175 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Rotward wrote...
Zevran is the first assasin, but Logain sends people after us in denerim. There are also various traps and bountry hunters, such as those in lothering and denerim.

It's not clear Loghain sent those people, and they're faceless garbage. It's like all the trash mobs Hawke mows down while walking through Kirkwall at night. You're such an engine of death in Bioware games that it's kind of silly to treat enemy encounters as threatening, particularly since you make a throne of skulls out of them.

[In Exile]

Rotward wrote...
DA:A included an assasination plot, we're not universally a hero, we just don't spend the game with casandra questioning our integrity. As close as kirkwall we found people that didn't even believe there was a blight, let alone a hero of ferelden. 

DA:A is very different from DA:O in a lot of ways, though. If you save Amaranthine, though, by the end you're a hero. 

[KymeraX]

What I like about Dragon Age that is mature and really gore. You can see heads flying around and other body parts with pool of blood, that makes me feel like this world is real and those character die for sure. I hope that BioW doesn't take that away form Inquisition because this is one of the things that make DA a DA.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yes...

If you want medieval, play Skyrim. It is more medieval than Dragon Age is.

That said, it is not a bad thing.

From my observations and playing both DA games, I would say DA is evolving into a fantasy world with a touch of medieval.

So yes, it is not purely medieval anymore like it was in Origins but that is not a bad thing.

[JoltDealer]

Rotward wrote...

Crimson Sound wrote...

Like what exactly?  You stop liking it?  If they start introducing aliens and things that don't make sense, then yes, I'd call that bad.  However, slightly veering away from the medieval setting that too many fantasy tales revel in?  Maybe some good may come of it.  Anything that stays the same for too long will stagnate.

To me, a fantasy involves magic and mythical creatures.  You could have a fantasy in modern day if you wanted to, but usually writers go for a setting with knights, kingdoms, and dragons because that is where most fairytales take place.  Mind you, these fairytales originated in these time periods, but when we tell them to our children we don't take the time to alter the setting.  Therefore we always think of a medieval-esque setting as a time of magic and wonder.

Yes. I hated the art change from da:o to da2, and I'm far from alone. Two games is far from stagnation, especially when they're only released a few years apart.

Medevil theme fantasy games are common, but usually awful. They use the theme to make up for the lack of story, graphics, and gameplay. It was nice to see a good game that still used that theme, DA2 was a disappointing change.

Well I'm right there with you on the art direction.  I disliked the change.  Dragon Age II was a mess and I think we all know it.  However, I was referring to the fantasy genre as a whole, not the Dragon Age series.  

As for Dragon Age Inquisition, it looks like a better change.

[slimgrin]

Problem with DA is it looks so generic now it I'm not sure if I'm looking at a JRPG, a popular hack and' slash action game or Dark Siders.

[bEVEsthda]

slimgrin wrote...

Problem with DA is it looks so generic now it I'm not sure if I'm looking at a JRPG, a popular hack and' slash action game or Dark Siders.

Well, we'll see. You exaggerate somewhat. It's not that bad. Maybe DA:I can carve out an identity for itself.
But you have a point. It's ironic that the changes towards the - what I would call - *contemporary fantasy taste", were argued for by a desire to make DA look "unique". And then it accomplishes the exact opposite.
DA:O looks were unique. DA totally owned it.
I guess that's just how fashion works.

[Ieldra]

I prefer my fantasy worlds to have their own identity. Thedas is, as a rule, far too derivative for me and has been that from the start, but it was intentionally designed that way. They wanted "classic fantasy elements with a new spin on them", and that's how it comes across, and in the end - at the point where we are now - the world manages to have an identity of its own.

The SF writer David Brin used to say that fantasy tends to be reactionary, because much of it euphemizes feudal society. DAO is something of an example with its plot of "defeat the evil usurper and put the rightful ruler on the throne and everything will be ok", though it did well with presenting the political maneuvers otherwise. I would like things to be less medieval (or rather, less faux-medieval) than that, and I prefer the matter-of-factly presentation of politics in DA2 (I dislike the JRPG-like presentation of combat elements but that's a different aspect).

The so-called "medieval touch" is a presentation style which combines political, cultural, religious and technological elements in a specific way. This was to some degree present in DAO: undisputed rule of the feudal society, an undisputedly dominant religion, a level of weapons technology which leaves heavy metal armor to be useful, and a few more. I see "medieval fantasy" as a somewhat restrictive paradigm and prefer a setting more reminiscent of the early modern period of European history, plus magical elements of course. DA2 took itself somewhat into that direction and DAI will apparently continue, and I appreciate that a great deal, because this is a setting with more varied ideas, where philosophies can come into conflict, where - see the qunari - technology and magic may come into conflict, where things are very much in flux rather than stable and where the solution to the problems doesn't lie in restoring the old order.

To sum it up: where DA had been "medieval", I appreciate its "losing its touch". Almost everywhere where Thedas has managed to create its own identity, it has done so by changing away from the medieval paradigm.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 janvier 2014 - 11:00 .

[JuGonzo]

Any information we have about medieval times is, with luck, inaccurate.

For example, we belive the 'dark age' was a time where the church destroyed all the scientific knowledge. But now we know the church had some people who ap proved the science.

And despite everything, there were Fathers who had childrens, were gays and even atheist! And everybody knew ( Pope Julius II and Alexander VI ) and NOBODY cared because there were a lot of political issues in game.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Frankly I prefer DA:O's feel to DA2.

I don't give a crap about a "distinct visual style", since being different for the sake ofbeing different is the height of shallowness.


What I don't miss from DA:O is oversized hands and gioganormous pauldrons. But I don't like DA2's weapons and comabt and overall visuals.

[Toasted Llama]

Am I the only one around here that enjoys DA but also enjoys hack and slashes and JRPGs and doesn't really give two ****s if they become too hack 'n slashy, JRPG or too fantasy-esque?

[Neon Rising Winter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I prefer my fantasy worlds to have their own identity. Thedas is, as a rule, far too derivative for me and has been that from the start, but it was intentionally designed that way. They wanted "classic fantasy elements with a new spin on them", and that's how it comes across, and in the end - at the point where we are now - the world manages to have an identity of its own.

The SF writer David Brin used to say that fantasy tends to be reactionary, because much of it euphemizes feudal society. DAO is something of an example with its plot of "defeat the evil usurper and put the rightful ruler on the throne and everything will be ok", though it did well with presenting the political maneuvers otherwise. I would like things to be less medieval (or rather, less faux-medieval) than that, and I prefer the matter-of-factly presentation of politics in DA2 (I dislike the JRPG-like presentation of combat elements but that's a different aspect).

The so-called "medieval touch" is a presentation style which combines political, cultural, religious and technological elements in a specific way. This was to some degree present in DAO: undisputed rule of the feudal society, an undisputedly dominant religion, a level of weapons technology which leaves heavy metal armor to be useful, and a few more. I see "medieval fantasy" as a somewhat restrictive paradigm and prefer a setting more reminiscent of the early modern period of European history, plus magical elements of course. DA2 took itself somewhat into that direction and DAI will apparently continue, and I appreciate that a great deal, because this is a setting with more varied ideas, where philosophies can come into conflict, where - see the qunari - technology and magic may come into conflict, where things are very much in flux rather than stable and where the solution to the problems doesn't lie in restoring the old order.

To sum it up: where DA had been "medieval", I appreciate its "losing its touch". Almost everywhere where Thedas has managed to create its own identity, it has done so by changing away from the medieval paradigm.

I'm interested in what you say here because personally I find Dragon Age, overall, has a more early modern than medieval feel to it. Or perhaps more that it is at a point of transition between the two.

I think Origins is a little deceptive by virtue of being set in Ferelden, which is presented as your basic, no frills, primarily agricultural feudal system. I'd forgotten Brin's comments on that rather ubiquitous fantasy plot, but DA:O fits a lot of the profile there, at least at face value.

But even then, the background material on other human nations gave them a much later feel, and then DA2 came along to expand on that. The impression I have is of places that are more urbanised, where there's a more extensive population of nobles and wealthy tradesmen/artisans driving cultural and technological progress. That these are societies that are changing and developing rather than some eternal fantasyland.

If anything rather than losing its medieval touch I think the series is growing into its game world.

[Siven80]

If a heavy armoured person can dodge roll.....then yes its lost its medieval touch.

[DRTJR]

It's hard to loose something you've never had.

[Kidd]

Toasted Llama wrote...

Am I the only one around here that enjoys DA but also enjoys hack and slashes and JRPGs and doesn't really give two ****s if they become too hack 'n slashy, JRPG or too fantasy-esque?

Feels strange to be in the BSN minority who enjoy games outside of a single genre, doesn't it? Don't worry. You have me. =)

[The Elder King]

Siven80 wrote...

If a heavy armoured person can dodge roll.....then yes its lost its medieval touch.

I didn't know in Middle Age people were able to knock enemies down with a shout. Or stunning multiple people with an arrow, or a song. Or resisting getting munched or smashed.

[Cimeas]

The Witcher is my more 'realistic' medieval fix, with all the sexism, rape, etc.. that goes on.

Dragon Age is far more traditional fantasy, very LOOSELY based on medieval europe.

[Deadmac]

'Dragon Age' is a medieval dark-fantasy franchise. Swords, armor, shields, castles, dragons, mages, and werewolves come directly from dark age lure. All of it.

[Medhia Nox]

What medieval are we talking about?

- Post-Rome medieval (typically called "The Dark Ages" - but that is a misnomer)? The Merovingian and Carolingian lines of succession? Early development of feudal societies - kings with no real power - constantly warring faction and absolutely no national identity (national identity doesn't come around till after the Renaissance)?

- Middle ages? The widespread conversion of pagans to Christianity? The reconquista of Spain from the Muslims? Absolutely NO plate mail. Elective monarchies? Crusades?

- Late middle ages? Inquisitions? Absolute power of a dominant religion? Divine Right of Kings? The discovery of a New World? Printing?

And - of course, those classifications don't hold up for all parts of medieval Europe. When people talk - they really should say - France, Spain and England. Because they most certainly don't mean eastern Europe (which includes Russia) which was quite different.

So we're probably trying to imitate the Late Middle Ages - but still, it's more of an "inspired by".

And I find even what little we know of Tevinter to be a ****** poor facsimile to the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).

Dragon Age - is fantasy, set in a fantasy setting.

[CybAnt1]

I would say what separates fantasy from medieval sims is that in fantasy games, the writers simply assume that everything people believed in back then actually existed, like elves, or dragons, or magic, or alchemy.

There are games that are based around simulating highly realistic medieval combat, even reproducing medieval politics and society, that stick to the grim reality of medieval life. DA series isn't those, it's dark-fantasy, quite correct.

[CybAnt1]

I do find it interesting the extent to which they are creating a kind of distorted-mirror twisting of actual history in this fantasy world.

If the Chantry is the Catholic Church and Tevinter the Roman Empire, then Andraste is obviously the female version of -- well, you know. The X guy in Xmas. Her husband was her Judas, and she died for the Magisters/Tevinter's sins, etc. Yet because she was a woman, we now have a religious organization completely directed by women. It's the kind of funny inversion you can do in a fantasy world.

[Bfler]

DA is based upon the behavior of people in the 20/21 century, e.g. emancipation. People in medieval age had a different way of thinking and, excuse me, it's made by non-European people, who e.g. never saw a castle in real life. 
So how can you expect that DA reflects the real medieval Europe.

Modifié par Bfler, 12 janvier 2014 - 03:02 .

[NUM13ER]

I think some people often forget the fantasy aspect of the medieval setting. Whilst Dragon Age has been inspired by real life events and settings, it is not bound by them.

Hence the fantasy aspects of mages, demons, larger than life locations and yes impractical but beautiful armour/weapons.

Complaining that it isn't some dark, deary snapshot of a real-life brutal time period is missing the point.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 12 janvier 2014 - 03:15 .

[Ieldra]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I prefer my fantasy worlds to have their own identity. Thedas is, as a rule, far too derivative for me and has been that from the start, but it was intentionally designed that way. They wanted "classic fantasy elements with a new spin on them", and that's how it comes across, and in the end - at the point where we are now - the world manages to have an identity of its own.

The SF writer David Brin used to say that fantasy tends to be reactionary, because much of it euphemizes feudal society. DAO is something of an example with its plot of "defeat the evil usurper and put the rightful ruler on the throne and everything will be ok", though it did well with presenting the political maneuvers otherwise. I would like things to be less medieval (or rather, less faux-medieval) than that, and I prefer the matter-of-factly presentation of politics in DA2 (I dislike the JRPG-like presentation of combat elements but that's a different aspect).

The so-called "medieval touch" is a presentation style which combines political, cultural, religious and technological elements in a specific way. This was to some degree present in DAO: undisputed rule of the feudal society, an undisputedly dominant religion, a level of weapons technology which leaves heavy metal armor to be useful, and a few more. I see "medieval fantasy" as a somewhat restrictive paradigm and prefer a setting more reminiscent of the early modern period of European history, plus magical elements of course. DA2 took itself somewhat into that direction and DAI will apparently continue, and I appreciate that a great deal, because this is a setting with more varied ideas, where philosophies can come into conflict, where - see the qunari - technology and magic may come into conflict, where things are very much in flux rather than stable and where the solution to the problems doesn't lie in restoring the old order.

To sum it up: where DA had been "medieval", I appreciate its "losing its touch". Almost everywhere where Thedas has managed to create its own identity, it has done so by changing away from the medieval paradigm.

I'm interested in what you say here because personally I find Dragon Age, overall, has a more early modern than medieval feel to it. Or perhaps more that it is at a point of transition between the two.

I think Origins is a little deceptive by virtue of being set in Ferelden, which is presented as your basic, no frills, primarily agricultural feudal system. I'd forgotten Brin's comments on that rather ubiquitous fantasy plot, but DA:O fits a lot of the profile there, at least at face value.

But even then, the background material on other human nations gave them a much later feel, and then DA2 came along to expand on that. The impression I have is of places that are more urbanised, where there's a more extensive population of nobles and wealthy tradesmen/artisans driving cultural and technological progress. That these are societies that are changing and developing rather than some eternal fantasyland.

If anything rather than losing its medieval touch I think the series is growing into its game world.

Well, I did say that the world as presented by post-DAO material - both DA2 and the WoT book - starts to appear less medieval. If that's how it was meant to be from the start, that's good, but I don't know that since I can't look into the minds of the DA world designers. Whatever the reason, both DA2 and the DAI material published so far leave more of a 17th century impression rather than a 13th century, and I like it.   

[L. Han]

It also could be that BioWare and it's artists envisioned something else, but due to engine limitations and skills they had to compromise. But now with the new engine and some new talent they are able to flesh out things even futher - closer to what they had in mind.

Modifié par Rickets, 12 janvier 2014 - 03:25 .