260 réponses à ce sujet

[Rotward]

spirosz wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Anders is one of the best examples of tragic characters I've seen in a while.

Really?  I thought Jacob was done better. 

Jacob from mass effect? If so, how was he tragic? If not, which Jacob are we talking about? 

[Texhnolyze101]

spirosz wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Anders is one of the best examples of tragic characters I've seen in a while.

Really?  I thought Jacob was done better. 

There is nothing tragic or wrong with Jacob.

[AresKeith]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Didin't Anders say they were one being now? both fused and became 1 person?

Those random outbursts he had with no control says otherwise, so I don't take his comments at face value

[Orian Tabris]

AresKeith wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

But yeah, it would be nice if he wasn't in DAI. I've had my Anders fill.

If you don't kill him in DA2 he will most likely show up in DAI and will probably be in a side quest or something.

Don't really see how

He could be helping mages escape from red templars or he could be in Tevinter.

Pretty sure by this time Vengeance took over if still alive

Vengeance can't take over him. They "are as one." The only thing vegeance can do is replace him in the mortal realm, fulltime (ignoring the fact that it was actually in the mortal realm anyway, since it was unable to do anything). Eventually Vengeance might replace him in the mortal realm, while Anders replaces it in the Fade.

Basically, Vengeance is just slowly leaving the Fade and entering the mortal realm permanently, for good(?).

[Rotward]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Veruin wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...
Because i haven't done anything to be banned for.

You can't go 3 posts without calling the chantry "A bunch of idiot cultists" and continually denounce religion as "for idiots."   I'm an athiest and you are just a walking stereotype of us.

I call them what i see them as and was asking House to give me a few reasons as to what real logical reason there is to kill Anders.

Justice, from the point of view of the chantry. While I don't think you've done anything ban worthy, and I think Anders' actions were justified, there are plenty of reasons to kill the chap. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

7 pages in 2 hours?

Alrighty then, what the hell are you people arguing about now?

[Veruin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

7 pages in 2 hours?

Alrighty then, what the hell are you people arguing about now?

Pretty much another Anders thread.

[AresKeith]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

7 pages in 2 hours?

Alrighty then, what the hell are you people arguing about now?

Anders is srs business

[Orian Tabris]

AresKeith wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Didin't Anders say they were one being now? both fused and became 1 person?

Those random outbursts he had with no control says otherwise, so I don't take his comments at face value

Wrong. You're flat out wrong.

They are one person. Vengeance can't move inside the Fade unless the host body is there. And while there, the host cannot control the body. If Anders dies, the immortal spirit of Vengeance will return to the Fade (or possibly "die," if he's replaced Anders in the mortal realm). If Vengeance "dies" in the Fade, it will return to Anders because it's spiritually linked (no pun intended) to his body/mind.

[Lulupab]

Orian Tabris wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

But yeah, it would be nice if he wasn't in DAI. I've had my Anders fill.

If you don't kill him in DA2 he will most likely show up in DAI and will probably be in a side quest or something.

Don't really see how

He could be helping mages escape from red templars or he could be in Tevinter.

Pretty sure by this time Vengeance took over if still alive

Vengeance can't take over him. They "are as one." The only thing vegeance can do is replace him in the mortal realm, fulltime (ignoring the fact that it was actually in the mortal realm anyway, since it was unable to do anything). Eventually Vengeance might replace him in the mortal realm, while Anders replaces it in the Fade.

Basically, Vengeance is just slowly leaving the Fade and entering the mortal realm permanently, for good(?).

As far as I know Justice is not even in the fade. He draws power from it but he is fully present in Thedas which is what makes Anders and Justice's merging a unique one. Anders is not possessed by Justice like abomination in which demons are still in the fade controlling the victim, Anders and Justicetruly have become one as Justice doesn't exist anymore after the merging, Justice is Anders. Its like a person with 2 personality and if you pay close attention Justice only takes over when Anders is angry, exactly like those people with 2nd personality syndrome (psycholigal disorder that people change under certain emotional effects like anger)

[Silfren]

Orian Tabris wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Pretty sure by this time Vengeance took over if still alive

Vengeance can't take over him. They "are as one." The only thing vegeance can do is replace him in the mortal realm, fulltime (ignoring the fact that it was actually in the mortal realm anyway, since it was unable to do anything). Eventually Vengeance might replace him in the mortal realm, while Anders replaces it in the Fade.

Basically, Vengeance is just slowly leaving the Fade and entering the mortal realm permanently, for good(?).

Not necessarily true.  Anders himself will tell you flat out that Vengeance takes him over sometimes, and you see this for yourself at least three times.

Not sure what you mean by Vengeance slowly leaving the Fade.  He's not in the Fade at all, but fused with Anders's body and fully in the mortal realm.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:52 .

[Orian Tabris]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Like I already said. He's a powerful and unstable man who has no qualms with killing multiple innocent people and has a history of escaping captivity, so you can't simply jail him.

An extreme post, this one is. The only reason to jail or kill him is if you believe he's a danger. Hawke only knew about the killing of multiple innocent people part. S/he has NO knowledge about his history of escaping captivity. He wasn't a captive in the Wardens. So anyone who would kill him for those reasons aren't playing from a roleplay perspective.

It's not like I consider Hawke blameless in all of this. Hawke knew that Anders would do this, and Hawke didn't take the necessary steps to stop him. Even then, Hawke knows that Anders is unstable and hates the idea of imprisonment. Trying to throw him prison won't really end well either.

No. It's established fact that Hawke had no knowledge of what Anders intended to do. In fact, if you decline his Act 3 quest, he will do it anyway.

[Texhnolyze101]

Rotward wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Veruin wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...
Because i haven't done anything to be banned for.

You can't go 3 posts without calling the chantry "A bunch of idiot cultists" and continually denounce religion as "for idiots."   I'm an athiest and you are just a walking stereotype of us.

I call them what i see them as and was asking House to give me a few reasons as to what real logical reason there is to kill Anders.

Justice, from the point of view of the chantry. While I don't think you've done anything ban worthy, and I think Anders' actions were justified, there are plenty of reasons to kill the chap. 

Other then that little outburst in which he almost killed one of the very people he claimed to be protecting i still don't see why anyone would kill him and with the templar vs mage war happening he could be very useful on the battlefield.

[Rotward]

Not that I don't get the whole vengeance thing, but was that term ever applied to justice/anders in game, or is that something the BSN has taken to? Just wondering.

[Orian Tabris]

Silfren wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Pretty sure by this time Vengeance took over if still alive

Vengeance can't take over him. They "are as one." The only thing vegeance can do is replace him in the mortal realm, fulltime (ignoring the fact that it was actually in the mortal realm anyway, since it was unable to do anything). Eventually Vengeance might replace him in the mortal realm, while Anders replaces it in the Fade.

Basically, Vengeance is just slowly leaving the Fade and entering the mortal realm permanently, for good(?).

Not necessarily true.  Anders himself will tell you flat out that Vengeance takes him over sometimes, and you see this for yourself at least three times.

Not sure what you mean by Vengeance slowly leaving the Fade.  He's not in the Fade at all, but fused with Anders's body and fully in the mortal realm.

You don't understand what I'm saying. When Vengeance CONTROLLS Anders' body, Anders loses the ability to control his body, just like Vengeance can't when it isn't taking over. If Vengeance takes over permanently, Anders will be unable to do anything unless inside the Fade. He will be stuck "living" through Vengeance, and all that it experiences.

[Veruin]

Orian Tabris wrote...

No. It's established fact that Hawke had no knowledge of what Anders intended to do. In fact, if you decline his Act 3 quest, he will do it anyway.

"I'm greatful that you helped me make this potion.  Now I need you to distract the grand cleric so I can drink it in the chantry, in the grand clerics room, while I smell her perfume."

"No questions asked, it should be obvious the spiritual energies and scent of her perfume are required to make an oral potion work."

Modifié par Veruin, 10 janvier 2014 - 12:56 .

[AresKeith]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Rotward wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Veruin wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...
Because i haven't done anything to be banned for.

You can't go 3 posts without calling the chantry "A bunch of idiot cultists" and continually denounce religion as "for idiots."   I'm an athiest and you are just a walking stereotype of us.

I call them what i see them as and was asking House to give me a few reasons as to what real logical reason there is to kill Anders.

Justice, from the point of view of the chantry. While I don't think you've done anything ban worthy, and I think Anders' actions were justified, there are plenty of reasons to kill the chap. 

Other then that little outburst in which he almost killed one of the very people he claimed to be protecting i still don't see why anyone would kill him and with the templar vs mage war happening he could be very useful on the battlefield.

Because he's an unstable man-child you doesn't care for killing innocent people as long as he gets his way

[Orian Tabris]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Like I already said. He's a powerful and unstable man who has no qualms with killing multiple innocent people and has a history of escaping captivity, so you can't simply jail him.

An extreme post, this one is. The only reason to jail or kill him is if you believe he's a danger. Hawke only knew about the killing of multiple innocent people part. S/he has NO knowledge about his history of escaping captivity. He wasn't a captive in the Wardens. So anyone who would kill him for those reasons aren't playing from a roleplay perspective.

It's not like I consider Hawke blameless in all of this. Hawke knew that Anders would do this, and Hawke didn't take the necessary steps to stop him. Even then, Hawke knows that Anders is unstable and hates the idea of imprisonment. Trying to throw him prison won't really end well either.

No. It's established fact that Hawke had no knowledge of what Anders intended to do. In fact, if you decline his Act 3 quest, he will do it anyway.

We know it involves the Chantry, and Anders is blinded by hatred. Noooot that difficult to put two and two together.

Wrong. And even if you weren't wrong, Hawke NEVER puts those together.

[Silfren]

Rotward wrote...

Not that I don't get the whole vengeance thing, but was that term ever applied to justice/anders in game, or is that something the BSN has taken to? Just wondering.

Yes.  Anders denies it for the most part, until the end, if you rival him.  At that point he outright refers to Justice as Vengeance.  But early on, even when he's in the denial stage, he does refer to Justice as a "force of vengeance, and he knows nothing of mercy." 

[Veruin]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Wrong. And even if you weren't wrong, Hawke NEVER puts those together.

Hawke can't put 2 and 2 together because the plot demands he can't.

[Lulupab]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Like I already said. He's a powerful and unstable man who has no qualms with killing multiple innocent people and has a history of escaping captivity, so you can't simply jail him.

An extreme post, this one is. The only reason to jail or kill him is if you believe he's a danger. Hawke only knew about the killing of multiple innocent people part. S/he has NO knowledge about his history of escaping captivity. He wasn't a captive in the Wardens. So anyone who would kill him for those reasons aren't playing from a roleplay perspective.

It's not like I consider Hawke blameless in all of this. Hawke knew that Anders would do this, and Hawke didn't take the necessary steps to stop him. Even then, Hawke knows that Anders is unstable and hates the idea of imprisonment. Trying to throw him prison won't really end well either.

Which Hawke are you talking about? Hawke can fully support Anders and even be more extreme than him.

Quotes of hawke:
Justice: They will die I will have every last Templar for these abuses
Hawke: We'll kill them all. I promise.

Hawke to Anders in act 3: I'm not expecting this to end with anything less than overthrowing the Templars

There are more quotes but these have to be enough. So some Hawke won't even think about imprisoning Anders or taking the steps to stop him. They will emrabce his actions

[Orian Tabris]

Veruin wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

No. It's established fact that Hawke had no knowledge of what Anders intended to do. In fact, if you decline his Act 3 quest, he will do it anyway.

"I'm greatful that you helped me make this potion.  Now I need you to distract the grand cleric so I can drink it in the chantry, in the grand clerics room, while I smell her perfume."

Again, that's only if you help him. Hawke manages it by himself if you decline. He helps distract the grand cleric, but s/he doesn't realise what Anders is doing.

Also, you meant "grateful."