KaiserShep wrote...
TheKomandorShepard wrote...
And what is problem with no conscience?
If such a question must be asked, you're either a lunatic or trolling.
1. Oh! I have, God knows I have, but not because it was fun or I liked that, most of the time because, I have no control over the grand scheme of things and sometimes people get hurt , (I, unlike you am not a god)TheKomandorShepard wrote...
1.Nope you never did or said something di**** to someone because i doubt that...
2.Killing is killing , rape is rape , stealing is stealing no matter if you do that for money , fun or "necessary evil"
(which means doing something bad for own benefit and is used as justification not reason)...
whether it is evil or not put morality here everyone have different...
3.Of course they did not only in current moment but also they are even bigger threat and others in future so yep so im killing for survival...
And what is problem with no conscience?
NorwegianPirate wrote...
Veruin wrote...
mikeymoonshine wrote...
Are they though? I am not a lore master but I have never heard much info on qunari society or how well their mage controlls work. They could be having kirkwall style incidents every week for all we know.
Seeing as how the sareebas reacts in DA2 when you free him, along with those control rods of theirs, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Qunari don't have those problems.
The qunari really go to great lengths to keep their mages in check. It's a bit odd to me that they don't simply do it the Alrik way and make all the mages tranquil from the get-go if they're so terrified of them.
Modifié par Writ3Wing3r, 24 février 2014 - 05:01 .
Loghain Mac-Tir wrote...
1. Oh! I have, God knows I have, but not because it was fun or I liked that, most of the time because, I have no control over the grand scheme of things and sometimes people get hurt , (I, unlike you am not a god)TheKomandorShepard wrote...
1.Nope you never did or said something di**** to someone because i doubt that...
2.Killing is killing , rape is rape , stealing is stealing no matter if you do that for money , fun or "necessary evil"
(which means doing something bad for own benefit and is used as justification not reason)...
whether it is evil or not put morality here everyone have different...
3.Of course they did not only in current moment but also they are even bigger threat and others in future so yep so im killing for survival...
And what is problem with no conscience?
2. It matters why you do such a thing (rape is not necessart evil, it is just .. evil) If you care not for actions and their consequences than you really are a child or have led a pitiful life.
3. I believe you have seen the future becuase of your god-like powers
Conscience is the only thing that truly separates us from all the other beings on this world, you might think it'd be sentience, but not truly, What make us Human is our Humanity, if you lose that or don't have that to begin with .
Then, may whatever entity you believe in, have mercy on your soul .
example you may warden can use that as justification to reach goal but was it necessary nope...
Indeed. but I would propose a reformation of the qun at some point, focusing on the treatment of mages. The loss of the self as in demonic possesion is little diffirent than a qunari becoming corupted by outide influence. (from a qunari perspective that is) = The Grey ones are not Qunari and if a Mage were to be lured into possesion it should be handeled the same as Qunari that are lured away from the Qun.Elfman wrote...
Silent Yoker wrote...
As a Qunari supporter its hard for me to stand by the way they treat mages.
I agree with the premise of control, adopting from the qun, but not ignorance, superstition or abuse.
I see the Qunari and chantry ways as being hypocritical to their ideals.
Templars employing cruelty and a form of blood magic to control.
While the Qunari instead of trying to experiment and understand the fade and magic they waste lives and resources upholding superstition.
The Qunari are the society I could see employing an education system not a control system, taking the Tamassrans into consideration. With training to resist temptation since birth I see no problem with mages being free in their role inside the Qun.
As a fellow Qunari supporter, I also have problems with their treatment of mages. But I understand why they do what they do. Qunari fear mages because they fear demonic possession, loss of the self being the biggest tragedy to the Qun. By sewing lips, Saarebas can't talk to each other, therefore preventing an Uldred situation where one rebellious mage decides to corrupt other mages. So to me, the Arvaards are a necessary evil, much like the Circle and the Templars.
Modifié par Silent Yoker, 24 février 2014 - 04:46 .
Nuloen wrote...
qunari arvaarad said corrupted not possessed, why do you guys think it has to be possession
but
there must be something more dangerous about Kossith mages
becouse if other mages could corrupt them too qunari would just lock up them selves on theyre island and never go away again
maybe kossith mages are somehow connected to Old Gods, or they hear the calling of animal gods they have once prayed to (dragons included)Tevinter slaves can be qunari and still be slaves to theyre masters, they are freed of theyre purposeXxDeonxX wrote...
Pretty much yes, they aren't going to let you be an exception to the rule.
i think Qun means purpose it would make some sense
victory is in the Qun
victory is in Purpose(fullfilling your purpose)
Indeed. but a benevolant dictatorship is still better than a caotic inferno of free people.Writ3Wing3r wrote...
There doesn't have to be anything more dangerous about Kossith mages, Qunari are just authoritarians. It doesn't matter how benevolent a dictatorship is, it is still a dictatorship and will by its very nature resort to extreme measures to crush anything it veiws as a threat.
The Qun in many cases is a bag of hot air, and the fact that we haven't *really* seen their philosophy up close with a chance to poke holes in it, makes some people see it for the moment as some kind of Utopia-Cult.. (which I bet is very far from the truth)Writ3Wing3r wrote...
Part of Qunari philosophy is not wasting anything and a mages are still potent weapons even with the limitations placed on them by the Qun, also it's possible that the Qunari don't know how to tranquill mages.
Modifié par TheRedVipress, 24 février 2014 - 04:53 .
Writ3Wing3r wrote...
Part of Qunari philosophy is not wasting anything and a mages are still potent weapons even with the limitations placed on them by the Qun, also it's possible that the Qunari don't know how to tranquill mages.
Why wouldn't they? The Qunari do not place any value on the body of a deceased, so I think it is highly likely that they actually do use them as compost.TheRedVipress wrote...
"Not wasting anything", could also mean that the bodies of certain people are used as compost.
She was ready to use qamek on them, which would not kill them, but make them into midless slave, thus not "wasting" them.TheRedVipress wrote...
**spoiler?**
That priestess from the comic was quite ready to "waste" Isabella and Varric if what I read on wiki(I think)is correct.
TheRedVipress wrote...
The Qun in many cases is a bag of hot air, and the fact that we haven't *really* seen their philosophy up close with a chance to poke holes in it, makes some people see it for the moment as some kind of Utopia-Cult.. (which I bet is very far from the truth)Writ3Wing3r wrote...
Part of Qunari philosophy is not wasting anything and a mages are still potent weapons even with the limitations placed on them by the Qun, also it's possible that the Qunari don't know how to tranquill mages.
"Not wasting anything", could also mean that the bodies of certain people are used as compost.
Their extreme attitude is not something benevolent, it is certainly seems effective enough, but that in itself says very little.
**spoiler?**
That priestess from the comic was quite ready to "waste" Isabella and Varric if what I read on wiki(I think)is correct.
Using bodies as compost - exactly my point.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Why wouldn't they? The Qunari do not place any value on the body of a deceased, so I think it is highly likely that they actually do use them as compost.TheRedVipress wrote...
"Not wasting anything", could also mean that the bodies of certain people are used as compost.She was ready to use qamek on them, which would not kill them, but make them into midless slave, thus not "wasting" them.TheRedVipress wrote...
**spoiler?**
That priestess from the comic was quite ready to "waste" Isabella and Varric if what I read on wiki(I think)is correct.
Modifié par TheRedVipress, 24 février 2014 - 05:06 .
1. No, I did not do anything bad for my own pleasure, and I don't know how you can say that with certainty.TheKomandorShepard wrote...
1.I bet you did something di*** for own pleasure and just now you just don't see that and no im not god.
2.And what is necessary evil you aren't forced to do that and you don't have to neither you can say that was necessary evil because you cant say what would happen if you took other options so necessary evil is only matter of your perspective and try to justify goal.
3.As i said im trying to survive and many mages caused huge destruction i prefer my safety is that necessary evil nope or perhaps can i call that way yes...
And what is wrong with other beings in that world and why conscience makes us better or even difference?
I guess my question is: So what? What does it matter how they use the bodies of the deceased?TheRedVipress wrote...
Using bodies as compost - exactly my point.
They would have A use.
Not exactly the one they imagined maybe, but they would be used.
At this point you can be certain of very little when it comes to how the qun actually works, and any complex reasoning behind their decision making.
(It does seems abit like a writer's-pet-religion to me, but that could be just me.)
She changed her mind from attempting to convert Isabela. When it became apparent that Isabela would not convert, there was only the option of qamek left.TheRedVipress wrote...
The Priestess - As I understand, she changed her mind because Isabelle annoyed her tried to escape whatever, but I could be wrong, I didn't read the actual story.
Loghain Mac-Tir wrote...
1. No, I did not do anything bad for my own pleasure, and I don't know how you can say that with certainty.
2. Necessary Evil means doing something morally objectionable for the greater good (ends justifying the means and all that) and you aren't forced to do anything, you could sit in front of a TV all day in a semi-conscious state eating cheetos.
3.Mages are the sole reason for every major disaster in Thedas, but that still does not justify killing everyone, Germans caused unquantifiable (hyperbole) levels of destruction through out the world, so what would have been your solution after the end of WW II , kill every German?
Conscience makes us different , that's a no brainer, no other species have conscience, we do, that's why we are different.
In terms of why it makes us better
Do you know that we are the only species on Earth that observe 'Shark Week', Sharks don't observe 'Shark week' but we do, that's how awesome we are.
TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Yes it make us different but different doesn't make us better in fact conscience is just ball and chain thad makes you only slower as it doesn't let you do beneficial things just because you would feel bad for taking it...
Being a d*ck?KaiserShep wrote...
TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Yes it make us different but different doesn't make us better in fact conscience is just ball and chain thad makes you only slower as it doesn't let you do beneficial things just because you would feel bad for taking it...
So, assuming that you're not some kind of sociopathic maniac, what does your conscience prevent you from doing?
KaiserShep wrote...
TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Yes it make us different but different doesn't make us better in fact conscience is just ball and chain thad makes you only slower as it doesn't let you do beneficial things just because you would feel bad for taking it...
So, assuming that you're not some kind of sociopathic maniac, what does your conscience prevent you from doing?
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being a d*ck?
Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 février 2014 - 06:59 .
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
So... Basically being a d*ck...
I guess my question is: So what? What does it matter how they use the bodies of the deceased?
She changed her mind from attempting to convert Isabela. When it became apparent that Isabela would not convert, there was only the option of qamek left.
It dosen't matter what they do with the bodies of the deceased, not to me.
The whole point was that the idea that "qunari don't waste anything", even if true, doesn't have to mean what some people want to believe it means.
Yes, they might take in even a mage. What will they do with him? That is the real question.
Using him as compost is an extreme but a possible conclusion.The qun is not much about mercy.
They are somewhat utilitarian and overly logical in some areas.
Do they remain all logical and utilitarian when you anger them?
And what about things at the base of their ideology - like the extreme subjugation of mages - which is a fear-based reaction, not a utilitarian approach?
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