9 réponses à ce sujet

[SleepIncarnate]

Ok, so when Tali asks you for help with looking for stuff for her pilgramage, she mentions that what would be really awesome is something from geth that aren't affiliated with Saren.  In comes the geth in the Armstrong Nebula, who even have a recording of a soulful Quarian song when you destroy the last of them. 

The thing is, on Rayingri, right outside the base there, are a ton of Dragon's Teeth, and inside is filled with husks.  We know from ME2 that these are reaper tech, and thus indicates that these are all heretics.  Legion even tells us as much later on, that we never faced anything but heretics.

As such, doesn't this kind of negate what Tali's looking for?  Wouldn't they be affiliated with Saren?  Why would they have the Quarian song still at the end?  Are there multiple factions of heretics, some working with Saren, others off doing their own thing for the reapers?

[KrrKs]

My take on these things is:

As such, doesn't this kind of negate what Tali's looking for?

Not entirely. Tali searches for new geth tech. The splitt between the heretics and the other geth is considerably newer than the morning war, so apart from hoppers and some other reaper inspired designs there should be enough that is "originally geth-made" to be usefull for her.

Wouldn't they be affiliated with Saren?

With Sovereign/Nazarra definitely, I'm not sure how far their affiliation with Saren is though.

Why would they have the Quarian song still at the end?

They are still "geth", and as such have their share of the original memory files -who knows what that means to their hive minds.

Are there multiple factions of heretics, some working with Saren, others off doing their own thing for the reapers?

That is possible. Maybe the Armstrong Cluster geth were supposed to help during the initial reaper attack, after Sovereign opens the Citadel Relay
(that would somewhat explain why they don't do much even if they aren't destroyed in ME1)

[cap and gown]

It always struck me as a plot hole. Legion states that the Geth have not gone to war with organics, that was the heretics. Yet here we have a bunch of Geth invading a cluster. So they should be heretics according to what Legion says. And if they are heretics, then they are associated with Saren. The only out is to say that Sovereign was in charge of this group, not Saren.

[NekkidNones]

Could be that legion is lying, and taking you for a fool. Starchild does tell you that synthetics will always rebel against organics eventually. Why would legion and his elitist geth be any different? Cause he says so? What's legions PokerFace look like? Isn't calling a group of geth heretics sound like a bit of a religious/emotional label?

Besides, shadow broker Intel may suggest that Legion indeed has leanings to subterfuge with his chosen handle of infiltrait0rn7.

(Weaves a new mass effect conspiracy theory)

[SleepIncarnate]

Well, the ones on Rayingri have dragons teeth and husks, which are confirmed to be reaper tech, and the ones at the final base on Solcrum have hoppers, which we never see again outside this game and, as KrrKs mentions above, can be assumed to also be reaper upgrades. This tells us that the Armstrong geth are for sure the heretics. So we still have that plot hole there of them being "non-affiliated with Saren" but still being reaper affiliated. The only reaper out and about at this time is Sovereign/Nazara, so if they aren't affiliated with Saren... what the heck are they doing out there?

[NekkidNones]

I was being sarcastic, but just I don't understand the issue between a reaper affiliation and Saren geth. The "Heretics" were working with/for sovereign, as was Saren. If Sovereign assigned several platoons to work under saren but had scores more doing things elsewhere, how's that a plot hole?

It may just be me, but I don't remember Tali ever specifying that she needed data from geth that aren't affiliated with Sovereign/Saren. Wasn't when she asked to copy the data anyways. How anyone would know the difference between the geth and the heretics anyways? There doesn't seem to be much evidence that the "true" geth and the heretics tech & culture have diverged to any great extent beyond their views on the reapers.  Nor do I recall hearing a timeframe for how long sovereign has been in contact with just the heretics.

vid of Tali asking for the Data.



As for the song being sung, I don't think it points to that group of geth being affiliated with one group or another.
Recall Merchant of Venice - "If you ****** us, do we not bleed?"(52:35 should the timestamp not work)

Modifié par MoonSpot, 07 janvier 2014 - 09:49 .

[SleepIncarnate]

If you wait a while before going there, she eventually tells you that because she's the daughter of an admiral, she has to bring back something special, like data about the geth. Then she specifies that the geth you've been fighting have all been affiliated with Saren, and the data she would need would have to be geth working alone, on their own. It's the conversation where she starts feeling better after being homesick. It's the last of her dialog tree before that mission. Kind of like having to wait a while to wait for Wrex and Garrus to tell you about the armor and Dr. Hart (though you could do them early).

For the whole convo:


For the bit I'm talking about where she specifically talks about what she needs to bring back:
http://youtu.be/T8j7P4kjblc?t=2m40s

Modifié par SleepIncarnate, 07 janvier 2014 - 10:28 .

[NekkidNones]

I thought Tali needed to hit geth that are operating independently so they can be captured complete. If they're near a hub, their software leaves and you're left with an incomplete geth unit. Like a bricked console. I think Legion confirms this in a convo during his loyalty mission, if you inquire as to an ETA for heretic reprogramming. He mentions units operating in isolated locations.

Anyways, you're probably right. Tali's line in the link you posted, does seem to imply something.

[capn233]

You never meet any "true Geth" until you activate Legion. All Geth outside the Veil were heretics, including the ones you fight in ME2.

Nobody knows about the schism among the Geth in ME1 and assume all Geth are the same.

[SleepIncarnate]

Yeah, I just find it weird that we have that distinction of them being basically made out to be "separate from Saren's geth" when they are (as we later learn) heretics. You can even learn of the Armstrong Invasion from a geth terminal on Feros, near the leg of the ship you tear off, if you haven't been there yet, indicating that the two are connected. Yet Tali is asking for geth that aren't connected to Saren, indicating that she wants data from the "true geth" and while maybe not knowing the full extent of the heretic faction, has some idea that Saren's group are different from normal geth.