46 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

Specifically in the singleplayer campaign.  I've never actually finished the game yet, despite my best intentions, and I'm encountering the same problem I always encounter when I try to do it as a Vanguard - halfway through the campaign, I'm just bored.  

Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova to win every fight doesn't stay fun for long, in addition to being ridiculously cheesy, and when I try and vary from that formula, I go, "Hang on.  I'm shooting things from cover.  I'm basically playing a Soldier.  Why aren't I just playing a Soldier?"  And then I usually go and start a Soldier, which is why I haven't finished the dang game.

Still, I must be doing something wrong, because Vanguard enthusiasts seem quite certain that the class is a blast to play.  What a I missing?

[RedCaesar97]

You are not missing anything. The key to making a Vanguard interesting is to removing either Charge or Nova from your power set.

I find a Chargeless NovaGuard very fun since it forces you to get in close to use Nova, but without the Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card that is Charge.

Of course, the real problem is the single player game itself which does not provide much of a challenge with a few exceptions. Vanguard especially since, when played even moderately well, can never die as you are essentially invulnerable as you Charge and Nova. Which is why I hardly ever use the two powers together anymore.

Currently, I am playing as a ME1-style Vanguard, where I am using Pull (Lift equivalent), Shockwave (Throw equivalent), Incendiary and Cryo Ammo, and Carnage, along with the Predator/Carnifex and Katana/Scimitar which are weapons modeled in ME1. I am also using only ME1 squadmates (with their ME1 powers and weapons) except when forced to use non-ME1 squadmates. It is different and fun.

The key to having fun in ME3 single player is to try to off-the-wall builds and/or playstyles. This usually involves restricting which powers you use, and/or weapons and squadmates. I find if you try to use the strongest or best class builds, the game becomes way too easy and you end up having less fun. Of course, there is nothing wrong with optimal builds and sometimes steamrolling the game can be fun, but I find imposing self-limitations in single player makes the game more interesting.

[Khavos]

I thought about dumping Nova, but then I wonder how much I'd actually Charge. Seems like it wouldn't work on Insanity, unless you saved it for the last guy in a group, and at that point it's kinda gratuitous.

[billpickles]

I'm playing my first-ever ME3 Vanguard right now. I have the opposite problem, actually. After all the time I spent playing Soldier, Infiltrator, and Sentinel, I sometimes have to remind myself to Charge and play more aggressively. I don't Nova all that much, primarily because I Reave before my Charge, and the resulting Biotic Explosions tend to kill all nearby targets before Nova even happens.

I'm stalled on Rannoch and went back to MP, but that's not so much because Vanguard is boring...I've just played it through too many times, maybe, and I find the final act(s) to be somewhat tedious. It's all downhill for me after the Tuchanka Arc.

[Pressedcat]

I agree with RedCaesar on the Vanguard: charge and nova used in conjunction pretty much trivialise ME3 combat, and once you get over the novelty of obliterating everything immediately, it becomes very dull very quick.

If you are worried about charging into a group of enemies, just remember biotic explosions are your friend. Get an ally to prime a target with warp etc and then charge, and it will do decent damage and stagger the entire group, allowing you to let off a few shots and, if necessary, get out of dodge. If you take the area evolution for charge, you can even detonate several explosions at once.

You also need to start thinking strategically about when to charge, when not to, and exit strategies once you have charged. Don't forget that charge is not your only power: you have pull to disarm guardians and disable unshielded foes and shockwave to clear corridors in front of you, not to mention ammo powers to deal extra damage or freeze opponents, and finally a bonus power to customize your vanguard further. Finally, don't underestimate the vanguard's heavy melee, which comes in two varieties: a powerful punch that throws people back and deals decent damage, and a special melee that only activates when you heavy melee whilst sprinting, and acts much like nova (sans the detonation ability). With all these tools at your disposal, you will quickly learn to thin the crowd out a bit with powers and shots from range before rapidly closing to shotgun/melee the survivors to death.

This is my own vanguard build.

As soon as I had the funds, I picked up the wraith shotgun to which I applied a bayonet and
incendiary ammo. As a secondary I settled on the hornet to which i applied cryo or incendiary as the situation demanded. I would use the hornet at range if it was too hot to charge, winnowing down shields and using slam (pull as an adequate alternative, though slam also causes fire explosions from the ammo power). I'd then close using shockwave if there was a grouping of enemies, otherwise charging, shotgunning and heavy-meleeing to mop up (hence all the melee boosts in the fitness tree). I put only a single point in pull to deal with guardian shields in a pinch.

I deliberately steered away from biotic explosions in most situations, as I personally found it too powerful with this (or any) build, generally preferring to rely on force damage and the occasional fire/cryo-explosion. Slam is also probably a bit superfluous when you already have pull, but I just like the visuals of the power. Fortification or carnage make decent 'canon' alternatives if you don't have slam available, or simply don't like it.

Of course, this is just my own build, and unfortunately I don't have the ability to record gameplay. Others who post here have made videos (I highly recommed RedCaesar's).The best thing to do is just experiment until you find a build that suits you. Other than the wraith and a few weapon mods/upgrades, you should have plenty of credits to spare for re-speccing.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 10 janvier 2014 - 05:56 .

[Invisible Man]

I like to charge & blast with my melee-bladed shotgun + weaponbutt or biotic heavy melee to targets at close range, combing sometimes with nova if there are still nearby enemies not hugging dirt. then I takecover as my barrier recharges & charge coolsdown. tends to make things interesting, to me that is.

[Balkazar246]

The Vanguard I played threw on ME1, and I had a blast, I didnt have charge but the lift power was fun. In ME2 it was charge in, get away with charge, charge in then use it again to get away.

In ME3 thats where it became a blast for me anyways, I tend to push my guy to see how far I can take the character which means, I would charge a mob of 10 then nova, anythig that survived that would get another nova IF your recharge rate is high enough, But combine it with a shotgun that allows atleast 5 shots per reload and your looking at a decent amount of damage and your at full shields and health and they are all dead. Playing a Vanguard Solo, I wouldnt suggest it as you need support.

[capn233]

I think you have stumbled onto the big secret of Mass Effect gameplay: the classes aren't all that different except for unique powers.

I would recommend first throwing Nova out the airlock. Nova with its i-frames makes most all the encounters in the game easier than they need to be since Charge will nearly always be off cooldown soon enough, even if you take decent weapons.

No-Charge Novaguard is somewhat interesting to play if you want something more like a Primal Adept. Just don't cheat and take Energy Drain.

Of course you can go various "caster" builds, but it will still be combat / biotic hybrid rather than straight adept since you get Incendiary Ammo and have a more weapon focused passive. It won't be straight soldier because you have biotic CC / primers / detonators.

[Daemul]

Originally, I never used Nova on my Vanguard, until I realised that it can detonate powers. I normally focus on creating Fire Explosions, since it's the most enjoyable way to play imo. I normally take along James(for more Fire Explosions) and Ash(for Fire Explosions AND Tech Bursts) and we destroy enemies. I never take along another biotic squadmate since I already am a Biotic and I am capable of creating my own Biotic Explosions when need be.

So many of the Vanguards powers can be used as detonators (Charge, Nova and Shockwave), it makes the class really tactical to play. For example, you don't have to charge into the enemy or close in and use Nova to detonate a combo, you can use Shockwave from a safe distance instead. The Vanguard is the only class where I actually use all the powers available.

[known_hero]

Khavos wrote...

I thought about dumping Nova, but then I wonder how much I'd actually Charge. Seems like it wouldn't work on Insanity, unless you saved it for the last guy in a group, and at that point it's kinda gratuitous.

Dump that mentality: EVERYTHING WORKS ON INSANITY. Give it a shot.

Personally, I've grown to like Charge/Nova. If the game wants me to whip it's chops then that's what I'm going to do.

[ElementalFury106]

Charge NovaGuard can trivialize ME3 combat, but what I do to make it fun is add some melee/biotic explostion priming to the situation. Some would say it's still dull, but I find every exploding with my biotic artillery strike to be very satisfying.

-I choose Dark Channel as my bonus power. Reave is also acceptable.
-Choose one Biotic squadmate, one Tech squadmate. Tech destroys shield/barrier defenses, Biotic primes enemies.
-Vanguard casts Dark Channel on a non-primed target. Charges in--Melee--Nova and repeat. Everyone is dead in seconds. Explosions gallore, and smacking your enemies to dead with the Vanguard heavy melee is very satisfying.

The only build in the game where I'd actually entertain the idea of choosing melee evolutions over health in the Fitness tree/skill line.

I also use the N7 Pirahna with the blade attachment.

[SpaceV3gan]

I just started a new playthrough 3 days ago, after spending the last 1 year of multiplayer only (about 1200 hours)
I am currently following a mix of ME1 vanguard with sporadical Charge + nades (inferno).
Vanguards are for me front line Adepts, with a medium level of weapon proficiency. That is the original ME1. Charge is boring and Nova is boring+stupid.

My weapon of choice is the Talon, with the Wraith as backup. I abuse incendiary ammo priming and shockwave for fire explosions.
I gotta say, I am having a blast. Insanity feels jusy easy enoug and refreshing.

[KikoChuN7]

I enjoy the vanguard, and don't find myself bored of that class. I think the key is picking higher difficulties (veteran/insanity) and not fully upgrading anything. I like to feel underpowered and overwhelmed as it builds up a sense of urgency. I make up random rules as I go along certain missions, such as not using any weapons (or not picking up any thermal clips, using only what I came with) and relying only on my powers/melee attacks. The same goes for your squadmates, the most important thing is to make it more challenging!

[DragonRacer]

Had actually never played any class other than Soldier in SP before.

Now, after almost two years of playing everything in MP, I started up my first Insanity SP playthrough as a Vanguard. I'm about 3/4 through the original game content with the DLCs also still left to go. Having a blast. I don't really care for Nova, though, so my typical style is to charge, pump the enemy full of Incendiary ammo from my Piranha, then charge them again for the fire explosion. Rinse and repeat.

The fact that I'm addicted to fire explosions in MP means that they have yet to make me bored in SP. LOL

[ClydeInTheShell]

I don't have to do anything special.

I am instantly replenished when I see Femshep charging.

[billpickles]

Woah...the MP gang making a SP forum appearance! Awesome!

[EpicBananas70]

I have an interesting vanguard melee-based class I've been using lately. The vanguard is unique and he/she has two heavy melee attacks: one standing heavy melee and one that is similar to nova that activates when you hold down the heavy melee button while sprinting. I don't substitute nova for heavy melee attacks like some people like to do, I just use nova to stagger enemies and as a kind of extra melee attack. This class is great for melee as powers can be used as an extension of melee attacks.

Powers:

Cryo ammo: -Rank 4: Duration
-5: Headshot damage
-6: Damage combo
Although it has nothing to do with melee attacks, you're going to want to use a shotgun for this class so having the Cyro ammo softens enemies up, weakens armor and makes them slower so they're easier to melee.

Pull: I'm not going to go through this one simply because it isn't really important unless you want to pull enemies close for a melee attack or shotgun class.

Biotic charge: -4: Radius
-5: Weapon synergy
-6: Barrier
I use biotic charge to stagger multiple enemies so they can be dispatched with melee and shotguns without too much trouble. You can go for power damage at rank 5 but the fun of this class is in the melee attacks so you don't want to make your powers too strong.

Shockwave: -4: Impact radius
-5: Reach
-6: Recharge speed
Shockwaves is usually a generally useless power as it's not quite as effective as it was in ME2 and the core powers for a vanguard, charge and nova, are good enough. However, for this class shockwave is very useful as a staggering melee attack and the reach upgrade at rank 5 means you can stagger enemies in the distance while you melee closer ones. It can also pass through cover and allow you to rush them.

Nova: -4: Force and damage
-5: Half blast
-6: Sustain
Nova is useful for staggering enemies and softening them up for melee attacks. You're going to want to have a damage boost either at rank 4 or 6 so you can take out sheilds and barriers easier.

Assault mastery: Put all points into weapon damage and power damage upgrades and weight capacity increase.

Fitness: -4: Melee damage
-5: Melee spree
-6: Durability

Bonus power: Use either defense matrix or fortification. I personally use fortification because of the melee damage bonus but if you want better shields then use defense matrix.

Fortification: -4: Melee damage
-5: Recharge speed
-6: Power Recharge

Weapons: As I mentioned earlier, shotguns work best with this class. You will want to use a fairly light shotgun because power recharge speed is fairly important. I personally use the AT-12 Raider from the leviathan dlc because it is quite light when upgraded, has a good fire rate and does as much damage as a claymore or spike thrower when the right attachments are used.

Armor: This down to personal preference but I like to have melee based armor for this class.

Helmet: Death mask
Chest: Ariake Technologies
Shoulders: Kassa Fabrication
Arms: Kassa Fabrication
Legs: Ariake Technologies

I hope this class is appealing to people because although it isn't entirely melee based, I tried to make it as easy and fun as possible to play as this class even on the hardest difficulties.

[Sriep]

I never managed to make it interesting, however I think its the best class for quickly rushing though the game. Charge Nova really makes everything so simple. Not even that much difference between insanity and casual, just can't recover from mistakes on insanity otherwise just a few extra charge novas.

 

So easiest class to finish game, but yes least interesting.

 

Best suggestion for making it interesting pretend Nova power does not exist. An alternative would be to pretend the charge power does not exist, but I think dropping nova is more thematic.

[Daemul]

Like I said before, don't just Charge-Nova or in some cases -Melee like you see the vast, vast, VAST majority of Vanguard players do on the internet, in fact, actively avoid it, it's so dull and boring. Incorporate all of your biotic powers and use fire explosions, learn that there is actually more to Nova then it being just an "I WIN" power(hint:it can detonate other powers), realise that you don't always need to risk yourself and charge to set off biotic explosions and fire explosions, Pull+Reave/Shockwave/Nova, Reave+Shockwave/Nova, Shockwave(take Lift eveolution at rank 6)+Reave/Nova, Incendiary Ammo+Nova(FE look glorious when detonated by Nova)/ Shockwave. Learn and use all of these, then the class will never get boring.

 

13(currently on my 14th) playthroughs baby! 

[Kurt M.]

I just discovered Novaguards, so that's fun for me right now Also, I'm on Insanity and I've a very strict No-MediGel policy (more XP), so things aren't particularly easy for me (more than once I found myself with only 1 HP in the middle of a mission).

 

Before that I was basically a normal Vanguard, shotgun in hand and Flare or Dominate as debilitating attacks in case I didn't dared Charging. Sometimes I also used the N7 Hurricane SMG. It's pretty effective to charge in and headshot your enemy with it.

[Karlone123]

I refraim from using nova or Biotic charge, instead I use pull (occassionally) and barrier. I head cannon myself as a biotic commando with and assault rifle and shotgun with low use of biotic powers. I set rules for myself to only use pull in dire situations and enemies holding a shield. Mostly relying on weapons, barrier and the heavy vanguard melee attack.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Pretty much as everyone else has said, don't use Charge and Nova together and opt not to use one of them... or both of them.

 

The build I use is a duo one. I take Lash as a bonus power and specialize in weapon damage; alternating between using biotics (Pull/Lash) and running in (not charging) to shoot everything (without the Explosive evolution of Incendiary Ammo).

[Kurt M.]

I've finally gained enough levels to say that my build is pretty much completed. I like to call it "Adeptguard", and it has two modes: The first one is the classical Novacharging for close-quarter fighting, and the second one is a mix of Pull (or sometimes Levitating Shockwave, but only in certain cases), and Flare for long-range attacks and biotic detonations. For armored enemies or heavy-hitters, I use my Venom shotgun, usually charged shots. With it I can take down Atlases, Brutes and Banshees without even breaking a sweat.

 

Tons of fun, and it makes the game really easy, even on Insanity with no Medi-Gel. I haven't even been down to 1 HP in a while. I guess that means I've found my equilibrium

[Guanxii]

With Gibbed of course. I play a hybrid of vanguard and adept nowadays with the idea being to have access to the full range of biotic powers by removing any redundant powers and ammo shared by squadmates and replacing them with exclusive biotic powers that squadmates don't have, e.g. lash, flare, etc. Given that charge and nova are exclusive and most of the adepts powers are redundant (shared by Liara and Javik) I don't think there is any reason to choose Adept over Vanguard in ME3 with or without gibbed. Cluster Grenades are crippled by the lack of grenade boxes in singleplayer and so I would use flare instead even on the Adept.

 

I take Reave because Marksman and Inferno Grenades + concussive shot and squad disruptor ammo make Ashley more useful and secondly so that I can use warp, dark channel and reave all at the same time. Nova let's you continue to detonate after using Flare, so Flare is better on the vanguard imo.

 

Biotic Charge

Nova

Shockwave

Reave

Flare

Lash

Barrier

 

Pull

Slam

Dark Channel

Lift Grenade

 

Singularity

Warp

Warp Ammo

Stasis

 

What more could you want?

[ashwind]

Just play the Vanguard like in ME2 - Charge + Claymore. One Shot One Kill never gets old.