285 réponses à ce sujet

[rekn2]

i think the biggest sl7ap to "artistic integrity" would be to do a reboot

[AlanC9]

rekn2 wrote...

i think the biggest sl7ap to "artistic integrity" would be to do a reboot

That's probsbly not a good way to make a case for a reboot.

[windsea]

i never got why people think the three ending will have a major effect on a sequel's story outside of dialog and background info. Bioware tend to make all roads lead to their story.

for example.

1. you can saving or kill the council but neither way gets you their help in ME2 or is the reason for their help in ME3

2. Killing the rachni queen does not keep them from being in ME3

3. Destroying the collector base does not prevent Cerberus from getting tech from it.

4. not doing the ME2 DLC will just have someone else do it.lair of the shadow broker liara does it on her own and with Arrival marines will do it, if i remember correctly.

5. ME2 party members being dead does not keep the side quest they would be in from happening. even Mordiin has a replacement if he died (Padok Wiks)

I'm guessing we will be "talking" about the lack of effect the endings had on the story after a sequel. .

Modifié par windsea, 12 janvier 2014 - 06:14 .

[Jiskathe kips]

I hope it's another trilogy in the making.
That way the player can enjoy more of the story than just the 1 game.
And it gives more connection to the main character.
And maybe a small cameo of the old crew + shepard if he/she survives ME3
But it shouldn't be an episodic game. like the walking dead..
Just 3 full games With a lot of options

Modifié par Jiskathe kips, 12 janvier 2014 - 06:01 .

[commander root657]

windsea wrote...

i never got why people think the three ending will have a major effect on a sequel's story outside of dialog and background info. Bioware tend to make all roads lead to their story.

for example.

1. you can saving or kill the council but neither way gets you their help in ME2 or is the reason for their help in ME3

2. Killing the rachni queen does not keep them from being in ME3

3. Destroying the collector base does not prevent Cerberus from getting tech from it.

4. not doing the ME2 DLC will just have someone else do it.lair of the shadow broker liara does it on her own and with Arrival marines will do it, if i remember correctly.

5. ME2 party members being dead does not keep the side quest they would be in from happening. even Mordiin has a replacement if he died (Padok Wiks)

I'm guessing we will be "talking" about the lack of effect the endings had on the story after a sequel. .

The Geth and EDI are dead after destroy, the Reapers are still around in synthesis where everyone is green, and in control where they are controlled by an AI with Shepard's memories, and are still trying to prevent organics being destroyed by synthetics, thus they  have no reason to leave the galaxy. The Reapers' survival is what will have the most impact as any conflict that couldn't be solved by them will lead to a deus ex machina.

[ZeroPhoenix94]

As much as I would love future Mass Effect games, I think it would just be better if they left the series how it is. You know, focus on a new ip or something. I just want to be introduced to a new setting with new lore to be immersed in. Since ME4 is pretty much confirmed though, I think it should be a sequel. I have faith in BioWare that they will make it work somehow.

[windsea]

commander root657 wrote...

The Geth and EDI are dead after destroy, the Reapers are still around in synthesis where everyone is green, and in control where they are controlled by an AI with Shepard's memories, and are still trying to prevent organics being destroyed by synthetics, thus they  have no reason to leave the galaxy. The Reapers' survival is what will have the most impact as any conflict that couldn't be solved by them will lead to a deus ex machina.

yes, but it will not have a impact on the story is what I'm saying.

The Geth and Edi could not show up or have a background role. Think the rachni or any of the minor races like the hanar, elcor, volus, or so on.

the reaper could have return to dark space until their relationship with everyone is less hostile, or be out patrol as everyone's army are lacking in numbers and ships from the reaper war, or the story could just not need major fire power for example tracking down Saren in mass effect. Also i doubt that people will want or allow the reapers in their conflict too.

everyone growing green could just be everyone with cybernetics which already exist in ME universe so the enemy can still have them in the other two ending meaning no real effect on their combat ability or story. and the AI as I already said will most likely not have a big role.

it is all about finding the work arounds.

[Jiskathe kips]

I would like 2 see the N7 process.
Maybe it's Vega's story next.
Nobody told how you get in N7
people are prob gonna hate me for saying this

[Vrin]

Helios969 wrote...

Doesn't necessarily have to be a prequel or sequel. You can go parallel reality route...or have it occurring in parallel to Shepard's actions. You could do the "lost in space" theme having the Alliance R&Ding alternative FTL travel that goes wrong pulling a science vessel or fleet of ships into our nearest neighboring galaxy. Mass Effect: Andromeda. You keep humans in the loop and introduce a whole new world full of aliens and assorted conflicts. Maybe a few different factions vying for power wooing the humans to tip the balance...that would create some great RPG elements. Lots of things you can do without canonizing ME3 ending I guess is my point.

Not that it really matters. We'll get what we get, and most of us will step up to play...and probably grow to love it like most all other Bioware games. I think ultimately...eventually, Shepard's story will get reset. Hopefully with a tighter and more consistent story and better overall game play through the entire series (just can't play ME1 anymore.)

Here's the problem with making it a parallel to Shepard's story:

No matter what the story for ME 4 is, if it's in parallel to Shepard it's less important than Shepard's story.  

It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.

[windsea]

Jiskathe kips wrote...

I would like 2 see the N7 process.
Maybe it's Vega's story next.
Nobody told how you get in N7
people are prob gonna hate me for saying this

i can't say i want Vega as the pc (unless in a comic or something) or to go backwards with shepard but having the new PC in N7 program at the start of the game would be cool maybe have Vega there at the same time as a link to the past games.

Modifié par windsea, 13 janvier 2014 - 10:11 .

[Finlandiaprkl]

Vrin wrote...
It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.

Sequel is possible. It's actually easier than people seem to imagine. Why would they have to make 4 different games? Seriously. The ending has no serious effects on galaxy in aftermath (other than the utter destruction of the relay system). On average, the same thing happens. Reapers lose, galaxy recovers, reaper tech becomes more familiar.

Only problem with the sequel is, that what is the threat? There is no real threats in the post-reaper galaxy, since the Alliance is the major unified power in post-RW galaxy. So, what it is? Extra-galactic invasion? Why should we even have a galactic problem in the first place? Couldn't just Firefly-esque setting do?

And yay for prequel. But nay for Rachni Wars/KR, since that is so far back, that the humanity wasn't even a space-faring race back then. Prequel would need to happen at the time bethween early 2160's to late 2170's.

[windsea]

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

Vrin wrote...
It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.

Sequel is possible. It's actually easier than people seem to imagine. Why would they have to make 4 different games? Seriously. The ending has no serious effects on galaxy in aftermath (other than the utter destruction of the relay system). On average, the same thing happens. Reapers lose, galaxy recovers, reaper tech becomes more familiar.

Only problem with the sequel is, that what is the threat? There is no real threats in the post-reaper galaxy, since the Alliance is the major unified power in post-RW galaxy. So, what it is? Extra-galactic invasion? Why should we even have a galactic problem in the first place? Couldn't just Firefly-esque setting do?

And yay for prequel. But nay for Rachni Wars/KR, since that is so far back, that the humanity wasn't even a space-faring race back then. Prequel would need to happen at the time bethween early 2160's to late 2170's.

i agree, and a smaller story will be more likely if they are trying to not make another "shepard" too. 

[Vrin]

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

Vrin wrote...
It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.

Sequel is possible. It's actually easier than people seem to imagine. Why would they have to make 4 different games? Seriously. The ending has no serious effects on galaxy in aftermath (other than the utter destruction of the relay system). On average, the same thing happens. Reapers lose, galaxy recovers, reaper tech becomes more familiar.

Only problem with the sequel is, that what is the threat? There is no real threats in the post-reaper galaxy, since the Alliance is the major unified power in post-RW galaxy. So, what it is? Extra-galactic invasion? Why should we even have a galactic problem in the first place? Couldn't just Firefly-esque setting do?

And yay for prequel. But nay for Rachni Wars/KR, since that is so far back, that the humanity wasn't even a space-faring race back then. Prequel would need to happen at the time bethween early 2160's to late 2170's.

The galaxy isn't much different?  

In Destroy, there are no more Reapers. The galaxy continues as "normal" but with all existing AI wiped out (no Geth).  relays are destroyed and with no reapers around to fix them presumably they stay that way. Shepard lives.

In Control. there are Reapers but Shepard has stopped their attack.  The galaxy continues as normal. relays are destroyed but rebuilt by Shep controlled Reapers, Geth still exist.  Shepard "dies".

In Synthesis the organics and synthetics meld together.  They are now all part of the Reaper collective conscious meaning peace across the galaxy (all are part of the one).  Potentially immortal beings (stated by EDI in extended cut post-victory debrief). Relays are destroyed but presumably be rebuilt.  Shepard dies.

In Refuse, the attack continues and the Galaxy is purged as it was in every previous cycle.  No Humans, Asari, Quarians, Krogan etc...

In some, the relay exist. In others, they don't.  In one, we all live together in (literally) perfect harmony.  In another, nothing lives at all.

I don't see how they can be more different.  

Lastly, Bioware moved heaven and earth, taking more scorn and derision due to their choice to not establish a canon ending than any gaming company has ever taken.  To do a true sequel, they'd have to make that choice.  There's no way they're doing that.  Not after what they went through to not do it.

Edit: Posted in a hurry - added some more detail

Modifié par Vrin, 14 janvier 2014 - 02:20 .

[Comrade Wakizashi]

I agree with Vrin on this one. If there would be a sequel, first there needs to be made a decision about what the canon ending of ME3 is. And that's a pretty tough decision that would ****** people off no matter what is chosen.

I already found the canon endings in the Command and Conquer franchise to be bothersome sometimes (always the GDI winning in C&C or the Allies in Red Alert while I play Brotherhood of Nod and Soviets all the time), to give but one example. This would be even worse in a Mass Effect universe.

Modifié par Comrade Wakizashi, 14 janvier 2014 - 01:28 .

[Chashan]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

I agree with Vrin on this one. If there would be a sequel, first there needs to be made a decision about what the canon ending of ME3 is. And that's a pretty tough decision that would ****** people off no matter what is chosen.

I already found the canon endings in the Command and Conquer franchise to be bothersome sometimes (always the GDI winning in C&C or the Allies in Red Alert while I play Brotherhood of Nod and Soviets all the time), to give but one example. This would be even worse in a Mass Effect universe.

Not wrong. Although, in their cases, the games at least provided a distinct campaign for both sides. And were done in such a way that cutting ties at the end of a campaign and calling it a day is rather easy.
It's why Nod winning in Tiberian Sun makes for a better, more satisfying end to the franchise than wtf followed after, particularly in "Tiberian Twilight". The precious little 'achieved' there (Kane's ascension) is already done in TS on the side to boot.


I don't think it's a route ME3 can take all that well. The only back-door they could reasonably use is the frame set with the stargazer-scene of the "Shepard-arc" as the stuff of myth, hence avoiding the issues that 'canonization' would bring.

[DoomsdayDevice]

liggy002 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I have no freaking clue what they could possibly do with the next game.

Still, even after playing all the DLC, my ME3 still ends with "It's getting late, but okay... One more story." (about "the Shepard") I'm still not sure what that's supposed to mean.

It means "Buy DLC for Mass Effect 3."

Yeah but see, it says this at the end of the game, even after you've played all the DLC. Also, the DLC isn't exactly "one more story".

[Vrin]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

I agree with Vrin on this one. If there would be a sequel, first there needs to be made a decision about what the canon ending of ME3 is. And that's a pretty tough decision that would ****** people off no matter what is chosen.

I already found the canon endings in the Command and Conquer franchise to be bothersome sometimes (always the GDI winning in C&C or the Allies in Red Alert while I play Brotherhood of Nod and Soviets all the time), to give but one example. This would be even worse in a Mass Effect universe.

It's not just that they'd need to make a choice.  Think about how much scorn they received by NOT making a canon ending choice.  To make a sequel they'd have to say "we took all that scorn for nothing".

Not. Gonna. Happen.

[Vrin]

Chashan wrote:

I don't think it's a route ME3 can take all that well. The only back-door they could reasonably use is the frame set with the stargazer-scene of the "Shepard-arc" as the stuff of myth, hence avoiding the issues that 'canonization' would bring.

They can't even do that.  In Synthesis, the organics and synthetics merge creating some type of hybrid.  Anything set in the future would have to take that into account (or not, depending).

Think about it this way:  Is the Stargazer an organic or a hybrid?  

[Chashan]

Vrin wrote...

They can't even do that.  In Synthesis, the organics and synthetics merge creating some type of hybrid.  Anything set in the future would have to take that into account (or not, depending).

Think about it this way:  Is the Stargazer an organic or a hybrid?  

Are we made of flesh or of star-dust?



It's a philosophical question that hardly needs to be front and centre in everyone's mind. All I'm saying is, regardless of finish taken it ends at this scene which implies that fact and fiction about "the Shepard" has blurred to the point it's more of a legend, or even myth.
Fair enough state to wipe the slate clean and start anew.

[Vrin]

Chashan wrote...

Vrin wrote...

They can't even do that.  In Synthesis, the organics and synthetics merge creating some type of hybrid.  Anything set in the future would have to take that into account (or not, depending).

Think about it this way:  Is the Stargazer an organic or a hybrid?  

Are we made of flesh or of star-dust?



It's a philosophical question that hardly needs to be front and centre in everyone's mind. All I'm saying is, regardless of finish taken it ends at this scene which implies that fact and fiction about "the Shepard" has blurred to the point it's more of a legend, or even myth.
Fair enough state to wipe the slate clean and start anew.

It's not a philosophical question.  It's a one or the other or deus ex machina.  Either Stargazer is organic, a hybrid (based on Synthesis ending) or something happened between Shepard's choice and Stargazer quote to change him into something else all together.

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.

[AlanC9]

Vrin wrote...

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.

So why not do a canon ending? While Destroy fans are often rabidly intolerant of the other endings, the reverse isn't true.

[Chashan]

Vrin wrote...

It's not a philosophical question.  It's a one or the other or deus ex machina.  Either Stargazer is organic, a hybrid (based on Synthesis ending) or something happened between Shepard's choice and Stargazer quote to change him into something else all together.

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.

Or one setup that allows room for the various interpretations people have come up with as regards the finale to unfold, depending on your view. As is, they do allow for that and I'll admit it is one of its few, far-flung pro's.

Personally, BW wouldn't do themselves any favor touching the thorny issue that the ME3-finale is more than is bare-bones necessary.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vrin wrote...

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.

So why not do a canon ending? While Destroy fans are often rabidly intolerant of the other endings, the reverse isn't true.

Are you sure you aren't associating "often rabidly intolerant" with the sheer number of people who like Destroy?  There may be more intolerant Destroy fans, but that could simply be because there are more overall Destroy fans. 

At any rate, despite Destroy being by far the most popular, it is not universally loved.  That alone should be enough to not make it canon.

[Vrin]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vrin wrote...

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.

So why not do a canon ending? While Destroy fans are often rabidly intolerant of the other endings, the reverse isn't true.

Well, they certainly COULD do a canon ending.  I just don't see how they will choose to do it after all the crap they took for NOT choosing one when doing so would easily doable.  It's like they'd say "Ok you know all the crap the gaming community gave us for not committing to an ending? Well, three years later here it is".

That doesn't seem like something they'd do to me.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Ironically, by far the easiest way for them to do a direct sequel is IT.

Not that I think they will actually do this, but it is actually the only solution that works easily without canonizing anything.

Endings didn't happen, and the result of the final choice simply determines whether Shepard became indoctrinated / died or not. Only (high EMS/breath scene) destroy could continue the story.

Of course that would mean the Reapers weren't destroyed, and they'd still have to be defeated.

I'd love it, but it doesn't seem like Bioware's moving in this direction.