74 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

zed888 wrote...

You could also get everybody including Shepard killed in ME2. Then 3 never happened. Hopefully Joker obeyed her last order and warned everybody.

Well if you go that route, might as well get it on with Morinth. Slightly more enjoyable way to go.

StreetMagic wrote...
I don't know what possessed them to make Shep strictly an Alliance type again and have everyone scattered to the four winds and giving Shep PTSD to boot. I almost have to wonder what kind of traumatic sh*t was going on in Walters' and Hudson's real lives for them to make the series such a downer. To me, there's no excuse other than that maybe they were having a hard time in life. lol. Kind of like when your favorite band occassionally goes emo and starts writing about suicide.

Maybe. But the way it stands, it's as jarring as having Weird Al do a serious song about suicide and playing it right after "We are the Champions".

[MattFini]

CrutchCricket wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

It's consistent for me with just Garrus gone. Add in a couple of others, plus the people who are forced to die in ME3, and you're already looking at 5 or 6 deaths. If you take too long rescuing the Cerberus crew too, then Ken Donnelly is depressed if you bring him back. It's not the same atmosphere without Gabby or Garrus chatting away.

I'd never kill a love interest though, for sure. That's basically what happened to Thane. His wife was killed because of his stupidity and he was forever messed up by it. I don't think Shepard would be any different. The tone of ME3 is depressing, but not to the point where Shepard isn't functional or seeking his own death.

The problem is you can't actually be the "hero that does everything right" in ME3.

If you do everything right at the end of ME2 you finish with a full crew of the galaxy's best badasses on a ship that's OP against anything short of a Reaper, in one of the most impregnable positions in the galaxy, and being backed by a private network of spies and informants that would make even Palpatine envious. In other words you have the makings of your own empire, as well as ties and leverage into just about every government. You could if you were allowed to that is, give everyone a gun and point them in the direction the Reapers will be coming from, without them being any the wiser.

Cue ME3... you're in jail on bull**** charges so some ****s can gain political points with a race that's already dead, your ship's impounded and its upgrades gutted, your badasses are scattered, and apart from two notable examples appear to be doing ****-all of use while refusing to join you, your would-be sanctuary has been taken and thus sped up/enabled the launch of the worst stormtooper homage to date and your vaunted Shadow Broker is crawling through vents because she's mildly menaced by two mooks.

No, I think it's easier to reconcile a failShep with this reality. If Shepard didn't do everything right, if he's an insufferable ****** and a moron to boot, who got everyone killed, and any survivors are wary and mistrustful, where he starts in ME3 and how it unfolds from there starts to flow a lot more smoothly. You can also play up the realistically shellshocked soldier angle, say it's all getting to him, the war, the losses. He's coming apart at the seams. Even those stupid nightmare sequences would have a place, though the damnable kid still doesn't.

I doubt it's the story any of us wanted. But... it is what it is.

I love this post. It articulates one of ME3's biggest problems so well. 

[MattFini]

StreetMagic wrote...

Is the story a stupid continuation from what came before? Of course. The way ME2 ends, you finally feel emboldened in an independent sort of way.. this is truly your own crew and you don't answer to anyone. Your favorite squadmates give you that nod and you finally feel ready for anything. Cue end credits.

I don't know what possessed them to make Shep strictly an Alliance type again and have everyone scattered to the four winds and giving Shep PTSD to boot.

Exactly. My canon Shep was actually okay with Cerberus at the end of ME2...at least from the perspective that they were providing everything needed to stop the reapers when nobody else would listen.

I hate how ME3 tries to paint Shep's days with Cerberus as a mistake, despite having been resurected by them which led to the obliteration of baby reap. 

I wanted an ME3 with the crew I left off with at the end 2. I'm still pretty sore about that one...

[Excella Gionne]

And no one cares if Jacob is dead........*tumbleweed*

[zed888]

CrutchCricket wrote...

zed888 wrote...

You could also get everybody including Shepard killed in ME2. Then 3 never happened. Hopefully Joker obeyed her last order and warned everybody.

Well if you go that route, might as well get it on with Morinth. Slightly more enjoyable way to go.

  That doesn't end the game though, right?  I never picked Morinth myself, but I thought you just get a "critical mission error".   With Shepard's death you get a proper ending.

[Excella Gionne]

StreetMagic wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

And no one cares if Jacob is dead........*tumbleweed*

I like having him alive. He's kind of my nod to the idea that there were some redeemable things about Cerberus. And his mission in ME3 extends that further. Plus, it's cool to have him and Jack exercising after the Citadel party. This is cooler to me than Miranda and Jack suddenly being friends. No way. And since I don't have Garrus for long, I need someone who can lead fire teams.

He's pretty boring in the Citadel Party at most. It's more fun watching Wrex, Zaeed, and Javik, pretend to engage in combat...

[MrMrPendragon]

johnnythao89 wrote...

And no one cares if Jacob is dead........*tumbleweed*

Yeah.

If Jacob wasn't around, I would've charmed Kasumi all the way to my cabin in ME2.

[Kelwing]

johnnythao89 wrote...

I make saves in Mass Effect 2 that are just right before the Suicide Mission. So my save had:
-Garrus
-Grunt
-Miranda
-Jacob
-Thane
-Mordin
-Kasumi
-Tali
-Jack
-Legion

Dead in Mass Effect 2 with Kaidan dead in Mass Effect 1. The remaining ones that lived were Zaeed and Samara, both unloyal. In Mass Effect 3, I let Samara take her own life, and Zaeed dies protecting the Volus Ambassador. Ashley dies durig the Citadel coup, and Wrex dies in the gun fight with Shepard. Eve dies by the Turian Bomb, and Wiks dies by being shot by Shepard. Anderson is shot by Illusive Man(dies regardless), and EDI is killed by Destroy. Cortez is shot down, and Liara and James die during the run to the beam. 

So in the end, the dead ones were:

-Garrus
-Grunt
-Miranda
-Jacob
-Thane
-Mordin
-Kasumi
-Tali
-Jack
-Legion
-Samara
-Zaeed
-Wrex
-Kaidan
-Ashley
-EDI
-Liara
-James
-Cortez
-Anderson
-Eve
-Padok Wiks

I was so sad, but I wanted to see how much people could I kill off. This was low to medium EMS Destroy, and so, Earth is devastated but not destroyed. Normandy crew lives as well.

Man a squadmate like you. Who needs to worry about Reapers

[DoomsdayDevice]

I've heard of people who tried this. I don't think it's possible to kill Liara though, or is it?

Then what does the memorial wall scene look like? Does Shepard's name plaque just float in the air?

[themikefest]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I've heard of people who tried this. I don't think it's possible to kill Liara though, or is it?

Then what does the memorial wall scene look like? Does Shepard's name plaque just float in the air?

T'soni will be killed if you take her on the beam run and your ems is below 1900.

I only had Traynor and Joker at the memorial wall scene.

[AlanC9]

Without her you don't know the Conduit is on Ilos.

It's kind of funny to leave her for last, though.

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:33 .

[Excella Gionne]

Kelwing wrote...



Man a squadmate like you. Who needs to worry about Reapers

I know right! Squadmates are worth more than 1,000 NPCs you don't know.

[Excella Gionne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I've heard of people who tried this. I don't think it's possible to kill Liara though, or is it?

Then what does the memorial wall scene look like? Does Shepard's name plaque just float in the air?

Traynor will put your name on the wall. I have had glitches where it was a floating plaque. Zaeed Massani doesn't even get a plaque unless he died in Mass Effect 2.

[Maximillion46]

johnnythao89 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I've heard of people who tried this. I don't think it's possible to kill Liara though, or is it?

Then what does the memorial wall scene look like? Does Shepard's name plaque just float in the air?

Traynor will put your name on the wall. I have had glitches where it was a floating plaque. Zaeed Massani doesn't even get a plaque unless he died in Mass Effect 2.

I saw the floating plaque in a vid xD it was hilarious. Might be when you don't talk to Traynor at all, one guy who did the mass squad mate killing spree, that she doesn't appear at the memorial wall (maybe because she gets killed, like Steve if you give him the silent treatment the whole game:p).

Modifié par Maximillion46, 10 janvier 2014 - 02:41 .

[themikefest]

StreetMagic wrote...

I've never had Zaeed's name show up on the wall regardless of when and how he died. I think? Another reason why I just kill him myself. In my Shepard's eyes, he's just that pissed off that he doesn't even put his name on the wall. lol. Either that or I just let him live on some playthroughs. But no accidental/mission deaths.

The same for me. I did a playthrough with Kasumi and Zaeed the only ones killed during the suicide mission and Kasumi's name was on the wall and Zaeed's name wasn't.

I did another playthrough had everyone die in ME2, except 2 squadmates,  Kasumi and Zaeed's name's were not on the wall.

[Excella Gionne]

StreetMagic wrote...

I've never had Zaeed's name show up on the wall regardless of when and how he died. I think? Another reason why I just kill him myself. In my Shepard's eyes, he's just that pissed off that he doesn't even put his name on the wall. lol. Either that or I just let him live on some playthroughs. But no accidental/mission deaths.

Zaeed won't show up on the wall if you purposely killed him on his Loyalty mission, I believe.

[robbo316]

CrutchCricket wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

It's consistent for me with just Garrus gone. Add in a couple of others, plus the people who are forced to die in ME3, and you're already looking at 5 or 6 deaths. If you take too long rescuing the Cerberus crew too, then Ken Donnelly is depressed if you bring him back. It's not the same atmosphere without Gabby or Garrus chatting away.

I'd never kill a love interest though, for sure. That's basically what happened to Thane. His wife was killed because of his stupidity and he was forever messed up by it. I don't think Shepard would be any different. The tone of ME3 is depressing, but not to the point where Shepard isn't functional or seeking his own death.

The problem is you can't actually be the "hero that does everything right" in ME3.

If you do everything right at the end of ME2 you finish with a full crew of the galaxy's best badasses on a ship that's OP against anything short of a Reaper, in one of the most impregnable positions in the galaxy, and being backed by a private network of spies and informants that would make even Palpatine envious. In other words you have the makings of your own empire, as well as ties and leverage into just about every government. You could if you were allowed to that is, give everyone a gun and point them in the direction the Reapers will be coming from, without them being any the wiser.

Cue ME3... you're in jail on bull**** charges so some ****s can gain political points with a race that's already dead, your ship's impounded and its upgrades gutted, your badasses are scattered, and apart from two notable examples appear to be doing ****-all of use while refusing to join you, your would-be sanctuary has been taken and thus sped up/enabled the launch of the worst stormtooper homage to date and your vaunted Shadow Broker is crawling through vents because she's mildly menaced by two mooks.

No, I think it's easier to reconcile a failShep with this reality. If Shepard didn't do everything right, if he's an insufferable ****** and a moron to boot, who got everyone killed, and any survivors are wary and mistrustful, where he starts in ME3 and how it unfolds from there starts to flow a lot more smoothly. You can also play up the realistically shellshocked soldier angle, say it's all getting to him, the war, the losses. He's coming apart at the seams. Even those stupid nightmare sequences would have a place, though the damnable kid still doesn't.

I doubt it's the story any of us wanted. But... it is what it is.

I have to pull you up here. The Batarian race was not already dead at the time when you were locked up, you seem to forget that you had been in lockup for nigh on a year when ME3 begins. If, of course, you play the Arrival DLC in ME2, the reason for being locked up is much easier to understand. As for the SR2, if you ever bother to actually look at the war assets, you would discover that all the upgrades are still there, even the minerals from planet scanning in 2 are handed over to the Alliance and give you war assets points (not many, but, every little helps!). As for the squadmates:

Zaeed - He is, after all, a merc. He takes cheques - no cheque, no Zaeed.
Samara - She is commited to fighting for the weak, so her own Justicar code demands that she must travel the galaxy.
Kasumi - Well, she's a thief. One can only assume that she's gone back to what she does best. She is, after all, wanted by several governments AND Spectre Jondum Bau. AND she has Keijis Greybox which "contains information that could start a war".
Grunt - He went back to Tuchanka, he is a Krogan after all. You do get a message in ME2 from the Urdnot Shaman that he is needed on Tuchanka, because he is the best hope for their race.
Thane - Cut the guy some slack, he's dying and wants to spend time with his son.
Miranda - She's on the run and in hiding, she does explain this to you when you meet up with her on the dock.
Tali - She has become an admiral of the Migrant Fleet. Quarians are not liked in the galaxy and I seriously doubt she could have done anything to help you. Besides, thanks to Xen and Gerrel, the Quarians have been dragged into their own war with the Geth.
Jacob - He's guarding the defected scientists.
Garrus - Has been working to shore up the defenses on Palaven.
Jack - Works for the Alliance at Grissom Academy.
Legion - Has been trying to sort things out with the Geth to try to avoid the inevitable war with the Quarians so as to be ready when the Reapers arrive.
Mordin - Back on Sur'Kesh, working with the STG as an advisor.

So, I think your statement about them "...apart from two notable examples appear to be doing ****-all of use while refusing to join you...", is a little off.

All in all, you seem to be someone who doesn't read anything that is available in the game, fast skips through all the conversations, and pays absolutely no attention to anything in the game.

[CrutchCricket]

[quote]robbo316 wrote...
I have to pull you up here. The Batarian race was not already dead at the time when you were locked up, you seem to forget that you had been in lockup for nigh on a year when ME3 begins. If, of course, you play the Arrival DLC in ME2, the reason for being locked up is much easier to understand.[/quote]
Actually isn't it closer to six months? A year between ME2 and 3 perhaps, but six months between Arrival and ME3. Regardless, the batarians weren't taken out in a day. They went dark long before ME3 starts.

In any case it doesn't matter. Stopping the Reapers > 300,000 batarians. I'm sorry but that's what it is. You think if the situations were reversed, the batarians would hesitate? Hell Hackett even agrees and admits it's all political. And none of this changes the fact that you had the capability to ignore the call and build everyone up in secret. Hell, if the batarians were actually that stupid that they launched some fleets at Earth, some of those might still have been kicking in ME3 to fight the Reapers.

[quote]As for the SR2, if you ever bother to actually look at the war assets, you would discover that all the upgrades are still there, even the minerals from planet scanning in 2 are handed over to the Alliance and give you war assets points (not many, but, every little helps!).
[/quote]You're back down to 30 probes instead of 60 and your fuel is 1000 instead of 1500. You also have zero indication that the shields or armor is still there and until the final battle where it's used a whopping total of one time, you have no idea if the thanix is still installed. And why should the minerals be given to the Alliance? I busted my ass orbiting each planet in each system I visited to get those minerals for my upgrades. Upgrades that I now have to spend cash for.

[quote]
As for the squadmates:
Zaeed - He is, after all, a merc. He takes cheques - no cheque, no Zaeed.[/quote]
Oh so can I use any of the credits I had during ME2 to keep him on? Or the credits in ME3 to hire him back? No? Well so much for that idea. PS. mercs like him usually take cash.

[quote]
Samara - She is commited to fighting for the weak, so her own Justicar code demands that she must travel the galaxy.[/quote]
And I'm doing what, sipping Bacardi's on the terrace?

[quote]
Kasumi - Well, she's a thief. One can only assume that she's gone back to what she does best. She is, after all, wanted by several governments AND Spectre Jondum Bau. AND she has Keijis Greybox which "contains information that could start a war".[/quote]
So much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin. First off if you saved the graybox she does nothing but mope around playing with it and refuses to care about the galactic extinction going on outside her window. Second of all, she clearly doesn't give a damn about her wanted level since she's right under Bau's nose with him being none the wiser and actively helps him while she's at it. And should I even mention Jack, whose heinous crimes far outweigh Kasumi's but who's apparently allowed to teach at one of the most important human facilities, seemingly on little more than Shepard's good word? Thirdly, while in ME2 Kasumi displayed a concern for the helpless and an ability to do more than steal (rescuing an artistic prodigy from slavers), also known as character depth, in ME3 you claim she's nothing more than a thief and Bioware itself seems utterly incapable of not beating that drum, even though in her casino scene in Citadel she says "Raiding Cerberus bases and Reaper-held locations is fun!" a contradiction to this bull**** after all, but apparently not enough of one to remove the moment of utter cowardice in the main game where she simply refuses to join up, not because she has something better to do but because she just doesn't want to... The amount of fail in all this is making me unable to end sentences properly so I'll just leave it there.

[quote]
Grunt - He went back to Tuchanka, he is a Krogan after all. You do get a message in ME2 from the Urdnot Shaman that he is needed on Tuchanka, because he is the best hope for their race.[/quote]
And the "best hope on Tuchanka" is... leading a random commando unit on a different planet altogether. Right...

[quote]
Thane - Cut the guy some slack, he's dying and wants to spend time with his son.[/quote]
Funny, he seemed fine at the end of ME2 with no indication that in 6 months he'd be useless. That's no one's fault but the writers'.

[quote]
Miranda - She's on the run and in hiding, she does explain this to you when you meet up with her on the dock.[/quote]
Even ignoring the massive amounts of fail in this, where's the safest place from assassins, if not on a stealth warship that regularly goes behind enemy lines?

[quote]
Tali - She has become an admiral of the Migrant Fleet. Quarians are not liked in the galaxy and I seriously doubt she could have done anything to help you. Besides, thanks to Xen and Gerrel, the Quarians have been dragged into their own war with the Geth.[/quote]
*facepalm*

[quote]
Jacob - He's guarding the defected scientists.
Garrus - Has been working to shore up the defenses on Palaven.
Jack - Works for the Alliance at Grissom Academy.[/quote]
*headdesk*

[quote]
Legion - Has been trying to sort things out with the Geth to try to avoid the inevitable war with the Quarians so as to be ready when the Reapers arrive.
Mordin - Back on Sur'Kesh, working with the STG as an advisor.

So, I think your statement about them "...apart from two notable examples appear to be doing ****-all of use while refusing to join you...", is a little off.

All in all, you seem to be someone who doesn't read anything that is available in the game, fast skips through all the conversations, and pays absolutely no attention to anything in the game.

[/quote]
*repeated headdesk until passed out.*

You seem to miss (or intentionally ignore) the fact that at the end of ME2 you were primely set-up to prevent all non-Reaper related bull**** that happens in ME3:
Cerberus? Use a combination of geth, Aria's forces, Shadow Broker resources and insider info to wipe them out. You would need to do this to secure the space beyond the Omega 4 relay for yourself since EDI no doubt sent the IFF back there before being unshackled. A space where you are untouchable until the Reapers arrive.
Omega- with Cerberus taken out, Aria is never unseated, merc army assembled that much faster.
Geth-quarian- Force quarian idiots to back off on making war on the geth by supporting the geth if necessary. Broker peace with no loss of resources, this also means geth don't go running to the Reapers and you have both at full strength ready to face the Reapers. Also means Legion can join you.
Genophage- force/broker early resolution of genophage. Geth on hand to help with logistics of having the krogan ready to fight. Also have time/resources to trick salarians into thinking cure is sabotaged so you get their support as well. Also leads to Mordin surviving and being able to join you.

The rest: You have an in with the asari government with Samara, given their culture's reverence of Justicars (Liara's perspective and newfound power also a plus), the same, to a lesser extent with the Turians via Garrus and his father. That just leaves the Alliance and batarians. The Alliance again going political will be on a witch hunt for you (and they can be subtly encouraged to make a show of it), the batarians will be genuinely on a witch hunt for you and perhaps arming up to finally wage war on the humans. And it all comes to a head when the Reapers finally show up. If they take out the batarians, that sucks but at least they were slightly more prepared (and as I said any forces away from Batarian space will still be useful in the war). At that point all you have to do is reveal your hand and bring the full might of the galaxy to bear on the Reapers. If we're true to what the Reapers are supposed to be you still won't win but you'll have better cover to build and deploy the Crucible where the Catalyst isn't a bull**** holokid Reaper overlord but some separate entity that offers you the choices. Or if the Reaper are actually smart, they take the Citadel right away and shut down the relays at which point we're either wiped out because we tried defending or it's just a matter of time. But at least everyone was smart about it.

There. A better ME3, one fitting for a Shepard that does everything right. What we got though... a series of failures on teh way to the biggest failure ever wrote, coded, animated and voice acted (not that the latter three had any fault, apart maybe from tech bugs), worthy of a failShep. And overall it's still a decently good game. That's what's so crazy about all this.