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[Tron Mega]

EntropicAngel wrote...

 Or how about this one:

Drew expounds on Dark Energy, then says:

"Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction."

The fact is, Dark Energy A) isn't some magical plot that was better than what we got, and was not very "fleshed out," in Drew's own words.

im pretty convinced that anything would have been better. dark energy, conventional victory, maybe the same damn ending but show our damn war assets you idiots. i mean quite literally, bioware picked the absolute worste possible way to end the series. good thing i did a bunch of stuff throughout the series, doesnt matter what that stuff was just as long as i did enough of it, and played multiplayer too dont forget cuz that should matter what im doing in my single player camplaign.

yuck, wasnt there a time when people played biwoare games for their stories? im gonna miss that.

[mopotter]

 What I find interesting, and apparently many don't, is the fact that people cared so much about their Shepard and the others that we are still talking about it.  To me that says a lot about BioWares ability to write great characters and an interesting story.  And they are one of the few developers that let me choose whether to be male or female, a very important option when I purchase a game.
I played all 3 games on the 360 and I played ME1 and 2 continuously from the day ME1 came out.  That's a lot of saved games and I did make many choices in both games, because I could.  

I chose the order I went to planets, One of my favorit things was how Liara reacted depending on when you went to pick her up.   I chose to save or leave the council.  I chose who lived on Virmire and occasionaly my LI died. 

In ME2 I made other choices.  Save the crew immediately or finish other missions, wake up Legion or don't.   In the final mission send Tali or Legion; Have Garris or Zaeed take the other team, save the people in the burning building or not,  Keep the facility or destroy it.   I even had the option of dieing.

I'm one of the people who didn't play ME3 more than 4 times.   I would have liked the nuteral response back and I would have liked less auto dialogue, but I would still be playing on the 360 if there had been one ending (just one, not every ending, just one) where you were 100% positive that Shepard survived.  And it would have been so ease to do.  I didn't need to see Shepard, just hear over the loud speeker that Shepard had been found. Or with the EC show a picture of Shepard in a hospital.   That top ems number with a charred body, no.  

I wish they had done 3 separate games without carrying over Shepard.  ME3's endings would have been ok, not great but ok, if I hadn't put in so many hours, so many years with Shepard.

 I didn't hate the other endings, I even had one Shepard who picked Synthesis, though I don't trust that ending.   And I still don't know why Shepard would trust the catalyst enough to do control but I never had a problem with the option being there.  I like options, even ones I'm not interested in choosing right away.  After playine 3 or 4 years I would have picked all them at one time or another.  

When I heard about the MEHEM I waited till the series was on sale for the PC and purchased them.  I'm actually sad that I've lost some ending options, but this will give me two.  Die or survie.  This is better to me than a charred body, so I have started playing the game series I fell in love with all those years ago. I just wish BioWare had followed through on their history of ending choices that include the survival heroic one.

I don't really care if some people think that it is "whinning"  to complain about something you feel is wrong.  I disagree.   What ME3 did was destroy the trust I had built up from playing KOTOR, JE, ME1 & 2, DAO and DA2 BG  and now I won't be pre-ordering future games.  I'll wait and see what they have done.  

DA:I looks good.  ME4 what I've heard, which is not much, sounds like it could be interesting, but I'll wait.  Unless  DG or CP wants to e-maile me privately and tell me I never have to worry again about having one option where my beloved character will survive and live their life in video space with their LI  if I have one, once the game is over, I'll wait until someone I trust, not a reviewer, tells me i won't want to run into a tree after playing it. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You really can't take much of an objective look at the ending thematically. You can really only get an objective look out of what happens, and what is or is not possible within the lore or is possible with the previous narrative. It's very subjective.

[Rusty Sandusky]

 ITT:

[Iakus]

The lesson being taught here by responders is:

If you don't like the ending, you are clearly not an objective person, so your opinion is irrelevant, wrong, and stupid.

Heck, Bioware taught me that almost two years ago

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

The lesson being taught here by responders is:

If you don't like the ending, you are clearly not an objective person, so your opinion is irrelevant, wrong, and stupid.

I think the "lesson" being taught here is actually: stop claiming that your negative outlook is objective truth. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

 ITT:

Which episode was this from again?

[Iakus]

And here I thought the lesson was people can and do have good reasons for disliking the ending that go beyond "Derp, i dun geddit" or "i canhaz waifu?" despite how they may be portrayed both by ending defenders and by Bioware itself.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

And here I thought the lesson was people can and do have good reasons for disliking the ending that go beyond "Derp, i dun geddit" or "i canhaz waifu?" despite how they may be portrayed both by ending defenders and by Bioware itself.

Sure, as do many people with contrary opinions on pieces of popular fiction.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:06 .

[Br3admax]

I thought the lesson was, if you disagree with people who don't like the ending on anything, including on what the definition of objective is, especially sense we think it's this, you do like the ending. That's what I'm reading here, anyway.

[dreamgazer]

Br3ad wrote...

I thought the lesson was, if you disagree with people who don't like the ending on anything, including on what the definition of objective is, especially sense we think it's this, you do like the ending. That's what I'm reading here, anyway.

Let's face it: there's no lesson here.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

And here I thought the lesson was people can and do have good reasons for disliking the ending that go beyond "Derp, i dun geddit" or "i canhaz waifu?" despite how they may be portrayed both by ending defenders and by Bioware itself.

I thought the lesson was don't post a bunch of random feelings and think you're expressing anything other than random feelings.

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

The lesson being taught here by responders is:

If you don't like the ending, you are clearly not an objective person, so your opinion is irrelevant, wrong, and stupid.

Heck, Bioware taught me that almost two years ago

Not exacty. No one told him that he was wrong. The only thing he should take away from this as a conclusion is that no opinion is objective, and the thing he deems "objective" is actually very subjective since it reflects his opinion, thoughts and feelings concerning the subject in question.

...and iakus, there's no such thing as an "objective person". People are subjective. Just saying. No offence. 

People have a tendency to believe or wish that their opinions were objective and absolute, while it is simply not true.

I still don't understand why people take other people's disagereement personal. Someone liking something you do not and vice versa is such a natural and everyday thing. I don't get why people try to convince the others that their opposing opinions are "wrong". 

You are not wrong iakus. You have all the right to dislke the ending for your very own reasons. To you it is a bad ending and probably nobody's opinion would change that.

I am not wrong either and I have all the right to like the ending for my own reasons. To me it is a good ending and only I can change my mind about it for my own reasons, but no amount of preaching, flaming and listing of "points" from others could do that.

Not a big deal really. We should have got over this thing long ago.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:35 .

[Invisible Man]

I was going to post something, but for some reason I keep coming back to southpark's dead horse.

I've stated my feelings towards the ending/s elsewhere on these forums. I don't feel the need to rehash.


---edit
@ Gimmedagun

we seem to forget that our thoughts are unique, and like to think that everyone thinks like we do.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:39 .

[AlanC9]

Reorte wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

You're muddling up choice and cinematics here. Seeing the Volus bombing fleet doesn't imply any actual different effects of the war asset, or any choices. Your argument's about choice, so don't talk about pictures.

Seeing the volus bombing fleet bombing in one playthrough but getting wiped out because it doesn't have any cover in another would though, even if in both cases you've still got enough not to affect the final decision.

Are you saying that providing the illusion is enough? It would feel different even if everything played out the same?

That's not a crazy position -- it's essentially the same argument as saying that the final DA:O battle is superior to ME3's.

[Invisible Man]

AlanC9 wrote...

Are you saying that providing the illusion is enough? It would feel different even if everything played out the same?

That's not a crazy position -- it's essentially the same argument as saying that the final DA:O battle is superior to ME3's.

IMHO, I did think DA:O's final battle was better than me3's, or at least the ending sequence in me3. fighting wave after wave of banshees & brutes with the destroyer trying to fry you with the reaper beam was quite intense, I have to admit.

[AlanC9]

The OP's doing quite a bit better in later posts. (And you people thought BSN arguments were worthless.)

Roux72 wrote...
In Mass Effect 2, based on decisions you made in regards to whether or not spending time doing loyalty missions, and making sure to buy upgrades for your ship, as well, as well as correctly deploying your squad in the final suicide mission has a direct impact on who lives and dies.

That's true. The ME3 design implements consequences immediately rather than implementing them later. For instance, if you get the VS or Tali killed, they die right away rather than die in the endgame. This does make for a less-complicated final mission.

I don't even know what happened... I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. The endings are meaningless because they reverse everything you've done. Maybe the Krogan genophage was cured, maybe it wasn't. Irrelevent now, since no one will be able to come or go to Tuchanka.

Irrelevant to who? Not the krogan, surely.

Starchild comes out of no where in the last ten minutes and tells us he's the antagonist. Excuse me? What? Twists are cool. When you execute them right. But writing in a new god-like being to snap his fingers and change the world. If you can use artistic integrity to defend that, that I can use it to defend running around the house drawing penises on the walls with crayon.

The Catalyst isn't really godlike. He's got no power except for what the Reapers give him. If anything, Shepard's the godlike one in the endgame. Crucible-granted power to reshape the universe. Which doesn't mean that this isn't a problem, but it's not the same problem as the one you describe.

But in doing so you've ruined galactic civilization. Relays destroyed. Earth destroyed (it was in proximity to a relay correct?). You've damned everyone and everything you were supposed to be fighting the reapers for. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. I think a more sound way to go  would have been to have with enough ems, you can just about overcome the reapers with albeit the sacrificing uncounctable numbers of lives and ships... But not damning the galaxy.

... Because at this point all our efforts become meaningless.

You still believe in nova theory? Think it through. Miranda, Jacob, Jack, etc. are clearly alive after the ending. Actually, believing in novas never made sense. We could always see that the Citadel Relay didn't go nova; the explosion doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. The jungle planet isn't destroyed either. So we've got two relays that aren't destroyed, but all of the others are supposed to have gone nova?

Relays destroyed, though ? Sure. Length of time for repairs TBD. I'm personally hoping for centuries. I think the MEU become more interesting with blown relays and standard FTL, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me on this.

But I don't see how the galaxy is damned.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 janvier 2014 - 05:58 .

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Not exacty. No one told him that he was wrong. The only thing he should take away from this as a conclusion is that no opinion is objective, and the thing he deems "objective" is actually very subjective since it reflects his opinion, thoughts and feelings concerning the subject in question.

The rather derisive posts and dead horse gifs speak volumes.

...and iakus, there's no such thing as an "objective person". People are subjective. Just saying. No offence.

True, but being subjective in teh wrong way seems to automatically disqualify certain perspectives

I still don't understand why people take other people's disagereement personal. Someone liking something you do not and vice versa is such a natural and everyday thing. I don't get why people try to convince the others that their opposing opinions are "wrong". 

You are not wrong iakus. You have all the right to dislke the ending for your very own reasons. To you it is a bad ending and probably nobody's opinion would change that.

You probably can't.  And liking the endings we got is not wrong.  What is wrong was not providing a wider range of endings that more pople could enjoy. (well such an incoherent storyline probably isn't considered a "good thing" either)  

Which is strange, since teh War Assets and EMS system seem designed for such things.

I am not wrong either and I have all the right to like the ending for my own reasons. To me it is a good ending and only I can change my mind about it for my own reasons, but no amount of preaching, flaming and listing of "points" from others could do that.

As I said, if you like the endings, fine.  Bioware has not failed you.  But Bioware has failed a lot of other people for no good reason that I can see.  And was and continues to be rather dismissive about the whole thing, which only adds to the anger.  

After Dragon Age 2, people from the team eventually came out and asked "Where do you think we went wrong?" And actually tried to connect with the fans.  Rather than just assume people are too "confused"  By the "art".

You may now do a shot, dreamgazer 

Not a big deal really. We should have got over this thing long ago.

It's going to continue until we know where Mass Effect is going.  Until we know if those who wish to can simply ignore the endings and start fresh with the next game.

[dreamgazer]

[spirosz]

The Mods really need to start a new thread where people can still complain about the endings. All these long posts, yet you will still get the new game!

Modifié par spirosz, 11 janvier 2014 - 06:27 .

[Invisible Man]

spirosz wrote...

The Mods really need to start a new thread where people can still complain about the endings. All these long posts, yet you will still get the new game!

I probably will, though I've never clamed me3 to be a bad game, just the ending. (though the me3 ending was almost bad enough to spoil the game, to me)

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

It's going to continue until we know where Mass Effect is going.  Until we know if those who wish to can simply ignore the endings and start fresh with the next game.

You think it won't go on past that?

[Invisible Man]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Tron Mega wrote...

im pretty convinced that anything would have been better. dark energy, conventional victory, maybe the same damn ending but show our damn war assets you idiots. i mean quite literally, bioware picked the absolute worste possible way to end the series. good thing i did a bunch of stuff throughout the series, doesnt matter what that stuff was just as long as i did enough of it, and played multiplayer too dont forget cuz that should matter what im doing in my single player camplaign.

yuck, wasnt there a time when people played biwoare games for their stories? im gonna miss that.

Outside of the multiplayer thing, nothing in ME3's ending tread new ground. Seemingly out-of-nowhere final "boss?" ME2's Terminator Baby. Endings that don't take into account how you played the game? ME1, and ME2 except for the extremely, extremely low possibility  that you lost ELEVEN (or 9 without DLC) crew members in the SM and thus Shepard dies--outside of that the "choices" you've made in the game have no impact on it.


And about Bioware games and stories--this is a fun one. Because like it or not (and obviously, many did not), ME3's ending was an attempt--allow me to say that five more times before people say "it failed!" (it doesn't matter if it "failed" or not)

Attempt
Attempt
Attempt
Attempt
Attempt

--at a more highbrow story that "RARWEKILLORGANICSBECUZWEEVULANDINNEFFABLE" that ME1 and ME2 were plugging. ME3 was an attempt at a more nuanced view of the Reapers.

THAT is not subjective. THAT is fact. Whether it was successful or not is subjective--but Bioware's portrayal of Reapers in ME3, and especially the ending, was indisputably, indisputably, intended to be more nuanced than ME1 or ME2.

i'm not disagreeing there, and that's one reason I go fairly easy one the endings; there's also the fact they changed out lead creative writers too. I just think they could have put more effort into the ending.