to the serial killer and the pacifist.  The greater the act of selfishness, the further it is away from "utopia" - and should be taken into less consideration when determining "best possible courses to benefit the greatest number of law abiding citizens." 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 janvier 2014 - 04:52 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Genocide of the Elves. That is my solution.

Whatever is wrong with the Thedas, you can be sure it was the Elves fault.

Before every battle, we test all our weapons on Elves. If a choice between attacking the Darkspawn horde and the Elves come up, always kill the Elves first. That way, if you don't have any Grey Wardens, at least you can still win the battle. Plus, killing the Elves gives you time for the Grey Wardens to arrive.

And how do you stop the Mage/Templar problem? Kill the Elves.

[Lulupab]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Rassler wrote...

In my opinion Templars can't truly win, they can win the mage-templar war but they cannot stop people from being born with magic. Lets say Templars win the war. Many mages won't submit to Templar leadership again and will take the path the Dalish have taken. There will never be enough Templars to watch every corner of Thedas. Mage rebellions will constantly rise everywhere in Thedas, we will see more and more people like Anders , everyone will get frustrated and chaos will overwhelm Thedas. People will stop joining Templar ranks as it is automatically becoming a death wish. Unless there is a magical tranquilize all thedas button to be pushed, but wait there is a cure for tranquility and a cured tranquil might become very crazy and go on a killing spree. Just a speculation but I believe its a good one.

That being said a sort of compromise is the only way but not the circles again.

They could if they wanted to be effective because as far they screwd so many times...

"but they cannot stop people from being born with magic."
But they can kill them and when they are dead there is no rebelion...
Even with very weak system most mages is captured add to this intimidation and reward most will sell mages whether out of fear or just for making their life better... oh and instead watching mages they could in 100 % focus on hunting them... 

defeating mages is possible with suitable system against mages.

And i want to tell that templars can crush mages easily as they did many times 9/10 cases templar kicks ass of mages...

Good luck entering a forest with a fully army of templars and fighting off a full army of alive charred giant trees. There are places on Thedas that there are almost no templar presence like Rivian or Anderfels. There is always the Tevinter Imperium too.

Modifié par Rassler, 07 janvier 2014 - 04:53 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Well - "utopia" - but that is painfully naive.

But yes, that is the "goal" to strive for while remaining aware that it is likely unachievable.

I agree in that there will never be and can never be a system that pleases everyone, but I think the striving towards that ideal "place" is a good thing nonetheless.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Well - "utopia" - but that is painfully naive.

But yes, that is the "goal" to strive for while remaining aware that it is likely unachievable.

I agree in that there will never be and can never be a system that pleases everyone, but I think the striving towards that ideal "place" is a good thing nonetheless.

Agreed.
@Rassler: Templars exist in Tevinter. They're just under the control of the magisters.

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And what if mage don't want this things and become then abomnation and destroy world?

What if a person decides to go on a meaningless killing spree?

We don't punish people for things they might do.

A world with mages is a dangerous world.  I would rather it not also be a grossly unjust one.

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Well - "utopia" - but that is painfully naive.

But yes, that is the "goal" to strive for while remaining aware that it is likely unachievable.

I agree in that there will never be and can never be a system that pleases everyone, but I think the striving towards that ideal "place" is a good thing nonetheless.

Agreed.
@Rassler: Templars exist in Tevinter. They're just under the control of the magisters.

Yeah I know but the way Fenris describes them I think they are not even named Templars. Tevinter had a force to control abominations long before chantry and Andraste. Don't know if Templars exist there or its simply the previous force they had. The none mage soldiers of tevinter are trained like Templars to have magical abilities and tolerances in battles against the Qunari and their mages but they are not Templars.

Modifié par Rassler, 07 janvier 2014 - 05:06 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Not since the dawn of mankind - has there ever been a man who has lived a safe and happy life free from the governance of other men. Even Pharoahs and Kings, for all their power, live by rules created for them.

Hermits.

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Well - "utopia" - but that is painfully naive.

But yes, that is the "goal" to strive for while remaining aware that it is likely unachievable.

I agree in that there will never be and can never be a system that pleases everyone, but I think the striving towards that ideal "place" is a good thing nonetheless.

Agreed.
@Rassler: Templars exist in Tevinter. They're just under the control of the magisters.

Yeah I know but the way Fenris describes them I think they are not even named Templars. Tevinter had a force to control abominations long before chantry and Andraste. Don't know if Templars exist there or its simply the previous force they had. The none mage soldiers of tevinter are trained like Templars to have magical abilities and tolerances in battles against the Qunari and their mages but they are not Templars.

Tevinter templars are just pure soldiers. Many lack the power to counter magic, Lambert being an exception.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Medhia Nox wrote...

But "freedom" cannot ever be a reason goal.

How about fairness?

Treat everyone equally.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 janvier 2014 - 05:13 .

[jaza]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Genocide of the Elves. That is my solution.

Whatever is wrong with the Thedas, you can be sure it was the Elves fault.

Before every battle, we test all our weapons on Elves. If a choice between attacking the Darkspawn horde and the Elves come up, always kill the Elves first. That way, if you don't have any Grey Wardens, at least you can still win the battle. Plus, killing the Elves gives you time for the Grey Wardens to arrive.

And how do you stop the Mage/Templar problem? Kill the Elves.

genius/10

[Hellion Rex]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

But "freedom" cannot ever be a reason goal.

How about fairness?

Treat everyone equally.

You quoted the wrong person, but I agree with you nonetheless.

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: Lambert was a templar in Tevinter. They exist.
I don't know about other non-mage forces using magical abilities. Fenris's abilities are considered very rare.

[Sylvius the Mad]

eluvianix wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

But "freedom" cannot ever be a reason goal.

How about fairness?

Treat everyone equally.

You quoted the wrong person, but I agree with you nonetheless.

Corrected.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

They could if they wanted to be effective because as far they screwd so many times...

"but they cannot stop people from being born with magic."
But they can kill them and when they are dead there is no rebelion...
Even with very weak system most mages is captured add to this intimidation and reward most will sell mages whether out of fear or just for making their life better... oh and instead watching mages they could in 100 % focus on hunting them... 

defeating mages is possible with suitable system against mages.

And i want to tell that templars can crush mages easily as they did many times 9/10 cases templar kicks ass of mages...

There are some huge reasons why your incessant call to murder all mages would never work:

1) The Chantry would never stand for it.
2) Existing Templar organizations would never stand for it.  Even Meredith rejected the "Tranquil Solution".
3) Good luck recruiting soldiers to go around slaughtering children.
4) Good luck securing funding to support such a terrorist organization.

The only way to work your "solution" would be to form some little band of sociopaths to roam the countryside hunting mages.  You'd likely get zero support or assistance from the population, and as soon as you threatened / tortured enough of them for information they likely wouldn't have, you'd have some Arl's army on your tail.

1)I agree thats why i want remove this guys their fu*** morlas are not only cruel but neither that don't give mages freedom and world safety as we are proven.But still i belive that many would burn mages if they could so it isn't so outplace.They lost control over circles even if i can' destroy them i make sure they will be nothing more than chruch and talk about their god they won't have any political power.
2)Nah many templars have mindset "kill them all" or just "i will do anything you will say" but pretty much i can see many fanatics (who are obsessed about control) and softer templars (well small group:devil:)  go against but thats why i want create new anti-magical organization independent and more ruthless but i described that on first page of this topic.
3)Well i explained that before new anti-magical faction will take childrens and train them to be merciless something like qunari do...
4)Thedas is world when you can chop elves and their childrens and no one will care even nobles in ferelden treat that like sh*** to throw in your political opponent than "oh my god thats terrible" and well that is ferelden one of cleanest countries in thedas if not most... and well that is also perfect answer on nr 3 if you take slained elven childrens...

And as i said country will have to agree unless they want mages and abomnation spreading destruction no one cares what chantry do with mages already and well most folks would tear apart mages because they are mages i don't see any problem here.This will be new law i won't do that being rogue. 

Rassler wrote...


Good luck entering a forest with a
fully army of templars and fighting off a full army of alive charred
giant trees. There are places on Thedas that there are almost no templar
presence like Rivian or Anderfels. There is always the Tevinter
Imperium too.

Hardly this is problem templars are hunting mages in wild already and are mostly focused on watching them in circles besides templar can suck mage mana and disable their spells so good luck with giant trees... Yes rivain oh i want to say that templars already crushed many mages there when they saw what is going on there... i don't see rivian or anderfels as problem we can set new law there.Only real problem is tevinter but still they can can do what they heck they want on their land but if their mage cross border will be killed... ultimately technology will beat magic and tevinter will fall  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 07 janvier 2014 - 05:22 .