493 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Assumptions. They are absolute truth when I say so.

Modifié par Br3ad, 09 janvier 2014 - 09:40 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...
Whatever happened or didn't happen on Rannoch is really irrelevant.

So you're just dismissing counter-evidence that goes against your headcanon.

What is relevant is that my proposal address every issue.

Except all the ones that I raised. Every single one of them.

The quarians fire on Rannoch with only a very fraction of their fleet, holding back their firepower as to not harm Shepard.

Established lore in the game says otherwise. This is a complete lie.

The one Reaper is dead, the Reapers as a whole are still titanically powerful, and further successes against Reapers remain plausible.

Small, insignificant successes on a relative scale. You have no shot against the bigger ones in space unless you have a fleet of dreadnoughts that you don't have. 

Everybody wins.

With the Crucible, yes.

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...

The one Reaper is dead, the Reapers as a whole are still titanically powerful, and further successes against Reapers remain plausible.

Based on what? Entirely rewriting the power tiers of everyone so the galaxy has superior firepower and/or numbers? Then this isn't even the same story. Why don't you go rewrite LotR so Aragorn kills Morgoth in a duel while you're at it?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 09 janvier 2014 - 09:41 .

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

This is first year law school stuff. Presumption of innocence. Based on exactly the same reasoning and has exactly the same merit as the one used in court.

All rise. The honorable David7204 presiding.

You may procede your honor.

[David7204]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Based on what? Entirely rewriting the power tiers of everyone so the galaxy has superior firepower and/or numbers? Then this isn't even the same story. Why don't you go rewrite LotR so Aragorn kills Morgoth in a duel while you're at it?

Hardly. Rewriting a few lines of dialogues on Rannoch to eliminate discrepencies in the lore.

It's exactly the same story. Please don't waste my time with foolish nonsense.

[von uber]

David7204 wrote...

The quarians fire on Rannoch with only a very fraction of their fleet, holding back their firepower as to not harm Shepard.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Established lore in the game says otherwise. This is a complete lie.

Sorry, you are wrong on this point.

Modifié par von uber, 09 janvier 2014 - 09:45 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...
No. Wrong. The Reapers are limited to slower-than-light sensors like the rest of the galaxy. If the quarians and geth advance at FTL, they'll reach the Reapers before being detected by passive sensors and will be too far out of range for active sensors.

And the Quarians and the Geth get this amazing capability to move beyond Reaper sensors where? Where is this information even coming from? Where is the real evidence for this?

Cause all I'm seeing is a giant ass. With a really big hand pulling a turd out of it.

Like I said Dreamgazer, the attacker always has the advantage. So no, this complaint has no merit whatsoever.

I think you should learn a few things about Battle Drills in the U.S. Army. I can link you a pdf with the Infantry field manual to explain this.

Also, how exactly is 'superior firepower' not an answer when destroying a durable enemy? is that not precisely the purpose of superior firepower in the first place? Destroying enemies?

Except you really don't have superior firepower. You have quantity in firepower, but you don't have superior firepower.

Ever hear of the old German King Tiger tank from WWII? There were stories of 6 or 7 U.S. Sherman tanks against just one of them, and the Shermans were completely unable to damage the Tiger. The rounds just bounced right off. And the Tiger picked them apart slowly and steadily. 

[David7204]

As I literally just said, it makes no difference. Conventional victory would be a rewrite of ME 3 anyway, so this is just a small detail. All the themes and conflicts are still perfectly intact. The Reapers are still incredibly powerful, yet not immune to enough firepower.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

von uber wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The quarians fire on Rannoch with only a very fraction of their fleet, holding back their firepower as to not harm Shepard.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Established lore in the game says otherwise. This is a complete lie.

Sorry, you are wrong on this point.

Where is your real evidence beyond cut scene and graphic animation limitation?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Based on what? Entirely rewriting the power tiers of everyone so the galaxy has superior firepower and/or numbers? Then this isn't even the same story. Why don't you go rewrite LotR so Aragorn kills Morgoth in a duel while you're at it?

Hardly. Rewriting a few lines of dialogues on Rannoch to eliminate discrepencies in the lore.

It's exactly the same story. Please don't waste my time with foolish nonsense.

Then don't waste ours with yours. 

Anywho, we owe you nothing.

[David7204]

I'd like to wrap this up. Dreamgazer, do you have any more questions for me to answer?

[Br3admax]

I have one, why are you so obtuse? 359 degrees?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

As I literally just said, it makes no difference. Conventional victory would be a rewrite of ME 3 anyway, so this is just a small detail. All the themes and conflicts are still perfectly intact. The Reapers are still incredibly powerful, yet not immune to enough firepower.

So you'd rewrite ME3 to have a bajillion dreadnoughts after constantly whining about how having a bajillion dreadnoughts wouldn't be plausible.

They're not immune to enough firepower. It's just that to have enough firepower, you need something a lot stronger than the Reapers. 

An entire fleet takes multiple salvo's to destroy a Reaper. So unless you want to magic a million ships into existence, you're not going to win this way.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I'd like to wrap this up. Dreamgazer, do you have any more questions for me to answer?

Just one.

Are you going to answer our questions?

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

We then see a cutscene of geth and quarian forces swarming in, dividing themselves up, blowing the Reapers across the planet to bits. Maybe cleaning up a a few destroyers afterwards. 

Just wondering, do Geth and Quarians attack from behind or from the front? I would believe this if each reaper was isolated from other reapers.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

I'd like to wrap this up. Dreamgazer, do you have any more questions for me to answer?

Nope, just the ones you didn't properly address, namely why this hasn't happened in previous comparably-advanced cycles and why the "defenders" aren't responding once attacked.

[David7204]

They would be isolated. Spaced around the industrial areas of the planet, likely hundreds of miles away from each other or more.

As for 'behind' or 'from the front,' I'm not sure what meaning that has for a bombardment from space. They attack from above.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 09:55 .

[Steelcan]

*reads thread*

*dies a little on the inside*

[ImaginaryMatter]

David7204 wrote...

They would be isolated. Spaced around the industrial areas of the planet, likely hundreds of miles away from each other or more.

As for 'behind' or 'from the front,' I'm not sure what meaning that has for a bombardment from space. They attack from above.

Hundreds of miles isn't really isolation when FTL speeds are available.

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

They would be isolated. Spaced around the industrial areas of the planet, likely hundreds of miles away from each other or more.

As for 'behind' or 'from the front,' I'm not sure what meaning that has for a bombardment from space. They attack from above.

It makes a difference. We know firing at the front of a reaper they are very strong, but has anybody tried firing at the back of a reaper?

[David7204]

dreamgazer wrote...

Nope, just the ones you didn't properly address, namely why this hasn't happened in previous comparably-advanced cycles and why the "defenders" aren't responding once attacked.

I've answered both of those question, Dreamgazer. Are you having difficulty understand the post where I explictly said it's likely happened in previous cycles? I responded elegantly to your silly comment about sensors. All you really seem to have is some notion that superior firepower is pointless against the Reapers. Ironic, given that such a notion is likely based in the same 'magic wands' I've taken great care to avoid. You look at one victory and assume yourself it's a magic wand. Tsk tsk tsk. Very shortsighted.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 10:00 .

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. Rewriting a few lines of dialogues on Rannoch to eliminate discrepencies in the lore.

It's exactly the same story. Please don't waste my time with foolish nonsense.

That's not all you're doing, though, since you asserted that similar victories elsewhere are also plausible. I'm wondering how this is so without rewriting the story to allow the galaxy to have enough firepower and/or numbers to defend or reconquer more planets than the Reapers can conquer.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 09 janvier 2014 - 10:00 .

[von uber]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


Where is your real evidence beyond cut scene and graphic animation limitation?

Er... isn't evidence from the game kind of the best evidence? How is 4 ships firing ina  pre-rendered cutscene which shows the Quarian fleet firing a graphical limitation given that in the same game we see the entire allied fleet firing during the final space battle?
That makes no sense. You can't have it both ways, either believe in what the game shows and argue from there, or don't and just make stuff up.

For what it is worth, incidentally, I agree with Hackett. We can't win conventionally. He should know this kind of thing.

[David7204]

themikefest wrote...

David7204 wrote...

They would be isolated. Spaced around the industrial areas of the planet, likely hundreds of miles away from each other or more.

As for 'behind' or 'from the front,' I'm not sure what meaning that has for a bombardment from space. They attack from above.

It makes a difference. We know firing at the front of a reaper they are very strong, but has anybody tried firing at the back of a reaper?

Well, there's no reason they wouldn't have that information, so yes, if it makes a difference, you can be assured they would indeed be firing on the back the Reapers.

Modifié par David7204, 09 janvier 2014 - 10:01 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

They would be isolated. Spaced around the industrial areas of the planet, likely hundreds of miles away from each other or more.

As for 'behind' or 'from the front,' I'm not sure what meaning that has for a bombardment from space. They attack from above.

The Reapers thankfully don't isolate themselves from each other. Rannoch and Tuchanka were exceptions to this, and it certainly wasn't the long term case for Tuchanka. When Reapers attack, they attack en masse. So that whole plan is fried there. To say otherwise is to change observable Reaper doctrine.

And the Reapers can shoot back. The Rannoch Reaper did shoot back. And give it enough time, it shoots down enough Quarian ships that you get the game over tab.