59 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMyron]

Bleachrude wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A trilogy that keeps the same game mechanics from start to finish could be pretty problematic. Imagine if that was applied to Mass Effect. There's always room for improvement, no matter how good it may be from the start.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Besides, do you like having to readjust from what your used to just to play a sequel?

Besides, this topic is still a hypothetical situation...

The reason fort he changes is that you try something and it doesn't work, you change it.

A good example would be the skill system. 

The ME1 version is way too granular. The difference between Singularity rank 2 and Singularity rank 3 was only a .25m difference in the radius. This slight increase in the total area of less than 0.20m squared.

Not a noticeable difference and frankly, it made upgrading skills feel like a waste of time unless you hit the breakpoint (for example, even though going from rank 1 to rank 4 in say singularity involved a 3 rank jump, it FELT way less impressive than simply hitting the breakpoint at rank 7 from rank 6.)

ME2 tried to ix this by making each rank much more valuable. The jump from rank 1 to rank 2 in singularity or example netted you not only an increase in the radius (the same 0.25m as in ME1) but also noticeable effects in the duration of both the hold efect and the singularity itself along with an increase in the number of targets that were affected.

However, ME2's skill sysyem for many people was simply too rough/not enough customization. as a maxxed out singularity only had variation at the rank 6 point and it seemed like in ME2 it was easier to max out skills than in ME1 (assuming you started a fresh character).

Bioware finally got it to what I think is the best implementation in ME3.  Combines customization along with "meaty" effects when you level a skill that it is the best implementation of skills in the ME trilogy. 

In real life, when you exercise a skill, you don't go from beginner to expert instantly; you get there gradually. Hence ME1 is the most realistic. The inclusion of weapon skills same thing...

ME3 fitness (at least in MP) is the most unrealistic; How do you make yourself stronger to deliver more melee damage but can't make your stronger to take more of a beating at the same time? Plus, the strength of your shields should depend on your amour, not your fitness...

[AlanC9]

I don't think Bleachrude was making a realism argument. And I don't see anything realistic about the way skill progression works in ME1 anyway, unless you're playing NG+ so Shepard knows everything already.

[Bleachrude]

As AlanC9 points out...I'm not talking about realism. The realism angle alls apart again as AlanC9 points out since Shepard at the beginning of the game is supposed to be N7. Ergo, most skills should be maxxed out ALREADY.

What I'm talking about is the player control via the skill system aka th mechanics behind how shepard interacts with the game system.itself. In ME1, unless you hit the breakpoints for a skill, there isn't a noticeable difference between ranks even multiple ranks.Example. The difference between rank 1 barrier and rank 6 barrier is 2.5s and 100pts of absorbton. That's 5 ranks worth of points yet in practise, most people won't notice the difference in-game since the difference is so slight.

Yet the jump from rank 6 to rank 7 adds 200pts of absorbtion, a duration increase of 4s AND lowers recharge speed by 10s. THIS is something that I think most of us would immediately see a difference in actual game effects.

The skill system in ME1 is just plain bad in that it discourages dabbling and it makes way more sense to just keep points until you have enough to hti a breakpoint.

[TheMyron]

You know how red husks (aka abominations) get enflamed and explode when they get killed?

Do you also remember how the standard blue husk used to give off some kind of electrical attack when it got close to you?

And now in ME3, both kinds use a "tackle" attack...

I figure why not, in the imaginary "United Game", have the blue husks and red abominations continue to perform their tackle attack, but when the blues get gunned down, their corpses give off an Overload-ish attack that has a nasty effect on your shields/barriers?

Plus, reinstate the scarier sounding moans they used to give off in ME1.

Modifié par TheMyron, 16 janvier 2014 - 12:12 .

[TheMyron]

TheMyron wrote...

You know how red husks (aka abominations) get enflamed and explode when they get killed?

Do you also remember how the standard blue husk used to give off some kind of electrical attack when it got close to you?

And now in ME3, both kinds use a "tackle" attack...

I figure why not, in the imaginary "United Game", have the blue husks and red abominations continue to perform their tackle attack, but when the blues get gunned down, their corpses give off an Overload-ish attack that has a nasty effect on your shields/barriers?

Plus, reinstate the scarier sounding moans they used to give off in ME1.

I think Shotgun Julia would agree...

[ImaginaryMatter]

TheMyron wrote...

You know how red husks (aka abominations) get enflamed and explode when they get killed?

Do you also remember how the standard blue husk used to give off some kind of electrical attack when it got close to you?

And now in ME3, both kinds use a "tackle" attack...

I figure why not, in the imaginary "United Game", have the blue husks and red abominations continue to perform their tackle attack, but when the blues get gunned down, their corpses give off an Overload-ish attack that has a nasty effect on your shields/barriers?

Plus, reinstate the scarier sounding moans they used to give off in ME1.

I would like the ME1 husk pulse attack too. However, I think for that to work in ME2 the Reaper IFF mission might have to be redone -- thinking about trying to do that mission with the kill-switch pulse attack is disconcerting.

[Almostfaceman]

AlanC9 wrote...

No exploration unless the plot is about exploration, which this one wouldn't be unless we're doing a rewrite. And do away with credits too; Shepard should have an expense account. I suppose this means the Citadel shops go away altogether since Shepard should already have all that stuff. (Unless decor for Shepard's cabin stays in)

Agreed.

Change the story so that exploration feeds solutions to finding out about the Reapers/Cerberus/Whatever and technology (Prothean/Reaper/Collector/Whatever) upgrades - there you have both legit story excuses for exploration and a "leveling" system while still feeling like you're starting off with the best technology and training you can get (as an N7 Spectre should). 

[TheMyron]

From ME3: Dodge maneuvers should stay, Heavy Melee should stay too...

[TheMyron]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

You know how red husks (aka abominations) get enflamed and explode when they get killed?

Do you also remember how the standard blue husk used to give off some kind of electrical attack when it got close to you?

And now in ME3, both kinds use a "tackle" attack...

I figure why not, in the imaginary "United Game", have the blue husks and red abominations continue to perform their tackle attack, but when the blues get gunned down, their corpses give off an Overload-ish attack that has a nasty effect on your shields/barriers?

Plus, reinstate the scarier sounding moans they used to give off in ME1.

I would like the ME1 husk pulse attack too. However, I think for that to work in ME2 the Reaper IFF mission might have to be redone -- thinking about trying to do that mission with the kill-switch pulse attack is disconcerting.

That's why I said, the "Overload Pulse" that I had in mind should be reserved for AFTER they die, the same way the red abominations don't explode till after death.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I meant that to, usually on that mission though I spend a lot of the time fighting in the pocket, alternating between melee and shooting.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 17 janvier 2014 - 12:22 .

[TheMyron]

Should Armor be an extra layer of protection like in ME2? Or just an "Extra-Strong" form of health like in ME3?

[Fixers0]

I actually quite like the skill system in the first game. The gradual progression encourges the player to strategically invest gained points into talents that the player thinks will be the most usefull. The random effects assinged to each skill level in Mass Effect 2&3 somewhat defeated the purpose of levels to begin with.

[Bleachrude]

Fixers0 wrote...

I actually quite like the skill system in the first game. The gradual progression encourges the player to strategically invest gained points into talents that the player thinks will be the most usefull. The random effects assinged to each skill level in Mass Effect 2&3 somewhat defeated the purpose of levels to begin with.

Um, what?

There is NOT a "gradual" ptrogression in the skill system AT ALL. It has MASSIVE jumps in effectiveneess at certain breakpoints that were super clunky.

E.g Stasis at the jump from level 5 to level 6 decreased recharge time by 10s and increased in duration by 2.5s yet the jump from level 6 to level 7 increased only duration by 0.5s. That jump at level 5 to 6 is actually larger/better thanthe jump from level 6 to level 11. 


How is this gradual?

[TheMyron]

I miss my good friend, Mr. Sparky, he always had my back, that is, until I summoned him.

[TheMyron]

NO auto-dialogue, be it "conversation mode" or when walking around...

In "conversation mode", Shepard says nothing until it is his turn to speak, and whenever that turn appears, so does the dialogue wheel.

When walking around, let the others talk and let me "head-canon" my responses like in ME1 and ME2.

[SwobyJ]

I was asked to put this here


"
I like to imagine something along the lines of:

-ME1-3 gradually improved the gun (or gun-like) combat over three games, as the focus
-ME4-6 will gradually improve the exploration, stealth, and other stuff like that over three games, as the focus
-ME7-9 will gradually improve the larger simulation and world-influencing mechanics over three games, as the focus and very vague for now depending on how virtual reality tech goes...
-ME10-12 will gradually improve the series as a large whole, tying everything together, with tech a couple decades from now..
-ME12 (or whatever) = the magnum opus, may as well end here

A gamer can dream

Right? "

[TheMyron]

TheMyron wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

You know how red husks (aka abominations) get enflamed and explode when they get killed?

Do you also remember how the standard blue husk used to give off some kind of electrical attack when it got close to you?

And now in ME3, both kinds use a "tackle" attack...

I figure why not, in the imaginary "United Game", have the blue husks and red abominations continue to perform their tackle attack, but when the blues get gunned down, their corpses give off an Overload-ish attack that has a nasty effect on your shields/barriers?

Plus, reinstate the scarier sounding moans they used to give off in ME1.

I would like the ME1 husk pulse attack too. However, I think for that to work in ME2 the Reaper IFF mission might have to be redone -- thinking about trying to do that mission with the kill-switch pulse attack is disconcerting.

That's why I said, the "Overload Pulse" that I had in mind should be reserved for AFTER they die, the same way the red abominations don't explode till after death.

Plus restoring the Electric pulse would also restore the scariness that the husks used to have...

[TheMyron]

TheMyron wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A trilogy that keeps the same game mechanics from start to finish could be pretty problematic. Imagine if that was applied to Mass Effect. There's always room for improvement, no matter how good it may be from the start.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Besides, do you like having to readjust from what your used to just to play a sequel?

Besides, this topic is still a hypothetical situation...

Would it not also be nice if you could play an entire Trilogy and not notice a considerable gap in graphic quality? Now that I've played through ME3, ME1's graphics really do seem primitive...

[CptData]

A full reboot with all three games squeezed into one?

Lemme think ... why not? Technically, it's even possible to do that with good ol' vanilla ME3. The biggest obstacle is not the development (which easily is going to take several years, even if you have a professional modding team), but legal issues. One can't simply walk into Mordor- use stuff from ME1 and ME2 (including DLCs) and put 'em into ME3.

Yeah, I totally would support such modding teams, either as story writer, as well as crowd funder. It's just not going to happen - neither BW nor EA are willing to support or even allow such project.

[TheMyron]

Equal graphics from start to finish would be nice...

[TuringPoint]

I have a wishlist.  Didn't think I did, but here it is.

Better, and consistent, "facial reconstruction."  I liked having slightly different palettes for each game, but consistent graphics quality across them would be nice.

They would have to reduce the Mako sequences.  Keep exploration and improve the quality of the landscapes.  Move elevator dialogues to exploration dialogues. (might not work in some cases, but honestly, I think it would be an improvement anyway.  You could explore, see the sights, maybe collect artifacts, and your squad members would talk to each other.)

Exploration in ME2.  For some reason I don't feel a need for it in ME3, but it would be nice to have missions instead of just finding stuff for the reaper war in ME3.  Improved exploration mechanics and landscapes for ME1.

Eliminate or minimize elavator wait times.

There should be content that bridges the games.  Exploration and investigation time between ME1/ME2.  Shepard being brought in, or deciding to turn himself in, after ME2.  If they remake the series, I would like it to be a continuous experience.

Guns that don't use thermal clips mixed with ones that don't, starting with ME1.  The ones that don't should cooldown while you're not using them, instead of having to press the reload key and stand still until it's done.

I would love to see the return of explosive ammo, which reduced clip size according to its power.  Rather than the lame knock off we see in MP.  I would also like to see things like scope mods for all games, and various mods for all games. Frictionless materials that increase clip size (makes more sense to me than "clip mod") instead of rate of overheating, a benefit of using the clip system for all games. Or else, they could just retcon from the beginning and make weapons require ammo of some sort.

In ME2 I would like the option to use specialized ammo, maybe instead of heavy weapons - true explosive rounds, phasic rounds which actually cut through shields , "true" armor piercing rounds or "drill" rounds which penetrate armor.  Similar powers in ME3.

No universal cooldowns.  There has to be something better.  Maybe cooldown times increase for a specific power when you use certain powers repeatedly.  Other powers lock out the other abilities for a time.

Fixed follower dialogue.  In particular the way romances are gated or rather, how they're not gated.  

Romance and character arcs that are more fleshed out, and make sense in ME2.  I would understand if they couldn't do this, but the expense would be worth it.

There should also be exploratory dialogue through all three games, improving on the lore of previous games.  Less melodrama in ME3. 

More optional puzzle missions.  Yes, it's not a puzzle game, and I don't really expect it, but since this will never happen I will throw in things that I just want.  They would be a nice opportunity to expand the lore though.  Spell out the themes more clearly.

The ability to decide which abilities to take, with more options opening in every game.

Less inventory crap-overload in ME1.  Just give us a few good gear drops per mission.  Gear should scale with level. 

I think the galaxy at war stuff should be modified, or removed. They could improve ME1 resource management by allowing you to use multiplayer mission results.  If they had to have GAW in ME3, they must allow us to use the same origin account we had originally for ME3.

I think there should be more options for multiplayer added, with different multiplayer options for each of the games. I would want to be able to face mercenary groups and other factions, or play as them.  I want battlefields from all three games.  Missions and game modes from  pinnacle station for multiplayer.  This remake would be a perfect opportunity to enrich the multiplayer experience, make it less repetitive.  It would be perfect to use story-driven scenarios.  Explore different fights of ME-lore with what-if squads.

Leaderboards for singleplayer squad combat.  Improved squad mechancis and AI.  

At least explain (in a way that makes sense) how Shepard came alive after dying, even if a fair amount of it is space magic.  We didn't even get THAT much.  Aside from the normandy getting attacked, the whole intro to ME2 needs to be re-worked.  The plot to undermine his own work, at least motivate him with indoctrination or a better, more important project.  Add a few missions of plots made by indoctrinated agents or at least some indoctrinated mercenaries.  Use more intrigue in ME2, coverups that you can't do anything about.

While we're at it, resolve more plotlines.  Let us meet more people from Shepard's past.  Put in Shepard's origin missions, as multiplayer maps if not integrated in the story somehow.

Husks from different races, starting a little in the first game, then more in the second.

Modifié par Alocormin, 30 janvier 2014 - 07:52 .

[Fixers0]

Bleachrude wrote...
There is NOT a "gradual" ptrogression in the skill system AT ALL. It has MASSIVE jumps in effectiveneess at certain breakpoints that were super clunky.

That's ME2/3 you're talking about now.

Bleachrude wrote...
E.g Stasis at the jump from level 5 to level 6 decreased recharge time by 10s and increased in duration by 2.5s yet the jump from level 6 to level 7 increased only duration by 0.5s. That jump at level 5 to 6 is actually larger/better thanthe jump from level 6 to level 11. 

as you've just proven between leven 6-11 there is a gradual progression of skill.

Modifié par Fixers0, 30 janvier 2014 - 08:31 .

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...
E.g Stasis at the jump from level 5 to level 6 decreased recharge time by 10s and increased in duration by 2.5s yet the jump from level 6 to level 7 increased only duration by 0.5s. That jump at level 5 to 6 is actually larger/better thanthe jump from level 6 to level 11. 

as you've just proven between leven 6-11 there is a gradual progression of skill.

There's a gradual progression punctuated by huge leaps.  Are you saying it's actually a good thing that the level 6-11 progression does less for you than the level 5-6 progression?

[Arcian]

TheMyron wrote...

The "Skill Stats" of ME1 were the most realistic...

No, they weren't. It was stupid as hell having to spend skill points to become proficient with weapons when Shepard is an elite soldier with years of training.

[TheMyron]

Arcian wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

The "Skill Stats" of ME1 were the most realistic...

No, they weren't. It was stupid as hell having to spend skill points to become proficient with weapons when Shepard is an elite soldier with years of training.

In real life, its called "practice", and practice makes perfect, or at least it improves...