1537 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

What I meant is that slaves, peasants,  and alienages are part of the status quo along with the Circle. I'm sure the problems of slavery and elves owning land will be addressed in the future.

But right now, the status quo is slowly being destroyed because one aspect of the society that everyone has gotten used to (The Circle) is falling apart.

And I wasn't really serious about the whole "give magic to everyone thing". I'm more inclined to "there is no solution" but since that's not allowed....

I highly doubt it.  Bioware games aren't about social change.  And frankly, the mages being akin to being Wild Mage Sorcerors that are monitored for the good of all is a bit more unique than a number of settings, so changing that is kind of an "eh" for me.  I mean, sure, it can happen, but going from what it is now to what you envision, even over time, isn't very pleasing.

The status quo is broken because of exterior influence maligning both sides. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...

For this to make any sense, I'm going to need a definition of what you mean by fairness.[/quote]
Fair would mean an even playing field.
For instance in the world of race horses, if a horse has too much of an advantage you place extra weight in its saddle, so that the other horses have a chance to win.

An even playing field is fair.

An equal playing field, is not necessarily fair.[/quote]
So if I'm better at something, I have to be given a disadvantage to counter it?

No.  That would be terrible.

And since when does horse racing do that?  Auto-racing doesn't do that.  Each team is given rules within which they must build their car.  If one team finds a unique way to exploit those rules, that team has a massive advantage and runs away with the championship.

This is true in many sports.  When the Canadian Olympic speedskating team invented clap-skates, they didn't get penalised for doing it - they just won a lot, and then other teams copied them.

An even playing field is one in which all participants are governed by the same rules.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Horse racing has been doing that since forever... The added handicap is mostly used to even the odds, so that more money will be gambled, but it makes for a fair race.

And in the auto-racing example you present is a perfect example of how equal treatment is NOT always fair, since especially in auto-racing the team with the most resources usually wins, simply because they have the better vehicle. It's equal, some would even say exciting, but it isn't very fair to the smaller teams.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Horse racing has been doing that since forever... The added handicap is mostly used to even the odds, so that more money will be gambled, but it makes for a fair race.

No, it makes for an even race.  That extra weight isn't fair at all to the faster horse.

Horses do carry ballast to even out the weight of the jockeys, however.  Again, because carrying a heavy jockey isn't fair to the horse, so the horses can compete on a level playing field by each horse being asked to carry the same amount of total weight.

And in the auto-racing example you present is a perfect example of how equal treatment is NOT always fair, since especially in auto-racing the team with the most resources usually wins, simply because they have the better vehicle. It's equal, some would even say exciting, but it isn't very fair to the smaller teams.

It's typically the team with the cleverest designers.  Not always the most resources.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So it makes for an equal race, which you just last page said was ALWAYS fair, and now it isn't fair? You are horribly inconsistent.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

"Kill 'em all!  Let the gods sort 'em out!"

- classic Neverwinter Nights dwarf voiceset

But no, I'd free all mages, and only have the templars around for dealing with evil mages.  Like a special type of police.

[DPSSOC]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

"Kill 'em all!  Let the gods sort 'em out!"

- classic Neverwinter Nights dwarf voiceset

But no, I'd free all mages, and only have the templars around for dealing with evil mages.  Like a special type of police.

And what do you do about mages who level villages because they were just stupid?  This is something I often see getting overlooked in discussing the Mage/Templar issue is that mages do not have to be bad people to do large amounts of damage.  All a mage has to do is screw up, and cities can burn.  Warden's Keep didn't happen because Avernus was an "evil mage" it happened because he thought he was more capable than he actually was.  Shale didn't crush Wilhelm because he was "evil" but because he was meddling with something he didn't fully understand and screwed up.  Connor wasn't looking to demons for wealth or power but to save his sick father, again not evil, just stupid.  All of these instances avoided becoming widespread disasters by the slimmest of margins.

So to anyone advocating mage freedom I ask you, what's your plan for when things just go wrong?  When mages push themselves too far, or miscalculate in risky experiments, or just take desperate actions to save the people they care about, what is your plan?  Do you expect people to just accept it, right them off as just some unfortunate but unavoidable happenstance?  Why would they agree to this?

[Inprea]

DPSSOC wrote...
And what do you do about mages who level villages because they were just stupid?  This is something I often see getting overlooked in discussing the Mage/Templar issue is that mages do not have to be bad people to do large amounts of damage.  All a mage has to do is screw up, and cities can burn.  Warden's Keep didn't happen because Avernus was an "evil mage" it happened because he thought he was more capable than he actually was.  Shale didn't crush Wilhelm because he was "evil" but because he was meddling with something he didn't fully understand and screwed up.  Connor wasn't looking to demons for wealth or power but to save his sick father, again not evil, just stupid.  All of these instances avoided becoming widespread disasters by the slimmest of margins.

So to anyone advocating mage freedom I ask you, what's your plan for when things just go wrong?  When mages push themselves too far, or miscalculate in risky experiments, or just take desperate actions to save the people they care about, what is your plan?  Do you expect people to just accept it, right them off as just some unfortunate but unavoidable happenstance?  Why would they agree to this?

Depends on the solution they're talking about. With the one I proposed they're several things.

1. In the event the local government decided they didn't want chantry's involvment then they would be the ones that chose to accept the risk. The Rivani for example refuse to give up their seers despite the risk they may pose. The dalish choose to keep their keepers. To them the benefits are worth the risks.

2. For those regions that resolved they would keep the circle system and the mages that chose to remain as part of the circle system then I would say the templars weren't doing their job very well.

3. For the isolationist mage city. Well that's meant to be mostly mages anyway. Any mundane that chooses to live there or go there accept the risk of living around a bunch of mages. As for the mages themselves. They're the ones that chose to live apart from the templars and mundanes for the most part so they're responsible for themselves. That said in a city made up of mostly mages I believe most could handle such an incident.

Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

[Dwh221]

Kill everyone absolutely everyone. Then when the next blight roles around the dark spawn will die from boredom because all the people they are supposed to be fighting are DEAD.

[MrMrPendragon]

Dwh221 wrote...

Kill everyone absolutely everyone. Then when the next blight roles around the dark spawn will die from boredom because all the people they are supposed to be fighting are DEAD.

Lol. Reapers

(Except you take everyone)

[Demx]

Make every templar and mage hug it out in a room that nullifies magic and and anti-magic wearing nothing but their underwear...What? Don't give me that look.

[DPSSOC]

Inprea wrote...
Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

Were I the one designing the system I'd have the two independent bodies nominate investigators.  1 Mage and 1 Templar with the full authourity of the First Enchanter and the Knight Commander working in tandem or individually (as they prefer) once they are satisfied (and both must be satisfied) they've gotten all they can they present their findings, evidence, and conclusions to the First Enchanter and Knight Commander.  Similar rules would apply for the investigators as apply to juries; known associates, relatives, anyone with a direct link to either the victim or the accused are exempt from nomination.

I agree with many Mage supporters that a big problem with the Circle is that the Templars have all the power and authourity, if a Mage has been wronged by a Templar they have nowhere to go for justice but other Templars.  This system is flawed if for no other reason than the mages have no reason to trust it.  However Mages have shown, multiple times, that they can't be trusted to police themselves, so we can't just fix things by flipping it.  A unified investigative and ruling system ensures that each party, victim and accused, has an advocate, somebody who will likely see things from their perspective.

Furthermore no witnesses may be questioned, nor the victim or accused, without the other investigator present.  Violation would result in the investigator being removed from the case and punished accordingly.

Alternatively, mind control the truth out of them.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 10 janvier 2014 - 03:49 .

[MrMrPendragon]

Inprea wrote...
Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

Wow, that's horrible. If they wanted to really show the reality of the Circle system and how it abuses mages, they should add subjects like this. But I guess rape is really something that bothers me, even if it's just in video game.

If that happened in Inquisition, I'd kill every last templar.

Anyway. I'm not really going to answer your question. I just wanted to point out that topics like this should be used to emphasize the harsh reality of the Circle.

[Rotward]

DPSSOC wrote...
And what do you do about mages who level villages because they were just stupid?  This is something I often see getting overlooked in discussing the Mage/Templar issue is that mages do not have to be bad people to do large amounts of damage.  All a mage has to do is screw up, and cities can burn.  Warden's Keep didn't happen because Avernus was an "evil mage" it happened because he thought he was more capable than he actually was.  Shale didn't crush Wilhelm because he was "evil" but because he was meddling with something he didn't fully understand and screwed up.  Connor wasn't looking to demons for wealth or power but to save his sick father, again not evil, just stupid.  All of these instances avoided becoming widespread disasters by the slimmest of margins.

So to anyone advocating mage freedom I ask you, what's your plan for when things just go wrong?  When mages push themselves too far, or miscalculate in risky experiments, or just take desperate actions to save the people they care about, what is your plan?  Do you expect people to just accept it, right them off as just some unfortunate but unavoidable happenstance?  Why would they agree to this?

What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case. 

As far as high stress situations where there's no option, well, tough **** and best of luck. There's always a chance that a poorly understood weapon, be it magic or technology, will backfire. If your other option is death at the hands of your enemy, though, what have you got to lose? 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Rotward wrote...
 What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case. 

As far as high stress situations where there's no option, well, tough **** and best of luck. There's always a chance that a poorly understood weapon, be it magic or technology, will backfire. If your other option is death at the hands of your enemy, though, what have you got to lose? 

Technology can and is controlled especially the more destructive when magic is unpredictable and can't be contained as games proved... besides technology have dangers but also have great benefit (technology is practically everywhere and is used by us every day) when magic as far only caused damage to thedas (magic is worth nothing only trouble if we count pros and cons). And please don't compare professor to walking unstable nuclear bomb that can explode in any second...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 janvier 2014 - 05:32 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Rotward wrote...
 What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case. 

As far as high stress situations where there's no option, well, tough **** and best of luck. There's always a chance that a poorly understood weapon, be it magic or technology, will backfire. If your other option is death at the hands of your enemy, though, what have you got to lose? 

Technology is technology can and is controlled especially the more destructive when magic is unpredictable and can't be contained as games proved... besides technology have dangers but also have great benefit (technology is practically everywhere and is used by us every day) when magic as far only caused damage to thedas (magic is worth nothing only trouble if we count pros and cons). And please don't compare professor to walking unstable nuclear bomb that can explode in any second...

You're forgetting all the lives that have been saved by healing magic, Kommandor.
Also I've noticed this but never had a chance to ask: You compare mages to nuclear bombs and say they are unstoppable in some threads, yet in others say how people can easily stop them. Which is it? If mages had the power of a nuclear weapon, there is no way anyone in Thedas would stop them. The Circle system would definitely have failed pretty much once the first Templars started abusing mages.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 10 janvier 2014 - 05:35 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Rotward wrote...
 What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case. 

As far as high stress situations where there's no option, well, tough **** and best of luck. There's always a chance that a poorly understood weapon, be it magic or technology, will backfire. If your other option is death at the hands of your enemy, though, what have you got to lose? 

Technology is technology can and is controlled especially the more destructive when magic is unpredictable and can't be contained as games proved... besides technology have dangers but also have great benefit (technology is practically everywhere and is used by us every day) when magic as far only caused damage to thedas (magic is worth nothing only trouble if we count pros and cons). And please don't compare professor to walking unstable nuclear bomb that can explode in any second...

You're forgetting all the lives that have been saved by healing magic, Kommandor.
Also I've noticed this but never had a chance to ask: You compare mages to nuclear bombs and say they are unstoppable in some threads, yet in others say how people can easily stop them. Which is it? If mages had the power of a nuclear weapon, there is no way anyone in Thedas would stop them. The Circle system would definitely have failed pretty much once the first Templars started abusing mages.

Normal mage is very weak and useless but after mage is possessed well it becomes extremely powerful how much (depends on the type demon) but even cassandra who cuts blood mages and army of golems and ogres  can even scratch pride demon.Healing magic hah? only slows development of medicine and rly it is very restrictive magic and not powerful like in other setting where it can heal fatal injuries pretty much if you want compare what mages destroyed to what mages created (helped) it is. And circles failed many rly many times just count abomnations in every da product and now we have rebelion in what mages started destroying world again...   

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You're forgetting all the lives that have been saved by healing magic, Kommandor.
Also I've noticed this but never had a chance to ask: You compare mages to nuclear bombs and say they are unstoppable in some threads, yet in others say how people can easily stop them. Which is it? If mages had the power of a nuclear weapon, there is no way anyone in Thedas would stop them. The Circle system would definitely have failed pretty much once the first Templars started abusing mages.

Normal mage is very weak and useless but after mage is possessed well it becomes extremely powerful how much (depends on the type demon) but even cassandra who cuts blood mages and army of golems and ogres  can even scratch pride demon.Healing magic hah? only slows development of medicine and rly it is very restrictive magic and not powerful like in other setting where it can heal fatal injuries pretty much if you want compare what mages destroyed to what mages created (helped) it is. And circles failed many rly many times just count abomnations in every da product and now we have rebelion in what mages started destroying world again...   

But you say EVERY mage is like a walking nuclear bomb, but now it is only those who are possessed? So you're judging people on what might happen? In that case, arrest everyone since anyone might become a serial killer.

Magic in and of itself does not impede technological or medicinal advancement. Look at the Qunari. Their mages are literally tools and yet they are advancing in all other fields of science. And my point remains that healing magic has saved lives, so your "magic has only ever harmed Thedas" line is completely innaccurate.

If we are going to compare how many abominations there are to how many nonmage killers there are in the games, then mages are among the most peaceful of the groups since I've fought many more sword-weilding bandits than I have fought apostates.

And do you have proof the Mage-Templar war is what caused the Veil Tear? No. That's the point of the game is to discover what's causing it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You're forgetting all the lives that have been saved by healing magic, Kommandor.
Also I've noticed this but never had a chance to ask: You compare mages to nuclear bombs and say they are unstoppable in some threads, yet in others say how people can easily stop them. Which is it? If mages had the power of a nuclear weapon, there is no way anyone in Thedas would stop them. The Circle system would definitely have failed pretty much once the first Templars started abusing mages.

Normal mage is very weak and useless but after mage is possessed well it becomes extremely powerful how much (depends on the type demon) but even cassandra who cuts blood mages and army of golems and ogres  can even scratch pride demon.Healing magic hah? only slows development of medicine and rly it is very restrictive magic and not powerful like in other setting where it can heal fatal injuries pretty much if you want compare what mages destroyed to what mages created (helped) it is. And circles failed many rly many times just count abomnations in every da product and now we have rebelion in what mages started destroying world again...   

But you say EVERY mage is like a walking nuclear bomb, but now it is only those who are possessed? So you're judging people on what might happen? In that case, arrest everyone since anyone might become a serial killer.

Magic in and of itself does not impede technological or medicinal advancement. Look at the Qunari. Their mages are literally tools and yet they are advancing in all other fields of science. And my point remains that healing magic has saved lives, so your "magic has only ever harmed Thedas" line is completely innaccurate.

If we are going to compare how many abominations there are to how many nonmage killers there are in the games, then mages are among the most peaceful of the groups since I've fought many more sword-weilding bandits than I have fought apostates.

And do you have proof the Mage-Templar war is what caused the Veil Tear? No. That's the point of the game is to discover what's causing it.

But every mage can be possessed so every mage i walking nuclear bomb that can explode.How much damage can do serial killer on local scale (mostly on individual threat level) at best how damage can do mage even if not possessed magic can be badly in effects and threat can vary from national to world scale danger... 

As well peoples just don't wake up and decide i will be serial killer now it need some mental problems...
when mage can just turn into abomnation when he fall asleep...

Another matter is frequency of mages that become abomnations and peoples who become serial killers when mages just love doing that most peoples aren't serial killers it is just barely visible small percentage of all peoples...

Yes im looking at qunari and i see qunari mage who escaped and almost summoned army of demons to destroy world.

And well how many lives mages saved very small numbers when compared to lives that they destroyed that it is hardly revelant if mutant can heal your bruise and can blow entire world  in any moment you get rid of him. 

Sorry but bandit can't cause end of the world and as i said bandit is threat on individual level if in group on local level when mage is danger for entire world.

Besides only mage can open veil if devs won't use some kind ass pull it can be only mage or abomnation (which is possesed mage) so point stands...

"So you're judging people on what might happen?" 
I can assure you that any goverment or society would do that same if walking nuclear bomb was around besides peoples judge other peoples by having different preferences or skin color why i can't judge something that is threat for entire world?

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 janvier 2014 - 06:18 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
But every mage can be possessed so every mage i walking nuclear bomb that can explode.How much damage can do serial killer on local scale (mostly on individual threat level) at best how damage can do mage even if not possessed magic can be badly in effects and threat can vary from national to world scale danger... 

As well peoples just don't wake up and decide i will be serial killer now it need some mental problems...
when mage can just turn into abomnation when he fall asleep...

Another matter is frequency of mages that become abomnations and peoples who become serial killers when mages just love doing that most peoples aren't serial killers it is just barely visible small percentage of all peoples...

Yes im looking at qunari and i see qunari mage who escaped and almost summoned army of demons to destroy world.

And well how many lives mages saved very small noumbers when compared to lives that they destroyed that it is hardly revelant if mutant can heal your bruise and can blow entire world  in any moment you get rid of him. 

Sorry but bandit can't cause end of the world and as i said bandit is threat on individual level if in group on local level when mage is danger for entire world.

Besides only mage can open veil if devs won't use some kind ass pull it can be only mage or abomnation (which is possesed mage) so point stands...

"So you're judging people on what might happen?" 
I can assure you that any goverment or society would do that same if walking nuclear bomb was around besides peoples judge other peoples by having different preferences or skin color why i can't judge something that is threat for entire world?

Again, comparing them to nuclear bombs is rediculous. Even when an army's worth was possessed they couldn't even take a Circle, or at best hold one for a little while. How is that equivalent to being able to wipe out a city in an instant. The only exception to the rules are the Tevinter Magisters who wereused by Dumat to gain access to the Golden City, but that was only a few. There have been as many, if not more, nonmages in Thedasian history to accumulate that level of destruction.

The problem with your whole argument is you are assuming that every mage is out to be the Antichrist and destroy the world when simply put there is no evidence of that. And those that do are stopped by a squad of nonmage people. A single one can't bring the end of the world like you think. Again, the only ones who came close were the leaders of an empire being led by an Old God. And apparently the desire to become a killer is common among nonmagessince we fight literally hundreds of people who want to kill other people, so your argument that mages become abominations more than people become killers is disproven.

The Veil thins when there is a lot of death around the area, so if we are to blame anyone for the Veil Tear we have to blame everyone who is fighting. That's mages, templars, Orlais, Tevinter, the Qunari, the Dwarves, the Dalish, and many more that we don't even know about yet. Will one of the big baddies be a mage? Probably. Will one of the big baddies not be a mage? Just as likely. Unless you have the script of Inquisition and can prove me wrong in that assumption.

I will admit that mages swhould have some way of registering so people know they have magic powers, but then those who own blades or bows should be under just as much scrutiny since they pose just as much of a threat as those who weild spells. Killing or imprisoning someone for things they have no control over has only ever been condoned by those who nowadays we see as the worst people in human history, and while not the same as Earth, Thedas should at least follow the same morals.

Don't bother replying. You answered my question and I know from reading other threads that there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 10 janvier 2014 - 06:36 .

[AutumnWitch]

My solution.

Let the Human Mages & City Elf Mages be completely free with some very, very specific rules.

1. No second chances...if you are caught doing any blood magic automatic death sentence.

2. Special "day schools" will be established to help educate and train Mage children. All Mage children are required by law to attend but will be free to live with family outside of typical training/schooling.

3. Once a Mage reaches 16 they must pass the harrowing or remain in non-Chantry custody until they do. Once they pass their harrowing, they will be given a special licence to practice magic as a living or hobby. ANY Mages past their Harrowing who do not possess a licence goes to prison automatically until they can be cleared of being a blood Mage and have the proper training.

4. All Human Mages & City Elf Mages must agree to serve their kingdom in times of need. A registrar shall be kept of all Human Mages & City Elf Mages from birth to death that can be used as a "selective service" source in times of war or other need. If they are called to duty they will be as fairly "compensated" as their non-Mage peers.

5. The Chantry AND the government will establish an organization that will work to covertly and overtly infiltrate society to keep a look out for Mages who break the rules. This organization will employ other Mages and non-Mages to perform this service. (To enforce rules non-violent methods will be preferred and violence will ONLY be used in dire or life-threatening situations.)

6. A non-Chantry entity will be responsible for any judicial issues concerning Mages.

7. Any person caught "abusing" Mages in any way or form will be dealt an extremely severe penalty up to and including death.

8. ANY Mage caught breaking rules shall have a fair trial by jury of Mages and non-Mages.

9. ALL non-City Mage (Dalish) Elves are prohibited to come within a pre-determined distant of any Human or City-Elf village/town/city/settlement. Any caught purposely breaking this rule (without proper permission) will be subject to immediate death.

10. Any Mage born in the wilds or situations that reasonably preclude them from any of the above situations shall be given fair time and reasonable support to come in line with the above rules & regulations once they are within an area that requires them to do so.

11. The Chantry and government shall strive to educate the public at large in dealing with Mages and do their best to fairly infiltrate Mages into society at large.

Yes, I know a lot of work, but anything worth having usually is.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
But every mage can be possessed so every mage i walking nuclear bomb that can explode.How much damage can do serial killer on local scale (mostly on individual threat level) at best how damage can do mage even if not possessed magic can be badly in effects and threat can vary from national to world scale danger... 

As well peoples just don't wake up and decide i will be serial killer now it need some mental problems...
when mage can just turn into abomnation when he fall asleep...

Another matter is frequency of mages that become abomnations and peoples who become serial killers when mages just love doing that most peoples aren't serial killers it is just barely visible small percentage of all peoples...

Yes im looking at qunari and i see qunari mage who escaped and almost summoned army of demons to destroy world.

And well how many lives mages saved very small noumbers when compared to lives that they destroyed that it is hardly revelant if mutant can heal your bruise and can blow entire world  in any moment you get rid of him. 

Sorry but bandit can't cause end of the world and as i said bandit is threat on individual level if in group on local level when mage is danger for entire world.

Besides only mage can open veil if devs won't use some kind ass pull it can be only mage or abomnation (which is possesed mage) so point stands...

"So you're judging people on what might happen?" 
I can assure you that any goverment or society would do that same if walking nuclear bomb was around besides peoples judge other peoples by having different preferences or skin color why i can't judge something that is threat for entire world?

Again, comparing them to nuclear bombs is rediculous. Even when an army's worth was possessed they couldn't even take a Circle, or at best hold one for a little while. How is that equivalent to being able to wipe out a city in an instant. The only exception to the rules are the Tevinter Magisters who wereused by Dumat to gain access to the Golden City, but that was only a few. There have been as many, if not more, nonmages in Thedasian history to accumulate that level of destruction.

The problem with your whole argument is you are assuming that every mage is out to be the Antichrist and destroy the world when simply put there is no evidence of that. And those that do are stopped by a squad of nonmage people. A single one can't bring the end of the world like you think. Again, the only ones who came close were the leaders of an empire being led by an Old God. And apparently the desire to become a killer is common among nonmagessince we fight literally hundreds of people who want to kill other people, so your argument that mages become abominations more than people become killers is disproven.

The Veil thins when there is a lot of death around the area, so if we are to blame anyone for the Veil Tear we have to blame everyone who is fighting. That's mages, templars, Orlais, Tevinter, the Qunari, the Dwarves, the Dalish, and many more that we don't even know about yet. Will one of the big baddies be a mage? Probably. Will one of the big baddies not be a mage? Just as likely. Unless you have the script of Inquisition and can prove me wrong in that assumption.

I will admit that mages swhould have some way of registering so people know they have magic powers, but then those who own blades or bows should be under just as much scrutiny since they pose just as much of a threat as those who weild spells. Killing or imprisoning someone for things they have no control over has only ever been condoned by those who nowadays we see as the worst people in human history, and while not the same as Earth, Thedas should at least follow the same morals.

Don't bother replying. You answered my question and I know from reading other threads that there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.

1 pride demon was sufficient enough to kill tower filled with mages (and he wasn't even strongest kind of pride demons) and templars (guys who should be better in fighting mages and demons) citry would fell quickly if even cassandra who kicked everyone in 1 second wasn't capable even harming pride demon.

Im not asuming that evry mage is antichrist just most ist from most di*** mages to nicest everyone of them is bomb let se i don't have evidence ferelden circle , kirkwall circle , blights , baroness , thedas chaos (current state) and many other incidents like werewolves.Of course we have exceptions like the warden , hawke (well he was still an idiot) , and probably mage inquisitor.But still most mages are unstable and uknown and even one mage represents danger on huge scale.

Now you want to tell me that thousand years of wars (this is thedas it was a lot of that) didn't tear veil even in one place and now few years of war destroyed veil nah no chance it has to be mage or demon only they are
capable torn or weaken veil in very short time.So what if evil overlord non mage is behind it but still requires having mage on your side without mage he wouldn't do that so evil overlord have to please with harassment of pesants not destruction of the world...

"but then those who own blades or bows should be under just as much
scrutiny since they pose just as much of a threat as those who weild
spells." wha? show me warrior or archer who did what connor (a damn child) did... that is problem if you see mages as dangerous as archer there is no wonder that you are blinded...

"Killing or imprisoning someone for things they have no control over has
only ever been condoned by those who nowadays we see as the worst people
in human history, and while not the same as Earth, Thedas should at
least follow the same morals."

They still imprison you if you are nuts or have instincts that you can't control in our world and if you don't know a lot unplesant things was done (and they weren't recorded in history books) so that you could live in your society as it is now.Morality doesn't matter in our world not in thedas it is just to make you look prettier and often morality is thrown aside when it comes about doing what is convenient and more profitable so well... 

hell just look what society does "you have to right to be free" oh you did something we don't like you are going to prision or mental hospital well don't want take medicines to bad because you have to by the way "FREEEEEDOOM!"

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 janvier 2014 - 07:17 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Autumn: Most are fine, except I would change the one involving Keepers. They shouldn't get the death penalty for being with their people who near a city. Kept out of the city sure, but not "Oh, you're within a mile of our town, you must die."

[Fredward]

I'mma post this here and hopefully remember this thread next time someone asks. ~ahem~

1. The dissolution of the templar order, it's done. Completely. In its stead mages who have proven reliable will be responsible for the finding of both runaways and bringing new mages into the Circle.

2. The circle gets total autonomy from the Chantry, no Chantry oversight whatsoever. It'll work like a boarding school where all budding mages get sent. They're kept there until somewhere between 18 and 21, YMMV.

3. They're allowed visitors but they aren't allowed to leave.

4. They still have to go through the Harrowing to pass.

5. Phylacteries will be kept.

6. Tranquility will be an option for those who want it after some psychological evals to make sure the mage is making the choice for the right reasons.

7. If a mage doesn't want to go through his/her Harrowing but isn't deemed mentally unstable enough to warrant summary execution or Tranquility they're allowed to stay within the Circle indefinitely.

8. Once a mage has passed s/he needs to register at the local branch of the Circle Administration wherever s/he decides to settle. Bad sentence is bad. Anyway they have to put down their residence and where they work. Stuff like that.

9. Yearly psych evals for every free mage. The Circle Administration is allowed to monitor any mages deemed a threat.

10. They're also allowed, in extreme cases, to execute any mage considered an eminent threat. Otherwise the mage is arrested and sent back to the Circle for X amount of time or Tranquilization.