1537 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

@Thekomandorshepard: when exactly a qunari mage escape and threatened the world. The sareebas in DA2 didn't threaten anything, and he didn't want to summon anything. He thought he might have been a danger because he was alone without an arvaraad, and he dediced to kill himself to follow the Qun. But nowhere it was stated that he was about to fall for a demon.

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

@Thekomandorshepard: the qunari will likely invade before the rest of Thedas will catch up. They have spies around all the continent. They'll know when to act.
As for mages, no they're not like the uber-powerful ninja in Naruto (who aren't that much). But they are still a lot useful, other than for healing. The codex stated that they were determinant, along with the Felicisima Armada, during the first invasion.

Demons and end of the world are rather worse than qunari don't you think?Yes i know about tallis and her list to be honest i wish i had option to kill her and kill every spy but hawke is soooo stupid that sits there and do nothing.But i will get this list even if i will have to torture her and chop spies.Problem with spies for now solved.
An well healing is weak exchange for ax-crazy monster and well mages lost almost every their fight in series...

Not him but yes he is one example that qunari don't controle mages.
i was talking about dragon age redemption. (warning link is to last episode )

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:51 .

[andy6915]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Even if Lyrium doesn't work, I just mean some kind of prison that drains mana or blocks the Fade or something that would keep mages from casting spells. There is already a mage prison, but the place has a specifcally weak veil so that possession is almost certain, which I find unethical and inhamane. Something like that, without the "you are definitely getting possessed part". If they could do it for that prison, they could do it for another.

You can call it unethical and inhumane all you want.  That's a side effect of magic.  There's a reason the veils in circles are thin in the first place.  While small uses of magic don't do much to it, concentrated areas will have effect.  
Unless you intend on funding and erecting multiple areas for mage prisons and circles as well as pay for their needs, along with getting the man power to keep them all in check, it's just not feasible.

Glyphs like the neutralization one from origins could work, but it also says that if it's off in the slightest way it's powerless.  A quick bout of vandalism and the mage is free.

Who says I need a bunch of prisons? Just one big one would do it, and I could just send all bad mages to it.

[Veruin]

andy69156915 wrote...

Who says I need a bunch of prisons? Just one big one would do it, and I could just send all bad mages to it.

That's the point I'm trying to make.  If they use magic on the scale circles do (Including Templar magic canceling abilities since I believe the devs stated that it is a form of magic, albeit it only works on mana users) the veil will get weak.  Then you denounce it as inhumane because the risk of possession just went up.  It's a self fulfilling cycle.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:51 .

[andy6915]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Who says I need a bunch of prisons? Just one big one would do it, and I could just send all bad mages to it.

That's the point I'm trying to make.  If they use magic on the scale circles do (Including Templar magic canceling abilities since I believe the devs stated that it is a form of magic, albeit it only works on mana users) the veil will get weak.  Then you denounce it as inhumane because the risk of possession just went up.  It's a self fulfilling cycle.

Huh?

Who's is using magic on the Circle's scale now? I'm confused.

[Hellion Rex]

andy69156915 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Even if Lyrium doesn't work, I just mean some kind of prison that drains mana or blocks the Fade or something that would keep mages from casting spells. There is already a mage prison, but the place has a specifcally weak veil so that possession is almost certain, which I find unethical and inhamane. Something like that, without the "you are definitely getting possessed part". If they could do it for that prison, they could do it for another.

You can call it unethical and inhumane all you want.  That's a side effect of magic.  There's a reason the veils in circles are thin in the first place.  While small uses of magic don't do much to it, concentrated areas will have effect.  
Unless you intend on funding and erecting multiple areas for mage prisons and circles as well as pay for their needs, along with getting the man power to keep them all in check, it's just not feasible.

Glyphs like the neutralization one from origins could work, but it also says that if it's off in the slightest way it's powerless.  A quick bout of vandalism and the mage is free.

Who says I need a bunch of prisons? Just one big one would do it, and I could just send all bad mages to it.

Well...technically there's Aeonar, although who knows what the hell goes on in there.

[Zombie_Alexis]

I actually think the Dalish have it just about right. I think the only way to mitigate fear of others is to live with others. The people of Thedas fear Mages and Mages actually do need protection because of that fear. I think that a system based on Dalish beliefs, where the Mage is valued and part of the community, could be viable. The Circle would remain and still be used as a place of learning and controlling powers, but Mages could return home to their families, either daily or weekly, and can be integrated into society so that they are part of the community, rather than separate. The Templars would still be needed in every community to "police" when a Mage goes bad. Merrill says in DA2 that when a Keeper becomes possessed, and it does happen, the clan has to hunt down and kill them. This understanding, this "social contract", though brutal, still recognizes that when a Mage does good, it benefits them all.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Who says I need a bunch of prisons? Just one big one would do it, and I could just send all bad mages to it.

That's the point I'm trying to make.  If they use magic on the scale circles do (Including Templar magic canceling abilities since I believe the devs stated that it is a form of magic, albeit it only works on mana users) the veil will get weak.  Then you denounce it as inhumane because the risk of possession just went up.  It's a self fulfilling cycle.

Pharamond created a demon binding circle though as a Tranquil. Perhaps those types of binding circles could be created on the size of a Circle.

[Veruin]

andy69156915 wrote...
Huh?

Who's is using magic on the Circle's scale now? I'm confused.

If it's a mage prison, you would need to use magic to keep them in check.  While I'm not sure how much magic that would take, I'm just assuming that it would take quite a bit.  It may not even take as much as I think.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Pharamond created a demon binding circle though as a Tranquil. Perhaps those types of binding circles could be created on the size of a Circle.

Mind going in to depth on what a demon binding circle exactly is?  I didn't read Asunder so I have little idea of what it fully entails.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:56 .

[andy6915]

Veruin wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
Huh?

Who's is using magic on the Circle's scale now? I'm confused.

If it's a mage prison, you would need to use magic to keep them in check.  While I'm not sure how much magic that would take, I'm just assuming that it would take quite a bit.  It may not even take as much as I think.

Well Lyrium could very well be a good inhibitor, though you disagreed. My Inquisitor would at least test it, lock a mage in a room with heavy amounts of Lyrium and see the effects. If it didn't work... Guess I would nee to get looking for alternate solutions.

[Lady Lionheart]

My solution:
A swift kick to the nether regions of all mages and Templars whilst screaming "GET YOUR FUTTING CHIT TOGETHER!" should do.

[The Elder King]

@thekomandorshepard: having mages alive doesn't mean demons would invade Thedas and destroy it. We don't know yet how the Veil tears happened.
You're assuming that Tallis can be found. She might never left Qun territories again.
As for the qunari mage, thanks for the link. I didn't know about it.

[andy6915]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

I actually think the Dalish have it just about right. I think the only way to mitigate fear of others is to live with others. The people of Thedas fear Mages and Mages actually do need protection because of that fear. I think that a system based on Dalish beliefs, where the Mage is valued and part of the community, could be viable. The Circle would remain and still be used as a place of learning and controlling powers, but Mages could return home to their families, either daily or weekly, and can be integrated into society so that they are part of the community, rather than separate. The Templars would still be needed in every community to "police" when a Mage goes bad. Merrill says in DA2 that when a Keeper becomes possessed, and it does happen, the clan has to hunt down and kill them. This understanding, this "social contract", though brutal, still recognizes that when a Mage does good, it benefits them all.

I like and agree with your post.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Pharamond created a demon binding circle though as a Tranquil. Perhaps those types of binding circles could be created on the size of a Circle.

Mind going in to depth on what a demon binding circle exactly is?  I didn't read Asunder so I have little idea of what it fully entails.

When Pharamond (the Tranquil) was experimenting on curing Tranquility, he created a binding circle using some runes on the ground, and placed himself inside its confines. When he is later possessed by a pride demon, he couldn't step outside the Circle at all. He was effectively trapped, and the pride demon powerless within the Circle.

Btw, you totally need to read Asunder. Great book.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:59 .

[soren4ever]

1. Turn the Circles into Mage Guilds/Academies, require all mages to attend from age 7 to 18, mages will no longer be prevented from visiting and having contact with family and friends outside the Circle. At the age of 18 all mages must complete a final examination(The Harrowing or Something else?) Mages who pass this examination will be allowed to leave the Circle at will, but those who decide to stay will gain special perks. Mages will no longer be forbidden from having relationships with other mages or non-mages. The Circles will be outside the Chantry's control.

2. Secularize the Templar Order: The Templar Order should be reorganized, have zero ties to the Chantry, and Templars must go through an application process. Templars should be trained alongside the mages as to be taught not to fear magic and to truly understand what it means to be a mage. Religious zealotry and abuse of mages or other Templars will be strictly forbidden. Templars will be trained to use a balance of reason and emotion, not just run on faith.

3. Create a third independent group: said group will be involved in overseeing the mages and Templars; and hearing any complaints of abuse or corruption from both sides. the accused will then be tried in a court led by this group and judge by a jury of both Circle mages and Templars. Members of this group can not be former Circle mages, former Templars, or members of the Chantry, unless both sides agree on the person. This group must remain neutral and never favor one side or the other.

[Champion1]

Create an elite strike team to go through the tear in the Veil and find the magic button that makes everyone ever born from then on a Mage, then close the tear and let the world burn and rise into something new. From Sandal's "prophecy" in DA2 I'd say its a safe bet there is such a button.

Realistically though, I've got nothing. Every ends with the mages either in control, or suppressed again. Unless you teach every non-mage how to fight mages, there really isn't any platform for equality as non-mages will always not understand and be afraid of mages. You could offer classes to understand magic, but you can't force people to go. The whole war is going to end bloody.

Edit: also, the Litany of Adralla should be mandatory education, as well known as the Chant of Light.

Modifié par Champion1, 06 janvier 2014 - 05:09 .

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...
When Pharamond (the Tranquil) was experimenting on curing Tranquility, he created a binding circle using some runes on the ground, and placed himself inside its confines. When he is later possessed by a pride demon, he couldn't step outside the Circle at all. He was effectively trapped, and the pride demon powerless within the Circle.

Thank you.  Now, that sounds effective.  Do you need a mage outside of the binding circle to dispell it or can the mage/demon inside; dispell it if they are witty enough to find a loophole?  (Wiping the glyphs away or something)

eluvianix wrote...

Btw, you totally need to read Asunder. Great book.

I would if I could find decent hard cover copies of it.  I have this silly requirement that any book that gets added to my library must have a hard cover.  I just really prefer the feel of it to paperback.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 05:04 .

[Heimdall]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

I actually think the Dalish have it just about right. I think the only way to mitigate fear of others is to live with others. The people of Thedas fear Mages and Mages actually do need protection because of that fear. I think that a system based on Dalish beliefs, where the Mage is valued and part of the community, could be viable. The Circle would remain and still be used as a place of learning and controlling powers, but Mages could return home to their families, either daily or weekly, and can be integrated into society so that they are part of the community, rather than separate. The Templars would still be needed in every community to "police" when a Mage goes bad. Merrill says in DA2 that when a Keeper becomes possessed, and it does happen, the clan has to hunt down and kill them. This understanding, this "social contract", though brutal, still recognizes that when a Mage does good, it benefits them all.

The Dalish segregate themselves from society, which tends to only enhance human distaste and fear of them.  They also practice mageocracy, putting mages in charge of everything.  I don't think they believe what you think they do.

[Pasquale1234]

Hogwart's, and a Ministry of Magic.

But that isn't going to happen.

I think some form of Circle System is needed.  Mundanes are fearful and distrustful of mages, and those fears are not without justification.  I think that mages have some serious PR work to do to gain greater support and acceptance among the general populace - so how about - I dunno, maybe regularly scheduled open houses at the Circles where the public is invited in for tea and cakes, magical entertainment, and healing?

We have seen that some Circle mages have been allowed a degree of freedom to pursue their interests.  Wynne was allowed to travel with the Warden, and Ines had the freedom to pursue her botanical interests in DA:A.  I always thought it odd that Wynne got permission from the First Enchanter rather than the Knight-Commander to leave the Circle to travel with the Warden.  Clearly, things are not as bad for mages elsewhere as they were in Kirkwall.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
When Pharamond (the Tranquil) was experimenting on curing Tranquility, he created a binding circle using some runes on the ground, and placed himself inside its confines. When he is later possessed by a pride demon, he couldn't step outside the Circle at all. He was effectively trapped, and the pride demon powerless within the Circle.

Thank you.  Now, that sounds effective.  Do you need a mage outside of the binding circle to dispell it or can the mage/demon inside dispell it if they are witty enough to find a loophole?  (Wiping the glyphs away or something)

Wynne warned that crossing the binding circle or wiping away the runes would break the binding from the outside. It appeared that the pride demon had no way to break it from the inside. I figure that if a pride demon couldn't break the spell, then the binding seal was pretty damn strong.

[andy6915]

Okay, new rule. If I agree with a post and have nothing to add then I just won't post. Reason for this rule is every post since my last, I've agreed with. I can't keep up with the amount of posts I like. So I'll only post if I have something to add or strongly disagree, if I don't say anything to you then it means I largely agreed with it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

@thekomandorshepard: having mages alive doesn't mean demons would invade Thedas and destroy it. We don't know yet how the Veil tears happened.
You're assuming that Tallis can be found. She might never left Qun territories again.
As for the qunari mage, thanks for the link. I didn't know about it.

No lets see entire circle tower , baroness , connor , almost every da 2 mage , meredith sister and much more.Ignoring all this damage caused by abomnations (and it is a lot damage) now we going into territory when mage isn't abomnation but human and humans are flawed heh magisters even didn't need abomnation to create darkspawn and all things what they did , look at Quention and many other mages who did a lot harm even without abomnation.

I can bet that she isn't on qunari territory watch redemption you will know reason i doubt that she was working for qunari than just protecting them even if she is working for them i doubt that she left thedas.    

[dreamgazer]

A happenstance earthquake that swallows up the extremists from both sides.