148 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not this list again.... *sigh*

Well, legends and stories and game narratives tend to focus mostly on the bad stuff, am I right? It is 5 Blights by the way, the last two haven't happened yet.
But I mean, do you really think giving examples out of the two games will help prove your point? Whatever that may be? (Mage genocide, I take it.) Ofcourse these games focusing on the bad stuff. Would be awful broing if they focused on the full 99% that was mentioned before as well.

"Well yes, First Enchanter, that was excellent work back there in that cave. You seemed to have everything under control and talk those bandits out of it while I watched, never once using a spell or forbidden Blood Magic."
"Thank you Hawke, you watching me was very helpful. Here is two sovereigns."
*Quest completed*

 

So what that bad stuff is there and we have a lot of that caused simple by mages they are danger for entire world and yep that list help prove it because thats are examples of it mages can't be controled even despite rather harsh methods that templar use... only way to keep safety for non-mages when it comes about magic is remove source of problems mages... or demons first i can remove second not i will take first...

 

@Kommandor

 

And if I listed the hundreds, nay thousands of things that nonmages did that harmed others, would you accept that or handwave it away?

 

As i said non-mages can't be compared to mages when it comes about danger most peoples are danger just on individual level like murderer and usually law is sufficient to intimidate to not do that... mages are danger from local to world scale every of them can at any moment cause harm even unintentionally on at least local scale and 1 word powers corrupt and as fenris said mages have it enough...
 

 

Well then let's make everyone Tranquill and be done with it then.

 

......

 

Never have I seen you talk about human emotions. About thinking as Templars and Mages as people, with feelings and relationships and reason and capability to love. I see you plea for Templars to be Terminators, you see Mages as live grenades, with their pins pulled out, in a humanoid form.

 

Well excuse me for a moment, I have to shake Hanako's hand.

 

You mean humans or just mages?

If first why i would do that most of them aren't even danger on such scale and even if i wanted simple i would need force big enough to enforce that on humans and that would lead having army of zombie in boring world...

If second why i would do that such process is expensive and take time and is pointlessly cruel it is good for sadist i do things that are just beneficial or give me pleasure...

 

In some jobs you need temper your emotions templar is such job they need to be terminators not hugging machines their job is killing...

[The Baconer]

I asked this before and no one would give me a straight answer.

Would or could a non-qunari mage ever be accepted as a convert?

 

No. What use would the Qun be to an unbound mage, anyway?

[TheLittleBird]

1) So what that bad stuff is there and we have a lot of that caused simple by mages they are danger for entire world and yep that list help prove it because thats are examples of it mages can't be controled even despite rather harsh methods that templar use... only way to keep safety for non-mages when it comes about magic is remove source of problems mages... or demons first i can remove second not i will take first...

 

2) You mean humans or just mages?

If first why i would do that most of them aren't even danger on such scale and even if i wanted simple i would need force big enough to enforce that on humans and that would lead having army of zombie in boring world...

If second why i would do that such process is expensive and take time and is pointlessly cruel it is good for sadist i do things that are just beneficial or give me pleasure...

 

In some jobs you need temper your emotions templar is such job they need to be terminators not hugging machines their job is killing...

 

1) Well yeah, but you used your list to counter the 99 vs 1 % argument that came up from others. That's what my complaint was all about
2) My Tranquil statement wasn't meant to be taken so literally. I just pointed out how you discarded my argument about emotions. And no, the Templar's job is not killing! Quite the opposite! It is to protect innocent people from the dangers of magic. Mage genocide is not the solution here. It is a final measure; the Right of Annulnment is a final measure. It is not beneficial; it is sadistic and cruel, to use your terminology in this quote above. 

 

No. What use would the Qun be to an unbound mage, anyway?

 

Well, I think the Qun would bind the mage in question. As for motives: maybe the mage fears the powers that h/she could potentially unleash and wants to be bound, believing the Qun is his/her best option?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For the image that isn't there anymore. Of the implied facepalm. That was by you, wasn't it?

Oh yeah, I posted that but took it down because I didn't want to seem mean.

 

But here you go in case you ever need to use it or something.

[The Baconer]

Well, I think the Qun would bind the mage in question. As for motives: maybe the mage fears the powers that h/she could potentially unleash and wants to be bound, believing the Qun is his/her best option?

 

They would most likely be killed, not bound. If they really buy into the whole cow philosophy I think jumping off of a cliff of running into a sword would be faster and more convenient than trying to hook up with some Qunari.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As i said non-mages can't be compared to mages when it comes about danger most peoples are danger just on individual level like murderer and usually law is sufficient to intimidate to not do that... mages are danger from local to world scale every of them can at any moment cause harm even unintentionally on at least local scale and 1 word powers corrupt and as fenris said mages have it enough...

So you are dictated not by the principle of the thing, but just the scale of it? In that case, wouldn't your proposed organization also fall under your need to be destroyed since it will be responsible for the deaths of thousands if not tens of thousands of people? A number that will forever rise because you can never fully exterminate mages since new ones are born every day, and can't be recognized as a mage until they get their powers years later? Or will rise exponentially since you propose killing not only mages but also anyone who has ever helped a mage?

[TheKomandorShepard]

1) Well yeah, but you used your list to counter the 99 vs 1 % argument that came up from others. That's what my complaint was all about
2) My Tranquil statement wasn't meant to be taken so literally. I just pointed out how you discarded my argument about emotions. And no, the Templar's job is not killing! Quite the opposite! It is to protect innocent people from the dangers of magic. Mage genocide is not the solution here. It is a final measure; the Right of Annulnment is a final measure. It is not beneficial; it is sadistic and cruel, to use your terminology in this quote above. 

 

1. Yep and that list proves that im right in that claims and that it isn't 99 % vs 1 % ...

2. And yes templar job is killing as well every soldier if you want change that in pretty words your call but they are killing... and yep it is solution it is final solution and most effective (only 1 effective) when it comes about safety.It is not sadistic because im not inflicting pain physical or mental for own pleasure just as safety purposes if it is better take your pick for me better is survive...

 

 

 

So you are dictated not by the principle of the thing, but just the scale of it? In that case, wouldn't your proposed organization also fall under your need to be destroyed since it will be responsible for the deaths of thousands if not tens of thousands of people? A number that will forever rise because you can never fully exterminate mages since new ones are born every day, and can't be recognized as a mage until they get their powers years later? Or will rise exponentially since you propose killing not only mages but also anyone who has ever helped a mage?

Yep it is like comparing gun to nuclear bomb both get other treatment despite both are still weapon same with mages and non-mages despite they are humans... And it is kill them before they kill me often used by societies.I can assure you that numbers of killed by that organisation will be not ever close to that killed by mages as well destruction caused and it have other benefits as developing technology...

 

Well about killing non-mages who are helping them well possible or another punishment that will show them consequences...

 

 

[Grieving Natashina]

Guys, you're only frustrating yourselves.  Please remember the following if you're going to have a conversation with a zealot:

 

Under Antisocial personality disorder.

 

 

 

Malevolent (including sadistic and paranoid features): Belligerent, mordant, rancorous, vicious, malignant, brutal, resentful; anticipates betrayal and punishment; desires revenge; truculent, callous, fearless; guiltless.

 

Finally, here's a quote from Winston Churchill:

 

A fanatic is one that won't change his mind and won't change the subject.

 

May I also add that this isn't supposed to be another "kill all the robes," thread.  This is about how/why a non-Qunari mage might join the Qun.  Gods know we have enough threads dealing with robes versus skirts.  Seriously, put on some pants!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1. Yep and that list proves that im right in that claims and that it isn't 99 % vs 1 % ...

2. And yes templar job is killing as well every soldier if you want change that in pretty words your call but they are killing... and yep it is solution it is final solution and most effective (only 1 effective) when it comes about safety.It is not sadistic because im not inflicting pain physical or mental for own pleasure just as safety purposes if it is better take your pick for me better is survive...

 

 

 

Yep it is like comparing gun to nuclear bomb both get other treatment despite both are still weapon same with mages and non-mages despite they are humans... And it is kill them before they kill me often used by societies.I can assure you that numbers of killed by that organisation will be not ever close to that killed by mages as well destruction caused and it have other benefits as developing technology...

 

Well about killing non-mages who are helping them well possible or another punishment that will show them consequences...

 

 

Unless you have the number of mages born ever, then no it doesn't prove that you are right. However, we know both in lore and from devs that abomnations are extremely rare.

The Templars job is actually to protect the world from mages AND protect mages from the world.

 

As for comparing mages to nuclear weapons, I again pose the point for you to provide evidence that the average mage, even as an abomination, can wipe out tens of thousands of people in an instant by themselves. Comparing them to regular bombs, sure I'll accept that. But I'll never see the "Mages are nukes" as anything other the epitome of hyperbole.

How can you assure that? Mages are born everyday, so you'll constantly have to keep killing them and those that help them which like it or not will eventually bring your organization's death toll to be higher than the mages you so fear. However, I agree with one point that your organization will benefit the world for. It will give the entire world a common enemy and unite them in your extermination.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Guys, you're only frustrating yourselves.  Please remember the following if you're going to have a conversation with a zealot:

 

May I also add that this isn't supposed to be another "kill all the robes," thread.  This is about how/why a non-Qunari mage might join the Qun.  Gods know we have enough threads dealing with robes versus skirts.  Seriously, put on some pants!

You are right. I'm dropping this now. I just had to address those final points.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I asked this before and no one would give me a straight answer.

Would or could a non-qunari mage ever be accepted as a convert?

I think the answer is no because they will assume that it is possessed by a demon. I mean, they killed Ketojan for being away from the Arvaarad for only a few days at most, and his mouth was sealed.

[Steelcan]

I think the answer is no because they will assume that it is possessed by a demon. I mean, they killed Ketojan for being away from the Arvaarad for only a few days at most, and his mouth was sealed.

 

The qunari would never turn away a convert, they'd just shackle him up and sew his lips

[TheKomandorShepard]

Guys, you're only frustrating yourselves.  Please remember the following if you're going to have a conversation with a zealot:

 

Under Antisocial personality disorder.

 

 

 

 

Finally, here's a quote from Winston Churchill:

 

 

 

 

May I also add that this isn't supposed to be another "kill all the robes," thread.  This is about how/why a non-Qunari mage might join the Qun.  Gods know we have enough threads dealing with robes versus skirts.  Seriously, put on some pants!

 

Huh again no im not sociopath...

 

 

Unless you have the number of mages born ever, then no it doesn't prove that you are right. However, we know both in lore and from devs that abomnations are extremely rare.

The Templars job is actually to protect the world from mages AND protect mages from the world.

 

As for comparing mages to nuclear weapons, I again pose the point for you to provide evidence that the average mage, even as an abomination, can wipe out tens of thousands of people in an instant by themselves. Comparing them to regular bombs, sure I'll accept that. But I'll never see the "Mages are nukes" as anything other the epitome of hyperbole.

How can you assure that? Mages are born everyday, so you'll constantly have to keep killing them and those that help them which like it or not will eventually bring your organization's death toll to be higher than the mages you so fear. However, I agree with one point that your organization will benefit the world for. It will give the entire world a common enemy and unite them in your extermination.

 

Mages in thedas outside tevinter are something about few thousands they are minority so i doubt they are born every day... 1 mage can take a lot peoples just take 1 blight... thanks mages   

 

With instant no cause such damage or even more yep example blight or army of harvesters...

 

Blight , harvesters , army of undeads and other disasters caused by mages...

 

So yes mages can be regular bomb or nuclear bomb depending what harm mage will do...

 

And part of templars protecting mages is rather naive like beliving that blood magic in tevinter is forbidden both are illusion...

[shepard1038]

The qunari would never turn away a convert, they'd just shackle him up and sew his lips

This. The Qunari never waste resources.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The qunari would never turn away a convert, they'd just shackle him up and sew his lips

Then why did they not accept Ketojan back? He had all those failsafes, yet they killed him on the spot.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Komander: You say that and then you go right back to your "Kill them all speech."  That qualifies as Antisocial personality disorder, which is not the same as a sociopath and/or psychopath.  The description up top matches your posts perfectly.  I'm not saying you're like that offline, but your online persona comes off as such.

 

This isn't a Mages versus Templars thread, nor is this a "kill them all" thread.  This is only about Mages in the Qun.  Nothing else.  Please stay on topic Komander or go to the Uneven Representation thread.

 

On topic: Can anyone give me a good reason that a mage would ever want to join the Qun of their own volition?  I've been thinking about it and the only reason I can come up with is a few mages might be so scared of going to the Circle that they'd rather have a role in the Qun.

[Grieving Natashina]

Then why did they not accept Ketojan back? He had all those failsafes, yet they killed him on the spot.

His handler was gone.  To the Qunari, Ketojan was a very dangerous being that needed to die.  However, why they didn't just assign another handler is beyond me.  Maybe only one handler per mage?  

[Steelcan]

Then why did they not accept Ketojan back? He had all those failsafes, yet they killed him on the spot.

 

That's different from a convert

[Hanako Ikezawa]

His handler was gone.  To the Qunari, Ketojan was a very dangerous being that needed to die.  However, why they didn't just assign another handler is beyond me.  Maybe only one handler per mage?  

Perhaps, yet the moment they learn that Anders/Merrill/Bethany/Mage Hawke is a mage, the Arvaarad, no matter how civil the conversation prior, immediately engages in hostilities.

[Grieving Natashina]

That's different from a convert

 

I don't agree with Steel much, but he's right here.  I suspect that there might be a big difference in the way those born into the Qun are treated than those that convert.

 

I am puzzled as to how such a thing would work though.  Would a convert be assigned a handler, provided he was worthy?

[Steelcan]

I don't agree with Steel much, but he's right here.  I suspect that there might be a big difference in the way those born into the Qun are treated than those that convert.

 

I am puzzled as to how such a thing would work though.  Would a convert be assigned a handler, provided he was worthy?

 

Things get easier when you acknowledge my inherent righteousness in all things

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't agree with Steel much, but he's right here.  I suspect that there might be a big difference in the way those born into the Qun are treated than those that convert.

 

I am puzzled as to how such a thing would work though.  Would a convert be assigned a handler, provided he was worthy?

If that is true, then I think they would immediately. I wonder if they'll only accept mages as converts if an Arvaarad is present? I mean if they don't and do it before, then the mage is a Qunari without a handler, and thus must be killed or commit suicide.

[Grieving Natashina]

Things get easier when you acknowledge my inherent righteousness in all things

Nice try.  

 

I agreed with you this one time.  Don't let it go to your head.  

[Grieving Natashina]

If that is true, then I think they would immediately. I wonder if they'll only accept mages as converts if an Arvaarad is present? I mean if they don't and do it before, then the mage is a Qunari without a handler, and thus must be killed or commit suicide.

That just ties into my thought that no sane mage (or at least one that isn't very desperate) would ever join the Qun.  Now a desperate mage that is facing either Tranquility or death might think the Qun is a better option.

 

It makes me wonder if the Qunari just has handlers around in case of mage converts.   If not, how would that work?

[Steelcan]

Nice try.  

 

I agreed with you this one time.  Don't let it go to your head.  

 

 

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