38 réponses à ce sujet

[maaaad365]

TIM is crazy ( indoctrinated ) and he doesn't know exactly what the Crucible will do until the end. Cerberus worked on their own indoctrination weapon, they didn't count on the Crucible.

But they were working for the reapers without realizing it, that's why they acted so strange - the indoctrinators were indoctrinated .

My 2 credits.

Modifié par maaaad365, 07 janvier 2014 - 09:34 .

[Display Name Owner]

I always assumed he didn't realise that was the case until after studying the VI from Thessia.

As for why he tried to ruin the Crucible docking, I guess he'd just thoroughly lost it by then. He was all nanite-d up by that point IIRC.

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

According to that comic, he always knew he was indoctrinated -- but he somehow escaped the worst effects (or so he thought). Saren and Saren's brother were curious why TIM wasn't as bad off as others, and TIM became emboldened by it. As if he touched fire and didn't get burned. When you do that, you start taking more risks and chances, playing with fire more and more. "Because I'm invincible. Or special. Or have control of this somehow."

Yes. Because he did.

Until.. until....

[Ravensword]

klarabella wrote...

TIM also seemed to know ... things ... back in ME2.

No one knew what was behind the Omega-4 relay but TIM read in his tea leaves that whatever lay behind could be taken care of by one single frigate and a bunch of very random people.

Yes. The prophecy was laid out before TIM the Revelator on how the Shepard would come back from the dead, and he would seek out the 12 apostles and destroy the Collectors.

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

He was somehow immune to an extent, but he believed it so much that he thought he could put that crap in his head and still be OK.

It's like if someone survives shooting more heroin than anyone he knows - but becomes stupid enough to inject a lot of it in it's purest form. One situation doesn't logically lead to the other, but he made the mistake in thinking just that.

Maybe this'll be a good lesson to remember as we head into the next games? I can see how the writers would work that in (see: my idea that ME4 will be as Control oriented as ME1-3, especially ME1-2, were Destroy oriented).

[SwobyJ]

Ravensword wrote...

klarabella wrote...

TIM also seemed to know ... things ... back in ME2.

No one knew what was behind the Omega-4 relay but TIM read in his tea leaves that whatever lay behind could be taken care of by one single frigate and a bunch of very random people.

Yes. The prophecy was laid out before TIM the Revelator on how the Shepard would come back from the dead, and he would seek out the 12 apostles and destroy the Collectors.

Oh yeah he liked playing that Biblical role too.

[N7Gold]

SwobyJ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

EDIT: BTW should I mention the '6-66' on the stair walls as you head down the hallway to meet TIM for the first time?

Interesting, I never noticed that.

I'm just going to go out and say that TIM is the transmigrated 'spirit' of a rebellious Reaper who wanted to break off from the host. Through connection to it, he (Jack Harper) gained insight at the expense of freedom and his more human identity, and when the Reaper died (he sacrificed the body/brain of it for the Reaper IFF), TIM became more human for a little while, yet opened himself up to indoctrination from outside forces or maybe the Human Reaper itself.

He became a proxy tool for the Reapers eventually, fulfilling his role as a tempter of mortals into devious and dangerous ways for the sake of advancement.

He's Mass Effect's Lucifer. And we have to, in the end, decide whether his route of advancement may be preferable over, for example losing EDI/Geth, or opening up the galaxy to another galactic conflict disaster without Shepard's power over stopping it, etc.

Byeeeee. 

That reminds me of what Gavin Archer (the same guy from ME2's DLC Overlord) told Shepard what he said to Illusive Man before he quit Cerberus: "I told him if his intention is to work with the devil, he only had to look in the mirror."

It should be obvious which is the right cohice. TIM and the Reapers try so hard to dissuade Shepard from using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers, and over and over ithe message is repeated that sometimes the right choice is not the easy ones, which means losing EDI and the Geth to create a Reaper free galaxy where everyone is free to create their own future without being manipulated by the Reapers regardless of the possibility of another galactic conflict. Real peace cannot be obtained by avoiding possible conflicts, it is obtained by solving conflicts. The conflict between the quarians and geth and the outcome of establishing peace between them is evidence of that.

[ElSuperGecko]

pablosplinter wrote...
Playing through the ending, TIM says that 'The crucible will let me control them' or something along those lines a few times. So it is safe to say that the Crucible is the main part of his plan(whatever it is). If this is the case, why does he actively work against the Crucible, and everyone working to complete it?

Cheers

He doesn't work against the Crucible project; not really.

Cerberus compete with you to obtain the plans for the Crucible, interfere in the attempts to cure the genophage, attack Grissom Academy, stage a coup on the Citadel and beat you to the VI on Thessia.

A lot of the Cerberus missions appear to disrupt resistance against the Reapers or lead up to the events on Horizon, but they don't really make any attempt to disrupt the construction of the Crucible or sabotage it.  If anything, it appears that the Illusive Man is not interfering with it's construction, but instead is trying to stay one step ahead of the game when it comes to knowing about it's function and purpose.

[IllusiveManJr]

We will find out in the next DLC.

[pablosplinter]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...
Playing through the ending, TIM says that 'The crucible will let me control them' or something along those lines a few times. So it is safe to say that the Crucible is the main part of his plan(whatever it is). If this is the case, why does he actively work against the Crucible, and everyone working to complete it?

Cheers

He doesn't work against the Crucible project; not really.

but they don't really make any attempt to disrupt the construction of the Crucible or sabotage it.  If anything, it appears that the Illusive Man is not interfering with it's construction, but instead is trying to stay one step ahead of the game when it comes to knowing about it's function and purpose.

They do disrupt it, as the only way we(The Alliance etc) know that the Citadel is needed is through a series of frotunate events suce as going to Sanctuary, tracking Kei Lame, assauting the base etc. Without all that happening, the crucible would just be useless. TIM tries to keep the information from you even though it is crucial to his masterplan, and in all of these missions, Cerberus is trying to stop and kill you.

Modifié par pablosplinter, 07 janvier 2014 - 04:53 .

[SwobyJ]

He seems to have no problem with the construction of the Crucible itself.

He does seem to be against its proposed purpose (Destroy), and it looks like IF he had his FULL way, instead of nimbly jumping from one secondary plan to another, he would have created the Crucible himself, using a converted humanity, crippled Citadel, occupied Omega, assets from across the galaxy (moreso the best humans and Salarians for that intel boost).

I think we can headcanon that in a Shep Dies ending of ME2, this is exactly what he pushes forward and achieves. That Shepard had his role, played it, was counted as an acceptable yet regrettable loss (TIM does have a respect for Shepard and seems to prefer him alive and fighting), and TIM can move forward in tracking down and deciphering plans for technology left long ago.

Of course, if we take the ending as it is, he would still fail, because he was *always set up to be our nemesis, not our goody goody friend*. In Christian stories, Lucifer tends to still end up as part of "God(child, heh)'s" plan, so I think he was, even without possible extra implants, to some degree always under the Reapers' thumb. If not in spirit (philosophy, as he struggled against it and their 'synthesis purpose'), then at least in enough of his mind that there is no way he'd be able to win. But he tries regardless.