232 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

I'd still call Mass Effect part RPG(the other part is third person shooter), although I do feel quite restricted by the game at times in terms of choices.

First off, if you want to make any decent paragon or renegade interrupts, then you pretty much have to go full on paragon/renegade.

The morality system in general also really only has 2 paths: Good to the point of stupidity and complete jerk. It would have been nice to have a little more middle ground on things.

That people say "That's my Paragon Shep" suggests that it's not really me playing my character, but rather just me making the choice of if I want to go Paragon or Renegade. It's still a choice, but it's a choice restricted to two options.

That Mass Effect is not an open world game also restricts it. BioWare has a story they want to tell, and ultimately we're going to be going through that story. That's not strictly speaking a bad thing, but it does restrict how you can RP your Shep in Mass Effect games. Everybody's Commander Shepard is going to defeat Saren, get killed by the Collectors and wipe out their base after being revived, then go on to rally the galaxy against the Reapers.

Compare that to a game like Skyrim and I can do a lot more even without the fancy dialogue of Mass Effect. I can have a character who is a merchant, a blacksmith, a thief, an assassin, an explorer, a knight, a mage, and a variety of other options. I don't even need to become the big hero who saves everybody, I can just walk off and go do whatever I want.

and while there is dialogue in the game it's not needed to make those choices. It all comes down to how you play the game.

Both styles have their pros and cons, as does the third style of simply just telling you a story without influence over it(not really for use in RPG games, though).

[dreamgazer]

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

[Sjpelke]

Definition

[spirosz]

Seival wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I've been able to roleplay about four completely different characters in Skyrim because of the open world setting Bethesda was able to flesh out. From the way they approach combat, the character creation, following certain lore traits and how they relate to doing certain quests. Avoiding the main quest line, while still doing everything else. There is a lot to do in there.

This is quantity. Not quality. And open world has nothing to do with this. You could do the same even if the Skyrim would be heavily instanced labyrinth of small playable zones.

Ah, but you see - the open world has everything to do with this because the lore and what the games have been striving for since Morrowind has heavily invested the roleplaying mechanics to dance with open world features.  Have you actually played any of the Elder Scroll games?  So no, you cannot do the same if it was the latter.   

[spirosz]

@Cyonan - Mass Effect advertised itself as part RPG part TPS - right? With the first leaning towards more RPG, the second leaning towards more TPS and the third trying to bring the best of both worlds.

[General TSAR]

(Grabbing Popcorn)

Seival wrote...
Why do some people think that game with great visual part "is always worse than a game with outdated graphics"?

That's a generalization but I'll bite: Gameplay, Plot, Replay Value, Fun.

Which makes a game like Fallout 2 FAR more superior than Beyond Two Souls aka David Kaje's latest dump. 

Where did all of these strange quality measures came from? Conservatism? Most likely... But conservatism is the engine of stagnation, you know?

How many times did you hit your head this day?

Modifié par General TSAR, 07 janvier 2014 - 06:19 .

[ruggly]

So games can't have different styles? I'd consider Mass Effect more of a TPS Action RPG-lite, or Skryim a sandbox RPG. Games can borrow things from other styles, but it won't be fun if they all start being the same style.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

To paraphrase his comment in another thread, if it has at least one RPG element it's an RPG.

[Seival]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

Technically, Remember Me is an action-RPG game. You can develop your character modifying combos which directly affect your combat stile. Diablo games are action-RPGs for the similar reason.

[ruggly]

Remember Me is about as linear as you can get.

[Cyonan]

spirosz wrote...

@Cyonan - Mass Effect advertised itself as part RPG part TPS - right? With the first leaning towards more RPG, the second leaning towards more TPS and the third trying to bring the best of both worlds.

I think officially it's called an "Action RPG" which is a term that I'm not a fan of to begin with.

It feels like that's what they were going with for what way the games were leaning, although I would call ME2 the middle ground in the end. It had reduced build variety, but quite a bit less auto dialogue than ME3 did as well as a few other things like weapon restrictions for classes.

[spirosz]

BECAUSE IT HAS A CERTAIN RPG ELEMENTS DOES NOT MAKE IT AN RPG. I CAN SPRINT IN FIFA AND I CAN SPRINT IN NME DOES THAT MEAN BOTH ARE RPGS? DOES IT? DOES IT SEVIALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

Technically, Remember Me is an action-RPG game. You can develop your character modifying combos which directly affect your combat stile. Diablo games are action-RPGs for the similar reason.

I'm glad your not in the gaming industry

[Cyonan]

Seival wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

Technically, Remember Me is an action-RPG game. You can develop your character modifying combos which directly affect your combat stile. Diablo games are action-RPGs for the similar reason.

Using this reasoning, Crysis is an Action RPG because I can modify my character's suit abilities and weapons which directly affects my combat style.

Actually, using that reasoning damned near everything is an Action RPG.

[naughty99]

Seival wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Seival wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Seival wrote...

More =/= better. 

Not when it comes to choices in a role playing game, IMO.

If there are very few choices, for example an extremely linear game, then there are very limited opportunities to play the role.

I believe that just 2 key choices performed within long enough amazingly realistic and emotional scenes provide user with much better quality of role playing, than 10 key choices performed within poorly made scenes, while these 10 key choices performed within poorly made scenes only provide user with greater quantity of role playing.

I'd agree it's certainly not arithmetic, and you are proposing rather hypothetical scenarios; however, a game consisting primarily of cutscenes, even top notch cutscenes with excellent acting, where you make only two choices in the entire game does not quite sound like it would present an opportunity to play any sort of role. Sounds a bit more like an interactive movie.

Well, let's compare Mass Effect Trilogy to Beyond: Two Souls for example. Most of ME dialogue options are just different lines of behavior that do not affect the story. Beyond doesn't have as much options for different lines of behavior, but it has more key points where your actions (or inactivity) change the flow of the story (sometimes even removing or adding the entire episodes).

Comparing these two games, I believe that the interactive-move provided me with much better quality of roleplaying, and told the story much better in general, than a regular RPG game. The interactive-move had less amount of actual gameplay, but this is just an interactive-movie genre feature.

Haven't played Beyond: Two Souls, so I can't comment on this one.

If the story is more compelling, it may be a more enjoyable experience overall; however, the parts of the game where you are passively watching a cutscene is not the part where you are playing the role.

You are playing the role when you are actively making choices, taking actions you think your character would take, going to the places you think your character would choose to go, attacking or befriending the NPC the way you think your character would behave, choosing dialogue options you think your character would choose, etc. 

[ruggly]

spirosz wrote...

BECAUSE IT HAS A CERTAIN RPG ELEMENTS DOES NOT MAKE IT AN RPG. I CAN SPRINT IN FIFA AND I CAN SPRINT IN NME DOES THAT MEAN BOTH ARE RPGS? DOES IT? DOES IT SEVIALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?

Running?  Mirror's Edge is now an RPG.

[Seival]

spirosz wrote...

Seival wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I've been able to roleplay about four completely different characters in Skyrim because of the open world setting Bethesda was able to flesh out. From the way they approach combat, the character creation, following certain lore traits and how they relate to doing certain quests. Avoiding the main quest line, while still doing everything else. There is a lot to do in there.

This is quantity. Not quality. And open world has nothing to do with this. You could do the same even if the Skyrim would be heavily instanced labyrinth of small playable zones.

Ah, but you see - the open world has everything to do with this because the lore and what the games have been striving for since Morrowind has heavily invested the roleplaying mechanics to dance with open world features.  Have you actually played any of the Elder Scroll games?  So no, you cannot do the same if it was the latter.   

Yes, I played Morrowind and Oblivion. Each game bored me in matter of hours just because of the open world, and how it interfered with role playing and storytelling. Spending so much time on pointless wandering around... After these two games I decided that I will never try to roleplay in games like these again... Well, I might try TW3, and I really hope it will not be Oblivion-like.

[Liamv2]

Remember me is an action game with RPG elements not a RPG. The game doesn't even identify itself as a RPG.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I don't agree with Op *tries to keep his popularity* but by some people definitions of RPGs here, Games like Heroes of Might and Magic series and Dawn of War and The Sims series are RPGs too...

Also I like some stagnation. I'm sick and tired of all these changes that happen so soon.

Modifié par Kaiser Arian, 07 janvier 2014 - 06:21 .

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

Technically, Remember Me is an action-RPG game. You can develop your character modifying combos which directly affect your combat stile. Diablo games are action-RPGs for the similar reason.

I'm glad your not in the gaming industry

But I am, actually. Quality assurance. More than 10 years in total

[Seival]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

I don't agree with Op *tries to keep his popularity* but by some people definitions of RPGs here, Games like Heroes of Might and Magic series and Dawn of War and The Sims series are RPGs too...

Also I like some stagnation. I'm sick and tired of all these changes that happen so soon.

Like some stagnation? Unbelievable...

[dreamgazer]

Seival wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival, do you still consider Remember Me to be an RPG?

Technically, Remember Me is an action-RPG game.

Technically, it's a straight action game with a single customization mechanic. 

You can develop your character modifying combos which directly affect your combat stile.

Do you realize how many other games this applies to, and would thus make them "action-RPGs"?

Diablo games are action-RPGs for the similar reason.

Oh, sweetheart. No. You're completely overlooking everything else that actually does make the Diablo games action-RPGs, from inventory and strategy to exploration.