1537 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
1 pride demon was sufficient enough to kill tower filled with mages (and he wasn't even strongest kind of pride demons) and templars (guys who should be better in fighting mages and demons) citry would fell quickly if even cassandra who kicked everyone in 1 second wasn't capable even harming pride demon.

Im not asuming that evry mage is antichrist just most ist from most di*** mages to nicest everyone of them is bomb let se i don't have evidence ferelden circle , kirkwall circle , blights , baroness , thedas chaos (current state) and many other incidents like werewolves.Of course we have exceptions like the warden , hawke (well he was still an idiot) , and probably mage inquisitor.But still most mages are unstable and uknown and even one mage represents danger on huge scale.

Now you want to tell me that thousand years of wars (this is thedas it was a lot of that) didn't tear veil even in one place and now few years of war destroyed veil nah no chance it has to be mage or demon only they are
capable torn or weaken veil in very short time.So what if evil overlord non mage is behind it but still requires having mage on your side without mage he wouldn't do that so evil overlord have to please with harassment of pesants not destruction of the world...

"but then those who own blades or bows should be under just as much
scrutiny since they pose just as much of a threat as those who weild
spells." wha? show me warrior or archer who did what connor (a damn child) did... that is problem if you see mages as dangerous as archer there is no wonder that you are blinded...

"Killing or imprisoning someone for things they have no control over has
only ever been condoned by those who nowadays we see as the worst people
in human history, and while not the same as Earth, Thedas should at
least follow the same morals."

They still imprison you if you are nuts or have instincts that you can't control in our world and if you don't know a lot unplesant things was done (and they weren't recorded in history books) so that you could live in your society as it is now.Morality doesn't matter in our world not in thedas it is just to make you look prettier and often morality is thrown aside when it comes about doing what is convenient and more profitable so well... 

hell just look what society does "you have to right to be free" oh you did something we don't like you are going to prision or mental hospital well don't want take medicines to bad because you have to by the way "FREEEEEDOOM!"

You ignored the last part of my post. Shows how good you are at listening.<_<

1) Uldred was able to hold the Circle, that's it. And he had a chunk of the Circle helping him. If he was so powerful, why not break out and escape before more Templars arrived?

2) I'll give you Baroness, the Werewolves and SOME of the unrest like Tevinter slavers, but a few following Uldred does not mean the entire Circle did(most didn't), Kirkwall Circle was then defending themselves, and Blights I pin more on Old Gods since in Legacy we see that Corypheus and the other Magisters were used by Dumat to access the Golden City and Blights happen because of the Old God's calls, not some Magisters. And what about every other mage, the ones who aren't painted as villains which is 99% of the mage population. All you are doing is profiling. "Oh, I see a few dozen mages have done bad things. All mages must be like that."

3) To put it in simple terms, all the wars happening at the same time right now is what caused it. It's not cumulative. Right now we have more conflicts in Thedas than at any point in it's history.

4) So you want me to show you a nonmage person responsible for the death of a castle or equivalent. Okay, Arl Rendon Howe. Knight-Commander Meridith. Arishok. Teyn Loghain. King Maric. King Bhelen. Branka. The Warden. Hawke. The list goes on and on.

5) I said they shouldn't just be allowed to wander around. The Circle as a school is a great idea because it teaches mages to control their powers. If they are able to be taught, the threat is removed almost completely ans they become no more dangerous than anyone else. And if they still go bad, then yes prison or death for them, again just like everyone else. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
So if I'm better at something, I have to be given a disadvantage to counter it?
No.  That would be terrible.

An even playing field is one in which all participants are governed by the same rules.

This has nothing to do with it. It's not about being "better" at something.
It's about mages being a demon-attracting fade portal.
It's not about an advantage (altough mages do have one), it's about danger. Sacurity. Protection of life.

Fair? You want to talk about fairness? Tell me, how is the death of the people in Redcliffe "fair"?

This isn't sports. This is life-or-death.

Same rules applying to everyone regardless of differences is redicolous.
Or are you saying a pro-athlete and a guy in a wheelchair should abide by the EXACT same rules and be treated EXACTLY the same? If we put them toget in a vs. match, according to you, that is an "even playing field" and "totally fair".

[Lotion Soronarr]

Inprea wrote...
2. For those regions that resolved they would keep the circle system and the mages that chose to remain as part of the circle system then I would say the templars weren't doing their job very well.

Wut?
Mages want to stay  = templars aren't doign their job?

:blink::blink:

[Lotion Soronarr]

Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

There's not much you can do, other than investigate and hope to punish the guilty one. I say hope, because it's kinda difficult to prove rape, even today. Let lone in the middle ages.
From the POW of hte wronged party, the system has failed if the guilty isn't punished. But from the POW of the judge he CANNOT condemn someone without evidence, and he DOES NOT know the truth.
No system is perfect and systems will fail occasionally. When it does, it becomes hard to trust that system again, but that still doesn't mean the system doesnt' work.

What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case.

The day scientists start hearing demonic whispers, get the abiltiy to mind control, raise dead and summon demons; the day they cna turn against you DESPITE NOT WANTING TO, that day we might start.

As it is comparing scientists to mages is silly. Scientists need materials nad components to work with. They need labolatories. All provided by someone else who keeps a close eye on that stuff. They don't walk home with a deadly bio-engineered virus in their pocket.

As for the Harrowing. It's not an injustice.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
4) So you want me to show you a nonmage person responsible for the death of a castle or equivalent. Okay, Arl Rendon Howe. Knight-Commander Meridith. Arishok. Teyn Loghain. King Maric. King Bhelen. Branka. The Warden. Hawke. The list goes on and on.

1. Had an army with him
2. Had an army with her
3. Had an army with him
4. Had an army with him
5. Had an army with him
6. Had an army with him
7. Had an army with her
8. Is a player character
9. Is a player character

I'd like to remind you that the devs themselves said that mages and epscially abominations are underpowered and misrepresented in the game, and that according to lore, are MUCH more dangerous then shown in gameplay.

The Circle as a school is a great idea because it teaches mages to control their powers. If they are able to be taught, the threat is removed almost completely ans they become no more dangerous than anyone else. And if they still go bad, then yes prison or death for them, again just like everyone else.

Mages ARE taught how to control their power in the Circle already. You are wrong if you think it's just a matter of teaching people something simple as 1+1=2. It's a matter of character and resisting temptation, and those things we don't know how to train effectively even today.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
4) So you want me to show you a nonmage person responsible for the death of a castle or equivalent. Okay, Arl Rendon Howe. Knight-Commander Meridith. Arishok. Teyn Loghain. King Maric. King Bhelen. Branka. The Warden. Hawke. The list goes on and on.

1. Had an army with him
2. Had an army with her
3. Had an army with him
4. Had an army with him
5. Had an army with him
6. Had an army with him
7. Had an army with her
8. Is a player character
9. Is a player character

I'd like to remind you that the devs themselves said that mages and epscially abominations are underpowered and misrepresented in the game, and that according to lore, are MUCH more dangerous then shown in gameplay.

The Circle as a school is a great idea because it teaches mages to control their powers. If they are able to be taught, the threat is removed almost completely ans they become no more dangerous than anyone else. And if they still go bad, then yes prison or death for them, again just like everyone else.

Mages ARE taught how to control their power in the Circle already. You are wrong if you think it's just a matter of teaching people something simple as 1+1=2. It's a matter of character and resisting temptation, and those things we don't know how to train effectively even today.

Well, Conner had an army too. He didn't personally go out and slaughter all those in Redcliffe. As such, I see no difference in comparing those characters to him since they all were the same: the leader of the force that did the deeds.

As for the Circle, I know. That's what I'm trying to argue. Kommandor is basically saying no matter what we do mages will get possessed.

[DPSSOC]

Rotward wrote...
What do we do about scientists working with highly dangerous materials in the real world? We set up precautions. Create facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand. We don't put everyone with an education in a prison, you know, just in case.

Ok but you can't stop mages from doing magic wherever they want.  Scientists need materials, they need equipment, they need a controlled environment to work in, mages do not. 

As for facilities that can contain magic when it gets out of hand Thedas has those already, they're called Circles.

Rotward wrote...
As far as high stress situations where there's no option, well, tough **** and best of luck. There's always a chance that a poorly understood weapon, be it magic or technology, will backfire. If your other option is death at the hands of your enemy, though, what have you got to lose? 

Ok what about outside combat?  Let's say you have a mage conducting the same research on demons Wilhelm was.  If he screws up you've potentially got a demon on the loose, how do you propose to A) keep people from doing that on their own or respond to screw ups when they happen?  I ask because to date most people advocating mage freedom that I've seen have proposed response systems that would take days, if not weeks, to even realize there was something wrong, much less do anything about it.  If your vision of mage freedom is just shrugging and saying oh well to the damage they can do just by being human I dare say they don't deserve it.

[The Elder King]

Connor wasn't the leader of anything. If he ordered the soldiers to do attack the village in normal circumstances, they wouldn't have listened to him. He slaughtered them and turned them into walking corpses after the demon possessed him.
Considering that he easily defeated and conquered the people in the caste, who were mostly trained soldiers, he wouldn't have problems to slaughter the people in Redcliffe.

[Lord Raijin]

DPSSOC wrote...
And what do you do about mages who level villages because they were just stupid?  This is something I often see getting overlooked in discussing the Mage/Templar issue is that mages do not have to be bad people to do large amounts of damage.  All a mage has to do is screw up, and cities can burn.  Warden's Keep didn't happen because Avernus was an "evil mage" it happened because he thought he was more capable than he actually was.  Shale didn't crush Wilhelm because he was "evil" but because he was meddling with something he didn't fully understand and screwed up.  Connor wasn't looking to demons for wealth or power but to save his sick father, again not evil, just stupid.  All of these instances avoided becoming widespread disasters by the slimmest of margins.

So to anyone advocating mage freedom I ask you, what's your plan for when things just go wrong?  When mages push themselves too far, or miscalculate in risky experiments, or just take desperate actions to save the people they care about, what is your plan?  Do you expect people to just accept it, right them off as just some unfortunate but unavoidable happenstance?  Why would they agree to this?

As a very pro Mage and strongly advocating mage freedom here are my plans when things goes wrong.

Not all mages who receive their freedom will do bad things. Perhaps some but not all. In my world any
experiments being conducted outside of the circle must be approved by the First Enchanter of the nearby Circle, and once the experiment is given an OK, a couple of Templar's must be present to monitor the situation, especially if it's risky. Any unlawful experiments being conducted is punishable by imprisonment at Aeonar. If the illegal experiment caused the unlawful death of a citizen the mage would be taken to Aeonar where they would be executed.

A mage can request unwilling human specimens (prisoners) for their legal experiments from their local authorities.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:47 .

[The Elder King]

MasterScribe wrote...

Slaughter every shemlen mage in sight. They are part of the dominant race in Thedas, which emboldens them to seek greater freedom. And then slaughter every Saarebas in sight. They are too dangerous and are signs of Qunari encroachment.

Leave the Dalish and their mages alone. They are trying to rebuild elven society, but have done so mostly without resorting to invasion or acts of terrorism (especially on the scale of Chantry destruction).

Meh. So far one Keeper was willing to see his own clan (as well as innocent people who had nothing to do with what happened in the past) suffer, die or become werewolves, despite the fact that the keeper's primary goal (with finding the lost lore) is to protect his clan. We had a First who slaughtered humans, and she didn't feel remorse when she discovered they weren't responsible for what happened to her sister. We have a Keeper that choose her surrogate child over her clan, since she remained in Kirkwall for years despite the danger, and in the end she let herself been possessed, becoming a thread for her own clan. 
I like the dalish, and I doubt that they're all like that, but most the keepers/first so far haven't shown to be great example of mages.

[ames4u]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote..

I find Tranquility to be horrible no matter what. I think something better like an underground prison surrounded by Lyrium to block the Fade so they can't summon demons would be more humane than literally destroying their sense of self.

The Harrowing... I don't know. There has to be better ways, there just has to be. The Dalish don't need it, Rivain doesn't need it, Hawke and Bethany didn't need it for their father to know they were well trained and not a danger. Problem is, I think some system would need established. So I don't know where I stand on ways to test mages for their graduation, but I do think the Harrowing itself was a bad method.

I do like your first and second paragraph though, those sound good.

Where does it say that lyrium blocks access to the fade?

The Dalish get one on one mentorship with their keeper and even then, they still get possessed.  We probably just don't hear about it as much with their nomadic and isolationist life style.

Seers willingly allow "benevolent" spirits to possess them, and when one spirit is already inhabiting a body, another spirit cannot take it.  So there's not much point in the first place. 

Hawke mentions that they braved the fade before, so it's implied they Malcom DID make them take a harrowing.

For the most part, the harrowing seems to be a pop quiz of sorts....just with more grave consequences.  Mages know they have to take it and they study for it.  Like with facing a real demon, you just don't know when it's going to happen.

It has been theorized that it is the untapped lyrium hidden underground that grants the Dwarves their resistance and prevents them from entering the fade. When a dwarf goes topside they start to lose that resistance because they are no longer being exposed to lyrium, so they start having dreams again-which would support the 'losing their stone-sense' comment. At least, this is the theory presented by others.

That is why some people have said that you could imprison the mages who have little control or willpower to resist demonic influence to be placed in a lyrium prison. Although this does beg the question of how they would stop the mage from drawing on the lyium to bump up their spellpower, which is why I don't quite understand how that plan would even work. Unless they found a way to suppress the magic within the mage the way those cuffs did in Asunder. I suppose they could just apply the same thing to the prison.

[Inprea]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Inprea wrote...
2. For those regions that resolved they would keep the circle system and the mages that chose to remain as part of the circle system then I would say the templars weren't doing their job very well.

Wut?
Mages want to stay  = templars aren't doign their job?

:blink::blink:

Not quite. The question was roughly, as I don't feel like quoting it, what would those of us seeking mage freedom do when a mage did something stupid, and people do do stupid things, and got a lot of other people killed. Now my solution to the mage freedom issue left room for mages that wanted to stay under templar protection as not everyone wants the responsibility that comes with more freedom.

Well as these mages would still be under templar supervision I would say the templars didn't do their job if they allowed such a drastic happening. It isn't the templars aren't doing their job because the mages want to stay. If that's the case I'd say the templars were doing mage templar relationships right at least. They did however fumble the ball when it comes to security. Templars should after all be educated on magic theory at least so they can recognize or better recognize when their charge is having an idiot moment.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You ignored the last part of my post. Shows how good you are at listening.<_<

1) Uldred was able to hold the Circle, that's it. And he had a chunk of the Circle helping him. If he was so powerful, why not break out and escape before more Templars arrived?

2) I'll give you Baroness, the Werewolves and SOME of the unrest like Tevinter slavers, but a few following Uldred does not mean the entire Circle did(most didn't), Kirkwall Circle was then defending themselves, and Blights I pin more on Old Gods since in Legacy we see that Corypheus and the other Magisters were used by Dumat to access the Golden City and Blights happen because of the Old God's calls, not some Magisters. And what about every other mage, the ones who aren't painted as villains which is 99% of the mage population. All you are doing is profiling. "Oh, I see a few dozen mages have done bad things. All mages must be like that."

3) To put it in simple terms, all the wars happening at the same time right now is what caused it. It's not cumulative. Right now we have more conflicts in Thedas than at any point in it's history.

4) So you want me to show you a nonmage person responsible for the death of a castle or equivalent. Okay, Arl Rendon Howe. Knight-Commander Meridith. Arishok. Teyn Loghain. King Maric. King Bhelen. Branka. The Warden. Hawke. The list goes on and on.

5) I said they shouldn't just be allowed to wander around. The Circle as a school is a great idea because it teaches mages to control their powers. If they are able to be taught, the threat is removed almost completely ans they become no more dangerous than anyone else. And if they still go bad, then yes prison or death for them, again just like everyone else. 

"You ignored the last part of my post. Shows how good you are at listening."
pfff don't care evil!

1.Well that wasn't uldred and yes uldred had allies before he was abomnation but then before everything started uldred summoned pride demon and rest of the story you know so pride demon was single when she started.As far i renember he wanted create more abomnations he wasn't sane well he was abomnation...

2.Yes uldred was followed by few and yet that was enough to almost entire tower become abomnations so it still proves my point whether mage create or is part of disaster willingly or not what matters is that they are part of it.About kirkwall excuse who who defended himself or not and why it matters in the end most were abomnations do i should care who was this abomnation before and why he ended this way when he is destroying world no i should care that he is destroying world.So what if mage have this excuse what will happen when he will be attacked by bandits , soldiers or angry crowd so then all they can become abomnations? 
And now best coming
"what about every other mage, the ones who aren't painted as villains which is 99% of the mage population." 99% of them were insane blood mages with stupid evil behavior or just abomnations please spare me that talk most of them are painted that way and this who aren't still are nothing more than walking bombs that simple can't never be part of normal society with a few exceptions.

3.hardly i doubt that that surpasses qunari wars , first tevinter wars or blights (not counting fith) 

4.Every of them is leader and have army without it they are just normal person that can be overthrown , killed or just be ignored by his peoples they wield political power sure it can be used to nasty things but none of them can cause end of the world and eventually other country/leader will get in their way. Abomnation on other hand have huge personal power and his orders never will be questioned as well his army is either undead or just mind controled peoples it don't knows limit and spread only destruction.It is like comparing Hitler to superman who started destroy everything. 

5.Naive and untrue as proven many times every mage is dangerous even trained and harrowed as series proves both this thing don't change much even trained and harrowed mages still are falling to demons and even if they not they still have potential becoming big di*** like baroness , tev magisters ,well most (99%) blood mages and for example avernus or zathrian.So we have humans or elves with all of their human flaws (humans are monsters by nature) who get power adding even more that they are demons magnet.So no they are still dangerous...

[Inprea]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

There's not much you can do, other than investigate and hope to punish the guilty one. I say hope, because it's kinda difficult to prove rape, even today. Let lone in the middle ages.
From the POW of hte wronged party, the system has failed if the guilty isn't punished. But from the POW of the judge he CANNOT condemn someone without evidence, and he DOES NOT know the truth.
No system is perfect and systems will fail occasionally. When it does, it becomes hard to trust that system again, but that still doesn't mean the system doesnt' work.

So you want to punish all mages for the actions of others but you expectt he mages to understand that you can't just punish every templar when a few go bad? Seems like a double standard to me. Plus your ethics and mine are clearly very different. You talk about punishing the guilty party. For me punishing the guilty part is not justice. Justice also requires the person who was wrong to be compensated and made whole once again.

It was the system that stripped the mage of her freedom after all in return for protecton and it was the system that failed her.

Would you apply the, it's hard to prove rule, if the mage acted in self defense and flash fried the offending templar? Unless there were witnesses all you know is the mage said the templar tried to rape her and you have a crispy corpse.I hope you don't expect someone to hold back when defending themselves from assault.

[Inprea]

DPSSOC wrote...

Inprea wrote...
Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

Were I the one designing the system I'd have the two independent bodies nominate investigators.  1 Mage and 1 Templar with the full authourity of the First Enchanter and the Knight Commander working in tandem or individually (as they prefer) once they are satisfied (and both must be satisfied) they've gotten all they can they present their findings, evidence, and conclusions to the First Enchanter and Knight Commander.  Similar rules would apply for the investigators as apply to juries; known associates, relatives, anyone with a direct link to either the victim or the accused are exempt from nomination.

I agree with many Mage supporters that a big problem with the Circle is that the Templars have all the power and authourity, if a Mage has been wronged by a Templar they have nowhere to go for justice but other Templars.  This system is flawed if for no other reason than the mages have no reason to trust it.  However Mages have shown, multiple times, that they can't be trusted to police themselves, so we can't just fix things by flipping it.  A unified investigative and ruling system ensures that each party, victim and accused, has an advocate, somebody who will likely see things from their perspective.

Furthermore no witnesses may be questioned, nor the victim or accused, without the other investigator present.  Violation would result in the investigator being removed from the case and punished accordingly.

Alternatively, mind control the truth out of them.

Well the entire point of this thread is what your solution would be if I'm not mistaken. We're not even talking about what the game is likely to allow us to do. I believe we all know most of our solutions will not happen if any of them. Now you mention punishing. What about compensating? Even if you burned the templar alive and let the mages watch his suffering wouldn't heal the damage done to the wronged mage. What about looking into the other templars performance and finding out why they weren't there to protect the mage? After all that is their job as well.

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Inprea wrote...
Now for the templar supporter. What do you do for the abused or raped mage? Do you expect her to trust the system to protect her after it already failed so horribly? How do you compensate her for the injustice done to her or for forcing her to fight for her life against a demon?

Wow, that's horrible. If they wanted to really show the reality of the Circle system and how it abuses mages, they should add subjects like this. But I guess rape is really something that bothers me, even if it's just in video game.

If that happened in Inquisition, I'd kill every last templar.

Anyway. I'm not really going to answer your question. I just wanted to point out that topics like this should be used to emphasize the harsh reality of the Circle.

Well there was Alrick who tortured and it was implied raped mages at times after making them tranquil. Templar supporters tend to say he's one templar. I tend to think when you see one rat you know there are others. I would say killing all templars is extreme though and not just. That's just my perspective of course. I could understand a rape victim wanting to burn every templar in the tower given that they each were suppose to have protected her. My big issue with even the good templars is that we never see them doing anything to make the system better. Well except perhaps Thrask and even he waited far too long.

Modifié par Inprea, 10 janvier 2014 - 02:43 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Inprea wrote...


Well there was Uldred who tortured and it was implied raped mages at times after making them tranquil. Templar supporters tend to say he's one templar. I tend to think when you see one rat you know there are others. I would say killing all templars is extreme though and not just. That's just my perspective of course. I could understand a rape victim wanting to burn every templar in the tower given that they each were suppose to have protected her. My big issue with even the good templars is that we never see them doing anything to make the system better. Well except perhaps Thrask and even he waited far too long.

That wasn't uldred only alrik , uldred was mage (abomnation) in circle quest in dao.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 janvier 2014 - 02:36 .

[Inprea]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Inprea wrote...


Well there was Uldred who tortured and it was implied raped mages at times after making them tranquil. Templar supporters tend to say he's one templar. I tend to think when you see one rat you know there are others. I would say killing all templars is extreme though and not just. That's just my perspective of course. I could understand a rape victim wanting to burn every templar in the tower given that they each were suppose to have protected her. My big issue with even the good templars is that we never see them doing anything to make the system better. Well except perhaps Thrask and even he waited far too long.

That wasn't uldred only alrik , uldred was mage (abomnation) in circle quest in dao.

Fixed. Thanks. I got the names of the mage crazy and the templar crazy reversed.

[Medhia Nox]

I suppose the question would be: "Who am I in this solution?"

As my Inquisitor - I will let them fight it out largely ignoring these two factions. If they cause issues in my territory, they will have a chance to surrender and if I can't get that, I'll wipe them off the map.

My Inquisition is not about the mages/templar pissing contest (and I have no indication that DA:I is about it either).

[XmajoX]

Let them fight.

[Lord Raijin]

XmajoX wrote...

Let them fight.

The mages will win

[Jaison1986]

Lord Raijin wrote...

XmajoX wrote...

Let them fight.

The mages will win

Nope. The fight will be kept in permanent stalemate until the Inquisitor does something about it. Or did you actually thought someone other then the PC could actually get the job done?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lord Raijin wrote...

XmajoX wrote...

Let them fight.

The mages will win

eee how?

[SeekerOfLight]

IMO, the only way to solve the Mage/Templar conflict is to revise the cicle system.

1) Seperate the Templars from chantry supervision, and make it so that the individual governments are in charge of the welfare of their own citzens (as it should be imo).

Allowing for a religious, foreign institution that may or may not be loyal to the host nation to have life or death power over that nation's ctizens is a recipe for disaster IMO.

2) Retire the harrowing. The harrowing, is a barbaric ritual, but more importantly it is ineffective. As it doesn't prove if a mage is particularly suceptible to possession (e.g. Uldred was a senior enchanter), it only proves ignorance and possibly soft-heartedness on the mage's part (mouse in the harrowing tries to persuade the PC to help him out of pity). Or at least, make it so that all mages must be harrowed, in Origins we are shown that not all mages go through the harrowing, only if you are seen to have enough power magically are you put through

Hardly capital crimes in my estimation, but more importantly can be remedied through greater education and practice. So in fact, failing doesn't really mean weakness on the mage's part as he or she is not prepared merely thrown in the deep end.

A compromise could be that all mages must be harrowed, in Origins we are shown that not all mages go through the harrowing, only if you are seen to have enough power magically are you put through it, otherwise you are made tranquil.

And frankly, the suspicion that many a First enchanter has had a few weak mages made tranquil merely for the purpose of maintaining the circles's wealth makes a pragmatic, if evil sense. As we know that the circles would not get by on charity.

3) Retire the rite of Tranquility or severely restrict how it is used . In the game Tranquility is put forward as alternative for those mages who fear the Harrowing and as punishment for those who break the circles rules. But at the same time we see that the tranquilled can be abused as we have seen in DA2.

One issue I have is that the agency that the tranquil have is inconsistent in DA:O Owain chooses to stay in the stockroom, because he 'feels' comfortable there, while in DA2 Karl deliberately lures Anders into trap even though they were 'close' simply on the command of the templars. So how much free will do the tranquil have?

[Pasquale1234]

Lord Raijin wrote...

XmajoX wrote...

Let them fight.

The mages will win

Templars would have an advantage in that they have military training and chain-of-command, so would be well organized.  The mages would also need to organize and plan some strategy.

Outside of that, the biggest problem the mages would face is overcoming Templar's anti-magic abilities - but they could nerf that by disrupting the Templar's lyrium supply.

Of course, if Flemeth wanted to support the mages, a quick flyover and you'd have an instant Templar funeral pyre - rather like the darkspawn horde in the opening sequences.

They could always go abomination, but I would hope they would not have to resort to that.

[The Elder King]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Nope. The fight will be kept in permanent stalemate until the Inquisitor does something about it. Or did you actually thought someone other then the PC could actually get the job done?

Why do you think the Inquisitor will resolve the war? The game will not be around the mage-templar war, and we don't know if there'll be multiple solution to it due to the save imports. I'd say that at the best the Inquisitor could support one side and make them take an advantage, but I doubt the war will end in DAI.