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[Seival]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...


If you are going to play EvE Online, then 5 hours will definitely not be enough even to finish the tutorial And this is the problem, because this RPG game looks like a feature creep heaven. Some people like it, but everyone knows that EvE Online is a game about gameplay, there is no room for storytelling there. I like only heavily story-driven RPGs, and I believe BioWare likes to produce exactly this kind of RPG games.

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Personally, I think Bioware goes for more of a jack of all trades approach rather than a master of one thing approach. By that I mean, they've always tried to back up their story and character interactions with a good amount of competent gameplay that allows for experimentation. I think Bioware understands that many people are looking for replayability in their games, and allowing for a diverse amount of builds feeds into this idea. Personally, I would probably only play through B:TS maybe 2 or 3 times based on your description. Sure, Jodie's attitude may lead to different outcomes, but I can always read up on those. I can't experience playing an experimental build by reading about it. If I can't return to a game, then I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

I played through The Last of Us, Remember Me, and Killzone: Shadow Fall just once, Beyond: Two Souls - twice, and Mass Effect Trilogy 10 times. But you may see how exactly I value each game in my top 5. Replayability is not one of key factors for me. I value quality of storytelling, visual/sound quality, and acceptability/diversity of gameplay, not the number of times I want to play a game again. I judge a game by feelings and memories it gave me after I played it. I feel no need to return to a good game over and over again. Feelings and memories are more than enough.

...Well, and replayability isn't what defines RPG. It's optional for any game. And it's not always an advantage.

As for "jack of all trades approach", I believe it can be said about DA series, but can't be said about ME series. Mass Effect is more and more "a master of one thing" from game to game. And they will probably keep this trend in future ME games.

Modifié par Seival, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:06 .

[spirosz]

Seival wrote...
And game may have just one feature from the first list to be called an RPG game (at least partially).

Curious, Seival.  Would you consider Borderlands an RPG because of it has one aspect of an "RPG" with, levelling, loot, etc.  

[Get Magna Carter]

Seival wrote...

How can user play a role in a video game? There are five different ways:
(1) By choosing his character(s) behavior via different pre-made dialogue or non-dialogue options.
(2) By making decisions that will affect the way the story will be told.
(3) By choosing and playing combat (tank, dps, heal/support, etc) or non-combat (herbalist, smith, etc.) role.
(4) By developing his character(s), improving them in a way to perform their combat or non-combat role better.
(5) By choosing race and/or gender of his character before starting the game.

What some users mistakenly consider as RPG elements? The following features that have nothing to do with playing a role:
(1) Exploration. Opening a fog of war or searching chests/environments for some valuables isn't playing a role.
(2) Detailed character creation. Just the game's visual settings, not a role playing.
(3) Huge open world. Just one of approaches to environment design in any game, not a role playing.
(4) More than just one character player can control. RPG game may have only one character player can control.

Features from the second list are not what make an RPG. And game may have just one feature from the first list to be called an RPG game (at least partially).

Considering all of this, I don't understand why some people call Mass Effect a "non-RPG game". Also, I don't understand why some people think that NME with, say, just two features from the first list and without any features from the second list "wouldn't be an RPG game". BioWare can sacrifice some RPG elements plus avoid feature creep in order to tell the story much better. And why shouldn't they do so, if they will decide to follow this path? The game will still be an RPG, and BioWare already told that their main goal is to tell really amazing stories.

Also, tell me please, why some people still measure game's quality by some features quantity, not by the features quality? How are 20 really well-made dialogue scenes can be worse than 80 poorly made ones? How 4 really interesting abilities can be worse than 100 unbalanced and duplicating ones? Why do some people think that game with great visual part "is always worse than a game with outdated graphics"? Where did all of these strange quality measures came from? Conservatism? Most likely... But conservatism is the engine of stagnation, you know?

My first thought on seeing the topic was wondering what the New Music Express had to do with RPGs

I have to disagree with the suggestion that any option from the first list is enough -choosing between male or female characters in Resident Evil is not enough, nor is the slightly larger selection in Mercenaries or the customisation in Saints row (race in the first game, gender as well in sequels).
in short, (5) is a desirable feature in RPGs but NOT a defining one.

I would narrow it down to 2 distinct ways in which a game can be an RPG

1) the player "acts" out the role of the character making the decisions reflecting what their interpretation of what the character would do based on the character's personality (strategy/tactics based decisions do not normally count)- the decisions can be selected or "free-form", the can be dialogue options, story altering decisions or alternative solutions to a problem.

2) the character's abilities are defined by stats which can be improved as the game progresses -typically allowing customisation allowing the player to choose the character's specialisations.  The stats determine the character's abilities to achieve tasks rather than the player's ability to manipulate the controller.  Strategy and tactics are still down to the player including the strategy of developing the abilities and tactics in their usage.


While the original Mass Effect satisfied rule 2, the sequels did not.
All the Mass Effects had elements of 1 but the implementation was always flawed. In the first game dialogue options were often limited by alignment in a flawed attempt to force consistency (so shooting a xenophobic human in cold blood is apparantly treated as evidence that Shepard is a xenophobe).
The sequels were worse in that the player was not controlling Shepards responses but merely prodding Shepard in one direction and watching how Shepard reacts

[Seival]

spirosz wrote...

Seival wrote...
And game may have just one feature from the first list to be called an RPG game (at least partially).

Curious, Seival.  Would you consider Borderlands an RPG because of it has one aspect of an "RPG" with, levelling, loot, etc.  

I consider any game that has element(s) from the first list as an RPG. The satisfactory amount of actual role playing in a game, however, is strongly subjective matter. I belive you already know my limits. Any game has to have role playing at some capacity to make it to my top five. This is as important for me as great story and great visual/audio part.

Modifié par Seival, 12 janvier 2014 - 02:35 .

[Cyonan]

Seival wrote...
I consider any game that has element(s) from the first list as an RPG. The satisfactory amount of actual role playing in a game, however, is strongly subjective matter. I belive you already know my limits. Any game has to have role playing at some capacity to make it to my top five. This is as important for me as great story and great visual/audio part.

I think the problem here is that damn near everything can be called a RPG under your rules:

> Crysis is a RPG, because I can improve my combat capabilities and choose between stealthy or guns blazing
> Team Fortress is a RPG, because I can choose a class which defines my combat role
> Battlefield is a RPG, because I can also choose classes which defines my combat role
> Counter-Strike is a RPG, because I can choose a weapon which defines my combat role
> Blacklight Retribution is a RPG, because I can choose to be male or female

All of those games are actually FPS games with some customization rather than RPGs. Customization is not exclusive to RPGs.

It's like you baked a nice chocolate cake and insist that it's actually a vanilla cake because you put vanilla icing on a third of the cake.