493 réponses à ce sujet

[Cribbian]

Arcian wrote...

The Crucible does not make sense. It never has and never will.

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Not really, because whether or not an action makes sense depends on the available alternative actions. Any chance beats zero chance.

Flase. Conventional means have proven to be effective against Reaper force, devoting massive amounts of resources to something of a unkown purpose is deemed nonsensical. 

That's silly. Japan had the ability to sink US warships up until the very last day of the war. This did not mean that by 1945 Japan had any ability whatsoever to avoid defeat. The organics are in the same position.

[Obadiah]

Victory using established/conventional methods:

Ram the Charon relay while all the Reapers are on Earth. That Destroys Earth, the Reapers on Earth, and the Catalyst/Crucible (so the Reaper's leader), and carries the theme of sacrifice as well. Now that I think about it, smashing all the Relays at major Reaper invasion sites would set the Reapers back substantially. We'd just need to evacuate enough people to survive.

It's creepily similar to terrorist suicide attacks.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:10 .

[Chashan]

Obadiah wrote...

Victory using established/conventional methods:

Ram the Charon relay while all the Reapers are on Earth. That Destroys Earth, the Reapers on Earth, and the Catalyst/Crucible (so the Reaper's leader), and carries the theme of sacrifice as well. Now that I think about it, smashing all the Relays at major Reaper invasion sites would set the Reapers back substantially. We'd just need to evacuate enough people to survive.

It's creepily similar to terrorist suicide attacks.

Yet again, undeniably more heroic than being elevated to the decision chamber.

Won't lie, between the two I'd rather have this.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Obadiah wrote...

Victory using established/conventional methods:

Ram the Charon relay while all the Reapers are on Earth. That Destroys Earth, the Reapers on Earth, and the Catalyst/Crucible (so the Reaper's leader), and carries the theme of sacrifice as well. Now that I think about it, smashing all the Relays at major Reaper invasion sites would set the Reapers back substantially. We'd just need to evacuate enough people to survive.

It's creepily similar to terrorist suicide attacks.

I always thought of it as a kamikaze (a very big one), although I guess they are very similar.

[Obadiah]

You just know if Shep picks the Refuse option and the battle goes south, the Turians will pull a Kamikazi to do this.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

Themes of sacrifice suck too. We're gamers. Not catholics. Well, not necessarily at least.

I liked it better when you had a choice in that.

Normandy crashes at the beginning of the suicide misson:

Miranda: "Well, we all knew this would be a one way trip."

RenShep: "I have no plans of throwing my life away."

Joker: *sign* I'm glad you're in charge.

"There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

"Let's get it done and go home"

"But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone"

Somehow, that all became irrelevant at the end

[rapscallioness]

Tbh, I think the real reason we got the Crucible and Catalyst--and that's all. Is because they ran out of resources.

Having that whole scene, and just that, is alot less resource intensive than the epic battles even a semi-conventional win would have entailed.

I think they had to come up w/something that could wrap things up on the cheap.

[StarcloudSWG]

The Crucible only 'makes sense' if you think of it as a weapon of the Leviathans. A long shot plan to wipe out their creation.

The only way for the plans to have survived cycle after cycle is if it was deliberately re-seeded every time the plans were lost, and the only continuous presence in the galaxy, other than the Reapers, are the Leviathans.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Themes of sacrifice suck too. We're gamers. Not catholics. Well, not necessarily at least.

I liked it better when you had a choice in that.

Normandy crashes at the beginning of the suicide misson:

Miranda: "Well, we all knew this would be a one way trip."

RenShep: "I have no plans of throwing my life away."

Joker: *sign* I'm glad you're in charge.

"There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

"Let's get it done and go home"

"But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone"

Somehow, that all became irrelevant at the end

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:32 .

[David7204]

Obadiah wrote...

Victory using established/conventional methods:

Ram the Charon relay while all the Reapers are on Earth. That Destroys Earth, the Reapers on Earth, and the Catalyst/Crucible (so the Reaper's leader), and carries the theme of sacrifice as well. Now that I think about it, smashing all the Relays at major Reaper invasion sites would set the Reapers back substantially. We'd just need to evacuate enough people to survive.

It's creepily similar to terrorist suicide attacks.

No. This would be dumb. And it would never work, for several reasons.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:34 .

[Chashan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant.

Barely.

Mind you, if the thing were raw M.A.D. and holding down the fort until its timer ticked down to zero was what's happening we'd have something there.
Instead, the bomb talks back, which can be funny in certain circumstances, just not when it comes to the Catalyst.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

No. This would be dumb. And it would never work, for several reasons.

Which conventional methods wouldn't be dumb, and would actually work against the potential of thousands of Reapers? 

Actual methods. Examples. If they're easy to come up with, dish 'em out. 

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant. 

It's as relevant as the kingdom's treasury in Fable 3.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

No. This would be dumb. And it would never work, for several reasons.

... That you failed to list or acknowledge. All we have is your disapproval. Which isn't a compelling argument.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

"There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

"Let's get it done and go home"

"But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone"

Somehow, that all became irrelevant at the end

IMO, idiots who say those deserve their fate.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:40 .

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant. 

It's as relevant as the kingdom's treasury in Fable 3.

Is this where I play my false equivalency card?

[David7204]

There are no magic wands. The galactic would have several advantages to leverage. For instance, the Reapers generally need to be where their populations are, and generally need push their attack everywhere at once. That can obviously be leveraged by bottleneck tactics. Ground warfare also carries lots of tactical potential. Billions of troops and millions of vehicles could do damage.

Of course, it we're talking ideal rewrites, it would be trivial to introduce a couple of technologies that would make players feel better about the Reapers ability to bomb everything from orbit. (How effective that would actually be is very difficult to say.) Planetary shielding, electronic warfare, things of that sort.

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

"There's always hope.  It's what's gotten us this far"

"Let's get it done and go home"

"But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone"

Somehow, that all became irrelevant at the end

IMO, idiots who say those deserve their fate.

And how is this different from "I intend to live through this?" 

Besides expressing confidence that others will live too?

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant. 

It's as relevant as the kingdom's treasury in Fable 3.

This reference went right by me. What 's the CliffsNotes version?

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Is this where I play my false equivalency card?

No, because you get that magic number high enough and you don't need anyone from the game.

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That you failed to list or acknowledge. All we have is your disapproval. Which isn't a compelling argument.

It's not obvious?

First of all, the explosions moves slower than light, so the Reapers would simply jump to FTL and avoid it. So it would accomplish nothing except blowing up Earth.

Secondly, it would almost certainly take weeks or months to rig an asteroid to ram a relay, and it would be a sitting duck the entire time. In addition, it would have be done fairly close to the relay itself.

[ImaginaryMatter]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. This would be dumb. And it would never work, for several reasons.

... That you failed to list or acknowledge. All we have is your disapproval. Which isn't a compelling argument.

Poor writing... thematically terrible... David didn't come up with it... something, something heroism...