493 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope.  Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated.  Still relevant. 

It's as relevant as the kingdom's treasury in Fable 3.

This reference went right by me. What 's the CliffsNotes version?

Once your character takes control of the kingdom, you have a treasury.  the amount of money you have in it by endgame determines how your nation fares in the coming war.  You need "x" amount to get the "good ending"  As you rule the nation, you make decisions that will add or subtract from the nations treasury.

But, you can keep adventuring too.  And collect rent on properties you own and use that to add to the treasury.

So, you do enough side missions, collect enough rent, and it really doesn't matter how you govern your kingdom, you will still hit that magic number to ensure the optimal ending.

Does that system sound familiar? 

[ImaginaryMatter]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That you failed to list or acknowledge. All we have is your disapproval. Which isn't a compelling argument.

It's not obvious?

First of all, the explosions moves slower than light, so the Reapers would simply jump to FTL and avoid it. So it would accomplish nothing except blowing up Earth.

Secondly, it would almost certainly take weeks or months to rig an asteroid to ram a relay, and it would be a sitting duck the entire time. In addition, it would have be done fairly close to the relay itself.

The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light. And given the level of tech in the MEU it would probably be a rather simple and quick matter to destabilize the Charon Relay and have it crash into Pluto.

But no references to bad writing or being narratively awful David and just embracing the science? Are you growing as a person, David?

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 09 janvier 2014 - 07:53 .

[CynicalShep]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope. Without the support of everyone as a front of defense and stalling tactic, let alone for raw assistance in construction, the Crucible wouldn't have been built and the Reapers would not have been defeated. Still relevant.

It's as relevant as the kingdom's treasury in Fable 3.

This reference went right by me. What 's the CliffsNotes version?

Once your character takes control of the kingdom, you have a treasury. the amount of money you have in it by endgame determines how your nation fares in the coming war. You need "x" amount to get the "good ending" As you rule the nation, you make decisions that will add or subtract from the nations treasury.

But, you can keep adventuring too. And collect rent on properties you own and use that to add to the treasury.

So, you do enough side missions, collect enough rent, and it really doesn't matter how you govern your kingdom, you will still hit that magic number to ensure the optimal ending.

Does that system sound familiar?

Replace rent with taxes and that's pretty much RL right there

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

There are no magic wands. The galactic would have several advantages to leverage. For instance, the Reapers generally need to be where their populations are, and generally need push their attack everywhere at once. That can obviously be leveraged by bottleneck tactics. Ground warfare also carries lots of tactical potential. Billions of troops and millions of vehicles could do damage.

Ground warfare against a Reaper. Glad you're not in charge.

I distinctly remember you always saying how a bajillion dreadnoughts won't matter, yet you seem to think billions of troops (which I think is a very highly exaggerated count) and millions of ground vehicles (of which is also a very highly exaggerated count). I don't know how you're pulling this out of the ground. And what the hell use is ground warfare when the Reapers can up and fly away to orbit and kill you from there? Or distract your forces with their own indoctrinated terror troops?

And your tactical solution is incorrect. A handfull of  Reapers with a small number of Destroyers can lay siege to an entire system. And they vastly outnumber us on scales that matter. They can afford to attack more planets than we can defend. And they clearly concentrate their forces in surges. They don't need to push the attack everywhere at once. They have the numbers and firepower to back themselves up. I don't know what a bottleneck tactic is. I've certainly never heard of a  battle drill or strategy for it. Was it in some Hollywood film or something?

Of course, it we're talking ideal rewrites, it would be trivial to introduce a couple of technologies that would make players feel better about the Reapers ability to bomb everything from orbit. (How effective that would actually be is very difficult to say.) Planetary shielding, electronic warfare, things of that sort.

Of course when it comes to ideal rewrites, you'd be able to do whatever the hell you want. A little thing called reality warping. Change it enough, and it wouldn't even be Mass Effect anymore.

But yes, I can see the benefits of ideal rewrites, namely not making the story about Reapers and getting rid of the eldritch abomination mechanic.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That you failed to list or acknowledge. All we have is your disapproval. Which isn't a compelling argument.

It's not obvious?

First of all, the explosions moves slower than light, so the Reapers would simply jump to FTL and avoid it. So it would accomplish nothing except blowing up Earth.

Secondly, it would almost certainly take weeks or months to rig an asteroid to ram a relay, and it would be a sitting duck the entire time. In addition, it would have be done fairly close to the relay itself.

There we are! Yes, those are flaws. 

And what's you're alternative solution for a conventional victory that doesn't require a rewrite of the Reapers capabilities?

[rapscallioness]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

The Crucible only 'makes sense' if you think of it as a weapon of the Leviathans. A long shot plan to wipe out their creation.

The only way for the plans to have survived cycle after cycle is if it was deliberately re-seeded every time the plans were lost, and the only continuous presence in the galaxy, other than the Reapers, are the Leviathans.

Actually that would make sense.

But then when Shep was down there chatting them up, they wanted to keep Shep for study. They just figured it was a lost cause. Nobody could defeat the Reapers. Shep had to use those persuasion skills to get them to fight.

So, I don't think they left it, although that would have been a nice link, imo.

[AlanC9]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

Source? It's a blatant violation of the lore, so you need some fairly compelling evidence.

And given the level of tech in the MEU it would probably be a rather simple and quick matter to destabilize the Charon Relay and have it crash into Pluto.

Huh? It wasn't all that easy in Arrival.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Is this where I play my false equivalency card?

No, because you get that magic number high enough and you don't need anyone from the game.

That's the problem with "grinding" in just about any game where it's allowed.

From a story standpoint, erecting the Crucible is a different ball of wax. 

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...


Once your character takes control of the kingdom, you have a treasury.  the amount of money you have in it by endgame determines how your nation fares in the coming war.  You need "x" amount to get the "good ending"  As you rule the nation, you make decisions that will add or subtract from the nations treasury.

But, you can keep adventuring too.  And collect rent on properties you own and use that to add to the treasury.

So, you do enough side missions, collect enough rent, and it really doesn't matter how you govern your kingdom, you will still hit that magic number to ensure the optimal ending.

Does that system sound familiar? 

Planet scanning in ME3 still gets you multi-racial resources. It's boring and it reduces the impact of some of the major decisions in the game but that theme of needing to gather resources and get help from multiple races is still apparent.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Once your character takes control of the kingdom, you have a treasury.  the amount of money you have in it by endgame determines how your nation fares in the coming war.  You need "x" amount to get the "good ending"  As you rule the nation, you make decisions that will add or subtract from the nations treasury.

But, you can keep adventuring too.  And collect rent on properties you own and use that to add to the treasury.

So, you do enough side missions, collect enough rent, and it really doesn't matter how you govern your kingdom, you will still hit that magic number to ensure the optimal ending.

Does that system sound familiar? 

A little. Worse, actually, since you don't have to wreck ME3 SP by playing MP, but it sounds like you have to skip content in Fable 3.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:01 .

[Br3admax]

Fable III? Content? Riiiight. I liked the game, but I'm not going to pretend that it wasn't as cut and dry as saltines.

[David7204]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

You have no evidence.

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
And given the level of tech in the MEU it would probably be a rather simple and quick matter to destabilize the Charon Relay and have it crash into Pluto.

Even if there was a way to do it, you seem to be under the impression that the Reapers are going to sit by and do nothing while the galactic forces fiddle with the relay. Which is silly.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:04 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

You have no evidence.

So he's just as correct as you are when you go on about Liara's "training"?

Excellent!

[Obadiah]

Well obviously we would distract the Reapers somehow, if only to get rid of the one Reaper guarding the Relay. Maybe send in the Normandy and have it fly around pinging stuff.

[David7204]

Imagine for a moment, a mission after the Rannoch arc. You have Shepard about to land on some planet to take care of a mission. Before she does, however, we have a cutscene of a few Sovereign class Reapers occupying the planet. Maybe a half dozen.

We then see a cutscene of geth and quarian forces swarming in, dividing themselves up, blowing the Reapers across the planet to bits. Maybe cleaning up a a few destroyers afterwards.

Simple and clean. And plausible. The geth and quarian fleets are certainly large enough to accomplish such a task. A few dozen dreadnoughts, who knows how many cruisers and frigates. Hundreds, probably. As the codex says, attackers always have the advantage.

And the scene is really not given much weight. The Reapers are dead, the bulk of the fleets head back through relay to deal with something else while perhaps a few dozen ships stay behind as clean up, and the mission proceeds. There's a few lines of dialogue acknowledging the success, but the story shifts to whatever Shepard is dealing with planetside.

If such a scene existed, I guarantee you the BSN, or at least a significant number of people on it, would be shrieking it's lungs out the conventional victory was not only possible, but even easy.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:13 .

[AlanC9]

Obadiah wrote...

Well obviously we would distract the Reapers somehow, if only to get rid of the one Reaper guarding the Relay. Maybe send in the Normandy and have it fly around pinging stuff.

Wouldn't they monitor it with comm relay buoys rather than an actual Reaper?

[ImaginaryMatter]

AlanC9 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

Source? It's a blatant violation of the lore, so you need some fairly compelling evidence.

And given the level of tech in the MEU it would probably be a rather simple and quick matter to destabilize the Charon Relay and have it crash into Pluto.

Huh? It wasn't all that easy in Arrival.

As Shepard watches the screen of the destruction caused by the Relay the explosion seems to take out all the planets in the system in the course of about 5 seconds.

Destabilizng a satellites orbit is much easier (in terms of energy required) than moving something as big as an asteroid into something else. It's cheesy but not cheesier things have been done in ME.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

We then see a cutscene of geth and quarian forces swarming in, dividing themselves up, blowing the Reapers across the planet to bits. Maybe cleaning up a a few destroyers afterwards.

See, you just toss that out there as if they're treating fleas or something. 

[David7204]

They have the numbers. Why not?

[dreamgazer]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

David7204 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

You have no evidence.

So he's just as correct as you are when you go on about Liara's "training"?

Excellent!

The almighty question mark, where all the magic happens. 

[Br3admax]

"The quarian fleet is strong enough to plow up a few Reaper capital ships, at once, when they could barely even take out the Destroyer on Rannoch. Because the geth make up the difference"

Oookay. That makes a lot of sense.

Modifié par Br3ad, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .

[AlanC9]

David7204 wrote...

If such a scene existed, I guarantee you the BSN, or at least a significant number of people on it, would be shrieking it's lungs out the conventional victory was not only possible, but even easy.

I gotta go with David on this one. It's hard to shut that argument up even now.

[David7204]

What happened on Rannoch was somewhat stupid. But thankfully, easily fixed. Simply have the quarians make it clear they can only devote a very small fraction of their firepower to Shepard since their fleet needs to be focused on holding the geth off.

If you'd like, you could even have the quarians say they're going to calibrate their firepower (in other words, weaken it) to not kill Shepard by shockwaves or whatever. Two birds with one stone.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 08:21 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

David7204 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The explosion from the Arrival DLC seemed to have moved faster than light.

You have no evidence.

Notice how fast the explosion takes out the system.

Even if there was a way to do it, you seem to be under the impression that the Reapers are going to sit by and do nothing while the galactic forces fiddle with the relay. Which is silly.

Sure why not. The Reapers did it in ME3, the Reapers do it in a conventional victory scenario.