1537 réponses à ce sujet

[Rotward]

KainD wrote...

Rotward wrote...
Huh. Why can't I shoot fireballs from my hands? Someone thought of that ages ago! 

The qun is incomplete, we only have access to a tiny portion of the full ideology. It will never be complete - that would be a waste of the writers time. No one actually lives it, so it's not real. 

It doesn't matter if it will ever be complete or not, it exists, it's an idea. Ideas are real, but ideas don't change the physical world however, and that's why you don't shoot fireballs. 
Still if you call Qun a religion, you might as well call democracy a religio as well. 

Ideologies, governments, religions, are not just ideas. Ideas are the only thing that become real when you think of them. Governments, ideologies, and religions become real when someone lives them.There's a difference in having an idea, and following through with it. 

The Qun is not in the same category as democracy. It declares that the government should be x-y-z, that men should be the people in positions of power, etc. It goes beyond this, however. It's far more... pervasive than democracy. It's not just a form of government. 

The Qun has no seperation of church and state, but that doesn't deny it religion status. Throughout history, most religions have either been the government, or been in control of the government. The seperation of church and state is relatively new, and incomplete. 

[KainD]

Rotward wrote...
Ideologies, governments, religions, are not just ideas. Ideas are the only thing that become real when you think of them. Governments, ideologies, and religions become real when someone lives them.There's a difference in having an idea, and following through with it. 

The Qun is not in the same category as democracy. It declares that the government should be x-y-z, that men should be the people in positions of power, etc. It goes beyond this, however. It's far more... pervasive than democracy. It's not just a form of government. 

The Qun has no seperation of church and state, but that doesn't deny it religion status. Throughout history, most religions have either been the government, or been in control of the government. The seperation of church and state is relatively new, and incomplete. 

I don't agree with the understanding that you have to follow through with an idea for it to exist. 
Also Qun has no church. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm pretty sure ideas aren't real, otherwise I have done some ungodly things to Kate Upton....

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm pretty sure ideas aren't real, otherwise I have done some ungodly things to Kate Upton....

Ewww.

[Rotward]

KainD wrote...

I don't agree with the understanding that you have to follow through with an idea for it to exist. 
Also Qun has no church. 

Have fun in your magical world where thinking things makes them real. The qun has a book they're willing to start a war over. Not all religions have a church. 

[Veruin]

Rotward wrote...
Have fun in your magical world where thinking things makes them real. The qun has a book they're willing to start a war over. Not all religions have a church. 

Have fun in your magical world where you think you're right. <_<

[animedreamer]

Better methods of identifying magic and the user of said magic is the first step. 

Develope a method to recreate events magicially to be viewed by a head investigator.

Baring the above develop a truth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you. As all mages wishing to be free of the Tower, to submit their blood to a phylectrry. Then the furst idea is in play. then simply purue the suspected mage until you can catch them to get the truth, then decide punishment you could give.

All mages are allowed to live outside the Towers and supervise themselves.

Modifié par animedreamer, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:07 .

[Veruin]

animedreamer wrote...
Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you.

That doesn't exist in Dragon Age and there is nothing that indicates that a "truth serum" is possible.

[Rotward]

animedreamer wrote...

Better methods of identifying magic and the user of said magic is the first step. 

Develope a method to recreate events magicially to be viewed by a head investigator.

Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you. As all mages wishing to be free of the Tower, to submit their blood to a phylectrry. Then the furst idea is in play. then simply purue the suspected mage until you can catch them to get the truth, then decide punishment you could give.

All mages are allowed to live outside the Towers and supervise themselves.

Why are you worried about that, and not identifying who shot an arrow, or who held the murder weapon. 

[animedreamer]

Rotward wrote...

animedreamer wrote...

Better methods of identifying magic and the user of said magic is the first step. 

Develope a method to recreate events magicially to be viewed by a head investigator.

Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you. As all mages wishing to be free of the Tower, to submit their blood to a phylectrry. Then the furst idea is in play. then simply purue the suspected mage until you can catch them to get the truth, then decide punishment you could give.

All mages are allowed to live outside the Towers and supervise themselves.

Why are you worried about that, and not identifying who shot an arrow, or who held the murder weapon. 

Because as Anders proved, Mages can kill way more people in one single moment than any arrow of sword.

[Rotward]

animedreamer wrote...

Because as Anders proved, Mages can kill way more people in one single moment than any arrow of sword.

So? Everyone knew anders did it. Plus, eventually, someone's going to come up with bombs. Then blowing up buildings won't be anders exclusive! 

Veruin wrote...
Have fun in your magical world where you think you're right. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

If thinking something makes it real, than the church of the flying spaghetti monster is as real as the qun. Which brings us back to my original question: which religion is "it"? 

Modifié par Rotward, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:11 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

animedreamer wrote...
Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you.

That doesn't exist in Dragon Age and there is nothing that indicates that a "truth serum" is possible.

Something like that would probably require blood magic. 

[Rotward]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

animedreamer wrote...
Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you.

That doesn't exist in Dragon Age and there is nothing that indicates that a "truth serum" is possible.

Something like that would probably require blood magic. 

Considering templars use blood magic to keep track of every circle mage and apprentice, I wouldn't put it past them.

[Hellion Rex]

Rotward wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

animedreamer wrote...
Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you.

That doesn't exist in Dragon Age and there is nothing that indicates that a "truth serum" is possible.

Something like that would probably require blood magic. 

Considering templars use blood magic to keep track of every circle mage and apprentice, I wouldn't put it past them.

Templars still cannot do stereotypical blood magic, and would require a Mage to make use of compulsion/truth telling magics. 

[animedreamer]

eluvianix wrote...

Rotward wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

animedreamer wrote...
Baring the above develop a turth stone in which no lies can be told while it's within a certain amount of range of you.

That doesn't exist in Dragon Age and there is nothing that indicates that a "truth serum" is possible.

Something like that would probably require blood magic. 

Considering templars use blood magic to keep track of every circle mage and apprentice, I wouldn't put it past them.

Templars still cannot do stereotypical blood magic, and would require a Mage to make use of compulsion/truth telling magics. 

If the Entropy school of magic can put people to sleep, or knock them out, why can't it be used to force people to tell the truth?

[Hellion Rex]

animedreamer wrote...

If the Entropy school of magic can put people to sleep, or knock them out, why can't it be used to force people to tell the truth?

Good point. I guarantee you that at least Tevinter has figured out such a method, although any Circle mages that exhibited that talent would probably be labelled as maleficar and axed. 

[Rotward]

eluvianix wrote...
Templars still cannot do stereotypical blood magic, and would require a Mage to make use of compulsion/truth telling magics. 

They take a vial of blood, and magically know where a mage is just by having it. That sounds like blood magic to me. 

[Hellion Rex]

Rotward wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Templars still cannot do stereotypical blood magic, and would require a Mage to make use of compulsion/truth telling magics. 

They take a vial of blood, and magically know where a mage is just by having it. That sounds like blood magic to me. 

Until I start seeing Templars slit their wrists and boil blood, I still say they cannot due stereotypical blood magic. 

[Veruin]

Rotward wrote...
 They take a vial of blood, and magically know where a mage is just by having it. That sounds like blood magic to me. 

Going by how Gascard uses it in DA2, I'd guess the Templars don't do the magic, but merely have one of the senior circle mages do it and then just tell them.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Rotward wrote...
 They take a vial of blood, and magically know where a mage is just by having it. That sounds like blood magic to me. 

Going by how Gascard uses it in DA2, I'd guess the Templars don't do the magic, but merely have one of the senior circle mages do it and then just tell them.

Templars can track mages similarly. See Asunder. 

[Magdalena11]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Rotward wrote...
 They take a vial of blood, and magically know where a mage is just by having it. That sounds like blood magic to me. 

Going by how Gascard uses it in DA2, I'd guess the Templars don't do the magic, but merely have one of the senior circle mages do it and then just tell them.

Templars can track mages similarly. See Asunder. 

And Redemption.  

Templars in the Ferelden circle and the white spire need the help of a mage to access the phyllactery chamber, but once the phyllactery is obtained the templar is able to use the mana obtained from regular lyrium consumption to track a mage.  It's blood magic, templar style.

[MrMrPendragon]

Well since "no solution" isn't a valid answer (and I believe there isn't a practical solution for this), the next best thing to me is just give everyone magic, by having everyone draw power from the fade or something.

The way I see it, even if the mages win, the prejudice will still be present. A lot of people will still hate mages and will never accept them into society, just because of how long this Circle system has existed. It's kind of like the elves thing. Sure slavery isn't legal anymore in many places, but elves (who make up majority of the slave population) are still second-class citizens.

Now if the templars win, society will be back to that stable and peaceful self, but at the cost of denying mages their freedom and rights. Which is wrong.

Both sides of the war are each fighting for some impossible cause.

The templars want to keep the mages in line - and this system will not stop - ever, since mages will always be born in Thedas, therefore there will always be oppression towards the mages. 

This represents continuous absolute order by sacrificing the rights and freedoms of a select group of people

While the mages are fighting for equality to live in a world that is not ready to tolerate magic playing a major role in society - roles that go beyond simply having mages as healers, or merchants, or chemists, etc.

This represents change to the status quo. Not just political change (giving mages authority, rights, etc.), but also societal change (mages as citizens and members of the society). This isn't just something you can accomplish through war.  This kind of change happens over time. 

So overall, I have no idea how Bioware is going to end this war other than do a "common enemy shows up, so mages and templars have to work together" kind of scenario, which is a bit cliche and overused. I don't know, maybe they're cooking up something good.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 09 janvier 2014 - 09:21 .

[BlueMagitek]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

...by sacrificing the rights and freedoms of a select group of people

I'm sorry, but have you looked at the setting?  That occurs to the following : Peasants, Alienage members, Casteless, Grey Wardens, Slaves.

This isn't really anything special.

And the idea of giving everyone magic, just right out of the bat, just promises a lot of trouble as 99% of the population will be untrained, making them vulnerable to a host of horrors - the least of which being abominations. 

Solution?  Mage -> Circle + increased oversight + freedoms increased to Ferelden Circle levels

[MrMrPendragon]

BlueMagitek wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

...by sacrificing the rights and freedoms of a select group of people

I'm sorry, but have you looked at the setting?  That occurs to the following : Peasants, Alienage members, Casteless, Grey Wardens, Slaves.

This isn't really anything special.

And the idea of giving everyone magic, just right out of the bat, just promises a lot of trouble as 99% of the population will be untrained, making them vulnerable to a host of horrors - the least of which being abominations. 

Solution?  Mage -> Circle + increased oversight + freedoms increased to Ferelden Circle levels

What I meant is that slaves, peasants,  and alienages are part of the status quo along with the Circle. I'm sure the problems of slavery and elves owning land will be addressed in the future.

But right now, the status quo is slowly being destroyed because one aspect of the society that everyone has gotten used to (The Circle) is falling apart.

And now, the Templars are fighting against that. The whole war is basically Change vs No change. But I say that change isn't a one time blow - it happens gradually overtime.

And I wasn't really serious about the whole "give magic to everyone thing". I'm more inclined to "there is no solution" but since that's not allowed....