45 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingSquirrel]

I just finished my "canon" trilogy run with my Colonist War Hero Selyn Shepard. (I might still go back and replay the trilogy with her for fun sometime in the future, but this was the time I recorded everything with Fraps, and I don't plan to do that again.)

Despite being less disenchanted with the endings than some here, I still couldn't quite make a decision at the end, so I ended up recording both a Control ending (mostly using the Renegade "your control plan will fail" dialogue with TIM) and a Synthesis ending (mostly using the Paragon "it's not your place to do this" dialogue with TIM). And either of them do still require a dose of headcanon for me to accept them and get around the problems I have with the choices themselves as well as parts of the closing narrations. So they're both sitting there on my hard drive. I'm not sure I'll ever decide what Selyn Shepard *really* did at the end (I'm tempted to edit together yet another "alternate ending" video, even though most people are probably tired of those).

Another thing I did was that, instead of trying to find a place for the Citadel DLC to fit into the narrative, I decided to leave it uninstalled until I actually finished the game, then go back and load the post-ending autosave and activate it. I suppose if I had to "place" it somewhere, I'd assume that it's either (a) the one dream Shepard had that *wasn't* about the kid; ( an hallucination Shepard had while jumping into the Synthesis beam; or © a sort of holodeck program that AI-Shepard runs when she's feeling nostalgic . In any case, I found that it worked rather well for me that way, i.e. it's not really part of the narrative, just something Shepard is imagining. I don't think the light tone and the occasional over-the-top parody moments can really be made to fit ME3's otherwise grim atmosphere, but if it's just a dream, well, dreams don't always make sense.

[von uber]

Why not record a destroy also?

[FlyingSquirrel]

von uber wrote...

Why not record a destroy also?

This particular Shepard just wouldn't choose Destroy (or Refuse). She's a reluctant warrior who always exhausts the alternatives before picking up her gun. For her, the selfish hubris of the Leviathans was the true cause of this whole mess, whereas the Catalyst and the Reapers are just doing what they were programmed to do and probably never had free will in the first place. Also, having been through Mindoir as a civilian, she's especially careful about anyone whom she sees as "caught in the crossfire," so releasing an undiscriminating anti-synthetic pulse that would destroy EDI and the geth is simply off the table for her.
I'm just still not 100% sure which of the other two she *would* pick, and probably won't ever be.

[SwobyJ]

So you understand/interpret Citadel DLC as unreal, in some way, too?

It really is, to me, like the refuge (for better or worse..) in his mind that he can stay in, or feel empowered by and leave. As with the player.


And good on you for actually RPing in a RP game! (No sarcasm.) I have a whole stable of Shepards that WILL pick Synthesis and WILL pick Control. Indoctrinated, mind-tripped, scared, reckless, mad, sane, dutiful - or not.

[FlyingSquirrel]

SwobyJ wrote...

So you understand/interpret Citadel DLC as unreal, in some way, too?

It really is, to me, like the refuge (for better or worse..) in his mind that he can stay in, or feel empowered by and leave. As with the player.

Well, I'm actually something of a literalist in how I interpret what I see on the screen -- once the war assets you get from the DLC show up in the War Room terminal, then it *is* unquestionably real as far as I'm concerned. I don't think Bioware really intended it to be unreal, but they probably rightly suspected that some people would play the DLC by reloading an old save without replaying the entire game, and thus we'd experience it out of context anyway. If it hadn't been the final DLC, I suspect we wouldn't have had scenes like Shepard obsessing over how "I should go" sounds or Samantha's toothbrush saving the day.

So because I am fairly literalist in how I interpret these things, playing it after I'd finished the game felt right since I wanted to imagine it as taking place in Shepard's mind. (I also space-barred around the auto-Renegade bit where Shepard uses Joker as bait and kills the merc who hasn't done anything besides fire at the ceiling - not sure why they made that a default sequence.)

And good on you for actually RPing in a RP game! (No sarcasm.) I have a whole stable of Shepards that WILL pick Synthesis and WILL pick Control. Indoctrinated, mind-tripped, scared, reckless, mad, sane, dutiful - or not.

Yeah, for me shaping Shepard's character, opinions, and relationships with other characters (and I don't just mean romance - Selyn didn't have any romances, in fact) has always been one of the most enjoyable parts of Mass Effect for me. That's partly why I still find the trilogy replayable - even when the choices don't have vastly different consequences or are fairly binary, the reasons for the choices differ from one Shepard to another.

[SwobyJ]

The whole repeated 'Why do I have to be the bait?' stuff is because Joker is going to use the Normandy as bait as Harbinger rage shoots everything ... in ME4.

lol.. it'd be funny to look back on this post and see if I'm right.

~~~

My weird interpretation of the whole series now is that it technically happens in an 'Eternity' as Shepard rises into the 'Afterlife' of 'Purgatory' while the actual real Shepard is gradually being Indoctrinated and replaced by someone else (as we clearly see Benezia has that happens to her).
Everyone is a part of the journey somehow too, like Benezia attached to Saren. The actual physical 'real' Shepard is doing crazy indoc stuff, being as mean and cruel as 'CloneShep', and gathering the same forces that Saren attempts to in ME1 and before it.

We're gradually playing more and more in a created 'purgatory' for Shepard as it becomes harder and harder to make sense of events happening without it making Shepard the villain (and things like betraying Mordin, etc, put a spotlight on the 'real' character of Shepard) that he doesn't want to believe he is, leading everyone to the Reapers. Being more Paragon is the 'lie to help the healing' with the danger of getting stuck in the simulation yet helpfulness of making Shepard the true hero, while being more Renegade is closer to the 'brutal truth used to empower' with the danger of losing your emotional connections yet helpfulness of bringing 'our' Shepard to life in the real world!

"Everything will change, but on our terms."
"This isn't over. You have to believe we're not done yet."
etc

Synthesis loses Shepard entirely, but it at least reflects the ultimate ideal of the whole process of the series now but especially into the future of it, so it still reflects hope.

A lot of this comes from the understanding from Leviathan DLC that indoctrination is most basically a rewrite of your brain by nanites into something else similar but aligned to the Reapers and without care for others' well being. If your brain was being rewritten and quantum entangled by a specific Reaper, how would you feel? What would you see? Especially if much of your own body becomes cybernetic? Including the eyes and ears?

~~~

"The reasons for the choices differ from one Shepard to another."

Totally. And our player perspectives may change as well. It's not an ideal gaming situation (I still strongly prefer more concrete choice-and-consequence), but I don't think people waving it entirely off really 'get it'.

~~~

Citadel DLC really is best fit after you finish the game. It just doesn't mean that it truly takes place then. Wibbly wobbly time and mental stuff.

Or we just drop the heavy thinking and shoot some stuff in Armax Arena. That's a totally valid path that Bioware seems to think is A-OK.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 07 janvier 2014 - 03:40 .

[Pee Jae]

Personally... I headcanon that Citadel takes place after the ending. (Destroy.) That way, Shep's alive, EDI's alive, only the Reapers were destroyed. One last party and we all go our separate ways. The End.

[SwobyJ]

t_skwerl wrote...

Personally... I headcanon that Citadel takes place after the ending. (Destroy.) That way, Shep's alive, EDI's alive, only the Reapers were destroyed. One last party and we all go our separate ways. The End.

And they let you believe that lie-I mean headcanon. (I mean no harm)

But really, I think Bioware fully realized that they needed a more contented fanbase for the 2+ years that 'ME4' would take to make, so even if its quite the wacky placement for the DLC (and for imo a very good reason), if they make it FEEL fully 'post ending' regardless, it's all good for now.

So you did good, it's cool!

[MattFini]

t_skwerl wrote...

Personally... I headcanon that Citadel takes place after the ending. (Destroy.) That way, Shep's alive, EDI's alive, only the Reapers were destroyed. One last party and we all go our separate ways. The End.

Same. I'm saving the whole party piece for after I slog through the ending again. It certainly helps wash away some of ME3's lingering bitterness.  

Swoby's interpretation is pretty interesting, though. I haven't been around the BSN much this past year so many Citadel has been discussed in greater detail. But this is the first I've heard of anyone getting that particular read out of it. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

StreetMagic wrote...

If it was some special place Shepard goes into his head, I'd be disappointed. Because I don't get to be around all of the people my character would want around. Not until the party. Where's Samara and Jack and Grunt? As a simple Shore Leave period though, it's cool.

Maybe you're only referring to Swoby, but I didn't picture my Shepard *choosing* the exact content even if it's happening in her mind. Certainly not if it's a dream or an hallucination. And if it's AI-Shepard in the Control ending having the experience, I see it as more like a Star Trek holodeck simulation where the participants set some parameters but don't know exactly what's going to happen.

[SwobyJ]

MattFini wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Personally... I headcanon that Citadel takes place after the ending. (Destroy.) That way, Shep's alive, EDI's alive, only the Reapers were destroyed. One last party and we all go our separate ways. The End.

Same. I'm saving the whole party piece for after I slog through the ending again. It certainly helps wash away some of ME3's lingering bitterness.  

Swoby's interpretation is pretty interesting, though. I haven't been around the BSN much this past year so many Citadel has been discussed in greater detail. But this is the first I've heard of anyone getting that particular read out of it. 

Just know I'm not stating it da truuth or anything.

It DOES make my trilogy playthroughs very, yeah, INTERESTING though. Symbolically and functionally.

Bioware does like their mind trips.
-KOTOR's whole... main story.
-Dragon Age's Fade interactions
-I just saw recently that for Neverwinter Nights, they planned an Insanity Meter
-Check out Consular storyline (spoilers) in SWTOR for Chapter 3

Bio-Ware. Biological Hard/software.




Whatever the case, I do believe them that 'Shepard' is done. I just don't think that things are as they seem, and I think that they're really just using semantics to cover what really does come down to being a 'sequel' in some form.

[SwobyJ]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

If it was some special place Shepard goes into his head, I'd be disappointed. Because I don't get to be around all of the people my character would want around. Not until the party. Where's Samara and Jack and Grunt? As a simple Shore Leave period though, it's cool.

Maybe you're only referring to Swoby, but I didn't picture my Shepard *choosing* the exact content even if it's happening in her mind. Certainly not if it's a dream or an hallucination. And if it's AI-Shepard in the Control ending having the experience, I see it as more like a Star Trek holodeck simulation where the participants set some parameters but don't know exactly what's going to happen.

Yeah sorry for semi-hijacking your thread.

Would be weird and almost 'Super Mario Theory' (that it's all a staged show in all the games, haha) to think of Citadel this way though.

Whatever it is, its clear that Bioware didn't want to 'prescribe' answers for us, so consider it whatever you want. Headcanon, theories, handwaving, whatever works!

[draken-heart]

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

[ImaginaryMatter]

draken-heart wrote...

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

Wouldn't the Citadel DLC feel really strange without ME2?

[dreamgazer]

draken-heart wrote...

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

That's ... bizarre, considering how much Citadel has to do with ME2 squadmates and plot points.

[draken-heart]

StreetMagic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

How does that makes sense with Maya and EDI around? Even if all of your ME2 squad is gone, those two are still there validating it's existence.

Never said that EDi never existed, just that ME 2, as in the events, never did.

[dreamgazer]

draken-heart wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

How does that makes sense with Maya and EDI around? Even if all of your ME2 squad is gone, those two are still there validating it's existence.

Never said that EDi never existed, just that ME 2, as in the events, never did.

But the clone ... Cerberus ... y'know what? 

[draken-heart]

dreamgazer wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I like to headcanon that ME 1 and Citadel DLC are the only real part of ME, and that the rest was just a story made up for some child.

That's ... bizarre, considering how much Citadel has to do with ME2 squadmates and plot points.

That is odd, considering the Citadel DLC has very little to do with ME 2 characters at all.

Here is what I am talking about: Shepard picks up EDI while on a joint assignement with Cerberus, that is not Collector-related. Miranda is there, and Maya's references are true, but the mission of ME 2 never happened.

Modifié par draken-heart, 07 janvier 2014 - 09:40 .