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#101
Vrin

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Chashan wrote...

Vrin wrote...

It's not a philosophical question.  It's a one or the other or deus ex machina.  Either Stargazer is organic, a hybrid (based on Synthesis ending) or something happened between Shepard's choice and Stargazer quote to change him into something else all together.

In any case, the decision Shepard made would be known.  If it's known and stated that's a canon ending.  If it's known and unstated, that's a big time cop out.


Or one setup that allows room for the various interpretations people have come up with as regards the finale to unfold, depending on your view. As is, they do allow for that and I'll admit it is one of its few, far-flung pro's.

Personally, BW wouldn't do themselves any favor touching the thorny issue that the ME3-finale is more than is bare-bones necessary.


If you played Dragon Age: Origins, you know that while there are many different races / classes with different origin stories, they all eventually wind up being recruited by Duncan and arrive at Ostagar to watch King Cailan fight the Darkspawn.  All roads lead to Ostagar, as it were.

The only way I can see a true sequel working is if something similar happens. An event takes place in the future and no matter what you choose - Destroy, Control, Synthesis and Refusal - you wind up having to deal with the same "something".

Of course, if you chose Refusal there would be no humans (or asari, quarian, salarian etc..) as the cycle would have been completed.  Not sure how that would work.

#102
Vrin

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Ironically, by far the easiest way for them to do a direct sequel is IT.

Not that I think they will actually do this, but it is actually the only solution that works easily without canonizing anything.

Endings didn't happen, and the result of the final choice simply determines whether Shepard became indoctrinated / died or not. Only (high EMS/breath scene) destroy could continue the story.

Of course that would mean the Reapers weren't destroyed, and they'd still have to be defeated.

I'd love it, but it doesn't seem like Bioware's moving in this direction.


Because IT should have been the ending all along but that's another thread entirely.  

You're 100% right.  From a storyline perspective, IT is the only way the story can move forward.  Nothing else makes sense.

You're also right that there's no way they'll do that.

Modifié par Vrin, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:24 .


#103
Chashan

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Vrin wrote...


If you played Dragon Age: Origins, you know that while there are many different races / classes with different origin stories, they all eventually wind up being recruited by Duncan and arrive at Ostagar to watch King Cailan fight the Darkspawn.  All roads lead to Ostagar, as it were.

The only way I can see a true sequel working is if something similar happens. An event takes place in the future and no matter what you choose - Destroy, Control, Synthesis and Refusal - you wind up having to deal with the same "something".

Of course, if you chose Refusal there would be no humans (or asari, quarian, salarian etc..) as the cycle would have been completed.  Not sure how that would work.


Which is a good enough premise to start with, as well.

That civilization as Shepards' cycle knows it ends in Refusal is clear, invariable extinction of every species is not a foregone conclusion however, sketchy as its details are. A type of ambiguity I, personally, like.

Modifié par Chashan, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:32 .


#104
Vrin

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Chashan wrote...

Vrin wrote...


If you played Dragon Age: Origins, you know that while there are many different races / classes with different origin stories, they all eventually wind up being recruited by Duncan and arrive at Ostagar to watch King Cailan fight the Darkspawn.  All roads lead to Ostagar, as it were.

The only way I can see a true sequel working is if something similar happens. An event takes place in the future and no matter what you choose - Destroy, Control, Synthesis and Refusal - you wind up having to deal with the same "something".

Of course, if you chose Refusal there would be no humans (or asari, quarian, salarian etc..) as the cycle would have been completed.  Not sure how that would work.


Which is a good enough premise to start with, as well.

That civilization as Shepards' cycle knows it ends in Refusal is clear, invariable extinction of every species is not a foregone conclusion however, sketchy as its details are. A type of ambiguity I, personally, like.


Thinking about it some more...

If Refusal, no space faring races (Human, Asari, Quarian etc...).
If Synthesis, all space faring races live (and live immortally as they are merged with Reaper tech)

Not sure how that conundrum gets resolved except by big time deus ex machina / retcon.

As I think about it, only choosing a Canon ending (or Indoctrination Theory) lets the story progress as one solid universe.

#105
Farangbaa

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Vrin wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Ironically, by far the easiest way for them to do a direct sequel is IT.

Not that I think they will actually do this, but it is actually the only solution that works easily without canonizing anything.

Endings didn't happen, and the result of the final choice simply determines whether Shepard became indoctrinated / died or not. Only (high EMS/breath scene) destroy could continue the story.

Of course that would mean the Reapers weren't destroyed, and they'd still have to be defeated.

I'd love it, but it doesn't seem like Bioware's moving in this direction.


Because IT should have been the ending all along but that's another thread entirely.  

You're 100% right.  From a storyline perspective, IT is the only way the story can move forward.  Nothing else makes sense.

You're also right that there's no way they'll do that.


No. Indoctrinaton does not involve people having hallucinations of being in places they aren't doing things they aren´t really doing. It affects ones thoughts and therefore ones behavior, but never, nowhere does it involve going a badass trip. If it in anyway affects your perceptions, it´s by blocking them out entirely. (See Leviathan)

Only workable end state is refuse btw. You play as the human version of Javik.

Modifié par Psychevore, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:49 .


#106
Vrin

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Psychevore wrote...

Vrin wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Ironically, by far the easiest way for them to do a direct sequel is IT.

Not that I think they will actually do this, but it is actually the only solution that works easily without canonizing anything.

Endings didn't happen, and the result of the final choice simply determines whether Shepard became indoctrinated / died or not. Only (high EMS/breath scene) destroy could continue the story.

Of course that would mean the Reapers weren't destroyed, and they'd still have to be defeated.

I'd love it, but it doesn't seem like Bioware's moving in this direction.


Because IT should have been the ending all along but that's another thread entirely.  

You're 100% right.  From a storyline perspective, IT is the only way the story can move forward.  Nothing else makes sense.

You're also right that there's no way they'll do that.


No. Indoctrinaton does not involve people having hallucinations of being in places they aren't doing things they aren´t really doing. It affects ones thoughts and therefore ones behavior, but never, nowhere does it involve going a badass trip. If it in anyway affects your perceptions, it´s by blocking them out entirely. (See Leviathan)

Only workable end state is refuse btw. You play as the human version of Javik.


Not debating IT specifics as that is frowned upon here.

Just agreeing with the poster that if IT was made true, the story can progress as one single universe because we never REALLY saw how the Reaper invasion ended.

#107
AlanC9

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Vrin wrote...

Well, they certainly COULD do a canon ending.  I just don't see how they will choose to do it after all the crap they took for NOT choosing one when doing so would easily doable.  It's like they'd say "Ok you know all the crap the gaming community gave us for not committing to an ending? Well, three years later here it is".

That doesn't seem like something they'd do to me.


Did Bio actually get crap specifically for not choosing a canon ending, though? That isn't how I interpreted it. But I wasn't one if the guys flinging the crap, so I don't necessary understand it too well.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:55 .


#108
AlanC9

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Psychevore wrote...

No. Indoctrinaton does not involve people having hallucinations of being in places they aren't doing things they aren´t really doing. It affects ones thoughts and therefore ones behavior, but never, nowhere does it involve going a badass trip. If it in anyway affects your perceptions, it´s by blocking them out entirely. (See Leviathan)


You don't actually expect this argument to work, do you?

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:54 .


#109
Vrin

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AlanC9 wrote...

Vrin wrote...

Well, they certainly COULD do a canon ending.  I just don't see how they will choose to do it after all the crap they took for NOT choosing one when doing so would easily doable.  It's like they'd say "Ok you know all the crap the gaming community gave us for not committing to an ending? Well, three years later here it is".

That doesn't seem like something they'd do to me.


Did Bio actually get crap specifically for not choosing a canon ending, though? That isn't how I interpreted it.


Yes, they did.  A ton.  

The reason the starchild ending existed was to force the player to make a choice (Destroy, Synthesis, Control).  The player never got the chance to fight it out with the Reapers (the way the Warden did with the Archdemon, for example).  

The ending was widely panned because it was a cop out, a non-ending.  The reason it was a cop out was they didn't choose a canon ending.  All the crap the ending got would never have existed if they had chosen one the same way no one complains about the end of Dragon Age Origins.  That too was a morally grey (Grey Warden, a name not chosen by mistake) decision based game...but all roads led to the death of the Archdemon.

So while all the crap may have been flung at various aspects of the ending, the root cause of the crap being flung is Bioware's decision to not choose a canon ending.

#110
AlanC9

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Vrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Did Bio actually get crap specifically for not choosing a canon ending, though? That isn't how I interpreted it.

Yes, they did.  A ton.  
The reason the starchild ending existed was to force the player to make a choice (Destroy, Synthesis, Control).  The player never got the chance to fight it out with the Reapers (the way the Warden did with the Archdemon, for example).  


Really?This always struck me as an objection to the specific nature of the choices. Sure, I used to insult people by saying stuff like "you're really asking for less choice? In an RPG? Seriously?" But I didn't think I was actually making a truthful accusation there; I thought I was pointing out hypocrisy by interpreting their overblown rhetoric literally.

The ending was widely panned because it was a cop out, a non-ending.  The reason it was a cop out was they didn't choose a canon ending. 


I don't remember anyone saying this. Should we dive into the forum archives and have a look?

#111
Vrin

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AlanC9 wrote...

Vrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Did Bio actually get crap specifically for not choosing a canon ending, though? That isn't how I interpreted it.

Yes, they did.  A ton.  
The reason the starchild ending existed was to force the player to make a choice (Destroy, Synthesis, Control).  The player never got the chance to fight it out with the Reapers (the way the Warden did with the Archdemon, for example).  


Really?This always struck me as an objection to the specific nature of the choices. Sure, I used to insult people by saying stuff like "you're really asking for less choice? In an RPG? Seriously?" But I didn't think I was actually making a truthful accusation there; I thought I was pointing out hypocrisy by interpreting their overblown rhetoric literally.

The ending was widely panned because it was a cop out, a non-ending.  The reason it was a cop out was they didn't choose a canon ending. 


I don't remember anyone saying this. Should we dive into the forum archives and have a look?


You can if you want :)

Think about it this way:  If they had a final battle a'la Dragon Age Origins(the way the Warden does with the Archdemon where all the choices made along the way mattered:

mages or templars assist you
werewolves or elves assist you
dwarves or golems assist you
Does the Warden strike the final blow?
Does Alistair?
Did you consummate with Morrigan allowing the Warden to live?

Would there have been a hue and cry about the ending?  I don't believe there would have been, the same way there wasn't one regarding Dragon Age's ending.

The root cause of the yelling and screaming about the ending was that wasn't an ending in the way video games normally end (gigantic battle with the big bad guy).  

Players ****ed about the choices because that's what was in front of them. Destroy, Control whatever.  If there was a classic ending (think: Final fight with Harbinger which somehow results in destruction of the Reapers), no starchild, no choices there would have been no ****ing at all.

People can debate all day (and have!) about whether Destroy or Control or Synthesis or Refusal are the "right" ending. They can complain at Bioware that this ending or that one sucked.  And they did.  

But the root cause is because the endings are not victory over a foe. Just making a choice.  That's REALLY what caused the complaining.

#112
Vrin

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Let me add one thing:

In Dragon Age: Origins the CHOICES influenced the ENDING
In Mass Effect 3: The ENDING is the CHOICE

One ending was one of the best, most satisfying endings I've ever experienced in my 35 years video gaming

One ending had serious flaws and was the most deeply controversial I've ever experienced in my 35 years video gaming

#113
windsea

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Vrin wrote...

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

Vrin wrote...
It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.


Sequel is possible. It's actually easier than people seem to imagine. Why would they have to make 4 different games? Seriously. The ending has no serious effects on galaxy in aftermath (other than the utter destruction of the relay system). On average, the same thing happens. Reapers lose, galaxy recovers, reaper tech becomes more familiar.

Only problem with the sequel is, that what is the threat? There is no real threats in the post-reaper galaxy, since the Alliance is the major unified power in post-RW galaxy. So, what it is? Extra-galactic invasion? Why should we even have a galactic problem in the first place? Couldn't just Firefly-esque setting do?

And yay for prequel. But nay for Rachni Wars/KR, since that is so far back, that the humanity wasn't even a space-faring race back then. Prequel would need to happen at the time bethween early 2160's to late 2170's.




The galaxy isn't much different?  

In Destroy, there are no more Reapers. The galaxy continues as "normal" but with all existing AI wiped out (no Geth).  relays are destroyed and with no reapers around to fix them presumably they stay that way. Shepard lives.

In Control. there are Reapers but Shepard has stopped their attack.  The galaxy continues as normal. relays are destroyed but rebuilt by Shep controlled Reapers, Geth still exist.  Shepard "dies".

In Synthesis the organics and synthetics meld together.  They are now all part of the Reaper collective conscious meaning peace across the galaxy (all are part of the one).  Potentially immortal beings (stated by EDI in extended cut post-victory debrief). Relays are destroyed but presumably be rebuilt.  Shepard dies.

In Refuse, the attack continues and the Galaxy is purged as it was in every previous cycle.  No Humans, Asari, Quarians, Krogan etc...

In some, the relay exist. In others, they don't.  In one, we all live together in (literally) perfect harmony.  In another, nothing lives at all.

I don't see how they can be more different.  

Lastly, Bioware moved heaven and earth, taking more scorn and derision due to their choice to not establish a canon ending than any gaming company has ever taken.  To do a true sequel, they'd have to make that choice.  There's no way they're doing that.  Not after what they went through to not do it.

Edit: Posted in a hurry - added some more detail



you are making a lot of assumptions with synthesis there, the way i take it after the EC was that organics got cybernetics (which already exist) and AIs got emotions. And AIs are limited to mainly the Geth who can die outside of the three ending so they mostly will not be have a big role anyway, like the rachni was in ME2.

Also in the destroy ending Hackett made it seem like they would be rebuilted the mass relays in time.

I doubt they we do much with Shepard being alive unless they let the player control both the New PC and Shepard in the conversations.

leaveing only the reapers to have a effect who are a military force more then anything, so any type of story that don't need a army will not be majorly affected and if it does needs the reapers, their tech can have be reverse engineering it letting the story still take place.also after the war i don't anyone will be letting reapers into other parts of their lives too.

refuse will not be used.

#114
Vrin

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windsea wrote...

Vrin wrote...

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

Vrin wrote...
It can't be a sequel for the reasons the OP said (unless they make 4 different games that take place after Shepard's choice) or they pull a Dragon Age Origins (have all 4 endings lead each "choice" to the same place like how choosing a Dalish Elf or Dwarven Noble or Human Mage each lead to becoming a Grey Warden at Ostagar.

A prequel is more likely.  I think the time of the Rachni wars and/or Krogan Rebellion would be a lot of fun to explore.


Sequel is possible. It's actually easier than people seem to imagine. Why would they have to make 4 different games? Seriously. The ending has no serious effects on galaxy in aftermath (other than the utter destruction of the relay system). On average, the same thing happens. Reapers lose, galaxy recovers, reaper tech becomes more familiar.

Only problem with the sequel is, that what is the threat? There is no real threats in the post-reaper galaxy, since the Alliance is the major unified power in post-RW galaxy. So, what it is? Extra-galactic invasion? Why should we even have a galactic problem in the first place? Couldn't just Firefly-esque setting do?

And yay for prequel. But nay for Rachni Wars/KR, since that is so far back, that the humanity wasn't even a space-faring race back then. Prequel would need to happen at the time bethween early 2160's to late 2170's.




The galaxy isn't much different?  

In Destroy, there are no more Reapers. The galaxy continues as "normal" but with all existing AI wiped out (no Geth).  relays are destroyed and with no reapers around to fix them presumably they stay that way. Shepard lives.

In Control. there are Reapers but Shepard has stopped their attack.  The galaxy continues as normal. relays are destroyed but rebuilt by Shep controlled Reapers, Geth still exist.  Shepard "dies".

In Synthesis the organics and synthetics meld together.  They are now all part of the Reaper collective conscious meaning peace across the galaxy (all are part of the one).  Potentially immortal beings (stated by EDI in extended cut post-victory debrief). Relays are destroyed but presumably be rebuilt.  Shepard dies.

In Refuse, the attack continues and the Galaxy is purged as it was in every previous cycle.  No Humans, Asari, Quarians, Krogan etc...

In some, the relay exist. In others, they don't.  In one, we all live together in (literally) perfect harmony.  In another, nothing lives at all.

I don't see how they can be more different.  

Lastly, Bioware moved heaven and earth, taking more scorn and derision due to their choice to not establish a canon ending than any gaming company has ever taken.  To do a true sequel, they'd have to make that choice.  There's no way they're doing that.  Not after what they went through to not do it.

Edit: Posted in a hurry - added some more detail



you are making a lot of assumptions with synthesis there, the way i take it after the EC was that organics got cybernetics (which already exist) and AIs got emotions. And AIs are limited to mainly the Geth who can die outside of the three ending so they mostly will not be have a big role anyway, like the rachni was in ME2.

Also in the destroy ending Hackett made it seem like they would be rebuilted the mass relays in time.

I doubt they we do much with Shepard being alive unless they let the player control both the New PC and Shepard in the conversations.

leaveing only the reapers to have a effect who are a military force more then anything, so any type of story that don't need a army will not be majorly affected and if it does needs the reapers, their tech can have be reverse engineering it letting the story still take place.also after the war i don't anyone will be letting reapers into other parts of their lives too.

refuse will not be used.



Some of EDI's quotes from Synthesis ending debrief:

"I am alive"

"As a galaxy we can now live the lives we have wished for"
"Taking our first steps into a future in which organics and synthetics coexist peacefully (ok, not exactly what I said)

"With peace across the galaxy and unlimited access to knowledge"  (exactly what I said)

"We will reclaim our world and the stars as the line between synthetic and organic disappears (exactly what I said - while showing the reaper tech bonding to molecules)

"We may transcend mortality itself" (implying that the hybrid beings eventually become immortal)

In Destroy, 

Hackett says "the relays are severely damaged but we won".  Considering the Reapers built them and they've been destroyed, seeing that they're restored its a bigger assumption than that they aren't.  He goes on to say we can rebuild evrerything but then specifies the fleets, the cities, the homes..never mentions the relays.

As they stand, there's no way to reconcile the difference in the endings without deus ex machina / retcon.  In Synthesis, everyone becomes "one", in Refuse, every space faring race is wiped out.  

The only option open to the writers (barring "and then X happened and all of the choices were nullified") is to choose a canon ending or go with Indoctrination Theory.  Since they're not going IT and they moved heaven and earth to not choose a canon ending, I don't see any solid storyline where they can do an actual sequel.

#115
Funkier_Than_Thou

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I've been playing games made by Naughty Dog and been checking out games of other publishers. They are doing wonderful things with Motion Capture Technology. I understand that Battlefield 3 had used a fair share of motion capture in its development... I wonder if they did the same thing with Mass Effect 4 and Dragon Age Inquisition. Just for the cinematics at least. :)

It would definitely enhance the cinematic experience... :D

Modifié par Funkier_Than_Thou, 14 janvier 2014 - 09:26 .


#116
Wayning_Star

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everyone in ME4 will probably be riding dragons and have dragon armor, etc.. blink 'in between' and stuff.

#117
windsea

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Vrin wrote...

Some of EDI's quotes from Synthesis ending debrief:

"I am alive"

"As a galaxy we can now live the lives we have wished for"
"Taking our first steps into a future in which organics and synthetics coexist peacefully (ok, not exactly what I said)

"With peace across the galaxy and unlimited access to knowledge"  (exactly what I said)

"We will reclaim our world and the stars as the line between synthetic and organic disappears (exactly what I said - while showing the reaper tech bonding to molecules)

"We may transcend mortality itself" (implying that the hybrid beings eventually become immortal)

In Destroy, 

Hackett says "the relays are severely damaged but we won".  Considering the Reapers built them and they've been destroyed, seeing that they're restored its a bigger assumption than that they aren't.  He goes on to say we can rebuild evrerything but then specifies the fleets, the cities, the homes..never mentions the relays.

As they stand, there's no way to reconcile the difference in the endings without deus ex machina / retcon.  In Synthesis, everyone becomes "one", in Refuse, every space faring race is wiped out.  

The only option open to the writers (barring "and then X happened and all of the choices were nullified") is to choose a canon ending or go with Indoctrination Theory.  Since they're not going IT and they moved heaven and earth to not choose a canon ending, I don't see any solid storyline where they can do an actual sequel.




Synthesis

"With peace
across the galaxy” of course there peace the reaper war is over and we resolve the
only other war that was going one in the game.

“Unlimited access to
knowledge" the reapers simple could be sharing their information freely or
everyone can have access an information network like the extranet.

“As the line between synthetic and organic disappears” the catalyst
said that “organic seek perfection through technology” and “Organics will be
perfected by integrating full with synthetic technology” organics weakness are their
physical limits meaning the synthetic technology would have to make them stronger,
faster, and able to do math faster but they would be not less "human".
“Synthetic will finally have
full understanding of organics” in other words emotions.

"We MAY transcend mortality itself" may is the
keyword here as A. it did not happen yet and B, we are unsure of what form it
would take.

Nowhere did it say that they were one reaper hive mind and
EDI would not be using “I” when she talked about herself if it was true. And as
the tech was based off of Shepard who was not part of the reaper’s collective
conscious there would be no reason for it.


Destroy

He does say they can “rebuilt EVERYTHING that was destroyed”
and “our homes, our world, our fleets and defenses. All of this and MORE.” and
seeing as mass relays are what turns a year and more long trip to a few hours
or days trip I say that they are a top priority. Or they could just make better
FTL engines now that they don’t have the easy travel that was the relays.

Refuse

Refuse could just not be allowed to be imported; it would be
like Shepard dying in ME2.

I pretty sure they have already said that, but I don’t remember
where, so don’t take my word for it.

 

I think you are just assuming the worst outcomes with the
endings when you should be assuming that they will work out in a way that lets
ME4’s story to take place. Take ME1's endings for example. they in no way helped or hurt Shepard trying to stop the reapers, they could easy have but they didn't.

The story also DOESN’T have to be bound to war or the reapers and
can be pretty much anything.

Modifié par windsea, 15 janvier 2014 - 01:32 .


#118
DoomsdayDevice

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Psychevore wrote...

Vrin wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Ironically, by far the easiest way for them to do a direct sequel is IT.

Not that I think they will actually do this, but it is actually the only solution that works easily without canonizing anything.

Endings didn't happen, and the result of the final choice simply determines whether Shepard became indoctrinated / died or not. Only (high EMS/breath scene) destroy could continue the story.

Of course that would mean the Reapers weren't destroyed, and they'd still have to be defeated.

I'd love it, but it doesn't seem like Bioware's moving in this direction.


Because IT should have been the ending all along but that's another thread entirely.  

You're 100% right.  From a storyline perspective, IT is the only way the story can move forward.  Nothing else makes sense.

You're also right that there's no way they'll do that.


No. Indoctrinaton does not involve people having hallucinations of being in places they aren't doing things they aren´t really doing. It affects ones thoughts and therefore ones behavior, but never, nowhere does it involve going a badass trip. If it in anyway affects your perceptions, it´s by blocking them out entirely. (See Leviathan)


Not to derail the thread, but I just have to address this, because I disagree entirely.

- Leviathan establishes that the Leviathans (the species that made the AI that created the Reapers by harvesting his creators) have a mind control power that can create realistic visual illusions.

- The Leviathan says that Shepard's nature will be revealed to "them" (the Leviathan(s)), meaning that they can read his mind.

- Furthermore, the Leviathan tells you that Shepard's mind is his now, and that he will use Shepard's memories to give a voice to his words. (As he says this, your surroundings change and you actually see a woman speaking to you that you met earlier in the DLC.) The character changes several times while Shepard dips in and out of the illusion. So not only can they show you characters from your memories, if you pay attention you'll see that the scientist is operating some kind of microscopic device, and you are being shown some kind of holographic diagram. So they can show you objects too.

- The Leviathan explains to you that all Reapers have this abillity to influence organics, and that over time they have developed it and perfected it to indoctrination. In other words, the Reapers' mind controlling abilities are even more advanced than the Leviathan's.

This really strengthens IT because it helps establish that the Reapers can actually build entire visual hallucinations from Shepard's memories, like IT claims they do, and that they can read his mind. If the Leviathans can show you visuals from memory, then surely the Reapers can use voices from your memories, as they perfected the process.

More parallels:

When the mind control is over, Shepard has a nosebleed. Just like on the citadel after the confrontation with TIM.

Also, when the mind control begins, Shepard is shown on hands and knees, the exact same pose he was in near Object Rho and in the decision chamber when he meets the 'catalyst'.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 16 janvier 2014 - 12:19 .


#119
MattFini

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Just set it far enough in the future so the ending choice doesn't have to be referenced.

Give me a spaceship, some cool new companions and let me go exploring and I'll be happy.

#120
dorktainian

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If CW theory is correct (which I think it might well be) then i'll be as happy as larry.

IT would be correct.....after a fashion..

#121
AlanC9

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dorktainian wrote...

If CW theory is correct (which I think it might well be) then i'll be as happy as larry.

IT would be correct.....after a fashion..


CW theory? Isn't that the one where indoctrination started all the way back in ME1?

#122
MattFini

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AlanC9 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

If CW theory is correct (which I think it might well be) then i'll be as happy as larry.

IT would be correct.....after a fashion..


CW theory? Isn't that the one where indoctrination started all the way back in ME1?


What is the CW theory?

#123
AlanC9

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Choose Wisely, I think. Turbo_J is around here pushing it a lot. But it's one of those theories where the proponents won't, or can't, make a rational argument, so it's mostly spread via propaganda video. I find it hard to take this method of argument seriously. Maybe I'm just too old for it.

Anyway, it's easily googleable if you want to have a look.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 janvier 2014 - 04:46 .


#124
Iakus

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Bahm,, I prefer my won theroy: VT-Vid Theory.

Shepard was always a fictional character in the ME universe. We've simply been viewers of an interactive vid of his/her adventures. Basically a more sophisticated version of the vid Javik participated in in Citadel.

So Shepard, Liara, the Reapers, Saren, the Normandy, all of it was simply a glorified Blasto movie.

Hey, it could happen.  Do it, Bioware, go completely meta! Image IPB

Modifié par iakus, 20 janvier 2014 - 05:22 .


#125
MattFini

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AlanC9 wrote...

Choose Wisely, I think. Turbo_J is around here pushing it a lot. But it's one of those theories where the proponents won't, or can't, make a rational argument, so it's mostly spread via propaganda video. I find it hard to take this method of argument seriously. Maybe I'm just too old for it.

Anyway, it's easily googleable if you want to have a look.


Thanks. I watched the first video and I'm not sold. 

I think the IT throries are interesting, but there's SO much stuff in these videos that are absurd: Shepard's "paranoid" character animations in ME2 and 3, and Vega's dialogue taken out of context...