Almostfaceman wrote...
Let's not get all technical here, Reapers are unstoppable, beyond our comprehension, god-like. We should have just thrown up our hands and ran away to a different galaxy, screaming like little girls.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
AlanC9 wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
Let's not get all technical here, Reapers are unstoppable, beyond our comprehension, god-like. We should have just thrown up our hands and ran away to a different galaxy, screaming like little girls.
This is actually one of the more rational posts in the thread. The Reapers are as strong as Bio wanted them to be. Coming up with weapons against them is pointless since Bio would just come up with whatever defenses they needed.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 11 janvier 2014 - 12:00 .
AlanC9 wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
Let's not get all technical here, Reapers are unstoppable, beyond our comprehension, god-like. We should have just thrown up our hands and ran away to a different galaxy, screaming like little girls.
This is actually one of the more rational posts in the thread. The Reapers are as strong as Bio wanted them to be. Coming up with weapons against them is pointless since Bio would just come up with whatever defenses they needed.
Modifié par AlanC9, 11 janvier 2014 - 12:05 .
Guest_StreetMagic_*
AlanC9 wrote...
@ StreetMagic: Actually, it's about making the enemies into space battleships when you're not doing a starship combat game. If the Reapers had been weak enough for a conventional victory Shepard would have just been less important, though I suppose something could have been contrived to hide this.
RangerSG wrote...
The Crucible as a concept is fine. I'm even OK with seeds of it being passed down from cycle to cycle. Since the Reapers missed Ilos, it seems plausible that *some* cycles had enough time to realize the nature of the machines' trap and plan a way to defeat it. They could have used some variant of Liara's time-capsule plan to pass along their own efforts at what they thought would be the proper time.
The real issue, and where it becomes a Diabolus Ex Machina, is the Reaper-god jumping out and saying, "You can't fire this without MEEEE!"
No. Really. Seeing as the galaxy is being torched by AIs, why in the entire barking multiverse would ANY of the harvested races be so STUPID as to appeal to the overlord of their enemies? You think the "throw the machines out the airlock" Protheans would be trying to harness an AI? *ANY* AI?
The Crucible is fine as a superweapon concept. And many military Sci-fis come down to using (or avoiding being scorched by) such a construct. So it's genre consistent. But all I can think about the Starbrat is that someone read the Night's Dawn Trilogy with it's own (literal) DEM ending, or recalled Lorden from Babylon 5, and decided that embodying a super-consciousness in a child would be a good twist on those hind-quarter pulls.
Modifié par Psychevore, 11 janvier 2014 - 12:19 .
Obadiah wrote...
So long as everyone is talking about other ways the Reapers could have been defeated, besides military might (weapons, strategy, tactics), how else could the Reapers have been defeated, or made to stand down?
Obadiah wrote...
So long as everyone is talking about other ways the Reapers could have been defeated, besides military might (weapons, strategy, tactics), how else could the Reapers have been defeated, or made to stand down?
Br3ad wrote...
Slugs from dreadnaughts do more than nuclear bombs today. It's not as big of an advantage as one would thing.iakus wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
The problem I have with advanced guided missiles is the Reapers' swarms upon swarms of drones.
Anything we can do, they can do better.
Exactly. We'd have to use the entire inventory in one strike against a handful of Reapers just to have a measurable chance of success.
It's certainly not a magic bullet. It's not even a magic wand. But it would certainly do much to level the playing field. Reapers couldn't rely on massive kinetic barriers to make them nigh-invulnerable. Just getting one to explode near a Reaper could do damage to them.
It's a nuclear weapon. Close counts
Also, if a mere human like Joker can outfly a drone, an onboard VI should stand a chance, at least
StreetMagic wrote...
Damnit, I long for another Wing Commander.
We're talking about missles, Massively. Every nuclear missle isn't going to be an H-bomb.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
Slugs from dreadnaughts do more than nuclear bombs today. It's not as big of an advantage as one would thing.iakus wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
The problem I have with advanced guided missiles is the Reapers' swarms upon swarms of drones.
Anything we can do, they can do better.
Exactly. We'd have to use the entire inventory in one strike against a handful of Reapers just to have a measurable chance of success.
It's certainly not a magic bullet. It's not even a magic wand. But it would certainly do much to level the playing field. Reapers couldn't rely on massive kinetic barriers to make them nigh-invulnerable. Just getting one to explode near a Reaper could do damage to them.
It's a nuclear weapon. Close counts
Also, if a mere human like Joker can outfly a drone, an onboard VI should stand a chance, at least
Untrue. With what you're hitting a planet with from a dreadnought, you're making a blast about 3 times the yield of Little Boy (15 - 17 Kt). As far as yields go for the nuclear arsenal, that's not especially powerful. The biggest bomb ever detonated, the Tsar Bomba, had a yield of about 57 Mt. Most ICBM delivery systems carry a 5 Mt warhead, or multiple 1 megaton or high-kiloton warheads. The Russians were capable of building a 100+ Mt bomb, but it was slimmed down to 50 Mt due to concerns from fallout and long-term radiation effects, as well as simple unfeasibility. The 50 Mt bomb dropped (the Tsar Bomba, which had a higher than predicted yield due to the unpredictability of the yield calculations) was at best a display of power, as it would be simply to large and unwieldy to practically field. The reasoning for the larger yield warheads back in the day was due to a lack of precision coordination for the delivery systems. The Russians especially built larger yield weapons due to their lack of precise striking capability, whereas the Americans could build smaller yield warheads due to their capability in that aspect.
AlanC9 wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
Damnit, I long for another Wing Commander.
Me too. Funny how similar the ME and WC3 dialogue systems are.
Obadiah wrote...
So long as everyone is talking about other ways the Reapers could have been defeated, besides military might (weapons, strategy, tactics), how else could the Reapers have been defeated, or made to stand down?
Br3ad wrote...
We're talking about missles, Massively. Every nuclear missle isn't going to be an H-bomb.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
Slugs from dreadnaughts do more than nuclear bombs today. It's not as big of an advantage as one would thing.iakus wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
The problem I have with advanced guided missiles is the Reapers' swarms upon swarms of drones.
Anything we can do, they can do better.
Exactly. We'd have to use the entire inventory in one strike against a handful of Reapers just to have a measurable chance of success.
It's certainly not a magic bullet. It's not even a magic wand. But it would certainly do much to level the playing field. Reapers couldn't rely on massive kinetic barriers to make them nigh-invulnerable. Just getting one to explode near a Reaper could do damage to them.
It's a nuclear weapon. Close counts
Also, if a mere human like Joker can outfly a drone, an onboard VI should stand a chance, at least
Untrue. With what you're hitting a planet with from a dreadnought, you're making a blast about 3 times the yield of Little Boy (15 - 17 Kt). As far as yields go for the nuclear arsenal, that's not especially powerful. The biggest bomb ever detonated, the Tsar Bomba, had a yield of about 57 Mt. Most ICBM delivery systems carry a 5 Mt warhead, or multiple 1 megaton or high-kiloton warheads. The Russians were capable of building a 100+ Mt bomb, but it was slimmed down to 50 Mt due to concerns from fallout and long-term radiation effects, as well as simple unfeasibility. The 50 Mt bomb dropped (the Tsar Bomba, which had a higher than predicted yield due to the unpredictability of the yield calculations) was at best a display of power, as it would be simply to large and unwieldy to practically field. The reasoning for the larger yield warheads back in the day was due to a lack of precision coordination for the delivery systems. The Russians especially built larger yield weapons due to their lack of precise striking capability, whereas the Americans could build smaller yield warheads due to their capability in that aspect.
JShepppp wrote...
What I liked about the Crucible was (maybe weird but whatever) its powerful symbolism. It was an act of defiance from all the races that the Reapers had oppressed, as if they had all teamed up together against them. It felt grander in scope. It also answered the question of how we could defeat them with the clear technological gap.
It's true that not all races may have found/contributed to the Crucible, and there may have been other projects - maybe they were integrated together (e.g. 700 cycles made the destroy crucible, 600th cycle considered control, 500th cycle found both and combined them, 400th cycle thought of synthesis and added it, etc. etc.). The possibilities are endless in that regard.
I kind of like the idea of the Reapers being militarily unbeatable. They've beening fighting battles for millions of years so why would we be able to win? I think forcing them to stand down somehow was the only way the story could really end. I would have rather some kind of contest of logical arguments or something, or predictive science to prove the other is wrong.ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Obadiah wrote...
So long as everyone is talking about other ways the Reapers could have been defeated, besides military might (weapons, strategy, tactics), how else could the Reapers have been defeated, or made to stand down?
I always imagined the Council utilizing the networking capabilities of the Citadel to stall the Reapers, forcing them to trudge through the galaxy on foot, so to speak. Throw in some clever strategies and those Leviathan artifact things and the Organics have a party.
I suppose you could look at the Crucible as a product of the chaos of Organics - that's why it ends up with these divergent capabilities.JShepppp wrote...
What I liked about the Crucible was (maybe weird but whatever) its powerful symbolism. It was an act of defiance from all the races that the Reapers had oppressed, as if they had all teamed up together against them. It felt grander in scope. It also answered the question of how we could defeat them with the clear technological gap.
It's true that not all races may have found/contributed to the Crucible, and there may have been other projects - maybe they were integrated together (e.g. 700 cycles made the destroy crucible, 600th cycle considered control, 500th cycle found both and combined them, 400th cycle thought of synthesis and added it, etc. etc.). The possibilities are endless in that regard.
JShepppp wrote...
What I liked about the Crucible was (maybe weird but whatever) its powerful symbolism. It was an act of defiance from all the races that the Reapers had oppressed, as if they had all teamed up together against them. It felt grander in scope. It also answered the question of how we could defeat them with the clear technological gap.
It's true that not all races may have found/contributed to the Crucible, and there may have been other projects - maybe they were integrated together (e.g. 700 cycles made the destroy crucible, 600th cycle considered control, 500th cycle found both and combined them, 400th cycle thought of synthesis and added it, etc. etc.). The possibilities are endless in that regard.
Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 11 janvier 2014 - 03:33 .
Obadiah wrote...
I kind of like the idea of the Reapers being militarily unbeatable. They've beening fighting battles for millions of years so why would we be able to win? I think forcing them to stand down somehow was the only way the story could really end. I would have rather some kind of contest of logical arguments or something, or predictive science to prove the other is wrong.ImaginaryMatter wrote...
I always imagined the Council utilizing the networking capabilities of the Citadel to stall the Reapers, forcing them to trudge through the galaxy on foot, so to speak. Throw in some clever strategies and those Leviathan artifact things and the Organics have a party.
Oh well...
Psychevore wrote...
RangerSG wrote...
The Crucible as a concept is fine. I'm even OK with seeds of it being passed down from cycle to cycle. Since the Reapers missed Ilos, it seems plausible that *some* cycles had enough time to realize the nature of the machines' trap and plan a way to defeat it. They could have used some variant of Liara's time-capsule plan to pass along their own efforts at what they thought would be the proper time.
The real issue, and where it becomes a Diabolus Ex Machina, is the Reaper-god jumping out and saying, "You can't fire this without MEEEE!"
No. Really. Seeing as the galaxy is being torched by AIs, why in the entire barking multiverse would ANY of the harvested races be so STUPID as to appeal to the overlord of their enemies? You think the "throw the machines out the airlock" Protheans would be trying to harness an AI? *ANY* AI?
The Crucible is fine as a superweapon concept. And many military Sci-fis come down to using (or avoiding being scorched by) such a construct. So it's genre consistent. But all I can think about the Starbrat is that someone read the Night's Dawn Trilogy with it's own (literal) DEM ending, or recalled Lorden from Babylon 5, and decided that embodying a super-consciousness in a child would be a good twist on those hind-quarter pulls.
I don't think the Protheans had any realization about the Catalyst.
As a sidenote: The Catalyst HAD to have known the Protheans were there to screw with the Keepers, which only leads me to conclude that the Catalyst knows everything the Reapers know, but the Reapers do NOT know what the Catalyst knows.
JShepppp wrote...
What I liked about the Crucible was (maybe weird but whatever) its powerful symbolism. It was an act of defiance from all the races that the Reapers had oppressed, as if they had all teamed up together against them. It felt grander in scope. It also answered the question of how we could defeat them with the clear technological gap.
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:27 .
Retour en haut
