175 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Rotward wrote...
Every warden is then betrayed at Ostagar, and spends the rest of the game being hunted by the people you're trying to protect.

That's just wrong. You're hunted exactly once by Zevran, and the Crows straight up throw their support behind you otherwise. Even in Denerim, you have people covering for you, including the captain of the guards. 

Every other place that you go welcomes you with open arms.

The Warden had about as much trouble with people hunting him/her as Mage Hawke did with templars hunting him/her. 

Even in victory, you lose many people, and towns, possibly including yourself. You then die by age 30, even if you survive the archdemon.  

In victory you lose absolutely no one except faceless mooks, unless you as the player choses to have people die. You also, acccording to DA:O itself, have 30+ years to live and are already in your (at least) early 20s, meaning you live around 50 years (which is a totally respectable lifespan). You are remembered as one of the greatest heroes of the Wardens like Garahel, and your actual title is the "Hero of Ferelden" if you live. 

Modifié par In Exile, 11 janvier 2014 - 08:20 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Darth Brotarian wrote...


So the reason you can't make up a new genre word is what again? I mean, last time I checked, you don't have to just use per-exsisting genres in order to define your story. They're more there to help other people get a vague idea of what your story will be about.

It isn't my fault if my definition of a "Medieval Fantasy" is much more geopolitically and socially focused then your definition is, or that my definition holds accuracy to the period as something important to qualify, and yours does not.

Wow, such anger! 

Setlle down there, Chief.  Please don't shoot the messenger here.  There is no need to actually act like a Darth about this.  I wasn't trying to be geopolitically or socially focused on anything.  You kidding me?  I've barely had my first cup of coffee and I've been as sick as a dog. I'm not sure where the hell that came from, and I'm not sure why you're getting so angry about this.  

I thought the term "magic fantasy" sounded kinda silly.  That was just my opinon, and I'm sorry you took offense to me speaking my thoughts.  Since there is so many Skyrim comparions on the forums, I thought the listed definition of a medieval fantasy fit.  That description of it is probably why people call Dragon Age a medieval fantasy, since the term has been around since the Tolken era.

FYFI, I don't think my opinion makes yours invalid.  You think it should be called "magic fantasy" and I agree with the "medieval fantasy" term.  Nothing more, nothing less.  

Relax, it's supposed to be a fun discussion. 

Modifié par Starsyn, 11 janvier 2014 - 08:28 .

[MrMrPendragon]

It's more fantasy I admit, but it is still medieval. It is called "medieval fantasy" anyway.

Although DA doesn't delve much into medieval politics, social structure in those times, and topics that don't involve too much mystical creatures.

They do have those topics in the DA universe - like the Grand Game, which can potentially be a DA Game of Thrones, but so far it only exists in the codex and books. meaning it's not a central topic in any of the games.

[Cainhurst Crow]

lol, anger. I would say the same for you, needing to post a long definition to try and prove something.

Love the condescension though, really top grade worthy stuff, though a bit thick for my tastes. Kinda like too much cream cheese on a bagel.

More to the point however, Yes, magic fantasy is a silly name, very stupid. But it is the term the other guy used, not me.

Personally, I'm partial to calling dragon age a Grim Fantasy, matches a lot of the tone of the stoires told, but still keeps a bit of fairy tale-esque bits that occur in both games their proper standing. Not to mention both games have opened with a almost storybook like motif to them, 2 going the full step of having the story told by a storyteller.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 11 janvier 2014 - 08:54 .

[HurricaneGinger]

Hmmm...well, my thought is this: how could their medieval be identical to ours? With magic, I assume certain aspects have been changed and advanced thanks to it. The world as well as its history is different, so their development is not and can not be coherent to ours.

[Angrywolves]

I don't believe it ever had a medieval flair.

It lacked the stuff we saw in movies like Robin Hood, First Knight, The Black Arrow, movies like those.
There weren't the carnivals, there weren't the jousing contests of course, no horses, no sieges of castles, stuff like that in earlier games.
We MAY see some of that in DAI, but it won't be all we see in those kinds of films.

[Grieving Natashina]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

lol, anger. I would say the same for you, needing to post a long definition to try and prove something.

Love the condescension though, really top grade worthy stuff, though a bit thick for my tastes. Kinda like too much cream cheese on a bagel.

You're giving me and yourself too much credit here. I'm not angry, just adding to the discussion. I picked your post quote because there was a lot of talk medieval fantasy.  I was merely trying to add a clear definintion, not pick on you.  Given the name and nature of the topic, that's all I was trying to do.

I'm not trying to be condescending either.  I'm not sure where that came from, and I sure didn't mean it.  If I came off as such, I sincerely apologize.   You're reading way way too much into my posts.  You came off as rather strong and I was taken aback.  

I don't know you well enough to be condescending to you, only trying to let you know that I wasn't fighting. This isn't my first experience with gamer forums and I know that meanings can get lost via text. I was merely letting you know that, with no sarcasm, I was respecting your opinion.  

Stop insulting me please.  I never meant to be insulting to you, so let's just move on. 

Personally, I'm partial to calling dragon age a Grim Fantasy, matches a lot of the tone of the stoires told, but still keeps a bit of fairy tale-esque bits that occur in both games their proper standing. Not to mention both games have opened with a almost storybook like motif to them, 2 going the full step of having the story told by a storyteller.

Agreed here.  Out of the terms we've both used, I think Grim Fantasy works much better for this game.  As far as the storybook motif, don't forget the pictures we get going into the game.  Like the intro to Origins or the transitions between Acts in DA2.  That just backs up your point.

Modifié par Starsyn, 11 janvier 2014 - 09:05 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

That is true, it is a very storybook like tradition to these games.

I hope they continue that in inquisition, it kinda has a nice little mood setter for the stories.

[spinachdiaper]

Bioware has definitely moved Dragon Age out of the typical medieval mold and has slowly started to shift into the stylized garbage that is similar to where Final Fantasy is now.

just waiting for the zepplins, a character named cid, and moogles to make it offical

Modifié par spinachdiaper, 11 janvier 2014 - 09:18 .

[Grieving Natashina]

spinachdiaper wrote...

Bioware has definitely moved Dragon Age out of the typical medieval mold and has slowly started to shift into the stylized garbage that is similar to where Final Fantasy is now.

just waiting for the zepplins, a character named cid, and moogles to make it offical

May I ask other than Fenris and his very BFS, how is this like the current-gen Final Fantasy games?  I'll admit that Fenris was pretty Squeenix-like, but he seemed to be the only element that came across that way.  The rest reminded me very little of FF.  I'm not a rookie when it comes to FF games, and I suppose I don't see the comparion.

Also, have you seen the new models for the elves?  They aren't as ridiculously stylized as they were in DA2, so that's a relief.  The greatswords have always been overdone since Origins, so the BFS has been around since the start of the series.

Finally, isn't it a little too early to pass judgement on all of Inquisition? The only gameplay footage we've seen thus far is from a pre-Alpha build.  The flips and tumbles from that demo were said to be abilities, not core parts of the game.  

Modifié par Starsyn, 11 janvier 2014 - 09:29 .

[Laughing_Man]

spinachdiaper wrote...

Bioware has definitely moved Dragon Age out of the typical medieval mold and has slowly started to shift into the stylized garbage that is similar to where Final Fantasy is now.

just waiting for the zepplins, a character named cid, and moogles to make it offical

Wow. Don't you think your'e being abit harsh? Stylized garbage?
Some aspects of DA2 were badly done, but the game as a stand-alone was an okay RPG.

I have no idea what's going on in Final Fantasy, because JRPG usually scare me off with their hair styles, their over-the-top everything, the wangsty\\emo nature of so many of their characters, the exessive use of rule-of-cool, etc.

That said, I don't see how the addition of zepplins, or the change in technological level in themselves are going to transform a good story into a bad one, no need to be so narrow-minded.

[JoltDealer]

JCAP wrote...

Crimson Sound wrote...

No. It's fantasy. It can look however Bioware wants.

True. But change it too much and bad things will happen.

Like what exactly?  You stop liking it?  If they start introducing aliens and things that don't make sense, then yes, I'd call that bad.  However, slightly veering away from the medieval setting that too many fantasy tales revel in?  Maybe some good may come of it.  Anything that stays the same for too long will stagnate.

To me, a fantasy involves magic and mythical creatures.  You could have a fantasy in modern day if you wanted to, but usually writers go for a setting with knights, kingdoms, and dragons because that is where most fairytales take place.  Mind you, these fairytales originated in these time periods, but when we tell them to our children we don't take the time to alter the setting.  Therefore we always think of a medieval-esque setting as a time of magic and wonder.

[Rotward]

Crimson Sound wrote...

Like what exactly?  You stop liking it?  If they start introducing aliens and things that don't make sense, then yes, I'd call that bad.  However, slightly veering away from the medieval setting that too many fantasy tales revel in?  Maybe some good may come of it.  Anything that stays the same for too long will stagnate.

To me, a fantasy involves magic and mythical creatures.  You could have a fantasy in modern day if you wanted to, but usually writers go for a setting with knights, kingdoms, and dragons because that is where most fairytales take place.  Mind you, these fairytales originated in these time periods, but when we tell them to our children we don't take the time to alter the setting.  Therefore we always think of a medieval-esque setting as a time of magic and wonder.

Yes. I hated the art change from da:o to da2, and I'm far from alone. Two games is far from stagnation, especially when they're only released a few years apart.

Medevil theme fantasy games are common, but usually awful. They use the theme to make up for the lack of story, graphics, and gameplay. It was nice to see a good game that still used that theme, DA2 was a disappointing change.

Modifié par Rotward, 11 janvier 2014 - 10:58 .

[Rotward]

In Exile wrote...

That's just wrong. You're hunted exactly once by Zevran, and the Crows straight up throw their support behind you otherwise. Even in Denerim, you have people covering for you, including the captain of the guards. 

The Warden had about as much trouble with people hunting him/her as Mage Hawke did with templars hunting him/her. 

In victory you lose absolutely no one except faceless mooks, unless you as the player choses to have people die. You also, acccording to DA:O itself, have 30+ years to live and are already in your (at least) early 20s, meaning you live around 50 years (which is a totally respectable lifespan). You are remembered as one of the greatest heroes of the Wardens like Garahel, and your actual title is the "Hero of Ferelden" if you live. 

Hmm, I might be misremembering the lifespan. I thought it was till 30, but 30 years after initiation isn't that bad.

Zevran is the first assasin, but Logain sends people after us in denerim. There are also various traps and bountry hunters, such as those in lothering and denerim. There's the group waiting in the frostback mountains, for example. If you recruit zev, you get an additional encounter with the crows. 

Your victory costs you faceless mooks, but you can also lose a companion or two along the way, and various npc's during recruitment. Furhtermore, whether they're faceless or not isn't relevant. You can't personally know everyone in a town, but losing a settlement is still dark. 

Yea, we get to be the big hero at the end, if we live; so does Hawke. 

Modifié par Rotward, 12 janvier 2014 - 01:10 .

[Grieving Natashina]

David Gaider got into the questions about the Calling back in 2012

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

TUK: On that note, you've said that it takes about thirty years more or less between the Joining and the Calling, ish, [DG grimaces audibly and visibly]...sorry! What can accelerate or decelerate that process if anything, or is it something you created that you now regret?

DG: It's something I put in Alistair's dialogue that I now regret! Afterwards I was like, "Wow, thirty years is a long time for that time frame." I didn't really intend when I was writing it, and only afterwards when I went back I said "Oh...I guess it does sort of implies thirty years after you take the Calling, doesn't it..." Sorry, after you take the Joining. That wasn't really my intention. But it's out there now so I'm like, okay, thirty years. But the idea is also that it varies. Thirty years is the maximum that you could probably expect. It's going to vary for an individual according to their willpower and the level of their interaction with the darkspawn. During a Blight you can expect that the Grey Wardens are going to have shorter lifespans. Outside of a Blight the Grey Wardens would tend to live longer. We have instances in the game of people going on their Calling after five or ten years. Alistair's thirty year quote shouldn't be taken as gospel, that's the way I like it.

[bEVEsthda]

spinachdiaper wrote...

Bioware has definitely moved Dragon Age out of the typical medieval mold and has slowly started to shift into the stylized garbage that is similar to where Final Fantasy is now.

just waiting for the zepplins, a character named cid, and moogles to make it offical

Well, I think Bioware has got the message, so it's not going to happen now. Though I would guess some really wanted to do that to DA. I trust it's water under the bridge now though.

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I sometimes find it funny what is classified as medieval in fantasy fiction. I admit Dragon Age is a bit closer than most in getting the "approximation" of a medieval world, but it is far from being medieval at all just in terms of how the socio-political and cultural machinations actually work with each other.

Eh.

Jade Empire was fantasy, in that it was a world that involved realms and people in a magical/extra-normal situation. Yet it wasn't medieval.

That many find fantasy and medieval interchangeable is not a good understanding. To say Dragon Age isn't a historical Koei simulation game, but with magic, somehow disqualifies it from being a medieval game is silly. If the exact same rules of the universe were applied to a South American-esque culture, it would be a South American fantasy RPG. For it to, instead, use classic warriors and wizard settings with magic means it is a medieval-esque RPG.

\\

Jade Emprie has little to do with this, since we are talking about the medieval fantasy fiction that is mostly prevelant in the genre.

And to be clear, I do not classify everything as such. The distinction is painfully obvious since were talking about the specific time period most associate Dragon Age under. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 11 janvier 2014 - 11:34 .

[bEVEsthda]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
It isn't my fault if my definition of a "Medieval Fantasy" is much more geopolitically and socially focused then your definition is, or that my definition holds accuracy to the period as something important to qualify, and yours does not.

Whaddaya mean, not your fault?  Of course it is.
Seriously, it is.

BTW, we're not allowed to use "RPG" exclusively for games that contains role playing either.

[Grieving Natashina]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
It isn't my fault if my definition of a "Medieval Fantasy" is much more geopolitically and socially focused then your definition is, or that my definition holds accuracy to the period as something important to qualify, and yours does not.

Whaddaya mean, not your fault?  Of course it is.
Seriously, it is.

BTW, we're not allowed to use "RPG" exclusively for games that contains role playing either.

I've been in a curious mood today, so forgive the question.  I'm a little confused; could you please elaborate?  I'm not sure what you mean here. 

Modifié par Starsyn, 11 janvier 2014 - 11:44 .

[LinksOcarina]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
It isn't my fault if my definition of a "Medieval Fantasy" is much more geopolitically and socially focused then your definition is, or that my definition holds accuracy to the period as something important to qualify, and yours does not.

Whaddaya mean, not your fault?  Of course it is.
Seriously, it is.

BTW, we're not allowed to use "RPG" exclusively for games that contains role playing either.

You are arguing semantics which bear no true definition. Why?

[Zatche]

Rotward wrote...

Yea, we get to be the big hero at the end, if we live; so does Hawke. 

In DAO, you are universally considered the big hero who saved Ferelden.

In DA2, you are infamous. A hero to some. A menace to others.

DA2 has many flaws, but it's not the typical "hero saves the day" story that DAO is. It's full of tragedy, politics, greed, psychotic blood mages (one who sows your mother's head on to a frankensteinesque body), and more tragedy.

Its story is dark, but the oversaturated color palette can make you forget that.

[bEVEsthda]

Starsyn wrote...
I've been in a curious mood today, so forgive the question.  I'm a little confused; could you please elaborate?  I'm not sure what you mean here. 

Oh, don't worry. It was certainly not directed against you.
More a reflection about that we can't keep labels for us selves, for what we think they should be about.

Just check out how LincsOcarina immediately reacted.

[Grieving Natashina]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Starsyn wrote...
I've been in a curious mood today, so forgive the question.  I'm a little confused; could you please elaborate?  I'm not sure what you mean here. 

Oh, don't worry. It was certainly not directed against you.
More a reflection about that we can't keep labels for us selves, for what we think they should be about.

No worries.  Thanks for the clarification. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to grab a nap.  I hate being sick. 

[LinksOcarina]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Starsyn wrote...
I've been in a curious mood today, so forgive the question.  I'm a little confused; could you please elaborate?  I'm not sure what you mean here. 

Oh, don't worry. It was certainly not directed against you.
More a reflection about that we can't keep labels for us selves, for what we think they should be about.

Just check out how LincsOcarina immediately reacted.

My recation does have a ring of truth to it though. Something I learned the hard way personally. 

[Rotward]

Zatche wrote...

Rotward wrote...

Yea, we get to be the big hero at the end, if we live; so does Hawke. 

In DAO, you are universally considered the big hero who saved Ferelden.

In DA2, you are infamous. A hero to some. A menace to others.

DA2 has many flaws, but it's not the typical "hero saves the day" story that DAO is. It's full of tragedy, politics, greed, psychotic blood mages (one who sows your mother's head on to a frankensteinesque body), and more tragedy.

Its story is dark, but the oversaturated color palette can make you forget that.

Eh, all of that and more was in origins, which was still milder than what I'm used to. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by the plethora of dark fantasy/sci fi available today.

DA:A included an assasination plot, we're not universally a hero, we just don't spend the game with casandra questioning our integrity. As close as kirkwall we found people that didn't even believe there was a blight, let alone a hero of ferelden. 

Modifié par Rotward, 12 janvier 2014 - 01:12 .