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[EmperorSahlertz]

azarhal wrote...
I agree with Jedi Master of Orion here. There is nothing Tevinter in any of the Brecillian Forest ruins, everything is elven. It's like you are believing Duncan saying the Eluvian is a Tevinter artifact when it's not. In-game characters are unreliable when it comes to history.

So why exactly would the ancient Elves build something in a decidedly Tevinter architecture?

The presence of Elven artifacts within a Tevinter ruin, is not proof of the Tevinter Ruin actually being Elven. What it is at most proof of is co-existance, what it is more likely proof of, is that the Tevitners stored Elven artifacts.

[Master Warder Z_]

I thought the Imperium used their magic to make the earth swallow it; But beyond that why would i care to trek into a long dead civilization no doubt plagued with demons and spirits and what have you?

If it isn't a quest requirement i wouldn't step foot into that dead city.

[AltanIV]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

azarhal wrote...
I agree with Jedi Master of Orion here. There is nothing Tevinter in any of the Brecillian Forest ruins, everything is elven. It's like you are believing Duncan saying the Eluvian is a Tevinter artifact when it's not. In-game characters are unreliable when it comes to history.

So why exactly would the ancient Elves build something in a decidedly Tevinter architecture?

The presence of Elven artifacts within a Tevinter ruin, is not proof of the Tevinter Ruin actually being Elven. What it is at most proof of is co-existance, what it is more likely proof of, is that the Tevitners stored Elven artifacts.

devs laziness ? 

Also it is not mentioned anywhere that this particular architecture was tevinter in origin, as someone (don't remember who, sorry) said it was similar to the circle's tower architecture which, as it so happens was built by Avvars (I always considered avvars to be a human culture) with the help of the dwarves. As such, the ruins you consider as "Tevinter" in origin could very well have been commonly built by Avvar and elves (perhaps even with the help of the dwarves, as the avvars are known to have had good relations with dwarves - don't know if they still do but that's not he point. If you remember well enough Vigil's Keep is directly connected to the deep roads and is Avvar in origin, or is believed to be so. (Edit : to be more precise it was built uppon Avvar's ruins)

True, Morrigan says that the ruins look like Tevinter ruins (or at least she believe they do), but who's to say what Tevinter ruins look like ? Even if they did use the same kind of architecture back home who's to say if they created this kind of architecture or if they stole it from other cultures ? After all the conquerors always write history.  Considering that could people have been lead to believe, with time, that this is indeed Tevinter's architecture ? 

I won't say that I'm not speculating, of course I do, but that's part of a story, it's not always completely written and nothing is ever fixed, and as far as I'm concerned most stories are open to imagination. 

As for the ruins in the pic, it could be part of the long lost Arlathan or it could be what the inquisitor believes to be Arlathan's remains.

Modifié par AltanIV, 08 janvier 2014 - 12:36 .

[whykikyouwhy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

So hey... Could Arlathan actually be the Black City? Like the Magisters actually sent the city to the Fade, it got corrupted, and later the Magisters revisited it and got corrupted too and brought the taint back with them?

And maybe that is just the Fade half of the city and the physical half really is in a secret part of the Deep Roads. Maybe the Darkspawn originated from the sunken city of Arlathan, considering the Darkspawn started underground. Or maybe the ancient section that the red lyrium and the idol came from WAS Arlathan and we just didn't know it... Would explain why the place is so different from typical Dwarven-made places.

I admit, I'm throwing a lot of random guesses right now.

I did once have this half-baked theory that the Black City was indeed Arlathan, from which the Elves used to live, and that the Tevinters "buried" it by sealing it off from the rest of the world and the Fade, and they did so to contain some great evil. This of course meant that the ancient Tevinter was not all that bad, but something went wrong along the way.

Wouldn't really fit, but could be sort of a good twist.

Gonna dip a toe in the speculative waters here... (and trying not to create a quote tree, but I wanted to touch upon both of the above comments) -

Perhaps the city wasn't sent to the Fade exactly, but it's from the Fade that it was "conquered" and "buried." Physically, it's sunken, but metaphysically/spiritually/magically, it's also trapped in and by the Fade. I don't know that this fits into the scheme of magic in Thedas, but maybe the shadow of Arlathan was somehow separated from the physical, the whole was split and torn asunder. This might explain both the existence of the City as a floating entity within the Fade itself, and why the magisters needed a blood ritual of epic proportion to break into it.

Admittedly, it's a very hazy idea at best, because so many pieces are still missing. But in the grand theme of sunken/buried things, of mirrors and reflections, there might be a morsel of plausability, no?

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 08 janvier 2014 - 12:34 .

[MisterJB]

For a civilization swallowed by darkness, that sure is a lot of sunlight.
Seriously tough, there is a bit of a disconnect between the caption and the picture.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

For a civilization swallowed by darkness, that sure is a lot of sunlight.
Seriously tough, there is a bit of a disconnect between the caption and the picture.

Maybe it's a metaphorical darkness?

[Hellion Rex]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

So hey... Could Arlathan actually be the Black City? Like the Magisters actually sent the city to the Fade, it got corrupted, and later the Magisters revisited it and got corrupted too and brought the taint back with them?

And maybe that is just the Fade half of the city and the physical half really is in a secret part of the Deep Roads. Maybe the Darkspawn originated from the sunken city of Arlathan, considering the Darkspawn started underground. Or maybe the ancient section that the red lyrium and the idol came from WAS Arlathan and we just didn't know it... Would explain why the place is so different from typical Dwarven-made places.

I admit, I'm throwing a lot of random guesses right now.

I did once have this half-baked theory that the Black City was indeed Arlathan, from which the Elves used to live, and that the Tevinters "buried" it by sealing it off from the rest of the world and the Fade, and they did so to contain some great evil. This of course meant that the ancient Tevinter was not all that bad, but something went wrong along the way.

Wouldn't really fit, but could be sort of a good twist.

Gonna dip a toe in the speculative waters here... (and trying not to create a quote tree, but I wanted to touch upon both of the above comments) -

Perhaps the city wasn't sent to the Fade exactly, but it's from the Fade that it was "conquered" and "buried." Physically, it's sunken, but metaphysically/spiritually/magically, it's also trapped in and by the Fade. I don't know that this fits into the scheme of magic in Thedas, but maybe the shadow of Arlathan was somehow separated from the physical, the whole was split and torn asunder. This might explain both the existence of the City as a floating entity within the Fade itself, and why the magisters needed a blood ritual of epic proportion to break into it.

Admittedly, it's a very hazy idea at best, because so many pieces are still missing. But in the grand theme of sunken/buried things, of mirrors and reflections, there might be a morsel of plausability, no?

Actually...it's not that hazy. Remember the Blackmarsh experienced something similar. It had a presence both within the Fade, and also within the material world.

[AltanIV]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps the city wasn't sent to the Fade exactly, but it's from the Fade that it was "conquered" and "buried." Physically, it's sunken, but metaphysically/spiritually/magically, it's also trapped in and by the Fade. I don't know that this fits into the scheme of magic in Thedas, but maybe the shadow of Arlathan was somehow separated from the physical, the whole was split and torn asunder. This might explain both the existence of the City as a floating entity within the Fade itself, and why the magisters needed a blood ritual of epic proportion to break into it.

Admittedly, it's a very hazy idea at best, because so many pieces are still missing. But in the grand theme of sunken/buried things, of mirrors and reflections, there might be a morsel of plausability, no?

I'd concur with that considering Uthenera and what little we know of it. The so called "Slumbering Elders" could be dreamers, staying in a state of Endless Dream. Some are known to have woken up after centuries or so says the legends. As such Arlathan could have been, as other elven cities been partly faded.. Still at best it could just be be speculation, but it's not completely impossible is it ? 

Edit : and considering the Black Marsh as eluvianix said.

Modifié par AltanIV, 08 janvier 2014 - 12:52 .

[Dr. Doctor]

MisterJB wrote...

For a civilization swallowed by darkness, that sure is a lot of sunlight.
Seriously tough, there is a bit of a disconnect between the caption and the picture.

Considering how much blood magic it would take to sink an entire city into the depths of the earth there's no telling what's inside there. 

[Ponendus]

This is the most exciting news I've had so far. I was so hoping that Arlathan would feature in the series soon, and hopefully this means it will. I love me some elven lore!

[Ponendus]

Filament wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

 "The ultimate hope for a concept artist is for the final in-game art to surpass its concept art. That has definitely the case with this image. Come Inquisition’s release, I think everyone will agree that the in-game version makes this image look restrained and quaint. "

Nice.

That quote is from Matt Rhodes the concept artist. I guess we can take that as confirmation we will definitely get to see it in game! Awesome!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Alright, so I went back and finally found the exact account of the Arcane Warrior to try to figure out the whole deal there. He does say that the ruin was build by humans. However, his story also indicates it was a site of elven civilization. He was an elf that describes the ruin as a place where the elders came to sleep. He himself was also a part of the order of Arcane Warriors and did battle against "the terrible presence" which killed both elves and humans there. He escaped by trapping himself in the phylactery expecting to be rescued but no-one ever came. Exactly what the terrible presence was is kept completely ambiguous. He doesn't remember what the war was that destroyed the place, he speculates it could have been a war with other humans or something else.

As such I doubt very much it was build by Imperium if it was also a remnant of the Elvhenen. Or if it was build by Tevinters, they must have been some sort of outcast or exiles or something. Not unlike the dwarves of Cal'hadash who sheltered the exiles from Arlathan, for instance. Perhaps the armies of the Imperium eventually found and destroyed them.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 janvier 2014 - 01:25 .

[Hrungr]

Ponendus wrote...

Filament wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

 "The ultimate hope for a concept artist is for the final in-game art to surpass its concept art. That has definitely the case with this image. Come Inquisition’s release, I think everyone will agree that the in-game version makes this image look restrained and quaint. "

Nice.

That quote is from Matt Rhodes the concept artist. I guess we can take that as confirmation we will definitely get to see it in game! Awesome!

Indeed!

Though admittedly I'm still surprised, the game is covering a lot more ground than they've been suggesting lately (Ferelden to Orlais). And if we are heading that far north, I wonder what else we'll get to see...

[Reznore57]

I doubt it's Arlathan.Probably a building dating back to the days of Arlathan.Afterall the elves were supposed to populate all of Thedas.
Wonder what will push the Inquisitor to go there.I think it's probably in the forest south of the Dales...
I guess there's not a lot of people living there , so even with a fade tear ..it wouldn't be high priority.

I tend to think Arlathan and the golden city were linked , and the ancient elves had massive knowledge about the veil and its creation.Also think their civilisation was destroyed because they crossed some line concerning magic.And someone push the humans to destroy them.
Anyway I'm pretty thrilled to go there , even if all my crazy theories turns out to be wrong.

About Tevinter/Elven building , in the lore there's hints humans and elves lived in peace for some time.So it's not surprising one culture would have some impact on the other.

[azarhal]

AltanIV wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

azarhal wrote...
I agree with Jedi Master of Orion here. There is nothing Tevinter in any of the Brecillian Forest ruins, everything is elven. It's like you are believing Duncan saying the Eluvian is a Tevinter artifact when it's not. In-game characters are unreliable when it comes to history.

So why exactly would the ancient Elves build something in a decidedly Tevinter architecture?

The presence of Elven artifacts within a Tevinter ruin, is not proof of the Tevinter Ruin actually being Elven. What it is at most proof of is co-existance, what it is more likely proof of, is that the Tevitners stored Elven artifacts.

devs laziness ? 

Also it is not mentioned anywhere that this particular architecture was tevinter in origin, as someone (don't remember who, sorry) said it was similar to the circle's tower architecture which, as it so happens was built by Avvars (I always considered avvars to be a human culture) with the help of the dwarves. As such, the ruins you consider as "Tevinter" in origin could very well have been commonly built by Avvar and elves (perhaps even with the help of the dwarves, as the avvars are known to have had good relations with dwarves - don't know if they still do but that's not he point. If you remember well enough Vigil's Keep is directly connected to the deep roads and is Avvar in origin, or is believed to be so. (Edit : to be more precise it was built uppon Avvar's ruins)

True, Morrigan says that the ruins look like Tevinter ruins (or at least she believe they do), but who's to say what Tevinter ruins look like ? Even if they did use the same kind of architecture back home who's to say if they created this kind of architecture or if they stole it from other cultures ? After all the conquerors always write history.  Considering that could people have been lead to believe, with time, that this is indeed Tevinter's architecture ? 

I won't say that I'm not speculating, of course I do, but that's part of a story, it's not always completely written and nothing is ever fixed, and as far as I'm concerned most stories are open to imagination. 

As for the ruins in the pic, it could be part of the long lost Arlathan or it could be what the inquisitor believes to be Arlathan's remains.

I'm the one who mentioned the Circle Tower earlier. Also the dwarven connection exist in the Brecilian ruins of the Dalish origin, sort of. If you tell Duncan that you want to stay (you really have to argue), you can go behind the Eluvian in a tunnel that end with a strange statue. If you click the statue, text pop up talking about dwarven trade that didn't last long.

BioWare also reused the statues of Andruil,Sylaise and Ghilan'nain (check the page to see what they look like) in those ruins (including the circle tower). So either there was lazyness, Dalish are using Tevinter statue to represent their gods (oh the ironie) or these are real representation of their gods and they are everywhere in supposed "Tevinter ruins".

[Ianamus]

I was thinking that it could just be an Elven ruin in the Arbor wilds... but the tropical flora is making seriously consider that this actually is the Arlathan forest.

I also only just noticed the bloody giant mountain in the background. The white spire maybe? Or perhaps this is the Tirashan, which would explain the more tropical looking plants and mountain ranges in the background. 

Modifié par EJ107, 08 janvier 2014 - 02:31 .

[Knight of Dane]

MasterScribe wrote...

Nice concept art. Let's hope it looks great in-game, if it appears at all.

It's confirmed. That's why we're talking about it.

[Ponendus]

 David Gaider concurs that the in-game version of the concept art is indeed even more awesome than the concept art. 

[Knight of Dane]

^

MasterScribe wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Nice concept art. Let's hope it looks great in-game, if it appears at all.

It's confirmed. That's why we're talking about it.

Concept art is not a confirmation. They might scrap the location. Or use it in a later game.

That. They said the in-game version is much more dope. That's pretty confirmativeish. 

[MrMrPendragon]

Well, there's still the issue of "elves not having their own land" (despite Dalish Warden giving them one)

So I think Arlathan (and the surrounding area) would be a solution to that problem.

Although concept art isn't really something you can lean on when it comes to game aspects.

[Knight of Dane]

MasterScribe wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Nice concept art. Let's hope it looks great in-game, if it appears at all.

It's confirmed. That's why we're talking about it.

Concept art is not a confirmation. They might scrap the location. Or use it in a later game.

That. They said the in-game version is much more dope. That's pretty confirmativeish. 

Sigh. I'm just trying to be cautiously optimistic. Nothing is set in stone until the game goes gold.

It's pretty set in stone when a developer says it will appear.

Wether or not it will be any good is anyones guess. But that's not what it was about.