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Mages and the Qun


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#126
Hanako Ikezawa

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That just ties into my thought that no sane mage (or at least one that isn't very desperate) would ever join the Qun.  Now a desperate mage that is facing either Tranquility or death might think the Qun is a better option.

 

It makes me wonder if the Qunari just has handlers around in case of mage converts.   If not, how would that work?

The mage is asked to wait until the Arvaarad arrives, of course. :P

 

But yeah, if a mage is trying to avoid being constantly watched by the Templars, why would they join a group that is even more strict on them?



#127
Grieving Natashina

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The mage is asked to wait until the Arvaarad arrives, of course. :P

 

But yeah, if a mage is trying to avoid being constantly watched by the Templars, why would they join a group that is even more strict on them?

Contrary to the popular expression, sometimes the devil you don't know is better than the one you do.  I also wonder if it's common knowledge how the Qunari treat their mages.

 

@Steel:

 

3169910-363gvl.jpg



#128
Hanako Ikezawa

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Contrary to the popular expression, sometimes the devil you don't know is better than the one you do.  I also wonder if it's common knowledge how the Qunari treat their mages.

Considering how knowledge on how Qunari do anything is lacking, I'm going to go with it is not. I wonder how that would go.

 

Qunari: "Okay, Saarebas. You are now welcomed into the Qun. I would now ask you to wait her until your Arvaarad handler arrives. He will watch over you constantly to make sure you don't deal with demons."

 

Mage: "Umm, isn't that what the Templars do?"

 

Qunari: "Do your Templars make sure you cannot speak to demons or spread its words by sealing your mouth? If so, then no. Don't worry, we respect all Saarebas for their sacrifice for the Qun."

 

Mage: "I'm not so sure about this."

 

Qunari: "Well, then you shouldn't have accepted the responsibility that comes with living under the Qun."


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#129
Grieving Natashina

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ROFL, I love that Han.  That seems like a realistic conversation, and one I could see happening.  I wonder if the mage in that scenario would just accept it or try to run.  I said try to run, because I think the Qunari would make very short work of them.



#130
TheKomandorShepard

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@Komander: You say that and then you go right back to your "Kill them all speech."  That qualifies as Antisocial personality disorder, which is not the same as a sociopath and/or psychopath.  The description up top matches your posts perfectly.  I'm not saying you're like that offline, but your online persona comes off as such.

 

This isn't a Mages versus Templars thread, nor is this a "kill them all" thread.  This is only about Mages in the Qun.  Nothing else.  Please stay on topic Komander or go to the Uneven Representation thread.

 

On topic: Can anyone give me a good reason that a mage would ever want to join the Qun of their own volition?  I've been thinking about it and the only reason I can come up with is a few mages might be so scared of going to the Circle that they'd rather have a role in the Qun.

 

Well like many peoples... :P i don't have it or at least they didn't diagnosed that so im clean... still fail to see lack of morality as illness rather than healthy approach if logic is used instead...

 

About thread wasn't that already answered that qun won't accept mage and best position than mage can be for qunari is basalit-an who isn't qunari someone linked to dg who said that...

 

I doubt that for elves that have sense as they will be "equal" (even if that sucks but sill they won't be treated like dirt) in qunari society for mage it is from bad to worse unless mage is masochist ,insane or brainwashed...



#131
Grieving Natashina

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@Komander Or if the mage is very desperate.  They might see the Qun as an improvement over Tranquility or living under the Templars.  

 

It was answered, true.  Yet, we are speculating how a mage convert could even work and/or why they would even want to.   So it's on topic.  The posts about killing all the mages (including babies!) were not.  Thanks for being on topic this time.



#132
Hanako Ikezawa

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Glad you liked it, Starsyn.



#133
Big I

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I believe in the the past David Gaider has said that the Ben Hasrath (qunari secret police, Talis is one of them) have had members who are mages, as well as members who are female warriors.


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#134
snackrat

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If they did they'd have to immediately execute them under the Qun for the time they spend unleashes, vulnerable to demonic influence.

So if anything it would be the difference between a righteous butchering or a ceremonial execution.



#135
darkchief10

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Seeing by how the Arvaarad freaked out when you mention you or one of your companions is a mage and instantly attacked you in DA2, I really don't think Qunari accept mage converts, they more likely have a kill on sight policy regarding mages not born under the qun.


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#136
Nuloen

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I believe in the the past David Gaider has said that the Ben Hasrath (qunari secret police, Talis is one of them) have had members who are mages, as well as members who are female warriors.

And if arishok wants to understand something magical he must asing saarebas with this task becouse nobody understands magic better than the one who use it And the one who proved himself could be considered safe-thing not saare-bas
So there could be hope for mages

#137
Stag

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(This got super long and I don't know how)

Alright, to sort of explain how the Qunari might react to mages attempting to convert, I'm going to set up a little analogy. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that being a mage in Thedas isn't magical for this analogy. Let's say that instead of being born with hands capable of magic, mages are born with, I dunno, maybe hands covered in Vaseline.

 

If you're having a hard time picturing that in your head, I've whipped together a quick concept to help you out.

 

vaseline%20mage.png

 

I feel like maybe this image of Vaseline Man has made things a little more convoluted, but it's too late to go back on that.

 

Depending on where you're born and what race you are, your views on Vaseline Man up there are different. Most humans, for example, believe that it was Ancient Vaseline Man and his buddies who smeared their petroleum jelly-covered hands all over the Maker's Spiritual DisneyWorld, which is why he's suddenly stopped returning their calls. Tevinter humans believe this to an extent, too, but also that people born with the natural ability to secrete petroleum jelly are the master race. This analogy keeps getting more and more messed up.

 

In Qunari culture, being born with Vaseline hands immediately makes you a theat to every single other member of society, period. You're assigned a personal guard, an avaraad, almost ASAP to ensure you don't smear you delicate, greasy hands all over people and kill them violently in the process. It's the belief of everyone around you that if left unattended, even for a short time, that demons will be drawn to the softness of your little hands and will possess you. It's also believed that anyone who interacts with you while your handler is off taking a leak is also susceptible to corruption by being around you. I'm not sure what kind of hand/body lotion is so potent that it draws demons to people around you, but I'd like to know if my local CostCo carries it in bulk, because some of the people I associate with could use some demonic possession. That's karma for you.

 

At any rate, Qunari culture is huge on this whole idea of "Vaseline Men are (literally translated) dangerous things that need to be bound, shackled, monitored at all times and killed if there's even a chance they may be corrupted". They're really nice gents. However, there's also an immense amount of respect in Qunari culture for the amount of control they need to have to avoid possession. Saarebas are both hated and feared as much as they are pitied and respected for the weight of their burden.

 

Given the respect and pity felt for mages and their petroleum plight, it is possible that they may be accepted into the Qun as converts- it takes true amounts of self control to avoid succumbing, especially when not shackled like the Qunari's own are. However, they are still dangerous things that have been exposed for an entire lifetime without a true arvaarad to keep them contained. The best a convert mage could hope for would be a quick, painless death, most likely. An interesting situation,though, would be one of a Templar handler and mage converting together. Would the Templar, for the sake of argument, constitute a sufficient handler? Or is only a true arvaarad acceptable? It's something that would be interesting to see played out, at any rate.

 

In short: the Qunari believe that anyone with magical Vaseline hands is 120% a threat to everyone if they aren't having their leash held, so at best a mage trying to convert would probably be killed to protect anyone else from their corruption.

 

(Whew, that got long)


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#138
Rainbow Wyvern

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*snip hilariously awshum post*

I cannot stop laughing. Best post evar  :lol:



#139
EmissaryofLies

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A mage....

 

Submitting to the Qun....

 

It's like going from modern Christianity to the Westboro Baptist Church.


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#140
Stag

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A mage....

 

Submitting to the Qun....

 

It's like going from modern Christianity to the Westboro Baptist Church.

I got a laugh out of this, but to be fair the Qun represents order in all things. For some mages who had grown so comfortable in the structure and routine of life in the Circle, the order of the Qun may seem appealing. Obviously their rigid treatment of mages is, well, let's just say "perhaps a little over-the-top", but considering the world has fallen to absolute chaos I can see the (desperate) appeal to some.

 

There's also room conceptually for a mage or mages who throw themselves at the Qunari both to reclaim some kind of structure as well as out of a sense of self-loathing/fear of what they may unleash. It's still most likely they'd be killed ASAP, but the idea is interesting IMHO.


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#141
EmissaryofLies

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I got a laugh out of this, but to be fair the Qun represents order in all things. For some mages who had grown so comfortable in the structure and routine of life in the Circle, the order of the Qun may seem appealing. Obviously their rigid treatment of mages is, well, let's just say "perhaps a little over-the-top", but considering the world has fallen to absolute chaos I can see the (desperate) appeal to some.

 

There's also room conceptually for a mage or mages who throw themselves at the Qunari both to reclaim some kind of structure as well as out of a sense of self-loathing/fear of what they may unleash. It's still most likely they'd be killed ASAP, but the idea is interesting IMHO.

I concur. 

 

It is an interesting idea. It's somewhat tragic however. 

 

Here you have a mage who has likely heard all of his life that his gift is a 'curse' and that he can never be trusted with any sort of genuine freedom. The mage eventually accepts the Chantry/Templar's propaganda and conforms. As you said, self loathing or fear may lead him to even join the Qun. But that's my issue with mages in general. They should not be brainwashed to hate themselves or their magic. And the Qun for all of its structure, purpose and power, would not help. 

 

For those who would subjugate themselves to a so called higher power or philosophy I suppose the Qun would be ideal.

 

And that is exactly what I hate about the Chantry and the Qun. 


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#142
TheLittleBird

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I concur. 

 

It is an interesting idea. It's somewhat tragic however. 

 

Here you have a mage who has likely heard all of his life that his gift is a 'curse' and that he can never be trusted with any sort of genuine freedom. The mage eventually accepts the Chantry/Templar's propaganda and conforms. As you said, self loathing or fear may lead him to even join the Qun. But that's my issue with mages in general. They should not be brainwashed to hate themselves or their magic. And the Qun for all of its structure, purpose and power, would not help. 

 

For those who would subjugate themselves to a so called higher power or philosophy I suppose the Qun would be ideal.

 

And that is exactly what I hate about the Chantry and the Qun. 

 

Funnily enough, that is exactly how I'm going to roleplay my Qunari mage Inquisitor if possible. As someone who regards the Chantry's idea of dealing with magic (i.e. circles) as very fitting and who primarily focuses on the negative aspects of magic and its dangers.


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#143
EmissaryofLies

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Funnily enough, that is exactly how I'm going to roleplay my Qunari mage Inquisitor if possible. As someone who regards the Chantry's idea of dealing with magic (i.e. circles) as very fitting and who primarily focuses on the negative aspects of magic and its dangers.

 

Ah, tell me then. How do you believe the extremist chantry and templars would react to such a character?

 

Do you think they would view him/her as a friend or stab the character in the back when he/she outlives his/her usefulness?



#144
TheLittleBird

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Ah, tell me then. How do you believe the extremist chantry and templars would react to such a character?

 

Do you think they would view him/her as a friend or stab the character in the back when he/she outlives his/her usefulness?

 

Probably the latter.

It'll be interesting to see how I'll flesh this out as I go along in the game. Especially how my Qunari would act toward companion mages like Vivienne, but also towards Templars and Chantry extremists.



#145
Master Warder Z_

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I think an actually cooperative Qunari would put the Templars in an odd position to say the least; Given similiar views on everything besides Faith its conceivable they could tolerate the heathen. Even support it to an extent if required but i couldn't see it done with any Joy after all the Templars are a religious Order; And while the Inquisition may be required to end the veil tear threat, An Unbound mage isn't something they would be likely to ignore even if it was a neutral hostile.

 

So while i could see cooperation, i don't see it extending as far as say it would to a Devout Andrastarian Human.

 

But then again given our "Qunari" PC's aren't Qunari this point might very well be moot.



#146
TheLittleBird

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I think an actually cooperative Qunari would put the Templars in an odd position to say the least; Given similiar views on everything besides Faith its conceivable they could tolerate the heathen. Even support it to an extent if required but i couldn't see it done with any Joy after all the Templars are a religious Order; And while the Inquisition may be required to end the veil tear threat, An Unbound mage isn't something they would be likely to ignore even if it was a neutral hostile.

 

So while i could see cooperation, i don't see it extending as far as say it would to a Devout Andrastarian Human.

 

But then again given our "Qunari" PC's aren't Qunari this point might very well be moot.

 

Well Qunari or not, the PC would still be a mage. 

I'm guessing the only toleration mage PC's would get from Templars would be from them being the Inquisitor.



#147
wcholcombe

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I haven't met any mages that actually loathe themselves?  Quite the opposite actually, we have met a great number of mages who refuse to accept the delecate position they occupy in Thedas.  They are capable of great things through their power, but are also at great risk or great destruction and abuse.



#148
TheLittleBird

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I haven't met any mages that actually loathe themselves?  Quite the opposite actually, we have met a great number of mages who refuse to accept the delecate position they occupy in Thedas.  They are capable of great things through their power, but are also at great risk or great destruction and abuse.

 

Of course. If you were a mage, would you loathe yourself?
My guess is the majority of people would not. It is undeniable, however, that there are some to be found in all of Thedas. Including my canon Inquisitor  :P  (who doesn't really loathe himself but doesn't like himself being a mage either. He just acknowledges magic's use when in battle but nothing more.)



#149
wcholcombe

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Well Qunari or not, the PC would still be a mage. 

I'm guessing the only toleration mage PC's would get from Templars would be from them being the Inquisitor.

Well, in regards to established powers-Templars/Mages/Chantry/Orlais/etc it will have impact, but I don't know that being a Qunari Mage will be all that much different when you get down to brass tacks than say being a Human Fighter.  There will be differences, yes, but a totally different game play experience is hard to imagine.

 

Ex:  Say Lambert is still running the show for the Templars- He isn't going to be much more inclined to bend knee and give up power to the Human Inq. than the Kossith one.  Yes, a Kossith one, especially a mage, will give him more fuel for his arguments against the inquisition, but even if you are a human, Lambert would still fight you tooth and nail to keep his power, the same as most anyone else in his position in Thedas.

 

Will there be differences yes, I hope there are supreme ones, but there will be a limit to how different a gameplay experience they will make it.  I get the impression you will start out with a power base made up of peasants and minor lords/nobles who just want something done about the state of the world and as you build you power, other players will come into conflict/interaction with you.  If you are a well known heroic leader who happens to be a kossith mage, than there is only so much arguing against you that can be done.

 

Of course, I could see it done where being a mage or a kossith limits your options in some situations, especially with the kossith sense you might not have a diplomatic option in some instances or won't have as much support.  For the mage, I can actually see it being a benefit when dealing with certain groups.